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03-31-2013, 10:25 PM
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Need help from anyone with a 4516-2
Ok. This gun is driving me nuts. I am going to replace the recoil spring on this 4516-2. After reading about it on here I understand that the -2 model has 2 recoil springs as opposed to the -1 and earlier models which have 1 spring. It was described as an inner and outer spring. I took it apart again to take a look and i'm a bit confused. There are 2 springs but their not inside of one another. The one springs end looks damaged, and I cant see how you would be able to get the smaller spring off. PLEASE HELP. This is the last time I "get a good deal from my brother in law".
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03-31-2013, 10:32 PM
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Here are a few pictures
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04-01-2013, 05:03 AM
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Anyone have any info?
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04-01-2013, 08:17 AM
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If I were you, I'd call S&W customer service and ask them.
I have two Springfield Armory Champion pistols with double spring assemblies. One spring can be replaced, the other not. If you want to replace both springs you must buy a new assembly from Springfield. That may be the case with your pistol as well.
I found that on short barreled guns like my Champion, the double spring set up just is more effective in reducing recoil and especially in keeping flying cases away from my face. I tried to replace it with a single spring of higher resistance. It worked, kinda....but ejection was still erratic. I decided to stay with the original two spring set up.
Last edited by andyo5; 04-01-2013 at 08:41 AM.
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04-01-2013, 08:32 AM
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I have found that Brownell's and Midway carry an "outer" and an "inner" recoil spring for the 4516, and Midway has a recoil assembly for the gun which sounds like what you may need. Or you might try just replacing the "outer" spring, the one which you say is damaged.
Here is the URL:
Smith & Wesson 4516 | Semi-Automatic Handguns | Smith & Wesson
Last edited by andyo5; 04-01-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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04-01-2013, 09:13 AM
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I've got a 4516-3, LE version and have seen many 4516's over the years.
I've never seen that guide rod with "washers" on it or the spring set up you have there. It looks like after market parts, to me.
I would simply order a guide rod for a 4516-2 from S&W CS (4513TSW rod is the same part IIRC) and a dual recoil spring set from them while I was at it. Good luck! Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI
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04-01-2013, 09:20 AM
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+1
Your set up is not correct get a new guide rod and spring set.
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04-01-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroman114
Here are a few pictures
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Those are not original S&W parts.
Andrew
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04-01-2013, 05:17 PM
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Thanks guys. That's what I figured. Will order new parts tomorrow.
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04-01-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroman114
Here are a few pictures
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Hi Chiroman,
What you have there is a Menck Impact Buffer system which is not an original S&W component. I can't tell for sure from looking at the pictures but yours appears to have be a full size version that was shortened to fit the compact 45.
I seem to recall there being contact info for Mr. Menck in another post somewhere in response to another member looking for replacement springs.
In any event the guts of your 4516-2 should look like this:
And/or:
If I remember correctly there was a post here detailing how someone had contacted Mr. Menck and was able to get part numbers for Wolff replacement springs that fit the Buffer system. Might be worth spending some time with the search tool. However, I'd strongly recommend replacing the buffer system with the OEM parts. Good Luck.
Cheers
Bill
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04-01-2013, 06:39 PM
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Ouch! something just dawned on me while looking over your pictures. Check & measure the diameter of the guide rod hole in the front of your slide. I suspect yours may have been drilled oversize to fit that Menck buffer. If your hole is in spec for a 4516-2 It should measure around 0.244" or so (the dual spring guide rod I have here measures 0.236" in diameter)
If your slide has in fact been bored oversize you can opt for the 4516-1 single spring arrangement. The hole in the slide would be around 0.295" to accomodate the the factory guide rod diameter of 0.290" and the single 4516-1 springs are available from Wolff.
Cheers
Bill
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04-01-2013, 07:49 PM
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Well I don't have any way at the moment to measure such a small hole precisely. As for the buffer system I'm not sure what to do with that. I was going to order new parts from S&W tomorrow but if their not going to fit why bother. I might just trade this for a Remington 700 and be done with it.
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04-01-2013, 07:53 PM
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Why would someone change the internals to this buffer system?
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04-01-2013, 08:53 PM
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Got any drill bitts? Take a 1/4 inch bitt and using the blunt end see if it will fit through the guide rod hole. If it does fit through with some slop, your slide cant be used with the dual spring. If it wont fit in the hole at all I'd say your good to go for ordering the replacement parts.
The dual recoil spring uses a skinny stainless rod thus the hole in the slide is a bit less than 1/4 inch. The single springs were used on the full size 4506 & 4566 plus the 4516-1 has a fatter aluminum guide rod and a hole in the slide a bit larger than 1/4 inch nearly 5/16" in fact.
The problem for you lies in the fact that the inner spring from the dual spring setup is about the same size as the single spring guide rod. So, were you to fit the correct parts to your gun and if the slide has indeed been drilled out, I'd expect the inner spring to be sticking out the front of your gun after a few shots at best.
Cheers
Bill
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04-01-2013, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroman114
Why would someone change the internals to this buffer system?
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Sometimes folks do "stuff" that seems a wonderful idea at the time.
I used to be amazed when I'd see that "stuff". Not so much anymore.
Might check with the fella you got the gun from in event he might have the original parts?
Cheers
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04-01-2013, 09:14 PM
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I doubt it. I got it from my brother in law who bought it from a guy where he previously lived. Ill check the hole size tomorrow when I get home. I might just trade this thing for the 700 remington and be done with it.
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04-02-2013, 04:59 PM
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Bill you were right. I got home and put a 1/4 drill bit into the hole and it went right through with room to spare.
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04-02-2013, 06:58 PM
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Well Sir, Here's what you can do...
Make like it's a -1 and get this guide rod S&W pn:108000000 and this spring: S&W pn:201330000. Now if S&W doesn't have that guide rod anymore you can get a longer one for a 4566 or a 4506 and trim it. In fact I've got one around here somewhere from a 4566 that I'd be glad to shorten for you.
The 4516-1 spring... last I heard is no longer available from S&W but.... Wolff still makes -1 springs in weights from 15 up to 23lb that you can find here: Springs for SMITH & WESSON NUMBERED SERIES Semi-Auto Pistols
Were it me, I'd go ahead and make her run right. When it's set up properly, a 4516 is just tough as nails and will eat anything you feed it. My dash 1 is just plain silly reliable and rides on my belt every day.
Let me know If I can help.
Cheers
Bill
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04-03-2013, 09:39 AM
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I'd go with an 18lb spring in that 4516-2. Just for the extra push to ensure reliability. I'd change it out every 3000 rounds too.
To echo what BMCM advises, fix that 4516-2 and give it a try. In my experience they are one of the most reliable compact 45's on the market. Good luck! Regards 18DAI
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04-04-2013, 01:47 PM
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Where can I get a new slide for the -2? Does S&W still have them? Any idea what they cost?
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04-04-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroman114
Where can I get a new slide for the -2? Does S&W still have them? Any idea what they cost?
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Try calling C/S at S&W. My parts manual quotes $339.42 for a slide assembly. Thats assuming they're still stocked. I still think your best bet would be to set it up as a 4516-1 then spend the other $300 on ammo.
Cheers
Bill
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04-04-2013, 04:42 PM
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04-04-2013, 07:00 PM
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Is there something functionally wrong with the setup now?
Andrew
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04-04-2013, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb70
Is there something functionally wrong with the setup now?
Andrew
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Yup,
Op's 4516-2 gun was fitted with what appears to be a modified Menck impact buffer. Fitting that buffer required either swapping the slide for a -1 model or drilling out the guiderod hole in his -2 slide to accomodate the larger rod on the Menck. The springs need replacing, you can see in post #2 where the cut end of the Menck spring has been getting battered & peened in there. The factory dual springs & rod are long gone so Op is looking for a fix.
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04-04-2013, 09:01 PM
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Ok. I am going to call S&W and order a -1 rod and spring if they still have them. I am to believe based on the above advise it will fit in the enlarged hole created by the moron who screwed with the gun previously.
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04-05-2013, 12:59 PM
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S&W doesn't make or have any -1 or -2 parts!
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04-05-2013, 01:10 PM
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Go to the 4516-2 schematic on the S&W website. Get the part numbers off the parts you need and call back to place the order. Give them the parts numbers only, and you are likely to get a different answer.
I always call back two or three times. Till I get the answer I want.
Numrichs would be another place to check too. Good luck! Regards 18DAI
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04-05-2013, 01:35 PM
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Part numbers for the dash 1 revision components are in post #18
Cheers
Bill
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