Just was curious of the compact single stack 3rd gen models. I know the cs models are compact, what else?
I have a 915 and love it, just wanting a smaller single stack.

According to the bible, the following 3rd gen compact models of these series were single stack: 1000 Series(10mm), the 3900 series(9mm) & the 4500 series(.45 ACP). If this is incorrect I'm sure somebody will be along soon.

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

In 9mm, the 3900 series, including the 908, is compact. Three and a half inch barrels compared to 4" on the 915. The subcompact would be the CS9. Three inch barrel and one less round in the magazine due to a shorter grip (3 5/16" compared to 3 9/16 from the top of the grip panel to the bottom). Some will consider the 6900 as compact. It's the same size as the 3900 except for the fatter grip of the 6900 for the 12 round magazines. My tape measure reads 5 1/4" for the CS9/3900 grip circumference, and 5 3/4" for the 6900. That 1/2 inch feels bigger than it is.
Other calibres are different. In the 40s, you have the CS40 and shorty forty; I don't know how they compare to the larger guns. Same with the CS45.

Hello, Walkbyfaith!
If I may add on to what timn8er and tom-tom have already posted:
Among single-stack 3rd generation pistols with TDA operating systems (Double-action first shot. Single-action subsequent shots), S&W has made it easy to recognize the compact models (shorter grip frame and barrel). Here it is:

THE THIRD DIGIT WILL ALWAYS BE: 1

That's it! That's all you have to remember.

9mm: 3913, 3914
.40s&w: 4013, 4014
.45acp: 4513, 4516
10mm: S&W never commercially produced a compact. They did sell a full sized frame model with a shorter barrel (4-1/4" as compared to 5").

If you get into the DAO (Double Action Only) Single-stack models:

THE THIRD DIGIT WILL ALWAYS BE: 5

9mm: 3953, 3954
.40s&w: 4054
.45acp: 4553, 4556

Whereas the first 2 digits will indicate caliber:
39= 9mm Single-stack
59= 9mm Double-stack, Full size
69= 9mm Double-stack, all are compact
40= .40s&w Single and Double-stack
45= .45acp Single-stack (only)
10= 10mm Single-stack (only)

The only two Value Line pistols to be compacts are the 908 (9mm, 8-round Single-stack) and 457 (.45acp, 7-round Single-stack).

All CS (Chiefs Special: CS9, CS40, CS45) models are sub-compacts, having shorter frames and barrels than even the compact models.

BTW: If third digit=0, Pistol is full-sized.
Fourth digit indicates material (i.e. 4=carbon steel slide and frame; 6=stainless steel slide and frame; 3=stainless steel slide and alloy frame).

Hope this helps to decipher the seemingly indecipherable.
John (I learned this from the smart folks on this forum).

You're right John, & thanks for the correction. The 1066 is Not considered a compact, but is considered s short barrel, hence the first 6 in 1066 standing for non standard length barrel.

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

Wow thanks for that map of number. I really appreciate it!

Walkbyfaith,
You are welcome. It was my pleasure.

Tim,
Not so much a correction as an expansion of your accurate points. (And thank you for your generous assistance with other questions).

John

Wow, I think I learn something new most every time I come here. Thanks to all!

Thanks, JohnHL. Very clear and concise info.
Not to quibble, but the 69XX series is an anomaly. As posted above by JohnHL:
Whereas the first 2 digits will indicate caliber:

69= 9mm Double-stack, all are compact
emphasis added

Yet also from above, when speaking of the compacts:
THE THIRD DIGIT WILL ALWAYS BE: 1

By all rights, the 6904/06 should be 6914/13.
I've read that the designations are a carry-over from the 469/669 Second Generation, with the first number being slide material, 4= carbon steel, 6=stainless steel.

That's just one of those things that S&W does every now & then to make sure you're paying attention!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

tom-tom,
You're right! The 6900 series is misnamed.
Although I did specify in the second line of my post: "Among single-stack 3rd generation pistols..." when I stated that the 3rd digit will always be: 1.
It seems to me the 6900 series was misnamed or perhaps more correctly, mis-numbered by accident.
It's my understanding that S&W named their first stainless steel gun the Model 60, a revolver released in 1965. It and other stainless steel revolvers were a big success. As the company released stainless steel versions of other popular blue steel revolvers, it simply put a 6 in front of the guns blue steel number (i.e. the 29 became the 629 or stainless 29).
When S&W decided to make improvements to the model 39 and 59 auto-loaders and produce some in stainless steel, the number 6 prefix was already known to the buying public as the designator of stainless.
Hence the 639 and 659.
The number 4 prefix, as a designator of carbon steel was created, I assume, to differentiate the 2nd generation model 39 from the 1st.
As public demand increased for a compact 9mm double-stack model 659, S&W responded with the 2nd gen model 669. (I don't know why they decided 69 meant compact double-stack, but they were already down that road, and they went with it.)
The buying public went auto-loader crazy and Smith & Wesson decided to produce a wide variety of pistols in almost any configuration. Single-stacks, double-stacks, full-size, compact, 9mm, .45acp, 10mm, .40s&w.
Just what to name (or number) them all?
Some genius came up with the 4 digit numbering system. It perfectly described the salient attributes of each pistol to which it was assigned and differentiated the "new and improved" (they were) 3rd generation models from the 2nd.
Except for the 9mm compact double-stack.
The 669 compact was very popular and well known to the buying public. To ease the introduction, S&W renamed its flagship full-size model (the 659) the 5906 in accordance with its 3rd gen numbering protocol.
The compact 669 was renamed 6906 (compact 5906) because the 669 was well known as the compact 659.
So, if S&W had followed their own numbering system for the 6906, it would correctly be the model 5913. (And there isn't one.)
59= 9mm double-stack
The last digit: 3= stainless slide and alloy frame

and THE THIRD DIGIT SHOULD ALWAYS BE: 1 (indicating a compact slide and frame)

That (to the best of my knowledge) is how my beloved 3rd Generation Model 5913 came to be known as the Model 6906.
John

Very informative. Thanks for the info. What about the fact that the 6900s have a shorter barrel than the 5900s? Also, where do the "shorties" stand in size comparison with the full sized pistols, compacts, and subcompacts. To my knowledge, I've never seen one of these. Aren't they rare among the 3rd gens?

When you get into the Performance Center shorties, forget everything you have learned in all of the previous posts on the numbering scheme.

Take the Shorty Forty, the S&W labels call them a 4006. The only thing in common with a 4006 is the caliber. The 4006 was all stainless, the Shorty has an alloy frame. Its more of a glorified 4013TSW not to be confused with the original 4013 which was a single stack. I think S&W does this on purpose just to keep us all confused.

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Mike in SouthCentral Kentucky

You are very welcome, tom-tom! It was my pleasure.
You are correct about the 6900 series having shorter barrels than the 5900 series although it is the only caliber designator in the 3rd gen numbering protocol that differentiates size. For example, 3900s are 9mm single-stack regardless of size (i.e. 3906= full size; 3913, 3914= compact).
The same holds true for pistols chambered in .45acp (4506= full; 4513, 4516= compact), .40s&w on two different frames (4003, 4006= full double-stack; 4013, 4014= compact single-stack; 4013TSW= compact double-stack), and 10mm (1006= full; as stated, there was no commercially produced 10mm compact).
As you said, tom-tom, the 6900 series was an anomaly.
When S&W transitioned to to the 3rd gen models (and before they embarked on their "new gun every week" model roll-out as some gun writers referred to the plethora of new models and configurations produced by the prolific company) they only had three basic models (available in carbon and stainless steel): 9mm full-size single-stack, 9mm full-size double-stack, and the then new .45acp full-size single-stack (at a time when most folks thought .45acp= 1911. And some still do!)
Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. An EXTREMELY popular compact 9mm double-stack: the models 469 and 669 (the stainless 669 being vastly more popular as the rust-prone, albeit lower-priced, carbon steel pistols were falling into disfavor).
Unwilling to abandon the good will and strong product recognition engendered by the public's love of the 669, the company elected to violate its own 3rd gen numbering system in favor of the contradictory designation of 6906.
69= compact double-stack
0= full-size (the 6906 is a compact)
6= stainless steel frame and slide (the 6906 has an alloy frame and stainless slide)
As I stated earlier, the correlation in the public's mind between the full-size 659 and the compact 669 was simply too powerful for the marketing people to ignore. If the 669 was the compact version of the 659, then, by God, 6906 would be the compact version of the 5906. Numbering protocol be damned!
Of course, the rest is history.

Regarding the "Shorties", tom-tom and kcode are right.
Smith and Wesson is a large manufacturing company with employees and share holders. Generating revenue is their goal and they will produce almost anything that is profitable. Occasionally they will produce limited edition models from their performance shop or at the request of a major distributor. These are typically low volume/highly labor intensive guns with special features at premium prices. They also usually have names assigned to them by the performance center or distributor to differentiate them from the "bread and butter" production pistols. Knowledgeable collectors will recognize basic design features that relate these pistols to their more mundane production counterparts, but these truly are "factory customs" and therefore deserve a category of their own.
John

I have a 6906 and also have big hands and I have a hard time thinking of my 6906 as a compact.

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Back to back World War Champs.

It's all relative, Comrad.

Actually a 4 as the prefix (on 2nd Gens) or the tail number on 3rd Gens means alloy frame. Hence the 559/539 and rare 5905 which were all steel receivers in blue finish.
As for the misnomer on the 6900 series, personally I think that piece had become its own entity in the series, and predates the "Pistol of the month" thing Smith had going in in the 90s, seemed like every month they had a new pistol or variation of an existing model. Hell S&W even had a wheel chart for dealers so they could figure out what pistol a customer was talking about!
Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

The 3914 and the 3913 are both single stack compact 9's. They hold 8 rds. in the mag. I have both and they are excellent shooters. I carry the 3914 most of the time because it had a few carry marks on the frame when I got it. I also carry a 469 that I like awful well.

Actually, on a 3rd Gen, according to the bible a "4" as a fourth number would mean it was an aluminum frame with a steel slide. That is, unless my meds haven't kicked in yet!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

Exactly! Aluminum alloy frame/blued steel slide. And no I don't think your meds have kicked in yet.
As for this "bible", I'm working from memory myself.
Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

Check out the advertisement in this link, they're more like customized 6906's
were shorty 9's

Here's my 5943TSW and CS9 for size comparison

Don't forget the 4536... .45 cal compact with frame decocker. Pics with 4014 & 4053.

Attached Images

	4014,4053,4536.jpg (148.8 KB, 28 views)
	Picture6-12-2011 028.jpg (143.3 KB, 22 views)

I'm still shaky on the shorty. If a Shorty 9, a 6906, and a CS9 were laid side by side, what would the comparisons be? Is a PC9 the same (or comparable to) a Shorty 9? The PC9 seems to be a 6904 that's had some hand fitting. Is that right or am I totally off base. It's been known to happen, I'm sorry to admit as senility gets a firmer grip on my mind. (I prefer the term senility to Alzheimer's. Easier to spell and type.)

The pc pistol has got a lot more tooling done to the slide and a bit more time spent on the assembly of it. I don't know if all the pc pistols had the Briley bushings , I'm sure someone will be in to enlighten us.

On the wish list forum a couple of weeks ago I mentioned how nice it would have been if S&W had made a 3933, but a 3936 would have been nice too.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

From what I know of the PC series (and it ain't much since I was more into the standard line) is that they were essentially a custom, hand built piece. Slides were lapped to the frame, all matching parts were used and inspected, I think the Briley bushing was used on all of the series, and special attention was paid to the action.
The 6900 was a standard issue piece, meaning it was put together with parts out of the bin, a QC check was performed and it was test fired.
The CS9 was essentially a cut down 3913 mention for deep cover or CCW by those who needed the smallest TDA or DAO 9mm at the time.
A side story; a friend of mine bought one of the first Shorty Forty's to hit the street, oh it was one well built machine and he couldn't wait to shoot it! He called me and bunch of his other friends to come and try it...it shot fabulously..low and too the left!! Yup a PC piece that wasn't sighted in at the factory! You bet he sent it back too!
He still has it, but seldom carries it as its rather rare and he prefers a Glock or Browning Hi-Power these days.
Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

I don't have a Shorty 45 but I do have the 9 and 40. You can tell when you rack the slides that the fit is tight and smooth. They both feed very nice but the 9 feeds exceedingly smooth. Mine have adjustable sights and hit POA...1" groups from 25' is achievable from a steady hand and maybe less than that if rested.
Briley bushings and although the triggers are very smooth they seem to be of standard weight pull. Barrels, slides and frames serial numbered together.

I like 'em!

Attached Images

Shortys 001.jpg (57.8 KB, 27 views)

As well you should! I dream of having a trio of Shorties...but I guess I'll have to win the lottery first.

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

A high percentage of the early "Shorty" series had some quality and safety issues. S&W really didn't want to publicize this and did a quiet recall.

Most have been safely recovered. I've been authorized by S&W (my last name is Smith, figure it out) to recover any remaining Shorties. The funds for the remainder have been almost exhausted, but we are paying $200 each plus S&H as a measure of good will and faith. No altered Shorties, nor those without original proof of ownership like the box and papers are covered under this program; but if you have one with box and papers and want to take advantage of this deal while you can, pm me and we will make the proper arrangements.

This also applies to any 4014's.

Shoot, I don't have the box and papers. Guess I'm SOL (shorty outta luck) on this very selfless and important project you're involved in, Hokie. Maybe next time?

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

I can make an exception for you!

Don't forget there are 39xx series that are compact and then there are those that are ......More compact........

No levers & shorter grip

[IMG][/IMG]

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