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  #51  
Old 11-11-2013, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALREB View Post
...I didn't know they had a PC model, have to start looking for one now, instead of finding a 356 and getting a 9mm barrel fitted. Probably about the same cost these days...
I know several people who shoot standard 9mm ammo in their 356TSW's, both the 5" Limited and the short barrel Compact.

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  #52  
Old 11-11-2013, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by roymack View Post
Check out GB. There is one currently for sale.
Added picture of MSF6936 to original post, pistol is currently up for auction on GB.
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  #53  
Old 11-11-2013, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
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Added picture of MSF6936 to original post, pistol is currently up for auction on GB.
You should buy that one, and sell me the other one that I left for you at the WAC show
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  #54  
Old 11-19-2013, 06:10 PM
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Hello from Iowa. I just purchased the Number MSF6936 pistol off of GunBroker. I have not received it yet, probably the first of next week.

Just curious what everyone's opinion of these pistols are.

Last edited by BEEMER1; 11-19-2013 at 06:20 PM.
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  #55  
Old 11-19-2013, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEMER1 View Post
Hello from Iowa. I just purchased the Number MSF6936 pistol off of GunBroker. I have not received it yet, probably the first of next week.

Just curious what everyone's opinion of these pistols are.
I might be biased, but the Super 9 is an excellent pistol. The raised rail pads give it a much slicker action than a traditional 5906, the longer sight radius helps to improve accuracy, the longer barrel can give greater bullet velocities, the adjustable trigger allows for a customized pull (I haven't messed with mine), and your particular version comes with three barrels allowing for some interesting load options.

I did notice that MSF6936 had an enlarged magazine release, most pictures I've come across have the standard size.

Congrats on your purchase. If you can get a better picture than the one I have posted, I will update the photo.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:57 PM
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I have to be honest, all I know about the pistol is what i have picked up from this thread. I think this is where the seller must have gotten his information also.

In your opinion, is this an exported gun or was it just that Smith could not sell them all overseas and released them on the US market? Is there a way to find out when and where it was shipped without buying the letter?

Your work helped me make up my mind to purchase it.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:24 PM
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The only way to be certain of where the pistol was shipped would be with a Roy Jinks letter. His letter would also provide an answer on how may MSF versions were made, right now we have empirical evidence it is somewhere between 250 and 655, but nothing concrete.

However, it is probably safe to say that your pistol would be one of the few 3-barreled versions that remained in the states rather than being exported. If it was exported, it would have to be imported back into the states, which typically requires import marks to be stamped on the gun.
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  #58  
Old 11-19-2013, 09:59 PM
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Thanks for the reply.

Let me get the pistol in hand and then I will decide if i am curious enough to pop $50 for the letter.

Is the 356 TSW cartridge completely dead now. I haven't heard about it in years and really have not given it much thought. Why was it banned from IPSIC or is that just a story?
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
I think this is where the seller must have gotten his information also.
For what it's worth the seller had his information several years before this thread was started
James
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:33 AM
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********WOW********
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  #61  
Old 11-20-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justicetyme View Post
For what it's worth the seller had his information several years before this thread was started
James
Sorry James, your description was right on and I appreciate that. Thank you.

Bob
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  #62  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:19 PM
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The major power factor for IPSC/USPSA back in the day was 175pf. Which is well over stock SAAMI spec .38 Super and 9mm loads. Enough problems came up to where you had terms such as ".38 Super face" when a 1911 extractor came out your way. It was tough on stock guns so S&W did the right thing to develope and gun and cartridge that would handle the pressure of such a load. But that left a lot of guns out there that wouldn't, so the easy fix was to only allow it in Open Class where there were mostly all custom built guns. Then make Limited Class .40cal and up for major and anything under score only minor at the 125pf. They have since gone down to 165pf for major and you are now seeing 9mm major in Open Class. I think S&W missed the boat when they didn't pursue more of a LE market for the .356TSW, easily surpass the .357sig and would give them the high capacity they were looking for, coulda, woulda, shoulda.
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  #63  
Old 11-09-2014, 05:18 PM
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A recent thread on a SD 356 TSW had some additional information on International Super 9, I have updated the original thread with this information.

It was thought there were around 250 - 660 International Super 9s, the production letter now confirms the number to be 166 (+5 TDU serial numbers).

A rare pistol indeed.
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  #64  
Old 11-09-2014, 06:24 PM
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Hey, it's a hi-cap 952.
I like it.
I especially like the first set of wood grips in the first post.
Would love to get some of those for my 5946.
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  #65  
Old 11-13-2014, 02:15 PM
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I had an opportunity to buy one of these and passed, since I had a set of 3566TSWs from the PC. I could not anticipate rarity factors as I was a shooter…bullseye, IPSC, GSSF, etc. I figured that I needed a 9x21 like a whole-in-the-head, since a 9x21.5 was better…I also had a .38 Super…
Shame on me!
Here are my 356TSWs….5-in-all !!!!!!











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  #66  
Old 11-13-2014, 11:36 PM
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Sweet! I love the black on stainless.
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  #67  
Old 11-15-2014, 12:28 AM
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Hell's bells, a.356 J frame!
I LIKE IT!!

Who am I kidding? I like 'em all.
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  #68  
Old 11-30-2014, 09:44 PM
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I just stumble across this thread. I have a Super 9 with the 3 barrels.
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  #69  
Old 12-01-2014, 12:27 PM
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I thought I had died and went to heaven when I seen this thread. I had to check my pulse to make sure I was still good. I would love to get my hands on one but the wife would kill me.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuke View Post
I just stumble across this thread. I have a Super 9 with the 3 barrels.
If you want to share a serial number or a picture, I can add it to the original thread.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:27 PM
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Default Super 9

Product Code 108099. Serial Number 695X. Purchased in March 2001 , $900 out the door.
Attached Thumbnails
-img_1601_resized-jpg   -img_1668_resized-jpg   -img_3334_resized-jpg   -img_9582_resized-jpg  

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Old 12-07-2014, 06:39 PM
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I was told that these were made in the S & W custom shop ?? , not the Performance Center.
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  #73  
Old 05-11-2015, 07:26 PM
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Default Super 9 Letter

I sent away for a letter for my Suoer 9 # MFS6936. I have attached a scan.
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-scan0007-jpg   -scan0006-jpg  

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  #74  
Old 05-11-2015, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEMER1 View Post
I sent away for a letter for my Suoer 9 # MFS6936. I have attached a scan.
Sweet letter and included flyer.

The serial number range is a little different than another letter that involved the Super 9, (MSF6838-7003) vs (MSF6838-7008), but in any case only around 70 of the 3-barrel pistols exist within the borders of the US.

I will be updating the original post with this new information.

Thanks
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  #75  
Old 07-11-2015, 04:07 AM
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I joined this community since I wish to find out more about the 'super9' model. Someone just offered me a model9 with 3 barrels in a spotless condition. The thing that worries me is that I do not seem to be able to source TSW.356 amo in Europe. Please note that regulations for firearms are pretty strict over here. The price at which the gun was offered to me sounds like a bargain. What do you think ?

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  #76  
Old 07-11-2015, 06:58 AM
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Others here know more than I do and they will have better information than I do. They may correct any mistaken information I post.

Here in the States, the factories have not made 356TSW ammunition for a very long time; and any remaining factory made 356TSW ammunition is too rare and valuable to shoot. It was a great round for IPSC competition and self defense. The prejudice against it in IPSC was too much. And it was poorly marketed for self defense and never became popular.

Here in the U.S., anyone desiring to shoot 356TSW has to hand load. Your three barrel model was made for Europe and we have too few of them here.

The three barrel Super 9 should be a sweet example of older technology and still be able to hold its' own against newer technology. Where I live, the government considers the frame to be the restricted (or controlled) part of the handgun - a three barrel auto loading pistol is desirable.

I would want to buy that Super 9, but I am basically unable to find one. And 9X19 is the most readily available factory ammo here, 9X21 is available, and 356TSW is a handload only proposition. My only realistic option (for multiple caliber auto loading pistols) is to buy Glock, Sig, or S&W M&P's.

A good Magnum revolver still retains an advantage in being able to shoot different rounds and a tremendous flexibility of power.

I would use a Super 9 (3 barrel) if I could find one and also buy factory loaded 356TSW ammo for carry. Other realistic options include 9X23 and 357Sig.

Best wishes.
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuke View Post
I was told that these were made in the S & W custom shop ?? , not the Performance Center.
If I remember correctly, former employees have shared information & experience that both standard production and Performance Center versions were made. (The custom shop is the Performance Center.)

Unfortunately, I believe many of those posts and threadswere lost when the forum was hacked some years ago.
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:29 AM
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Thank you for your quick reply. This means I would not be ripped off if I could purchase the Super9 for about 500$. The ammo 9x19 is easily available and pretty cheap (I buy the czech S&B 9x19 FMJ). 9x21 is also easy to get. In addition to my question, is there a way to get the reloading material for this TSW .356 (I'm primarily thinking of empty shells).
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:50 AM
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Lewieke,

Obtaining a Super 9 at a price equal to $500 American is an outrageously good deal. One of these with the three barrels sold over here at auction not long ago for almost $3,000!

While it is true that many shooters (of the very few that own 356TSW pistols, which include six semi-auto models and one revolver) do hand-load their ammunition, factory ammo is still available through online auctions or from places like this Forum where Smith enthusiasts gather. There is an ad right now in the classified section offering to sell 356TSW ammo, which was made by Federal in full metal jacket and hollow point versions, and by Cor-Bon in hollow point.

The ammunition is not prohibitively expensive or too valuable to shoot, with the full metal jacket rounds going for 75 cents to $1.50 per round, and the hollow points $1.25 and up. Yes, the ammo is precious, but it is still a viable round for target or self-defense shooting.

I am still astonished at the low price of that pistol overseas (though I don't understand the vagaries of exchange rates, etc.) and I can assure you that if you purchased it over there, and are legally able to sell it here, you could do so very, very quickly.

Congratulations on an amazing find. There were only 170 total of the pistol you have, with 100 shipped to Wischo and the others retained here in the U.S. With the other 356TSW models made by Smith, there are less than 1,500 of these semi-autos in the world, along with however many of the revolvers (the PC Model 940 "Pocket Rocket") Smith produced, for which I haven't seen numbers but would suspect they are very low (say, less than 500, as a guess.) See TJ Popkin's post above for a series of photos that includes the 940.

I am not a reloader myself, but I have read that those who do have used 9mm x 19 dies successfully, and I have seen both new and used brass offered for sale in the 356TSW case. Standard 9mm projectiles are used in this process, and reloading data is available online and from folks here who "roll their own."
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Old 07-11-2015, 09:46 AM
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Great info, thx.

Getting the right to purchase firearms is in many European countries a rather complicated process. You need authorisation from local police, regional government and in my case, I have to defy the (inconstitutional) refusal by starting a procedure before the interior ministry to claim my rights as a civilian. This creates some issues on the second hand market. Fortunately I have found a great source in one of the neighbouring countries and I have the international expertise in exports and imports. Not as liberal as the US as you'll understand. I have processed the whole deal and from now on it wil take between 7 - 10 weeks before I actually get the piece.



This is the beauty I'm talking about.

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Old 07-13-2015, 10:12 AM
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[QUOTE=Lewieke;138618785]Great info, thx.

Getting the right to purchase firearms is in many European countries a rather complicated process. You need authorisation from local police, regional government and in my case, I have to defy the (inconstitutional) refusal by starting a procedure before the interior ministry to claim my rights as a civilian. This creates some issues on the second hand market. Fortunately I have found a great source in one of the neighbouring countries and I have the international expertise in exports and imports. Not as liberal as the US as you'll understand. I have processed the whole deal and from now on it wil take between 7 - 10 weeks before I actually get the piece.



This is the beauty I'm talking about.
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Old 07-13-2015, 10:24 AM
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Thumbs up

That looks great! I wish S&W had made more multi-caliber pistols. Congratulations!
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:31 PM
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@Lewieke
Congratulations on the Super9, $500 is a steal in almost any currency.

Does your serial number fall within the MSF6838 – MSF7008 range? I just want to make sure the information in the original post is kept accurate.

Thanks
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Old 07-13-2015, 03:03 PM
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It starts with MSF88xx
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewieke View Post
It starts with MSF88xx
That's surprising; it's outside the range provided by Roy Jinks on two separate production letters, and outside the range I've seen posted in pictures online (except for the TDU64xx pistols... and the blurry picture in my original post labeled as MSF6928?, but what really looks like MSF8328).

Looks like you might have an excellent candidate for an additional production letter to solve this little mystery.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:28 PM
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Lewieke, it's a gorgeous pistol and package. I am green with envy over here across the pond from you!

It's interesting that the Super 9, being such a nice pistol and packaged with the three barrels, is from the production side of Smith & Wesson and not from the Performance Center as so many other "super" pistols were, especially in the 356TSW caliber. That's not a criticism at all -- just interesting that the production side got into a limited run, specialty pistol like that one.

You will have many many years of shooting enjoyment from that piece, and I am happy for you that you obtained it!
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:21 PM
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The Performance Center .356TSW pistols were manufactured using the Briley Titanium Nitride Bushing system. The std. Super 9 was made with conventional 9mm barrels without the Briley bushing. Accuracy is amazing with the Briley…so good, in fact, that it convinced me to utilize the system on some 1911's that had marginal accuracy. Result….installing the bushing resulted in remarkable improvement in accuracy.
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Old 09-13-2015, 09:38 PM
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Hello. I just purchased a "super 9" with all three barrels. Mine also falls in the msf8300 range. Any infor would be appreciated.
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Old 09-13-2015, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete388 View Post
Hello. I just purchased a "super 9" with all three barrels. Mine also falls in the msf8300 range. Any infor would be appreciated.
Most of the info is in this thread!

It's a highly desireable package, and they don't come by very often at all.
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Old 09-15-2015, 07:54 PM
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Pete388: I've added the MSF83xx serial number range to the original post, it looks like there might be a 2 hiding under the black dot, that would make it very close to the other MSF8328 super 9 I have found a picture for.

I'm hoping Lewieke will chime back in when he receives his super 9, I'm wondering if the MSF88xx is actually a MSF83xx.
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Old 10-02-2015, 08:29 AM
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Default super 9 !!!

I have a S&W super 9 with number MSF6849. is there any extrainformation about this toy ??
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:22 PM
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No extra information other than it looks like you have the 12th one in the primary serial number range. If you have a picture with the serial number, I could add it to the original post; it would be the lowest serial number that I have observed.

Thanks

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Old 11-25-2015, 03:50 PM
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Hello. It took a while before I got all permits to get the weapons I purchased. Local and federal law enforcement had some concerns about my requests but finally I passed all checks with all officials. I actually got the permits 3 days after the Paris attacks, which is some 250 kms away from here. Today my order got delivered. A Norinco 311-1 (Chinese M4 clone, pretty rare here) and my S&W Super9, complete package, 3 barrels, original case, 2 magazines. I posted a picture of the set earlier (with hidden serialnumber).

Due to arms control regulations, the serial number of the pistol will have to be engraved in the barrels. This will forever link the barrels to this particular pistol.

The serial number is MSF8823.

The arms dealer told me there's a similar one he sold in the Bruges area.





@skjos

Last edited by Lewieke; 11-25-2015 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:48 PM
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Well, it is absolutely gorgeous. Very happy for you.

I keep thinking that one day I will stroll across a Super 9, but it hasn't happened yet. I would sure love it if we could raid the Smith & Wesson production records and get 100% accurate information of exactly what and how many of each of these different fantastic guns were built.

Thanks for sharing your picture! I could look at it all day.
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Old 11-26-2015, 02:00 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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Lewieke, I'm glad you finally received your Super 9 and thanks for sharing the awesome pictures. I have included the new information into the original post.

Is the product code on the original case 108099 or is it something different?
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Old 11-28-2015, 04:08 PM
Lewieke Lewieke is offline
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The product code on the box is damaged and unreadable. Unfortunately. It may as well be a box belonging to another type of pistol. Hard to say.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:44 AM
Lewieke Lewieke is offline
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Hello guys,

I urgently need your help. As you read, I received my super 9 model with 2 exchange barrels. 9x19, 9x21 and 356TSW.

We have a gun controle agency here and they want to test the 356TSW but there is no ammo available on the market. I have found some shells though BUT in order to get it approved I would need the OFFICIAL recharging tables for powder. I'm not into reloading but I presume they mean the specific data sheet for powder for 356TSW. Who can help me (with as many data sheets as possible to increase my chances) to find the data sheets for a common powder type!!

I have found some dealers who are offering some Super 9 at really low prices. With your permission, I'll post the link here. If not, I'm sorry, in that case you can delete it.

Pistolen

wapenwinkel - Wapenhandel Den Haag

Last edited by Lewieke; 03-07-2016 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:35 AM
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When you say "shells," do you mean the empty brass casings that could be reloaded?

If the "official" data is not available, could you obtain ammo instead (perhaps by purchasing it from here in the U.S. and having it shipped to you) to satisfy the authorities there?

Sites like GunBroker offer this ammo from time to time, and I am sure that there are probably members here who would be happy to help you get the ammo you need from their own stocks. I got out of the caliber last year, unfortunately (and not willingly); otherwise, I would be happy to send you some myself.

By the way, 850 euros is about $930 -- a good price indeed for a Super 9 with the 9x19 barrel. The other site did not show a price but does show the three barrels with the gun.
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Old 03-07-2016, 02:31 PM
Lewieke Lewieke is offline
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I do indeed mean the empty brass casings that can be reloaded. I have found 100 pieces of these in Germany. In order to satisfy authorities, I would indeed need official reloading data supplied by a powder manufacturer.

Another solution would be to supply them with 3 pieces (only!) and an original (cardboard) box to prove they're factory ammo. It might not be very cost efficient to get them shipped to Europe. I would need an exporting license, an importing license and courrier service. Moreover it would have to be amo without HP since that's forbidden for civilians in Belgium. There is no easy way to do this I'm afraid. Getting the reloading data would be the simplest and cheapest solution.

By the way, the serialnumber on the weapon for sale is MSF 8808

Last edited by Lewieke; 03-07-2016 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 03-07-2016, 03:37 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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I'm not sure if this will help or not, but the "Cartridges of the World" book points to two sources of data, maybe you can get something official from there. See attachment.
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