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  #51  
Old 12-26-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
DD,
Now if someone can tell me what the heck a M5946RCMP is?
That's the 5946 that was made for the RCMP. DAO version of the 5906. S&W also made them for the NYPD. All stainless, double stack, 9mm.

Of course being a Canadian version, it only shot the hard to find 9mmNerf.
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  #52  
Old 12-26-2013, 12:22 PM
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M5946RCMP,

Methinks the RCMP, indicates something made for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, M5946 maybe means a 5946 with a Melonite finish. Someone with more knowledge than me can chime in.
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  #53  
Old 12-26-2013, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 427mach1 View Post
I've never heard of a non-TSW 4013 double stack. I believe the pre-TSW was only available single stack. Then, as you have indicated, there were two versions of the double-stack TSW; one without a rail and one with a rail. I could be wrong but......
I'll concede that, since I brought it up.

I was thinking of the non-rail "Tactical" 4013, but I see now that they are actually marked 'Mod 4013TSW' on the frame.

Last edited by BruceB; 12-26-2013 at 03:01 PM.
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  #54  
Old 12-26-2013, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
I'll concede that, since I brought it up.

I was thinking of the non-rail "Tactical" 4013, but I see now that they are actually marked 'Mod 4013TSW' on the frame.
Yep, I'm wearing one right now - a late 96 production date!
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  #55  
Old 12-26-2013, 06:24 PM
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5946 (RCMP) added.
4013 double stack pre-rail removed.
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  #56  
Old 12-26-2013, 06:30 PM
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How about adding the DAO versions of the CS series guns. I own a CS9D, which is a DAO CS9.
Anyone else own a CS9D, CS40D or CS45D?
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  #57  
Old 12-26-2013, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
DD,
I updated the production dates for the 4516.
Thread "4516 vs. 4516-1 vs. 4516-2" states a dual recoil spring for the no-dash, so I've changed the comment to "may have single or dual recoil spring" to cover both instances. Your historically letter wouldn't happen to have production numbers would it?
Okay, I read the thread you noted and understand the confusion. The 4516 (no dash) was manufactured with one recoil spring as was my 4516-1. However, after the introduction of the dual recoil spring set with the 4516-2, S&W offered an upgrade to those who wanted to send in their earlier 4516 and 4516-1 pistols. In fact, I did just that with my 4516-1 which now has a dual spring set. Because the recoil spring rod for the dual spring set has a much smaller diameter than the original rod, the factory would insert a bushing in the slide during the upgrade process. This "bushing" was referred to a couple of times in the thread you referenced. There were also a few other things the factory would do to the pistols getting an upgrade. Thus, the 4516 and 4516-1 pistols that are now being observed with a dual spring set were sent back to the factory for the free upgrade. They were not originally shipped from the factory that way.

As for production numbers, no there were none mentioned in the factory letters I have.

[** Oops, it appears my comments about the 4516 (no dash) were in error, see below.]

I've checked more closely on this issue (and directly communicated with an original owner who stills has his original 4516 (no dash) and it appears that the 4516 (no dash) came from the factory with a dual spring set. Thus, it seems S&W made the pistol originally with a dual spring set (4516), S&W then added weight to the slide and went to a single spring (4516-1), and finally S&W decided that the dual spring set was the way to go after all and went back to it (4516-1 upgraded at the factory and the 4516-2).

HTH

Last edited by Denver Dick; 01-03-2014 at 12:36 AM.
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  #58  
Old 12-26-2013, 07:26 PM
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Added two-tone variations for the 410, 411, 457, and 908 based on SCSW and a recent thread with a two-tone 410.

Added CS*D models.
Also added notes to CS9, CS40, and CS45 for the CS*C and CS*S model shown in the S&W parts list.

Added "Single recoil spring or S&W upgrade to dual recoil spring" to the 4516, this carries over to the 4516-1, and I show the 4516-2 as dual spring only.

Last edited by skjos; 12-26-2013 at 07:40 PM.
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  #59  
Old 12-27-2013, 12:16 AM
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Default More 4516 minutia.

S&W no longer sells single recoil springs or original guide rods for 4516-1s. The description “Single recoil spring or S&W upgrade to dual recoil spring” is correct for the 4516-1. I’m not sure about 4516 no-dashes. I only read on this site that they had dual springs.

4516-1s were sold with magazines with yellow followers marked “For 4516-1 only”, and not for other dash variations. S&W could only have meant they were not to be used in no-dashes as dash 2s didn’t exist yet. The newest black follower magazines with different side indentations came latter, perhaps coincident with the dash 2 as Roy wrote in Denver Dick’s letter. FWIW, all three vintages run fine in my dash 1.
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  #60  
Old 12-27-2013, 12:25 AM
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The newer magazines might have the S&W logo on the sides. I have to go through my pile of 457 magazines and see if they all have the logo or just the newer ones with the black followers. I have two magazines with the yellow followers and they do not have the logo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k22fan View Post
4516-1s were sold with magazines with yellow followers marked “For 4516-1 only”, and not for other dash variations. S&W could only have meant they were not to be used in no-dashes as dash 2s didn’t exist yet. The newest black follower magazines with different side indentations came latter, perhaps coincident with the dash 2 as Roy wrote in Denver Dick’s letter. FWIW, all three vintages run fine in my dash 1.
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  #61  
Old 12-30-2013, 05:06 PM
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There is also the Melonite 4566. These were probably the last 4566's made before the 4566TSW's were produced. The 4566-M may actually have been produced concurrent with the TSW's. 2001?

All black melonite finish 4566 with MIM hammer and trigger. Novak night sights. Probably less than 300 made.

Very nice work on the compilation of models OP. This should be a sticky here. Regards 18DAI
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  #62  
Old 12-31-2013, 02:50 PM
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I had a 4567 like this one:





I loved it. Bobbed hammer, fed everything, night sights, Commander-length slide/barrel, nice two-tone looks, totally reliable.
I never cared for the DA/SA transition, though, and traded it on something.
Glad I had it though!
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  #63  
Old 01-03-2014, 12:40 AM
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skjos

Please see the edit to my 12/26/13 post above. When you're doing some other revisions to the list, you may want to note that the 4516 apparently came from the factory with dual recoil springs.
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  #64  
Old 01-06-2014, 08:21 PM
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This a great list and thanks for all the time that you have put into completing it. Is it possible to make it available for download or can it be made as a sticky for future reference. Thanks,
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  #65  
Old 01-06-2014, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
DD,
I updated the production dates for the 4516.
Thread "4516 vs. 4516-1 vs. 4516-2" states a dual recoil spring for the no-dash, so I've changed the comment to "may have single or dual recoil spring" to cover both instances. Your historically letter wouldn't happen to have production numbers would it?

GH,
Added the CHP 4006; while its features are not really that unique, it is listed as a separate model in the S&W parts list.

Now if someone can tell me what the heck a M5946RCMP is?
The M5946RCMP is a 5946 (DAO version of the 5906) and RCMP would be the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. :-)

GREAT LIST and thanks in advance for sharing it with your fellow S&W enthusiasts/collectors!
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  #66  
Old 01-06-2014, 10:43 PM
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I was about to post the file, but then I started to work on tab #2 "The Complete 3rd Gen Performance Center Model List", its proven to be a bit more difficult.

I also ordered the 34th edition of the blue book, so when it arrives I should be able to update some of the production dates.
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  #67  
Old 01-09-2014, 07:03 PM
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Don't know if the listed Melonite 5946 is the same, but according to this thread, Melonite 5946s with integral rail - found another one there was a few Melonite 5946's with an integral rail.
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  #68  
Old 01-10-2014, 12:16 AM
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Revised the description of the 5946 (-M) to state integral rail.
Added the 2214ni model.
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  #69  
Old 01-10-2014, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
Revised the description of the 5946 (-M) to state integral rail.
Added the 2214ni model.
So where does my 5946 with (what I believe to be melonite) black finish fit in then? It does not have the RCMP logo, but was re-imported back to the US.
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  #70  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:03 AM
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I've seen posts where the a melonite 5946 did not have RCMP markings on the pistol, but the box showed it as RCMP. I'm assuming your pistol may fall into this catagory.

http://smith1b-dev.techiemedia.net/s...ad.php?t=70522
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  #71  
Old 01-10-2014, 10:44 AM
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I guess it's possible it was a test gun, but I doubt it based on the holster wear it has. It is an older 5946 without a rail, so it's different than that in the thread you linked to. Here's a pic just for reference.





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  #72  
Old 01-10-2014, 12:26 PM
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skjos”:

Working on something else at the moment and only have a minute or two. I don’t get to the Forum as much as I used to but came here to look up something that “18DAI” mentioned to me elsewhere and saw your chart and wanted to congratulate you on your efforts. As it gets more filled in and tuned up, I hope (as others have suggested) that the powers that be on this site do include it as some sort of quick reference on this Board. For I am sure that it will help many of the one-time-researchers find what they need, help the more dedicated newcomers get sent along the right path, and help the more experienced collectors when they move into a new area or inquire about something different (for them).

As you invited suggestions and corrections, here are a few of mine. Please note that in my hurry here and in my attempt(s) to be brief, my tone might seem a bit brusque or dismissive. That is not my intention and if you look at some of my previous posts on either side of these Public and Non-Public Pages, it never has been.

1) My fast pass of the chart itself shows the intro date for the “915” as being in 1993 and it is printed in red. I assume that this is a result of an already-made correction or revision to whatever date you originally listed. This could be due to “Denver Dick’s” post here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Dick View Post
...By the way, I just re-read Roy's letter on my 915 and you might want to correct the production dates for that model. Roy's letter reads in part, "It became a catalog item in January of 1993. However, its availability was shortened as a result of the 1994 Clinton Administration ban on high capacity firearms which limited handguns to 10 round magazines for civilian sales. Smith & Wesson phased out the Model 915 during 1994 replacing it with the 10 shot version called the Model 910." So, I think you should indicate production dates for the Model 915 of 1993-1994. JMHO
At the risk of sounding rude (as stated above, that is not my intention), I respectfully submit that “Denver Dick” might be misreading the intention of Roy’s remarks in his re-reading of the unincluded Factory Letter about his (“Denver Dick’s”) own “915”. For while I won’t disagree that the gun “became a catalog item in January of 1993” that is more than likely because the catalog for 1993 came out in January and not because the gun wasn’t introduced earlier (in 1992) but too late to make the catalog in that year (1992).

I left the company well before the end of ’92 but I was one of the people who reviewed the original engineering sample of the 915 as it was being proposed and developed for sale. I believe it was introduced during the course of that year (1992) through the use of one of those two-sided, one-page spec sheets typical for that period in the company’s history. I would probably have proofed or contributed to that announcement but I don’t specifically remember doing so and my notes about those days are not within reach at the moment. Still, I would say that 1992 (the date also shown in the Supica & Nahas book) is the correct one.


2) There also seems to have been some confusion within the Chart and the thread as to that same gun’s configuration…

Quote:
Originally Posted by scwv67 View Post
I don't believe the 915 had a right side decock lever.
AND

Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
I've updated the list.

The SCSW states "right hand slide mounted manual decocking lever" for models 411 and 915, but the pictures in the catalog clearly indicate otherwise. I included it because I did not see any difference between the 410-411 and the 910-915, but DD's post explains that the model number change was for the 1994 capacity ban, so I have updated the list with that information...
… but there really shouldn’t be any confusion at all:

Just as I believe that “Denver Dick” might have been inadvertently misreading Roy’s comments about the date of his gun’s (this gun’s) introduction within the product line (discussed above), I politely submit that the misunderstanding here is about what Supica & Nahas are saying in regard to the gun’s features (here): “…The SCSW states "right hand slide mounted manual decocking lever" for models 411 and 915…

I don’t think that they are saying that the 915 has a “manual decocking lever” “mounted” on the “right” (“hand”) side of the “slide”

I believe they are saying that the gun has a “right hand” (as in right hand-oriented, right hand-intended, or just plain right-handed) slide mounted manual decocking lever", which means that when the frame is gripped by the right hand, the lever is on the left side of the slide so that it can be reached by the thumb and I think that is what the S&N photos reflect.

And for the record, we left the ambi (right side) lever off this Model as one of the ways to reduce its cost (for us and to the consumer), which was the whole purpose of this Model.


3) The other thing is that you (and numerous others within this site) refer to the 915 (and its sister model, the 411) as “Value Series” pistols. It might seem like a small point but they are NOT part of the Value Line. They were the forerunners of it. They were the first attempts to simply remove some of the costs from existing metal guns in order to become more price-competitive against the polymer competitor of the time.

My explanation of this can be found in two older posts of mine from 2012: The 915 only enjoyed 2 years of production,... and, more importantly, “Birds Away”: You are quite correct in your...

For whatever reason, people still seem to dispute this but if you don’t believe me (and I was working there at the time AND in a role that involved this concept), then look at the factory literature from the years involved and you will see that it bears me out.

I am not trying to feed my ego here or steal your thread but as I do hope your list will become a Site Reference for others to use (including those who will come here from outside that are not members) and take away information and terminology as “gospel”, I think that it is important any such “word” be as correct as possible so as to not spread false and/or incorrectly applied terminology into the general public where (in the world of the Internet) it will be considered accurate by those who will not look into things more closely.


4) This too might seem like nit-picking but as I truly hope that all of your hard work does become some sort of on-site reference, I see that you and others on this Board (in general) routinely refer to the 457D as being “made for the Chicago PD” (as stated by “GaryS” in this thread):

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
The only missing model I've seen so far is the 457D. That was the DAO version of the 457 made for the Chicago PD.
Although that seems to be the commonly held belief elsewhere on this site, I would sincerely suggest that anyone reading this post of mine, post copies of any factory letters they have to your thread in order to prove this.

As opposed to many Agencies and Departments across the country, CPD does not generally buy or supply guns for their people. I would think that if these guns were made for use by members of the Chicago Police Department (and not purchase by the Department itself, which seems unlikely), they would have generally been sold to someone like Ray O’Herron’s (S&W’s local LE Distributor who serviced CPD officers in their personal sales) or maybe Shore Galleries (actually the local Chicagoland Ruger LE Distributor but an S&W Dealer at the time as well so such guns might have been shipped to them or perhaps routed to them through another Distributor altogether).

Obviously overruns and factory inventory leftovers could have gone elsewhere (out of state and even to Commercial Distributors) so those two outlets might not be the only ones we see but I would be surprised to learn that the guns were sold directly to Chicago. Although again with Smith & Wesson, nothing should ever surprise us.

And things like that “skjos”, are a great side benefit to your chart; for just as others have contributed interesting things about the RSR guns (by the way, I was involved with them too and don’t consider them “Transitonals” but more on that some other time), I think that your putting all this stuff in one place and asking people to look it over, might actually make your chart a way of discovering not only errors but commonly held misconceptions, which can be discussed here and maybe cleared up as well.

Good work.
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  #73  
Old 01-10-2014, 01:07 PM
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Dave Nash.....wish you could find the time to visit this forum more often...the "B.T.D.T." kind of insight I find very interesting.....thankyou
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:26 PM
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Please allow me to second nocents motion Mr Nash!

To those unfamiliar with Mr Nash, what Mr Nash has forgotten about 3rd gen S&W pistols and S&W handguns in general, none of us will ever even know. He is an asset to this board and others. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:05 PM
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Mr. Nash:

Fantastic post with great information. I stand corrected on the date that Model 915 production began, and thank you.

I really appreciated your insight regarding the 915 and how it relates to the Value Line Series. I have always felt it was not part of the Value Line Series, but rather one of the forerunners of it. However, I was never really sure until now. Thanks, again.

And, please, visit the site more often.

Last edited by Denver Dick; 01-11-2014 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Typo repair
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Old 01-10-2014, 11:58 PM
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A lot of new very detailed information, thank you Mr. Nash.

I've tried my best to summarize all the new information.
411 changed to "Prelude to value series"
457D Chicago PD limited run noted as "(rumored)"
915 changed back to 1992-1994 and noted with "Prelude to value series"
5946 (RCMP) noted as stainless or melonite finish
5946 (-TSW) added to capture the RCMP models that have TSW frames but are marked as 5946
5967 added quantity of 500 based on wikipedia information.

I didn't really have room to put in the decocking lever information, but I now see in the SWSC the 915 states "right hand slide mounted decocking lever", and the 910 states "left side slide mounted manual safety/decocking lever", so they are basically the same anyhow.
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Old 01-11-2014, 10:34 AM
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Never ceases to amaze me the wealth of knowledge on this site. Thank you Mr. Nash!
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Old 01-12-2014, 02:38 AM
Slidemuzik Slidemuzik is offline
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First I must preface this by admitting I don't really have a handle on the definition of " third generation". I thought they were designated by a four digit model number and a flat front to the trigger guard, but apparently not always.

That being said, there have been no comments regarding the series I have found a passion for, the .22 models. I know many don't find .22s sexy enough to bother with, so I'll ask your indulgence.

I see 2213,2214, 2206, and 2206tgt. Why wouldn't the 422, 622, and 622vr be included?

Why was the "VR" (vented rib) on 622's only listed under the special features on the label and not a different suffix to the model number like was done with the 2206tgt? Besides the vented rib frame, the 622vr also had a rounded front to the trigger guard that was different than the flat front on all other models.

So I guess my questions are:
1. Should the list of "third gen" models include the 422, 622, and 622vr?
2. If not, why not? I'm confused on what defines a third gen.
3. I am not aware of any "dash" models in this series. Can anyone confirm or deny that?
Thanks for helping a novice collector understand this. If you're interested, I have some production numbers I got from S&W on a couple of these.

Last edited by Slidemuzik; 01-12-2014 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:08 AM
mafbloggerdanny mafbloggerdanny is offline
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sticky this thread already!
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  #80  
Old 01-12-2014, 09:35 AM
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This site has got to be the best for all things S&W.
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  #81  
Old 01-12-2014, 10:31 AM
skjos skjos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidemuzik View Post
First I must preface this by admitting I don't really have a handle on the definition of " third generation". I thought they were designated by a four digit model number and a flat front to the trigger guard, but apparently not always.

That being said, there have been no comments regarding the series I have found a passion for, the .22 models. I know many don't find .22s sexy enough to bother with, so I'll ask your indulgence.

I see 2213,2214, 2206, and 2206tgt. Why wouldn't the 422, 622, and 622vr be included?

Why was the "VR" (vented rib) on 622's only listed under the special features on the label and not a different suffix to the model number like was done with the 2206tgt? Besides the vented rib frame, the 622vr also had a rounded front to the trigger guard that was different than the flat front on all other models.

So I guess my questions are:
1. Should the list of "third gen" models include the 422, 622, and 622vr?
2. If not, why not? I'm confused on what defines a third gen.
3. I am not aware of any "dash" models in this series. Can anyone confirm or deny that?
Thanks for helping a novice collector understand this. If you're interested, I have some production numbers I got from S&W on a couple of these.
Really the question should be; should the “third gen list” include .22LR?

Based on SWSC, the 3rd gen was born from a series of mostly ergonomic improvements to the 2nd gen design; pistols that incorporated these improvements were designated by a new four-digit model number (with the exception of the value series). These improvements did not generally apply to the .22LR design.

I’m guessing that the 1987 introduction of the 422 tagged it with a 2nd gen model designation (first digit = material, last digit(s) = caliber) and the 622 followed suit when introduced in 1989. When S&W released a new all stainless model to the line in 1990 they simply chose to simply split from the 2nd gen model designation and use the 3rd gen designation. They probably could have named it the 622S to designate it was all stainless, but chose instead to name it 2206 (.22LR, standard model, all stainless) per the new 3rd gen model designation (see bottom of chart in OP). This is all conjecture on my part, but it seems to make sense. I’m sure someone more familiar with the internal workings of S&W can probably provide a better answer.

I simply included the four-digit .22LR models because they had a 3rd-gen model number designation, and excluded the three-digit .22LR models because they had a 2nd-gen numbering system.

Perhaps a new thread should be started with a poll:
Remove .22LR from the list
Only keep four-digit .22LR models on the list
Add three-digit .22LR models to the list
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  #82  
Old 01-12-2014, 01:09 PM
Richard McMillan Richard McMillan is offline
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Smith & Wesson in the fall of 1988 announce a new line of auto-loading hand guns. The new handguns were referred to by the factory as the "AIP" guns, which was the abbreviation for Automatic Improvement Program. The new models had a new series of four digit model numbers and a total of twenty-three changes from the old models. These were the pistols that were introduced as the Third Generation Smith & Wesson Auto-Loading Pistols. Seven new models were introduced, they were; 3904, 3906, 5904, 5906, 6904, 6906, and 4506. The significant changes which define the Third Generation Guns are; undercut front strap, rounded trigger, 3 dot sight system, polished feed ramp, dull finish, eliminated stainless steel springs, beveled magazine well, magazine capacity numbering, one piece grip, improved slide stop, improved double action pull, extended trigger guard, improved ambidextrous safety lever, and fixed barrel bushing. These were the significance changes at the time of introduction. Many were change again or revised with the introduction of new models, user feedback or production changes. However it does give a starting point for a definition of the third generation guns. Note, no reference to the four-digit model number .22s in the factory introduction.
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  #83  
Old 01-12-2014, 02:08 PM
Slidemuzik Slidemuzik is offline
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Thanks Richard. From that information I'd say the .22's would not be considered "third generation" guns, but merely shared the trigger guard styling of the third gen and the four digit model numbers on some models.

I guess a rose by any other name is still a rose.
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  #84  
Old 01-12-2014, 03:21 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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While the .22LR pistols do not really fit into the 3rd gen classification. I hate to drop the .22LR's from the list because they are cool in their own right. So what I've done is note the .22LR as "3rd gen era .22LR pistols" and added the 422, 622, and 622VR to the list, because they were produced in the primary era of the other 3rd gen models.
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:33 PM
Slidemuzik Slidemuzik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
While the .22LR pistols do not really fit into the 3rd gen classification. I hate to drop the .22LR's from the list because they are cool in their own right. So what I've done is note the .22LR as "3rd gen era .22LR pistols" and added the 422, 622, and 622VR to the list, because they were produced in the primary era of the other 3rd gen models.
Bravo. Agree with you on their coolness. I was rereading some older threads and had forgotten you are an owner. I think you had a 2206? Do you have others? Understand if you'd rather not elaborate. Love these pistols and appreciate when others give them attention.
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  #86  
Old 01-13-2014, 03:54 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidemuzik View Post
Bravo. Agree with you on their coolness. I was rereading some older threads and had forgotten you are an owner. I think you had a 2206? Do you have others? Understand if you'd rather not elaborate. Love these pistols and appreciate when others give them attention.
I had owned a 4.5" 422 Field model in the past, but it was used in a trade for a Ruger Mark II Competition Target (excellent pistol BTW). I currently have a 6" 2206, it is also excellent, but it has some problems extracting Agulia shells from the chamber. I've replaced the extractor and spring, but it still does not like this ammo, which is unfortunate because I bought 5000rds from the CMP.
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  #87  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:44 PM
k22fan k22fan is offline
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Default What are and aren’t 3rd gen pistols, simplified.

The 2nd and 3rd generation nomenclature was to market significant redesigns of the 1950s model 39 platform. Regardless of when they were introduced or how they were named, all pistols that are not direct descendants of the 39, 59 or 52 are not younger generations of those pistols. That rules out all 1911s, polymer framed pistols and .22s.

The most important design changes separating 3rd gens from 2nd were not machining the back strap as part of the frame to reduce trigger reach giving more leverage DA and press fitting barrel bushings to improve accuracy. As with all S&W engineering changes transitional pistols were assembled to use up parts inventory and I vaguely recall some 3rd gen features appeared first in 669 size pistols, but in general a wrap around one piece grip and non-removable barrel bushing = 3rd generation.

While I’m not a 3rd gen expert I’m well established as a forum curmudgeon, so until I’m contradicted by a certified master curmudgeon, that’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

Last edited by k22fan; 01-15-2014 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:31 AM
Big Cholla Big Cholla is offline
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skjos: My hat is off to you and your efforts to keep us S&W lovers informed. Keeping track of what goes on within S&W has to be harder than herding cats. I want a hard copy of this chart, say about 24"x36" to hang in my shop. :-) And, of course I want it in a computer file for reference while being comfortable in my office. I will be happy to pay for both or either. This is a significant contribution to our endeavor. I will bet big bucks that your efforts could lead to your publication of a great book. ........... Big Cholla
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:45 AM
skjos skjos is offline
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Updated the production dates.
I basically took the default SWSC production dates; unless there was no end date provided, in which case I pulled the end date from the 34th edition of the BBGV.
Added the 4053TSW pre-rail model (I missed this one when I added the other pre-rail models to the list).
Added 3914TSW production qty of 1060 based on BBGV.
Added 4596 production qty of 382 based on SWSC.

File will be shared as soon as I get the 3rd Gen Performance Center tab vetted, I should have that one ready for viewing/updates this weekend. Stay tuned.

Last edited by skjos; 01-16-2014 at 03:02 PM. Reason: 3914TSW edit, BBGV lied about the production date, need to update chart tonight
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  #90  
Old 01-27-2014, 03:43 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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Added another phantom model. This one is listed in the SWSC on page 276.

Model 3958

39 = 9MM, single stack
5 = compact, DAO
8 = Stainless slide, Carbon frame

The "8" does not fit the standard material designations so I guessed at it based on the remaining material combinations.
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  #91  
Old 01-27-2014, 03:57 PM
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I wonder if any were actually made and sold?



Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
Added another phantom model. This one is listed in the SWSC on page 276.

Model 3958

39 = 9MM, single stack
5 = compact, DAO
8 = Stainless slide, Carbon frame

The "8" does not fit the standard material designations so I guessed at it based on the remaining material combinations.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
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  #92  
Old 01-27-2014, 09:04 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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Quote:
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I wonder if any were actually made and sold?
A quick forum and web search came up empty. It could be an error in the SWSC (I've found quite a few of those), but it could also be a very small run of grail guns. I included it noting that none are known to exist.

I did another small update to square away all the RSR production quantities and serial numbers. Information was gathered from the SWSC and a handy production letter posted on this forum.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:38 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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A link has now been added to the bottom of the original post that will open the excel file. Feel free to save your own copy, but please keep sending updates so I can maintain the original file.

The excel file has two tabs, one for production 3rd gens and one for performance center models.
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  #94  
Old 08-30-2014, 07:36 PM
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List has been updated to include the 4590.
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  #95  
Old 12-17-2014, 03:04 PM
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Awesome list!! THANKS!!
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  #96  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:48 PM
jlo1510 jlo1510 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
5943 is in there.

List updated to show pre-rail models of 3913TSW, 3953TSW, 4013TSW, 4513TSW, and 4553TSW.

Making the list took a long time, but updating it goes pretty quickly.
Great effort and information. I have a 4013 I purchased in October of 1991. It has a 3.5 inch barrel, decocking levers on both sides, it's single stack. You have it listed as single action, but mine is double action. The serial number begins with
TVD65XX. Thanks
John
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:39 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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Quote:
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Great effort and information. I have a 4013 I purchased in October of 1991. It has a 3.5 inch barrel, decocking levers on both sides, it's single stack. You have it listed as single action, but mine is double action. The serial number begins with
TVD65XX. Thanks
John
It is listed as TDA with a single stack magazine.
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  #98  
Old 12-21-2014, 06:18 PM
jlo1510 jlo1510 is offline
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Quote:
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It is listed as TDA with a single stack magazine.
I stand corrected. Sorry.
John
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Old 12-22-2014, 01:33 AM
skjos skjos is offline
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No problem. I hope everyone takes a close look at the list, especially with models they own, so it can be updated and corrected if/as required.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P33v3 View Post
This is a classic and should be a sticky permanently. Great resource. Great work.
Agreed! Perfect timing. As someone pretty new to S&W I have been looking at a 3913 or similar model for carry this really helps sort them out.

Thanks!
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