Hi everyone. Just wanted to get a conversation started related to the .380 calibre - not JUST the Bodyguard (though it's what I have).
First, why did you choose it over another calibre, and which do you have(Ruger, Walther,etc) and why?
Secondly, have you had the need to use it in self-defense?
Any other comments, opinions, tips, or ammo advice is welcome!

I have a # of pistols, four of them in .380, a S&W BG; Beretta 84FS; Bersa Thunder Combat and Bersa Duotone CT. All are great firearms. I like the .380's because 1) the pistols are easily concealed; 2) today's .380 JHP round is adequate for close quarter self defense; and 3) .380 pistols and ammo are generally reasonably priced and available.

PS: No; I've never had to use this firearm in defense of myself or anyone else.

I have both an old S&W .380 and a SIG.
I used to carry .380, but since the new small 9mms came out, I carry 9mm or .38 spl in small guns.

I had occasion to shoot several critters with a .380, and the results were not impressive. particularly the possum that got up and tried to run off after a body shot. Of course, any small handgun is puny compared to a rifle or shotgun, or to my full sized .45, for that matter.

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Science plus Art

i have a walther ppk/s always wanted one and finialy found one for a good price. had the kel-tec for awhile first, it was great for a "pocket" gun but not very easy to shoot, on the other hand the walther ppk/s althrough not as consealable as the kel-tec, i enjoy shooting it.

I bought a BG380 because it was so cute I couldn't live without one. I leave it in my truck. I sometimes carry it if I'm wearing shorts. I don't have a lot of faith in the .380 because it is so low powered, but I hope someone won't want to get shot by it several times so they will cease and desist.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

Micro Desert Eagle. Buffalo Bore hard cast lead.
Very concealable. Have yet to find ammo it doesn't like.
Thankfully have not used it in SD.

I carry a Walther Ppk in cal .380. Its stainless and made by Ranger Arms to the exact German Walther PPk pattern. Its loaded with Hornaday Critical Defense ammo and is my hot weather gun. I have total confidence in it as it has never malfunctioned for 100's of shots.

Charlie

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SWCA # 2294

I like to carry my Colt Mustang in the summer. It shoots much more accurately than a Ruger LCP or S&W Bodyguard .380. I think that the LCP is the definitive carry gun for the pocket, though. They are no fun to shoot, but they are lighter than my all-steel Mustang (which is why they're no fun to shoot). A pocket gun like that is for carrying when you don't want to carry, but you do anyway. It's single advantage is that you are still armed.

People will tell you (usually the guy carrying a .40 S&W with two extra 12-round mags) that a .380 will "just make somebody mad" and "really won't do any damage". You should ask these folks to stand there and let you shoot them a few times with it. They won't.

Or how about this question:

You are in the woods and a momma black bear is upset you have come between her and her cubs. You have two guns, a .380 and a .40. The bear is coming and will not stop. Which gun do you want to use?

Oh sure a .380 to the brain perfectly placed will drop that bear, if it's not perfect though it sure can deflect off. And how will your accuracy be while a bear is chasing you? Can you put 10 rounds in the 10 ring with a bear swatting at you and your drawers full of brown baggage?

I think a drug addict on PCP is pretty comparable to a momma bear. Neither will stop until you convince them to stop. A .40 is a better convincer IMHO.

Not trying to start a war, I carry a lot of guns from a .380 to a .45, I just ain't going around saying a mouse gun could have saved General Custer.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

my Ruger LCP is a constant companion. loaded up with Remington Golden Saber, 102 gr. the round is good enough. is it the only gun i carry? no. is it a trustworthy BUG? yes. i know for a fact, the bang for your buck stops here. the .380 is a small but effective close range (3'8") round. do i think its the ultimate gun to carry? no. if i can't carry anything else, it fills that role. my usual not at work carry is my glock 19, and my trusty old 442. the LCP rides in a galco ankle glove as #3. when i cant take the 19, the 442 moves to a combat master, the 638 goes front pocket, and the LCP stays home. i love and trust my LCP. that said, i'll go for my j-frames first. i got three rounds off with it in SD, and the gentleman in question is still alive. that said, so am i...

I have a Makarov in .380 and it is one of the most accurate guns I have. That said, I carry another Makarov in 9mm Mak, which is much the same as the .380. It's not a .45, but I trust (hope) it's adequate.

I tried to like my BG .380 but left the range three times in a row bleeding from the web between thumb and forefinger; never had confidence in my ability to hit target consistently. Finally traded it for a like new mdl 60. I made the right choice.

Bersa 380cc, despite its lousy finish, great concealed carry. Need 3" barrel for .380. Can target 8 .75 x .45 caliber quickly, very accurate at ten yds in. Any more than that is not defense. Looks like a 3rd generation, decocker/safety. Modern ammo is wonderful.

I'm thinking of getting a PPk for my wife. She saw one and thought it was "cute". I have Critical Defense in my Bodyguard as well, but also have a box of Gold Dot and Winchester PDX1 on the shelf. Been viewing a lot of ballistics videos and it seems these three are the best available.

Sounds like you have large hands.

See comment above.

Forgot to mention Bersa 380cc is clone of Walther ppk at 1/2 price.
Hornaday Zombie better round that crictical defense. Check pistol barrel length on the Ballistic tests, less than 3" barrel not so good.

Thanks for that info on the Bersa cc. I've been thinking about one of those since it's what I see used in most of the ballistic test. Like the longer barrel too.
About the Zombie Max rounds: That was the first box of ammo I bought for my BG (it was all the store had) and I fired half of it to make sure it would feed. It's the same round as the critical defense except for the casing (nickel for the CD, brass for the zombie) and the color of the flex tip. The "Zombie Max" is just a marketing idea...and a good one at that. Gunsmith tells me that nickel casing(Critical Defense) is preferable because is reduces chances of feed jam when quick firing multiple rounds, also, it's easier to confirm the presense of a chambered round through the chambered round indicator.

Glad to hear you say that because I've been thinking about getting a Bersa cc for awhile now. I like the idea of a longer barrel for increased velocity AND accuracy!

In early March 2011, the following unsubstantiated information, purported to be from the Los Angeles Police Department, began circulating around several Internet forums. A call to Smith & Wesson confirmed that the content is true.

In order to encourage officers to carry back-up and off-duty firearms, as well as to take advantage of the technological advances in firearm and ammunition construction, the Department has authorized the following .380 caliber pistols and ammunition:

Approved Pistols
Ruger LCP, caliber .380
Smith and Wesson Bodyguard, caliber .380 (LAPD SKU ONLY, no manual safety)

Approved Ammunition
Hornady Critical Defense, .380 caliber, 90 grain load

This is comforting, knowing that my gun AND ammo are being carried by leo's. Granted, its back-up but hey, if I were a LEO and could open carry (without harassement) I would carry a .40 cal primary too.

You are so right. I completely forgot about the significant bear and archery threat in my day-to-day life in a heavily populated metropolitan area!

A lot of years ago, I had a Beretta 84, .380. It was too big for the .380 round and I never had much confidence in the round, so I sold it. Now, I am considering getting a small, easy to conceal .380 for warm weather carry. The round seems to have been greatly improved over the years and sometime my Kahr CW 9, which I believe to be one of the best carry guns around, is a little too big for deep concealment. I really like the little Kahr .380 and will probably have one soon. I don't know if this little gun will make me happy or not...we'll see.

I only have one role for a .380, that is in my pocket, in shorts, on a hot summer day when I can't carry anything else.
My choice for this is the Ruger LCP. Mine has been completely reliable, and I don't find it unpleasant to shoot.
If I can carry on my belt, there are lots of nice 9's that fit the bill better than any .380.

Kel-Tec 3AT fits very comfrotably in my jeans front pocket. Anything in your pocket is far superier to anything in the nightstand at home. I carry the small 380 at those times when I don't feel like carrying anything....

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Randy
Provenance nerd

My sentiments exactly.. Summer time cargo shorts - front right pocket Sig P238.

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Glen

Pocket Carry is just so convenient and comfortable that I haven't seen a reason to carry any other way.

Has anyone used a pachmayr grip (or any other type) for their Bodyguard? I'm hoping the one I just bought will make the grip a little more solid in my hand.

Bodyguard 380 is my new EDC gun. I love it, it shoots amazingly well and half the time i forget im carrying it! .380 What?

I have several .380s and I think they're great but the Colt Mustang Plus is no easier to conceal than my S&W J-frames and the Beretta Cheetah/M84 and even my Star Model S (a deadly accurate .380) are far too big - if I'm going to carry a gun that big I'll just tote my CS-45 and be done with it. I like .380s and if I didn't have J-frame revolvers the Mustang would see a lot of daylight but, since I have J-frames, that's my first choice. .380s, however, are great fun at the range, and excellent to use for practice if you're planning to carry any pistol (okay, the ammo is pricey, I admit that).

Anyone who thinks modern, defensive ammo in .380 is just an annoyance doesn't understand the power in those cartridges. I have no argument with anyone who chooses a .380 and I have looked at the Bodyguard more than a few times. So you never know....

***GRJ***

71 year old man with .380 vs. two armed robbers in FLA

Pensioner shoots at armed robbers in Florida - YouTube

Story:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-man...ry?id=16800859

Effective enough in my book. They threatened, .380 made them leave.

I pocket carry a Sig P238 380 and have a Colt model 1908 nickel 380 made in 1911. Am a bullet caster with 95 grain round nose cast and loaded 3000 rds of 380 this winter on a progressive loader. So won't have to mess with 380's for a long time.

Colt 380

That's a nice looking gun.

Couple of things:
1. Lost Lake, bad news for you, there is not a .380 made that will penetrate a bear skull. Or get through all that muscle/fat to the spine.
2. The good news, a .380 WILL stop just about any 2 legged varmint, you just need a central nervous system hit. That is what I train for with flat point 100 gr loads. A CNS or a pelvic cradle hit with one of those will drop anyone-but you must TRAIN to do that.
I carry a Sig 232 or a Walther PPK/S off duty because those are the mandated .380 autos by my agency. My preference is my BHP whenever possible and/or my 940. I have my fathers 100 year old 1908 Colt in 380 and it is as deadly as the day he bought it in 1913, put in a much stiffer recoil spring for the newer hotter loads.
For the .380 I do not trust an HP load, even the really expensive loads. A 100 gr FMJ flat point will do the job if you do your part-bullet placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin. Not my original, but suffices.
My prefderences for hit areas:
1. Throat right through to the spine
2. Head above the eyes or though one or both eyes.
3. Pelvic cradle-no one can move after a hit there-but they may still be able to shoot. This presumes that the hit shatters something, and my .380 loads will.

What is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself?

The Beretta 380 auto

While out hiking in Alberta Canada with my boyfriend we were surprised by a huge grizzly bear charging at us from out of no where. She must have been protecting her cubs because she was extremely aggressive.

If I had not had my little Beretta 380 with me I would not be here today!

just one shot to my boyfriend's knee cap was all it took…….the bear got him and I was able to escape by just walking away at a brisk pace.

It's one of the best pistols in my collection……...

I pocket carry a Sig P238, .380 whenever i go out.. Just something you get comfortable doing. I actually traded a BG .380 in for it...The BG had the longest trigger pull i've ever seen. Felt nice in my hand, BUT........

I've got a nickel Browning BDA 380 that I bought because I loved the look of it . It's a double stack and fits my hand perfectly . A metal frame so it's not real light . It's accurate and goes bang everytime I pull the trigger . I don't carry it but I wouldn't have a problem doing so . After all I carry a Seecamp 32 on occasion .

Regards ,
George

I'm wondering just when the purported +p rnd will be out, rumor is their is one out their already, and can blowback recoil handle it?

S&W Walther PPK/S. I bought this gun new and love it. It isn't a pocket gun but since I wasn't looking for a pocket gun it is perfect for me. It feels perfect in my hand and is VERY accurate using the CT laser. The iron sights are accurate as well but are small and would not be easily acquired under stress...I am sold on CT grips for my carry guns. As others have said the Bersa is a PPK clone...my Dad has a Bersa but it is not as reliable as my Walther. In the Bersa's defense it has very few rounds fired and would probably benefit from a little more use.

My Walther loves full power defense ammo and since I load for it I have found a couple of loads that work perfectly. Most .380's will be a little more shooter and ammo sensitive than larger calibers...I found the zone for mine and trust it 100%.

I bought the two tone for my oldest daughter...she liked mine so much I had to get one for her in order to keep mine at home!

Attached Images

380's 001.jpg (63.5 KB, 46 views)

Well I'm not taking a .380 bear hunting...

I was trying to get people thinking about the difference in caliber effectiveness.

The more I study bullet energy the more I find there is to know. None of us can use two different calibers in the same exact SD shooting and hit the same exact spot under the same exact circumstances so we have to rely on science and testing to show us the difference in bullet effectiveness.

We've all seen the FBI ballistics report that indicated the smallest round that could be considered effective for stopping humans is the 9mm, but the report doesn't get into the science of the reason why.

I believe (and I'm no physicist) that the 'energy' numbers you see on charts and bullet boxes expressed in ft/lbs of energy are extremely misleading. This is due to a number of factors, all which tend to muddy the equations and field results we observe.

For the sake of brevity, I will cut to the chase and throw this out there: A bullet's momentum is a much better indicator of its stopping power than its calculated energy. Energy and Momentum are not the same. (For more on this you can cruise the physics blogs and really rattle your brain..)

And once we look at why momentum is so important and effective we begin to understand why a low weight projectile is much less effective than a heavier projectile, even if their 'energy' in ft/lbs is similar. (By the way that whole ft/lbs number is extremely aggravating to a physicist discussing bullet effectiveness )

You've heard the old timers, street cops, long time shooters tell us the .38 special is a good round. I used to poo-poo the thought because the .380 posts very similar ft/lbs of energy. But after a lot of digging and scientific reading, I think the old pros really know what they are talking about.

I'll take a 158gr .38 over a 90gr .380 any day because it has a lot more momentum and thus a lot more effectiveness.

I do not wish to argue this at all. My intent is not to disrespect anyone or the .380. I'm just sharing a tiny bit of what I have learned and offering you the opportunity to do your own research.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

I'm going to offer a little defense of the .380 calibre (for defensive purposes) from a slightly different perspective. Of course, some will differ in opinion and I welcome the replies.
First, the purpose of defensive protection is NOT to kill an attacker, but rather to stop the attack. Granted, killing the attacker will certainly do that - but it's not suppose to be the intended purpose. I am determined to defend myself with lethal force if necessary, but if I can avoid having to deal with the moral and potential legal consequences of killing someone, I certainly want to.
Secondly, as demonstrated in this thread, most people will never have the need to even raise their firearm in self-defense, and considering that 9 out of 10 threats are averted by the perpetrator simply "seeing that you have a gun" the odds are EXTREMEMLY small of running into the one-out of ten attackers who are determined to continue...even when shot.
Like many of you I've watched many videos of attackers fleeing when confronted with a firearm. Did you notice that NONE of the attackers stopped to see what calibre the gun was before deciding to run?
In conclussion, I carry to protect myself and loved ones (and a fellow citizen, should the circumstance present itself), and therefore it's important to have a firearm with me at all times. Pocket carry of a .380 allows for this without any changes to my style of dress or clothing purchases...and I never feel undergunned.

Science and phychology, its probably all correct. Shooting the eyes out of moving target, I can't do that. But I can put 8 .380 rnds center mass in about 3 seconds. Try that with a .45. Bear might walk thru that. Should intimidate most humans though.

Until recently, the last .380 I owned and carried was a Beretta 84, and it's been more than 25 years since I owned and carried that one.

Last Fall I tried a friend's LCP, compared it to a BG380, and surprised myself by buying a LCP.

Why? Because it slips into some pants & jacket pockets that are too small for my J-frames. Simple as that.

I'd heard some good reports of the LCP's functioning from some of our folks carrying them, and my friend had nothing but good things to say about his (and he's another firearms instructor of many years experience).

My LCP has reliably fed & fired the FMJFP practice ammo we use, as well as Rem 102gr GS, Speer 90gr GDHP & Win 95gr T-Series.

The practical accuracy of my LCP has been surprisingly good. Although the sights are rudimentary and hard to see well (reminds me of older J-frame irons), if there's enough light to see and pick them up, the little gun will produce a ragged hole using any of the above ammunition out to 5 yds. I can achieve small fist-sized groups from 7-12 yds, and respectable groups beyond that range. At 1-3 yds, shooting fast-paced shot strings 1-handed hip/center-indexed, it'll produce fist-sized groups. That ought to be decent enough for my intended needs.

While I'd prefer one of my J-frames, I can carry the LCP in some instances where I can't conceal one of my J-frames (and when I don't want to wear a larger belt gun).

I'd have picked up a BG380, except the LCP is a little smaller and I didn't want the added bulk of the integral laser. The BG380 has better sights, and the grip is just enough larger that it might be preferable for some folks.

The littlest .380's aren't for everybody. (Neither are the 5-shot .38 snubs. )

I've found a use for mine as one of my retirement weapons ... but I'm not going to try and make it into something that it isn't. Given my druthers, I'd much prefer to have a 125gr, 130gr, 135gr or 158gr bullet weight ... which means one of my J-frames ... but there have been times when one of my J-'s just didn't work with my chosen dress of the circumstances.

I'm no longer required to wear a belt gun every day, nor do I wish to do so in many circumstances. For most instances where I don't feel the need to belt on one of my 9, .40 or .45's, I can slip a J-frame into a pocket holster and go about my daily activities.

For those times when even the J's are a bit too large or heavy, though?

Well, after more than 25 years I've found a diminutive pocket pistol chambered in .380 which can fill a role, for me.

It's a larger caliber than the assorted .22, .25 & .32 offerings, and there's been some development in the defensive ammunition being offered.

It's still not a .38 S&W Special ... but I can carry it when I can't carry one of my .38's, or at least not as easily. That works for me.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Fastbolt,
Thanks for the well worded comments. I suspect that even when I do purchase my next handgun - most likelly a.40 cal Smith & Wesson, I will still choose to carry my .380 about 95% of the time because gun belt just aren't as stylish as my taste dictate....and I'm not giving up my style!

The first gun I bought was a PK380 for the express purpose of concealed carry. I was disappointed in the caliber and the quality and it took me about a month to realize I didn't want to find out it wasn't enough gun by finding out it wasn't enough gun.
traded it for a S&W1911 subcompact in .45acp.

To be brutally honest, with all the small framed 9mm pistols out there I find no reason at all that anyone would want to carry a .380

IB

I won't copy and quote you guys but posts 41 and 43 were both excellent!

You are both so right and everything you said was true.
Yes, usually pulling a weapon of any kind will result in an attacker rethinking where he is supposed to be at the moment.

Perhaps a bigger round will stop someone better, but it also depends on shot placement.

Where am I going? Right where posts 41 and 43 were. Is the .380 effective? Depending on which parameters you judge it on, I'd give it a conservative yes.

But then so are the .22, .25 and .32.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

I have one of those also. Bought mine back around 1990. Nice shooting gun.

Nothing "brutal" about your comment.

Individual perspectives and experiences can vary a bit, though.

That's the reason I got rid of my Beretta 84. I could get a compact 9mm that held as many rounds and was as easily carried as the .380 compact. Or, I could carry my Star PD .45 compact.

The thing is, I couldn't find any diminutive 9mm pistols, that I wanted to own & carry, which are as small as the LCP or BG380. The LC9 & Shield 9 I recently tried on our range just weren't nearly as small as the LCP (or BG380). Neither was the PM9 I tried. (I've looked at a Nano, and it's not as small as the LCP. )

Even if I buy a Shield 9, the LCP will still occupy a place in my retirement collection, solely for reason of its overall size and ease of concealment carry in many of the situations & circumstances that matter to me.

I never expected to own, carry & use another .380 pistol. Not at all.

Well, Never Say Never, I suppose.

"Ballistic Effectiveness" is a subject that involves too many shades of grey for anyone to offer a definitive answer that will ever satisfy everyone.

When I was younger, I used to be one of those guys who thought that only a .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum/Special, .45 Colt or .45 ACP were "worthy" defensive calibers.

As a young cop I carried an issued .357 Magnum on-duty and either a "full-size fighting revolver" (remember when that appellation was popular? ) chambered in .357 or .44 Magnum off-duty, or else my .45 Commander.

After a career in LE, and having worked as a firearms instructor for over 20 years, my opinions have changed and evolved over time. I own several 9's & .40's, and a slew of .45's (barrel lengths of 3.25", 3.5", 3.75", 4.25", 4.5" & 5"), and I still have revolvers chambered in .38/.357, .44 & .45 Colt ... but the most commonly carried guns are my small 9's/.40's & my 5-shot J's.

Until I picked up the LCP, that is. Now, it sees an increasing amount of use. I would not carry it, however, if I couldn't shoot it accurately, controllably & effectively. That's me.

I also wouldn't carry it as a "duty gun", as I recognize its inherent caliber limitations.

I don't shill or proselytize handguns, handgun calibers or ammunition. I work with what someone is either required to use, or chooses to use ... and we focus on training, skillset, experience and mindset.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Fastbolt makes some great points.

I will only add that no amount of training can prepare you for the real deal. When the adrenaline is coursing, the hands are shaking and the hearts pounding could you put a low power small calibre round where it needs to go to stop someone from taking your life or that of a loved one?

Why even take the chance?

IB

My EDC is a LCP in the hip pocket of my Levis ... fits perfectly. It is deadly accruate at SD distances and it is extremely reliable. I have it loaded with Magtech 95gr FMJ.