5904 questions...!

beuford · Oct 7, 2012

I am hoping one of the 3rd gen experts out there can help me decide whether or not my recently-acquired 5904 needs a trip to S&W.

On the 5904 I have recently purchased, the slide-mounted safety does not drop the hammer. I have read that a worn sear release lever can cause this condition. However, I think that the pistol may have been built this way intentionally. I think that because the pistol has a "half-cock" position on the hammer, which 3rd gens don't typically have.

The pistol works fine in all other respects (disconnect on slide cycle, reset, SA and DA all work correctly) and seems to have all the appropriate parts. In addition, when the safety is engaged the trigger travel is limited and prevents the trigger from dropping the hammer. This all appears to work correctly, given the configuration.

The pistol is in excellent condition with very little wear (although it was dirty when it was found). It seems to be an early pistol, sporting the old-style grip (without the dimple in the base) and an AIP-prefixed serial number.

So my question are:

1) Has anyone ever witnessed a 3rd gen with a non-hammer-drop safety and a half-cock on the hammer?

2) What parts would be worn or incorrect to cause these two condition simultaneously?

Here are links to some pictures that may help:

Inside view showing the trigger area:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2j5dfrp.jpg

View of the sear release from the rear near the hammer. 1st picture is with the safety off, 2nd with the safety on. Note that the release appears to move correctly:
http://i46.tinypic.com/20roe3t.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/244boyr.jpg

Hammer when down, at half cock, and at full cock:
http://i45.tinypic.com/ab6m1h.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/iylq8p.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2l9pcl.jpg

And, of course, left and right views:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2md299x.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/333cy10.jpg

Any help would be appreciated!!

Beuford

grif684 · Oct 7, 2012

I can't answer your questions specifically, but I believe the half cock was one of the features that was transitioned out after the introduction of the third gens. As far as the decocker, I believe that it should drop the hammer from the fully cocked, as well as half cocked positions, there was a recall for some second gen models for this. Try and send a pm to member snw19 357, he is very knowledgeable about the AIP and other transitional guns, and I beleive he even has a 5904 with the AIP prefix, he has been a great help to me....

BLUEBELLYYANKEE · Oct 7, 2012

I have seen this problem a few times before.

First, your grip is not installed correctly. Grab the gun in your firing and and with the other hand drive the gun back into the web of your firing hand. A good stiff push will force the grip forward toward the muzzle about a 1/16 of a inch and it will snap into position with a good sounding clunk. The back of the plastic grip should be almost perfectly flush with the beaver-tail above the grip.

If that does not fix your problem, then It could be your safety bar that transverses the slide is worn or the sear release lever is worn or out of spec or the internal workings inside the frame are very dirty and will not allow the sear release lever to act upon the sear to drop the hammer.

Try holding the gun with the hammer fully cocked and press downward on the slide of the gun with great force. You want to press down in the area of the rear sight which is where the sear release lever is. If squeezing downward on the slide drops the hammer then you will need to disassemble the gun completely and thoroughly clean it. If that does not fix the problem then the sear release lever is most likely the culprit.

Hope this helps.

beuford · Oct 7, 2012

5904 questions...

BLUEBELLYYANKEE said:
I have seen this problem a few times before.

First, your grip is not installed correctly. Grab the gun in your firing and and with the other hand drive the gun back into the web of your firing hand. A good stiff push will force the grip forward toward the muzzle about a 1/16 of a inch and it will snap into position with a good sounding clunk. The back of the plastic grip should be almost perfectly flush with the beaver-tail above the grip.

If that does not fix your problem, then It could be your safety bar that transverses the slide is worn or the sear release lever is worn or out of spec or the internal workings inside the frame are very dirty and will not allow the sear release lever to act upon the sear to drop the hammer.

Try holding the gun with the hammer fully cocked and press downward on the slide of the gun with great force. You want to press down in the area of the rear sight which is where the sear release lever is. If squeezing downward on the slide drops the hammer then you will need to disassemble the gun completely and thoroughly clean it. If that does not fix the problem then the sear release lever is most likely the culprit.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for your assistance.

The gun has little wear; it looks to have been shot very little. The safety seems to work like my other 3rd gens (except for the lack of hammer fall), and the safety lever appears to push down properly and completely on the sear release. The safety and top of the sear release show little if any wear.

If I remove the slide, I can press down directly on the sear release but the hammer will still not fall. There is no resistance on the sear release when this is done; the sear release goes all the way to the frame without much effort. On my other 3rd gens there is resistance about half-way when the sear release contacts the sear.

I have a spare sear release; if I have time later I'll pull the old one and compare the two.

Also, I've found that the half-cock hammer was installed on some early units; here's the except from the manual (this 5904 came with the box and all papers) stating this fact:

Thanks again,

Steve

mbliss57 · Oct 7, 2012

Since your questions seem to have been answered.. I thought I would just add that the AIP prefix is a transition from 2nd to 3rd gen pistols and are NOT desirable. Therefore I will the make the kind jester of trading you my 95% condition 5906 (no rust or finish problems) for that wretched piece of iron. I just hope you can one day return the favor.

mbliss57 · Oct 7, 2012

BTW snw19 357 was a big help to me when I was looking at an RSR and an AIP to buy. You might want to PM or contact him directly.
Mike

beuford · Oct 7, 2012

mbliss57 said:
Since your questions seem to have been answered.. I thought I would just add that the AIP prefix is a transition from 2nd to 3rd gen pistols and are NOT desirable. Therefore I will the make the kind jester of trading you my 95% condition 5906 (no rust or finish problems) for that wretched piece of iron. I just hope you can one day return the favor.

I'm taking this as a good sign (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic). I kind of hoped that the piece was unique, since I'd never seen an AIP prefix before. Since I bought it I've seen one example in the SCoSW 3rd edition (their picture of a 5906 has the same prefix, and also the same thicker trigger).

mbliss57 said:
BTW snw19 357 was a big help to me when I was looking at an RSR and an AIP to buy. You might want to PM or contact him directly.
Mike

I sent him an email - awaiting a response.

Thank you for your help.

Beuford

mbliss57 · Oct 7, 2012

Yes I was being socratic I mean sarcastic...Good luck

I have a 5904 too. I like the black finished 3rd gens better. They just don't wear as well but look so nice!

snw19_357 · Oct 8, 2012

beuford said:
1) Has anyone ever witnessed a 3rd gen with a non-hammer-Drop safety and a half-cock on the hammer?

Manual safety that does not drop the hammer, no, not on a 3rd gen. (Model 52's didn't drop the hammer)

Hammer that has a half-cock notch, yes. ...but it was done intentionally.

(photo edited for a 'what is it thread'. the model number and serial number have not been removed.)

beuford said:
2) What parts would be worn or incorrect to cause these two condition simultaneously?

Like you mention in the OP and the others have too, the sear release lever is about the only thing that could make it act that way.

Sweet AIP!!

beuford · Oct 9, 2012

5904 questions

I spoke with Jeff Whitehouse at S&W today regarding the 5904 I purchased (nice guy, very helpful). He said the pistol shipped in 1988, and had never been serviced at S&W since it left. He was not able to tell me anything about its original factory configuration, however.

Jeff confirmed that the pistol was part of the Automatic Improvement Program, which he said was the period during which S&W was developing and integrating changes to the 3rd gen pistols. The AIP program ran between 1988 and 1991.

He also said that adjustable night sights were an option on these pistols, as was a "locked and cocked" safety option (that did not drop the hammer). However, he was unable to confirm whether or not the pistol shipped with these options.

I'm going to pull the sear release later and see if it looks like a factory part.

I'm pretty excited about this find...!

Beuford

5904 questions...!

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