well after trying to track down the dual nested recoil springs without much luck for a long time...about a month ago I did score 2 sets of the illusive spring combo.....but after reading BMCM's report on his success with the IMSI Glock flat wire spring I thought ......I hadn't seen any post where anyone else had tried it...SOOO...I order 2 of the 20# and 1 of the 18#and free shipping about 22 bucks....they came in about 3 days....put the 20# spring in over the weekend.....I didn't think it was going to fit at first so I PM'd BMCM about my difficulties and he said the first time they are tough to install ....and...give me a quick tutorial on spring stacking in a way that even I could understand ......to the range today and after 100 rounds of a combo of WWB,Federal,and Aguilla 230 gr. hardball ...I had ZERO malfunctions.....my 4516-2 likes Glock parts...though it's just a spring....after I got home I inspected the internals and seen NO indication of any ill affects of using the flat wire spring......MY feeling is I am not going to fret over the lack of dual nested springs....AND...a big THANKS to BMCM for "engineering" this work around.....pics with the IMSI flat wire next to a brand new dual nested........and to think we get all this expertise for free

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witty signature goes here

I'm also running BMCM's spring set up in my 4516-1 with a CHP guide rod he milled for me. I also started with the 20 LB set up. My dad and I shot it awhile back and he seemed to get a jam periodically. So I have an 18 LB installed now and my dad and I have a range trip scheduled this Friday so I will report back after that.

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

I got some (18# & 20#) for my 4013 & 4056TSW too but won't get to the range for a couple more days...will update then.

The 20# is quit hard to get on the first time & the flat spring edges are rough on the "tenders". They do loose a bit of their length & are a little easier the next time. The 18# is no problem to get on.

Jut a quick FYI but numrich has the 4516 inner/outer recoil springs in stock. Just ordered both for my 4513TSW, which I hope is the same. Shipping confirmation moments ago.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...097.htm?page=1

Will this work for the 457 as well?

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Can open, worms everywhere.

if the 457 has the dual nested spring and I am pretty sure it does.....it should work...but someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in.....I'm hoarding back my new factory springs and leave the flat wire spring in....it was fun yesterday when the range officer asked me "how things were going?" ........and I told him I was testing Glock parts in my S&W

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witty signature goes here

Thanks. I don't carry my 457 often, but I want to be consistent in changing out springs on used guns.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Yup. you've got a .236" steel guiderod in there, it'll run just fine.
I'd start with an 18# then adjust if necessary.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

Thank you very much.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Many thanks to BMCM for solving this hardware issue!

And thank you nocents for test driving the replacement springs!

I will be ordering an 18lb spring to try in my PC Shorty 45 MKII.

Thanks again! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Just to recap for those of us who are slow , we are taking about the 18 and 20 pound recoil springs that fit the full-sized Glocks such as the model 17 and 21, correct?
I have a 4513 Tactical and 457 awaiting the reply.

EDIT: I found the original thread, or at least a thread with more info:

4516-2 Spare Springs Source?

The springs for the compact Glock 23 are the ones to look for.

Thanks again for the research!

Are these flat wire springs from 'IMSI' or 'ISMI' ?
I've been looking and ISMI doesn't say if they are flat and I can't find IMSI anywhere.
I'm looking to put them in a CS45 and CS9.
They use flat springs and I assume they don't have enough room for round wire springs.

my apologies ......the manufacturer is ISMI....I used the link that BMCM used for NDZ Performance...ISMI Glock Compact 20lb Recoil Spring G19,23,25,32,38 .....I didn't check to see if you can buy factory direct

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witty signature goes here

Yup, this is the manufacturer, Their website is kinda sparse but they do make terrific springs:
Integrated Systems Management Inc.

I've purchased some springs direct from I.S.M.I.

I've also acquired some from these guys.
Lone Wolf Distributors - Products - Recoil Springs
And these guys.
Recoil Springs

No doubt there are several other vendors out there, these are merely the ones I've done business with.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

Got to the range today & punched some paper holes. Took the 4056TSW (first outing since purchased) with a 18# ISMI spring & the 4013 (R4) with a 20# ISMI spring. I figured I'd do it this way since I can't really swap springs at the range.

Ran an assortment of loads thru them: 170gr LSWC with Unique/5.5gr, Zero 165gr JHP with P-P/6.8 & 7.5gr, also L-S/7.5 & 8.3gr, & Nosler 180gr JHP with L-S/7.5gr.

It's hard to tell exactly how far the brass would go, uninterrupted, when you're in a booth like this but the 4056 definitely needed more spring as I lost probably half the brass I shot due to ricochets off the wall & forward of the firing line. Even the LSWC brass seemed to have good velocity, (no frame slams with any loads) so before next trip I'll put a 20# in to try it.

The 4013, having a larger/heavier(*) slide did much better with the 20#. Lost far less with it because of "bad" ricochets. This little big guy just shoots good for me.

Both guns ran fine though. Just one or two of the LSWCs gave a jam but that kinda seems to be normal with them, for some reason (bullet shape?). The JHPs ran smoothly. I'll probably try a 22# in the 4013, just for grins, since I already bought one.

So from what I see, these are a good replacement for the "hard to find" duals. Thanks again to BMCM for doing the legwork & sharing it with us.

PS: (*) I weighed the slide/bbl. on these.
They are: 4056TSW = 15oz. and 4013(R4) = 17oz.

I'm still a little slow with regards to this so....the Glock 23 spring will work in the 4513TSW?

Thanks for the clarification.
And thanks for the links.

Now I've got some work to do!

Well yes and no.

No as in these are not springs made by Glock therefore there will be no actual "Glock" contamination of our fine S&W pistols.

And Yes as in these springs are manufactured by I.S.M.I who makes springs for a great number of different guns. It just so happens that the springs they manufacture for the compact Glock aftermarket are the correct size and weight to fit and operate in a compact S&W guns in lieu of the nested spring set. They also work quite well in various short barrel 1911's given a suitable guiderod.

When I was searching for an alternate spring for my 4516-1 a couple years ago I was quite aware that I.S.M.I was making flawire springs for a bunch of different guns and that Wilson and EGW were aslo starting to market flatwire setups for 1911 pattern guns.

I though what else does I.S.M.I make that would be commonly available most anywhere. Not something custom ordered but a regular line/stock item that would meet my needs.

Like it or not, Glocks are here to stay and are nearly ubiquitous in LE and thus have become pretty popular with civilians. So, I turned my focus towards what I.S.M.I makes for Glocks that would; 1. fit in the gun and 2. be the correct size/weight rating for my project. I sourced some springs in a few weights and tested them out. They fit perfectly and with a single adjustment to spring weight, the gun ran equally well digesting everything from light target loads to the hottest +p stuff I could get hold of and everything in between.

A recoil spring should more accurately be termed a RTB (return to battery) Spring. Softening felt recoil somewhat and perhaps tuning ejection are merely side effects of the primary function of that spring which is to return the action to battery with a fresh round chambered. Any given self-loading firearm doesn't care what spring is in there or where it comes from, only that it works and works every time. No different say than a Harley Davidson engine that has small block Chevrolet pistons inside, the engine doesn't care. So longs as they fit the jugs and have the right characteristics, it'll run!

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

BMCM one more question sir!

For the 4 inch barrel PC 45 CQB what Glock eqivalent ISMI flat spring would I use?

Thank you! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Maybe we could put together a reference chart on the ISMI springs & try & get it sticky status? I for one think it would come in pretty handy!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

For a four inch gun I think you could go either way. The fullsize 36 coil springs will bind at 0.936" whereas the 31 coil springs which are the topic of this thread bind at 0.806". Those 31 coil springs are intended for four inch guns anyway so that's the direction I'd lean. I think what I'd do were I in your place is get a 18# and a 20# in the compact 31 coil length and perhaps a 17# 36 coil spring and try them all both for fitment and funtion. Take whichever length format seems to fit & perform the best then adjust the weight rating if you need to.

But wait, you have another hurdle. If I'm not mistaken, your CQB has a 0.290" diameter guiderod to accomodate a single round wire spring. I assume you don't want to meddle with the original parts so you will need to make a new guiderod that's 0.250" to work with a flatwire spring. If you can get hold of a CHP guiderod pn:903370000 or a one piece steel 4566 rod pn:902970000 I'll gladly machine it to size for you.

FYI, I have a 17# 36 coil spring in my 4566TSW on a spare guiderod I turned down to size and it runs quite well with no issues at all. Let me know how I might help.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

Thank you sir!

I will be thinking about to proceed with that particular pistol as I have a lot in it. I had high hopes for that rare model 4566......and it has been an overall dissapointment.......compared to my "standard" 4566's.

Thanks again! Best regards, 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

thanks for the dimensions where the springs go into bind.
This will help with my search.

Oh boy!
I just measured my cs9 and cs45 for spring clearance.
It looks like the cs9 has 0.554" of spring room.
The spring that's in it is 0.025 flat wire with 17 coils.
This is on a 0.250" guide rod.
The cs45 has 0.515" of spring room.
the spring is 0.025" flat wire with 18 coils.
It uses a 0.250" guide rod also.
It looks like the Glock springs will need trimming to fit these two.

Thank you BMCM for the valuable info.

I've put 150rds through my Shorty 45 MK2 with the ISMI 31 coil 22lb spring for the G***K full size and compacts cut down to 27 coils. It has run flawless so far.

I ordered them from Brass Stacker.

Thanks BMCM.

Just an update, to my last post here when I first installed a ISMI GLC-20#, to say I later tried a ISMI GLC-22# in my 4013 (large frame). It's a tough fit, the first time installed, but I did not need to cut any coils & it operated fine in it.

Just an update to my previous posts. Bought a 4013TSW non-rail this weekend to go with the 4056TSW non-rail. Cleaned it up & dug into my bag of springs to freshen it up for the first shooting. I installed a GLC-20# ISMI recoil spring, like in the 4056TSW. Put it all back together & was surprised to find it was bottoming out on the flat wire spring, not the frame.

Tried the 18# ISMI but of course it was the same problem because they have the same number (31) of coils & wire thickness. Started cutting it down little by little with a Dremel cutting disk. Marked the frame as a double check & (2) turns was almost enough, but not quit & had to take (3) turns off to fix it.

After I got done with the 4013TSW I started thinking why didn't I have the same issue with the 4056TSW as they are the essentially the same gun, just DOA vs TDA (even have the same SN# prefix, MSE). To my embarassment, it was doing the same thing! Can't see why I missed it. Marked the frame & it was stopping short by the same distance as the 4013TSW was . And just like it's sibling, I had to take (3) turns off.

I then quickly triple checked the 4013-(R4) & it was fine. Just a heads-up that it might be best to pencil mark a reference point on the slide-frame when checking new springs, rather than depend on feel & sound, if in doubt. Apparently my sense of touch & hearing aren't as good as my vision.

PS: I don't know if this is totally accurate but I'm thinking that since I reduced the spring by almost 10% (3/31) it's closer to being an 18# vs a 20# recoil spring now?

Thanks Bluedot37,
I also had to trim 3 coils on my 4013TSW.

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

Hi, 03Fatboy!

Did your 4013TSW run OK after the spring trim?

John?

If this weekend goes as planned, I hope to shoot it Saturday and will follow up here.

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

Installed a GL-22 (full size, not the GLC compact) ISMI flatwire spring in my 1076, on a modified guiderod (turned down to .255" dia.), & it installed without having to cut any coils. Took it to the range & fired some moderate LSWC loads & an assortment of full loads using 165 & 180gr JHPs with no issues. I also bought a 24# spring which I plan to try next trip to the range.