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  #1  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:00 PM
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Default The Complete 3rd Gen Model List

I've tried my best to compile all the 3rd Generation model numbers onto one list. The information was pulled from the 3rd edition of the S&W Standard Catalog and 34th edition of the BBGV. I'm sure errors exist, so please send me corrections if you see an issue. Also, the list only covers production models, not Performance Center editions; and it only deals with major differences, if I listed all the minutiae the list would be a mile long.

Who will be first to collect them all?



http://www.skjos.net/sw/3rdgen/3rd%2...%20Numbers.xls

Last edited by skjos; 04-09-2015 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:30 PM
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Great job compiling this list. This had to be a lot of work. I would just delete the "NS" models from this list to clean it up a bit.

The guns that I notice missing are the 3914 DAO, 4516-2, 4506-2 and the CHP 4006TSW.

Thanks again for making this list!
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:42 PM
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Mention both versions of the 4013 - single-stack and double-stack (pre-TSW) ?


BTW, would you be willing to share the spreadsheet so we can have to copy to make notes on?
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:52 PM
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Nice work and thanks for your efforts......

Last edited by robin990; 12-23-2013 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:08 PM
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Additional models added and some corrections made.

I'll remove the NS models soon, I would like to see if someone actually has one with NS marked on the frame (I doubt it though).

I'll make the excel file available in the near future, I would like to have more people double check it first.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:14 PM
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I did not see the 469.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:39 PM
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@RUN2424 - I believe the 469 is 2nd gen, but the 4690 and 4691 RSR Transitionals are on the list.

@BLUEBELLYYANKEE - Is there something unique on the CHP 4006TSW as compared to the standard 4006TSW?
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:14 PM
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The only missing model I've seen so far is the 457D. That was the DAO version of the 457 made for the Chicago PD.
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post

@BLUEBELLYYANKEE - Is there something unique on the CHP 4006TSW as compared to the standard 4006TSW?
The difference is with the milled in rail instead of it being riveted. The grip has a "relief" milled into it near the plastic magazine base plate in order to get a "finger" on the magazine to facilitate it's removal, a feature that is surprisingly useful.

Here are the photos that show the difference.

The "NS" models will not be stamped as such on the frame, only the original S&W box will show "NS" on the label.
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The Complete 3rd Gen Model List-may-aug-13-708-jpg   The Complete 3rd Gen Model List-may-aug-13-709-jpg  

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  #10  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:43 PM
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Nice job, Skjos! Great resource.

I agree with the NS comment. Perhaps, make it a footnote?
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2013, 10:03 PM
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Like the CHP 4006. Have/do those ever come up for sale?
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2013, 10:50 PM
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That is right 469 second gen. Sorry about that.
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2013, 10:53 PM
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Deleted NS models, added 4006TSW CHP and 457D.
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  #14  
Old 12-23-2013, 12:56 AM
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Here are a few points to add to you list:

Model 4014 - 550 manufactured



Model 4526 - 1365 manufactured

Model 4576 - 1386 manufactured

The figures on the 45 pistols above are from a Roy Jinks letter on my 4576, but I don't have a photo of it to post right now.

HTH

Last edited by Denver Dick; 12-23-2013 at 01:01 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-23-2013, 01:07 AM
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Awesome, updated the production quantities of the 4014, 4526, and 4576.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
Awesome, updated the production quantities of the 4014, 4526, and 4576.
I've posted the 4014 figures a number of times and the 4576 numbers a couple of times, but I don't think I've ever posted the figures on the 4526 before. Actually, since I don't own a 4526 (not because I don't want to ), I don't think I paid much attention to the 4526 figures Roy mentioned in my 4576 letter before, until I re-read it just before I posted my early comments.

By the way, I just re-read Roy's letter on my 915 and you might want to correct the production dates for that model. Roy's letter reads in part, "It became a catalog item in January of 1993. However, its availability was shortened as a result of the 1994 Clinton Administration ban on high capacity firearms which limited handguns to 10 round magazines for civilian sales. Smith & Wesson phased out the Model 915 during 1994 replacing it with the 10 shot version called the Model 910." So, I think you should indicate production dates for the Model 915 of 1993-1994. JMHO
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:15 AM
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Never heard of a 4506-2. What is the source for that?

I believe the ONLY three factory acknowledged models for the 4506 were the 4506, the 4506-1 and the 4506-3, sometimes labeled "Revision 4".

Someone correct me if I am wrong please.
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  #18  
Old 12-23-2013, 04:39 AM
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Default 4053TSW

Wasn't the 4053TSW a double stack magazine, like the 4056TSW?
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2013, 09:02 AM
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I don't believe the 915 had a right side decock lever.
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2013, 11:09 AM
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I've updated the list.

The SCSW states "right hand slide mounted manual decocking lever" for models 411 and 915, but the pictures in the catalog clearly indicate otherwise. I included it because I did not see any difference between the 410-411 and the 910-915, but DD's post explains that the model number change was for the 1994 capacity ban, so I have updated the list with that information.

The SCSW only lists the 4506 and 4506-1, I updated the list with "dash 3" information from a 18DAI post, and removed the -2 (I could find any info on it).

The SCSW says "9-round single stack magazine" for the 4053TSW, but it seems like all the 9rd compact .40's are double stacks, so its been switched to double.

Last edited by skjos; 12-23-2013 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:00 PM
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Nice list. I don't know if you're interested in listing them as such, but there are two versions of the 3913/3953TSW. The early ones have no rail and seven, not eight, round magazines. I think, but I'd have to look at the SCSW to verify, that the same goes for the 4513TSW and it's DAO counterpart as well.

Did you use Excel to make this? If so, would you be willing to send the .xls sheet along?
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:19 PM
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I bucketed the models with two TSW versions into one line, noting that a fitted frame rail was possible. I did update the magazine quantities to show the two versions capacity. Thanks

I'll get the file out in the near future, after the corrections slow down.

Last edited by skjos; 12-23-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-23-2013, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
I'll get the file out in the near future, after the corrections slow down.
Thanks. It will come in handy for third generation geeks. Like me!
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:46 PM
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Default Great work......

It may be there, but I don't see the 5943, Stainless slide/Alum. alloy frame DAO
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
I bucketed the models with two TSW versions into one line, noting that a fitted frame rail was possible. I did update the magazine quantities to show the two versions capacity. Thanks

I'll get the file out in the near future, after the corrections slow down.
Oh, I didn't catch the pre-rail issue. I have a 3913TSW pre-rail which, based on serial number, was manufactured in 1999. It's a great pistol and shoots well (see photo below). It should be listed as a separate model because the frame is actually cut so that the seven round magazine with its special magazine base fits flush (see photo). It also works well with the standard 8rd magazine as well. You will note in the 3rd Edition that the TSW with the cut frame was called "Tactical" and produced from 1997-1999. The TSW with the rail and no cut frame was called "9 Tactical Smith & Wesson" and produced from 2000 to Date(?).

You'll probably being getting comments on the list for awhile, so I get that you don't want to be revising every couple of hours.

FWIW

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Old 12-23-2013, 07:04 PM
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5943 is in there.

List updated to show pre-rail models of 3913TSW, 3953TSW, 4013TSW, 4513TSW, and 4553TSW.

Making the list took a long time, but updating it goes pretty quickly.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:57 PM
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That is a great list and will be very helpful. Perhaps you'll find useful this list I put together when I was trying to figure out the frame sizes. I ended up going through all the parts lists on the S&W site and sorting out which models used the same (Delrin) grips.

Thanks again for the list.


Sub Compact Frame, Single Stack

9mm,
CS9

.40 & .45 cal
CS40, CS45

Compact Frame, Single Stack

9mm
3904, 3906, 3944, 3946, 909, 3953TSW, 3913, 3914, 3914DAO, 3953, 3954, 908

.40 & 45 cal
4513TSW, 4553TSW, 4013, 4014, 4053, 4054, 4516, 4556, 457

Compact Frame, Double Stack

9mm & .40 cal
4013TSW, 4053TSW, 4056TSW, 6904, 6906, 6944, 6946
6924, 6926 (frame mounted decocker)

Large Frame, Single Stack

.45 cal & 10 mm
4563TSW, 4566TSW, 4583TSW, 4586TSW, 4505, 4567, 1006, 1066, 1086, 4506, 4546, 4566, 4586, 4596
1026, 1076, 4526, 4576 (frame mounted decocker)
4536 (frame mounted decocker)

Large Frame, Double Stack

9mm & .40 cal (LG359)
4006CHP, 4003TSW, 4006TSW, 4043TSW, 4046TSW, 410, 4003, 4004, 4006, 4043, 4044, 4046, 411, 5903, 5903SSV, 5904, 5906, 5943, 5943SSV, 5944, 5946, 5967, 5945RCMP, 5903TSW, 5906TSW, 5943TSW, 5946TSW, 910, 915, Super9
4026, 5923,
5924, 5926 (frame mounted decocker)
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:35 PM
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I have a suspicion that some of those don't actually exist. I know it doesn't make sense to have parts for guns that don't exist, but I think it's the case. About a year ago I saw the 3944/46 on the parts list and asked if anyone had ever heard or seen of one. No one had. There isn't a word in the SCSW about them either. Those would have been full size, single stack, DAO only with alloy or stainless frames.

There may or may not be other phantom guns on your list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill_Country View Post
That is a great list and will be very helpful. Perhaps you'll find useful this list I put together when I was trying to figure out the frame sizes. I ended up going through all the parts lists on the S&W site and sorting out which models used the same (Delrin) grips.

Thanks again for the list.


Sub Compact Frame, Single Stack

9mm,
CS9

.40 & .45 cal
CS40, CS45

Compact Frame, Single Stack

9mm
3904, 3906, 3944, 3946, 909, 3953TSW, 3913, 3914, 3914DAO, 3953, 3954, 908

.40 & 45 cal
4513TSW, 4553TSW, 4013, 4014, 4053, 4054, 4516, 4556, 457

Compact Frame, Double Stack

9mm & .40 cal
4013TSW, 4053TSW, 4056TSW, 6904, 6906, 6944, 6946
6924, 6926 (frame mounted decocker)

Large Frame, Single Stack

.45 cal & 10 mm
4563TSW, 4566TSW, 4583TSW, 4586TSW, 4505, 4567, 1006, 1066, 1086, 4506, 4546, 4566, 4586, 4596
1026, 1076, 4526, 4576 (frame mounted decocker)
4536 (frame mounted decocker)

Large Frame, Double Stack

9mm & .40 cal (LG359)
4006CHP, 4003TSW, 4006TSW, 4043TSW, 4046TSW, 410, 4003, 4004, 4006, 4043, 4044, 4046, 411, 5903, 5903SSV, 5904, 5906, 5943, 5943SSV, 5944, 5946, 5967, 5945RCMP, 5903TSW, 5906TSW, 5943TSW, 5946TSW, 910, 915, Super9
4026, 5923,
5924, 5926 (frame mounted decocker)
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:00 PM
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Don't forget the RSR 6453 and 6454. They do exist in probably numbers less than 100 and as few as single digits.

Awesome list, that took some time. Had to post so I could refer back to it.

Thank you.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
I have a suspicion that some of those don't actually exist. I know it doesn't make sense to have parts for guns that don't exist, but I think it's the case. About a year ago I saw the 3944/46 on the parts list and asked if anyone had ever heard or seen of one. No one had. There isn't a word in the SCSW about them either. Those would have been full size, single stack, DAO only with alloy or stainless frames.

There may or may not be other phantom guns on your list.
Gary - I don't know if they exist, but S&W had a parts list on their website for those models when I did that list. That was good enough for me. <G>

The fact that there are models no one has seen is why we need a list to keep up with our third gens.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dacoontz View Post
Don't forget the RSR 6453 and 6454. They do exist in probably numbers less than 100 and as few as single digits.
What are the unique features of the 6453 and 6454, they are not listed in the SWSC?

I looked around on the forum and it looks like the 6453 had a white dot front sight and an adjustable rear, and the 6454 had a white dot front sight and novak rear.

I added them to the list.

Last edited by skjos; 12-23-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:49 PM
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There was also a 3914TSW. It was like the later version of the 3913TSW.

Thanks for putting this together!
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:26 AM
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My hat is off to you, this is quite an undertaking.

I didn't consult my SCSW, but weren't there non-rail 4563s & 4583s?

Again, someone jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:48 AM
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That may be a useful list to refer back to. I’m mostly posting so I can find it again but I felt obligated to nit-pick it somehow to justify this reply.

4516-3s exist. Only dash 1s used a single recoil spring. The other dashes used double springs around a smaller diameter rod requiring a smaller hole in the front of the slide. Dash 2s reverted to the double spring. In addition to less lightening cuts which you described dash 1s had reconfigured feed ramps to improve reliability. As far as I know the dash 2 did nothing to improve reliability.

An important change in manufacturing that was not model number specific is worth adding as a foot note. Early DAO 3rd gens used frames and slides that were longer in the rear than TDAs. Latter the same frame and slide were used for both DAO and TDA variations by changing parts.

The quantity of each of the six 10 MM models manufactured is included in historical letter for 10 MMs so don’t finalize your list until someone posts them.

Last edited by k22fan; 12-26-2013 at 11:52 PM.
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  #35  
Old 12-24-2013, 12:50 AM
skjos skjos is offline
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Added the 3914TSW.

The SCSW only listed 4563TSW and 4583TSW.
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  #36  
Old 12-24-2013, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hill_Country View Post
Gary - I don't know if they exist, but S&W had a parts list on their website for those models when I did that list. That was good enough for me. <G>

The fact that there are models no one has seen is why we need a list to keep up with our third gens.
*
FWIW, the 28-1 was a unicorn, believed to be purely theoretical until a few weeks ago when ONE finally surfaced. Could be true of these, too.

Other issue: are there photos of the 6924/6926 and 6944/6946?
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  #37  
Old 12-24-2013, 01:42 AM
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Ye gads! What a list. Truely the gun of the week in those days. I have one in each of the four calibers. I think I'll end my collection right there.
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  #38  
Old 12-24-2013, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skjos View Post
What are the unique features of the 6453 and 6454, they are not listed in the SWSC?

I looked around on the forum and it looks like the 6453 had a white dot front sight and an adjustable rear, and the 6454 had a white dot front sight and novak rear.

I added them to the list.
You have the right features on the two models. From a factory letter the production numbers of the 6450 are 92 units, the 6453 are 85 units, and the 6454 are 10 units.

The only other thing to add is that the 6451 has a red ramp front sight and rear fixed two white dot sight that is more like a blade and not a novak sight.

EDIT: Good on you, you had all that other info already. Nice!!!
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  #39  
Old 12-24-2013, 03:54 AM
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Great reference.I suggest you update the production years column. Your data must have been from 2005 or so.
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Old 12-24-2013, 06:24 AM
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Corrected post

Last edited by pmosley; 12-24-2013 at 06:27 AM.
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  #41  
Old 12-24-2013, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M. View Post
*
FWIW, the 28-1 was a unicorn, believed to be purely theoretical until a few weeks ago when ONE finally surfaced. Could be true of these, too.

Other issue: are there photos of the 6924/6926 and 6944/6946?

6944 coming up

SKJOS - thank you for this output. Great job.


Last edited by pmosley; 12-24-2013 at 11:52 AM.
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  #42  
Old 12-24-2013, 11:26 AM
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Added the 4516 (-3) to the list. I'm trying to limit the amount of detail to keep the list manageable, so only the more significant changes are shown between the dash variants.

Added phantom models from S&W parts list 3944, 3946, and 5923.

DAO model change added to the bottom of the list.

My info comes from the SWSC and the 27th BBGV, both of which are copyright 2006. Hopefully the latest BBGV will under the tree this year.

Last edited by skjos; 12-24-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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  #43  
Old 12-24-2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
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You'll probably being getting comments on the list for awhile, so I get that you don't want to be revising every couple of hours.
Seeeeeeeee . . .
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  #44  
Old 12-25-2013, 01:45 AM
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How much do you plan to charge per copy when this is finished?
Awesome undertaking. I will be very interested in a copy when it is finished.
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  #45  
Old 12-25-2013, 02:18 AM
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Since you mention the CHP variation of the 4006TSW... how about the CHP variation of the 4006? It differs from the standard 4006 in that it has a bobbed hammer and the trigger free play spring is omitted from the trigger draw bar, and is shown in the S&W parts listing as a 4006CHP.

The California State Park rangers were also issued the 4006CHP, mine is the one mentioned in the S&WCA 3rd Ed on page 304.
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Last edited by Gunhacker; 12-25-2013 at 04:46 AM.
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  #46  
Old 12-25-2013, 02:35 AM
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skjos:

I was looking at some of the information in your list on 4516 pistols. In my factory letters from Roy Jinks in 2007 regarding both my 4516-1 and 4516-2, Roy states:

Quote:
This compact model was introduced in December of 1988 and was given the Model designation of Model 4516. This pistol featured a 3.5 inch barrel, a lightened frame, .260 inch wide bobbed hammer, seven shot magazine, with an overall length of 7 1/8 inch, and weight of 34 oz. In 1989 the factory became concerned with the reduced size weight slide and a heavier slide was made for this model changing the weight to 34.5 oz. This heavier slide model was called the Model 4516-1. In late 1992, the Model 4516-1 was temporarily discontinued to allow the engineers to develop an improved magazine and extractor. It was reintroduced in December 1993 with these improvements as well as a broached through breech face and widened barrel hood. When reintroduced it was called the Model 4516-2. It remained in production until the summer of 1997 when it was discontinued and replaced with the new compact .45 caliber Model 4513TSW
Based on Roy's letter it appears the production dates for the 4516 should be 1988-89, the 4516-1 should be 1989-92, and the 4516-2 should be 1993-97. Also, it appears the 4516 came with dual recoil springs, 4516-1 originally came with a single recoil spring, and the 4516-2 came with the dual recoil spring set up.

HTH

Last edited by Denver Dick; 01-03-2014 at 12:18 AM. Reason: To clarify the 4516 (no dash) recoil spring issue.
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  #47  
Old 12-25-2013, 10:20 AM
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I've never heard of a non-TSW 4013 double stack. I believe the pre-TSW was only available single stack. Then, as you have indicated, there were two versions of the double-stack TSW; one without a rail and one with a rail. I could be wrong but......
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  #48  
Old 12-25-2013, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhacker View Post
Since you mention the CHP variation of the 4006TSW... how about the CHP variation of the 4006? It differs from the standard 4006 in that it has a bobbed hammer and the trigger free play spring is omitted from the trigger draw bar, and is shown in the S&W parts listing as a 4006CHP.

The California State Park rangers were also issued the 4006CHP, mine is the one mentioned in the S&WCA 3rd Ed on page 304.
I kinda wish I'd scooped on of those up awhile back when Robertson's had a few.
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  #49  
Old 12-26-2013, 11:24 AM
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DD,
I updated the production dates for the 4516.
Thread "4516 vs. 4516-1 vs. 4516-2" states a dual recoil spring for the no-dash, so I've changed the comment to "may have single or dual recoil spring" to cover both instances. Your historically letter wouldn't happen to have production numbers would it?

GH,
Added the CHP 4006; while its features are not really that unique, it is listed as a separate model in the S&W parts list.

Now if someone can tell me what the heck a M5946RCMP is?
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  #50  
Old 12-26-2013, 11:48 AM
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This is a classic and should be a sticky permanently. Great resource. Great work.
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