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Old 02-16-2024, 07:58 PM
larryofcc larryofcc is offline
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Default M59

Is there such a thing as a C&R eligible M59 S&W? Thanks, Big Larry
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Old 02-16-2024, 11:31 PM
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Yes. I have seen plenty of M59 in the A170xxx range that shipped in 1973 so they are or soon will be C&R eligible.
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Old 02-17-2024, 01:07 PM
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Default Current BATFE C&R Info and, well, MORE

Information Gained From The Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, that also hates being identified as BATFE and that with the loss of just one letter would be known as BATE. Whereas I prefer BA-TE or "batty." Oops, I digress. But even BATFE prefers calling itself "ATF."

Curios & Relics
A regulation implementing federal firearms laws, 27 CFR § 478.11, defines curio or relic (C&R) firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

To be recognized as C&R items, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;

Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. (Curios & Relics | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives)

The following will take the user to 91, count 'em, ninety one pages of firearms that, for one reason or another, are on or off the Curio and Relic pages. https://www.atf.gov/file/128116/download

When this whole C&R thing got underway (You thought it's been around, like, forever?) the ban covered 100 years of guns and they, the BATFE, listed all the guns covered. Such became rather tedious so they lopped 50 years from the original 100 and produced lists that, for the most part, identifies firearms subject to the National Firearms Act and the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968, 1932, 1934, 1988, 1991, 1994, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003, '04, '05, 2006-2024 ... heh, heh, got a little carried away, there.

Writers NoteAnd, no, the Associated Press guidelines do not require and, indeed, banish the use of a hyphen between otherwise conjugated adverbs ((or is it "adjectives" ... I forget)) ending in "y." And while we're on the subject of clarity in writing, as demonstrated at the end of the immediately preceding sentence, "end-quote marks" are placed outside of the period.

The late oil tycoon G. Paul Getty once said the he placed the "end-quote" on the inside of a period or other sentence-ending grammatical mark because it/they looked "lonely on the outside." Getty may well have made a lot of money in oil, for which I congratulate him because as of yet there exists no engine on earth that, pound-for-pound, creates as much energy and as efficiently as the reciprocating engine. Yes, it burns petroleum distillates. No, it's not as big as a nuclear reactor. No, it is not 100-percent efficient. But it's closer than any other engine, pound-for-pound, and including electric, which requires fossil fuels - whether coal, Natural Gas, Farts ((okay, "methane")), wind turbines ((among the MOST inefficient, dollar for dollar, and most DEADLY to wildlife. So, where's PETA? Likely cowering in a corner with other fund-raising Left Wing friends who dare not criticize another Lefty organization for fear of losing Lefty fund pledges. Ah, but I digress ... just a little. Not much. Because you should see/read my serious rants.))

That's it. I'm done. Well, for at least a couple or three minutes, anyway.

Later.
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Old 02-17-2024, 07:37 PM
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It is very interesting that I bought a Thompson SMG, fully automatic, with my C&R, and yet, cannot buy a 51 year old M59 with it. A 50 year old M59 is a C&R pistol and is OK. Convince a dealer of that. Big Larry
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Old 02-17-2024, 08:11 PM
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I am confused. The M59 is not mentioned in any of the 91 pages so does that mean even if it's 50+ years old that it is not a C&R?
All the sections have headings like, "still subject to the
provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968." so only the ones listed in the section are still subject even though they're C&R and ones not listed are not subject to, but are C&R?
See commemorative M19 & M66, etc. but no mention of say a 2.5" M19. Is a 2.5" M19-2 made in 1966 C&R eligible?
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Old 02-17-2024, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snw19_357 View Post
I am confused. The M59 is not mentioned in any of the 91 pages so does that mean even if it's 50+ years old that it is not a C&R?
All the sections have headings like, "still subject to the
provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968." so only the ones listed in the section are still subject even though they're C&R and ones not listed are not subject to, but are C&R?
See commemorative M19 & M66, etc. but no mention of say a 2.5" M19. Is a 2.5" M19-2 made in 1966 C&R eligible?
Seems to me it is. I have bought several M39'A's, 41's, 46's, and a slew of other S&W's with my C&R. Any over 50 are not questioned by dealers. Big Larry
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Old 02-27-2024, 03:35 AM
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Default I Can Dig It, Man

When I beg for sleep and the Rx pills on hand fail to firmly nudge me in that direction I usually turn to the Gov'ment for the needed nudge.

The one site I generally attempt avoidance is the BATFE, because the only direction in which I'm nudged is anger. Still, it helps to be up to date on BATFE policies.

Nearly every time I read the C&R stuff I invariably think "... and will someone puh-leeze tell dealers how this thing works" because I, too, have found way too many dealers unwilling to sell me firearms clearly freed by and for the C&R classifications.

However, let's try to take a look from the dealer's side:
"I don't want to lose my business!"

It's an understandable quandary and it's what WE get by allowing the Gov'ment to supposedly fill too many holes, from con artists like those who attempt pyramid building (like Social Security, but that's another story) to Gov'ment demanding more oil be processed (refineries) but refusing to allow a greater number of drill permits (but that's another story, too).

So, a firearms dealer who's put all his time and money into business looks at those BATFE C&R pages and thinks, "Heck, I've got tax forms (from income - business and personal - to sales taxes) due and I've not got time to read this stuff!

It's truly sad when a country whose business is business (paraphrasing 30th President Calvin Coolidge who said, “The chief business of the American people is business” and who - incorrectly IMHO - was blamed for the Great Depression) gets in the way of business, as has the BATFE because someone, sometime said to one or more of the BATFE boys, "If you can't dazzle 'em with your brilliance, then baffle them with your bull****."

And thus we have 91 pages of which few wish to read and those who do read get a stone wall erected before the reader's very eyes when a firearms dealer says, "Nuh, uh. And you can't make me do it!"

Sad, it is.

Later
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