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  #51  
Old 01-12-2015, 07:02 PM
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Default My new 4516!

18DAI, thank you for a great thread! Last week I sold a S&W model 19-5 that was a limited run for the Connecticut State Police in near mint condition and used some of the money to purchase a S&W 4516 no dash at my LGS. It was an impulse buy as I had been looking for an all stainless, single column, 9mm for concealed carry. When I saw this 4516 I thought "Why settle for less?". It had a few scratches and shiny rub spots from holster use, but appeared seldom fired. It came with two yellow mags and one red mag. I just bought 3 more black mags from a Forum member. I have not shot it yet as the temps are in the 20's or less. I did some rubbing with very light sandpaper and a no name o plastic pad. It now looks much better. Holsters are pretty much non existent, but I have several that fit a Sig 228 and they fit like a glove! Thank you for all the great information! I appreciate the education!
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Old 01-13-2015, 10:04 PM
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Congrats on your new 4516 slowburninsteve!

Thanks for the kind words too. I have been meaning to wrap up this thread and will try to do so in the near future.

Please let us know how your 4516 no dash performs. I suspect it will mirror my experience. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:19 PM
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"Is that a Sig?" LOL. No, but it's every bit as good as one.
"That's heavy." Another LOL. I hear that about my 4566 and Star M45 Firestar. Yep. They also don't beat your hand up when you shoot them.
Newton's laws of physics.

I'm thinking about carrying my 4566 after I run some more ammo through it and get a few more spare mags.

Shooting outdoors in 19 degree weather?
That wasn't a test of the gun's endurance.
That was a test of YOUR endurance.
I know that wasn't much fun. I did a similar thing in the mid 1990s.
Difference was, I was shooting with friends and nobody was willing to wimp out.
Of course, I was wearing Peltor ear muffs and a ski mask.. My buddies wore ear plugs.
I looked funny, but my face/head/ears were warm.
We finally quit when the snowstorm obscured the target.
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  #54  
Old 01-29-2015, 11:26 AM
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Default Wrapping this "test" up.

Due to unforseen professional and personal........disasters, I did not get to shoot this 4516 ND as much as I had anticipated in the past year.

I did shoot 60 more rounds of Federal 230 grain ball through it this past October. The total round count I fired through it was 815 for the year.

The one malfunction was mag related. If we count the probable 500 rounds through this "NIB" 4516 no dash, prior to me getting hold of it, thats around 1300 rounds with one failure. I can live with that.

So, in summation, I find the 4516 ND to be a reliable and accurate little 45. Is the no dash 4516 a problematic model? Not in my experience and that of many others whos opinions and experience I trust.

That is not to say that there were not individual problematic examples. If there had not been problematic examples I don't think S&W would have ceased production of the 4516 ND at around 5000 units and redesigned it to 4516-1 specifications.

I do think that the 4516 no dash has aquired a bum rap on the internet gunboards for reliability, IMO. Mostly due to posts from folks who evidently had little experience shooting 45 caliber pistols in general and compact 45's in particular. I base that on various statements in those posts, such as; "I have never shot such a small 45...." "I got my first 45 pistol! Its a S&W 4516...." "...having only shot 9mm previously.." et al.

That is not a slight or slam on those folks. They honestly reported what happened to them. I only point it out due to the fact that their inexperience with small 45 pistols MAY have been a factor in the malfunction of their 4516 no dash.

Maintenance, particularly spring maintenance and lubrication are other factors effecting small 45 pistol reliability. You must be dilligent in changing out your recoil spring AND MAG springs at proper intervals. What is the proper interval? That depends.

Are you simply shooting low powered roll your owns? WWB? Or are you running 100 rounds of Corbon or Ranger SXT every range session? Do you shoot once a year or several times a month?

I would defer to expert members like Fastbolt, CALREB and others for a difinitive answer to this question. As to what I do, I change the recoil springs in my compact 45 carry guns every 2500 to 3000 rounds - UNLESS I shoot some prolonged sessions (300 to 500 rounds) in extreme heat. If the guns recoil spring round count is getting high and I've shot it in extreme heat, I measure the springs against a brand new set and if I see a 1/4 inch set to them, I replace them.

Mag springs.......I change those out every three years or so. Thats my 3 carry mags. Not my range mags. The range mags I only replace if/when I encounter a malfunction. Thats what I do. Your mileage may and probably should vary.

These days all my full sized 45's are in storage. My 4516-3, 3914NL and 4513TSW V1 are my only guns in the safe. The 3914NL getting carried the most. (in the EXCELLENT IWB holster sent me by member nocents. THANY YOU nocents! ) But my 4516-3 is getting shot the most.

While I find the 4516 ND to be the lightest and thinest of the 3rd gen compact 45's, I just don't enjoy shooting it as much as I do the heavier and chunkier 4516-3. Go figure. I do love carrying the no dash more. Especially IWB.

So those are my findings after a year with the 4516 ND. Take them for what they are. They are worth exactly what you paid for them. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:44 PM
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Top notch info and excellent summation.
Looking forward to many more.
Keep writing, 18!

Thanks.
John
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  #56  
Old 01-30-2015, 01:21 AM
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18, perhaps you know quite a few of us folks have been stalking you as you progressed through life with 4516. Through all of your trials and tribulations over the last year, you have been a cheerleader for the proponents of this firearm, and a dissuader of the naysayers. I would love to find one locally, but no luck so far. I can not bring one into CA. I shall keep looking....

Thanks, 18DAI.....and let the next saga begin.
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Old 01-30-2015, 09:17 AM
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I always enjoy reading your posts, 18, and I'm sorry to hear of those "disasters" during the past year. (Doesn't seem possible it's been a year since you started the thread about the no-dash, does it?)

Hope things are looking up and that there's no long term damage involved. And, that you'll stick around and keep educating us on Third Gens.
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:59 AM
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Default Postscript

I recently met the previous owner of my 4516 no dash. Turns out I have known him, and purchased other guns from him for going on 33 years!

He was the manager of a local firearms shop where I did a lot of business in the 80's and 90's. Same shop that my friend Ken runs now. They are still a S&W dealer although they don't stock the revolvers just the m&p pistols.

We were doing the paperwork on a recent purchase I made and the topic of 4516's came up. Once I confirmed the purchase date, he told me that it was his gun. He told me that he had purchased it new in box back around 89 or 90. He shot one box of ammo through it.

Her told me that while it was reliable right out of the box and he experienced no malfunctions, it didn't group very well. So, being a S&W dealer and selling many firearms he contacted a rep and had it sent back to S&W.

He said he recalled that S&W had replaced the barrel and "....did something else.." that he could not recall. I asked if it was guide rod replacement and he said it may have been but he could not remember. He said when it came back from S&W he had stuck it in his safe and not shot it again. Being he is involved collecting expensive handguns from the past, he sold it on consignment and I'd gotten it.

I told him about my test of the gun and he was not surprised. He stated that he had sold many examples of the 4516 including a large number of no dash guns. He could not recall sending back very many at all. "Great little 45's that never received the recognition they should have." he told me. I agree. Regards 18DAI
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:44 PM
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This is the first I have seen of this thread and want to comment specifically on your most recent post above mine, that you updated today.

It's hard to explain the attachment I have to most of my handguns and finding old information on a handgun I own now is, to me, like finding money in an old coat pocket. LOTS of money!

I would so much love to read or hear the tales my handguns could tell. I've been in the process of writing down my own thoughts, experiences and histories of my handguns. Don't know why I get so attached to them, but it is true.

To be able to have a conversation with a previous owner of some some of my favorites would be a terrific experience.
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:42 PM
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Default UPDATE

I have been shooting the 4516 no dash periodically over the last two years so I thought I would update my thread, indeed making it a long term evaluation.

I took a job as a firearms instructor, part time, a little over a year ago. Initially to teach revolvers to new shooters, as the staff had little to no experience with them and no interest. It has since evolved that I am the go to instructor for the compact 45 shooters, given the large amount of trigger time I have behind compact and sub compact 45s.

The 4516 no dash has been the perfect teaching vehicle for this class of gun. It is slightly heavy, which helps mitigate felt recoil and enable faster follow up shots than say a Glock 36. The 4516 no dash is also very tolerant of newshooter issues such as limp wristing.

So mine has gotten a lot of range time over the intervening two years. The round count sits at just over 2850. With only the one mag related malfunction to date. I do keep it scrupulously clean and lubed with TW25b. I just changed the recoil springs this past weekend. So now it is on its second set.

The 4516 no dash has some holster wear and a couple of scrapes and dings from handling and use. But the satin stainless finish has held up extremely well. It is still a very good looking pistol.

Mine no longer wears the Hogue grips. I have a factory Delrin grip with a "Gripper" textured rubber grip sleeve over it. I find this gives me the best combination of control and concealability.

The little 4516 no dash is still extremely accurate. YesterdayI worked the local indoor range. After closing the owner asked if Id like to shoot a little competition with him. This is something he and I have done for going on 30 years. He is an excellent shot. Always has been and even with his advanced age and health issues he still shoots better than most. He had his favorite pistol on. A Kimber Custom Shop Ultra. From the original batch. A 3 inch 1911 for those who may be unfamiliar. He had 7 rounds of 230 match grade ammo that I gave him and I had the same. He elected to choose a 3 inch Shoot-N-Cee target at 25 yards for our "match". He scored three out of seven with a 4 inch group overall. I scored two out of seven with a 4 inch group. As he will be retiring next month I was very pleased to loose to such a fine shot, fine gentleman and good friend. I wish him well and will miss him and our competitions.

I will keep using this 4516 no dash. More for range work and teaching than for carry on my own time, only due to my affinity for the 4513TSW and new to me CS45. But I will periodically update the round count here for those who may be interested and will immediatly report any stoppages or problems. Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-28-2017, 03:14 PM
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I would enjoy hearing your views on your CS45. A LGS has one for $429. Thanks.

Last edited by btr4me; 02-28-2017 at 03:15 PM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:43 AM
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Default Another hybrid S&W ...

My 4516-2 has proven to be a good shooter but I just bought a 457 mostly for the alloy frame to create a carry .45 that's a bit lighter.



The slide from the 457 is being sent to BMCM for him to do his magic on it with night sights and some barrel work.

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Old 10-04-2018, 09:08 AM
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Update to my long range 4516 no dash "test". Round count is now 3114. Hogue grips are back on the gun. And it is in my holster today.

I have not shot or carried it much over the last two years. My CS45 and CS9 doing the majority of the for serious purpose work.

But I have used it several times to teach new shooters the techniques to shooting compact 45 carry guns. Every one of them viewed it favorably and several went on to search out their own 4516 no dash. And they reported back that theirs shot as well and troublefree as mine does.

I have noticed that the prices on the no dash guns has risen by a couple of hundred dollars over the last few years. I didnt pay too much. I just bought too soon.

Mine will be back in my holster over the next few months as the weather turns cooler. As the lightest and thinnest of the 3rd gen 45s it is always a joy to carry. Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-10-2021, 03:12 PM
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Since I did say this was a "long term test", why not another update?

Round count......around 3700 and change. I really don't bother keeping track anymore. The 4516 no dash is dead nuts reliable, in my experience. I have carried it under many different circumstances and shot many different loads in it. It just runs. And runs well. And very few folks are going to run that amount of rounds through ANY pistol. Especially during the current stupidity in ammo pricing and avaiability. Good thing I started this when I did. Without the "generosity" of the State providing me ammo, the round count wouldn't be as high as it is.

Still no malfunctions, other than the one noted with the bad mag. As I have gone back to instructing at the local range, as well as working there a few days a week, the 4516 ND is back on my person a few times a month. I have a DeSantis Nemesis holster that I use IWB to carry it. A Nexbelt gunbelt makes that a comfortable and secure option.

I also have many OWB holster options too. But the Don Hume JIT slide remains a favorite.

Anyways, I remain VERY satisfied with the 4516 ND. I have more than got my money out of it and continue to use and enjoy it. Still as accurate and reliable as when I originally purchased it. And through proper maintanence, replacing recoil springs every 3K and keeping TW25b grease on the rails, it displays very little wear. A well made pistol. And still an overlooked 45 carry gun. The thinnest and lightest of the all steel 3rd gen 45s. Regards 18DAI
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