I saw it in a Gander Mountain in Upstate NY today, and thought it looked like a really good price. I know I paid a lot more for my CS9. I didn't want to wait around for the sales guy so I could handle it, but it looked pretty decent in the case. A little scuffed here and there, like holster wear.

As much as I like the Gen3 S&Ws, I really don't need another pistol, especially in .45.

Seemed cheap to me. What do you CS45 guys think?

David

You should have bought it and flipped it here from $150 to $200 profit.

Life is short buy the 45.

I didn't need a .45 either, but getting a CS45 and a 4513TSW, each for under $400 was a no-brainer. Go back and get it !

What I think is, if you didn't already buy it, someone here did.

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Sure you did

I hope someone here does buy it. It's at the Rochester store.

David

My thoughts exactly.

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I'm just buying one more.

Yeah, I thought about it. But two more trips to Gander and two trips to the County Pistol Permit office (neither of which are anywhere near me), putting it on and then removing it my permit, advertising it, getting paid for it, arranging the FFL, shipping it, running the risk of falling in love with it and keeping it...

A lot of messing around for maybe $150.

One of you guys should grab it.

David

Is the OP a FFL? GARY

It is (or should be) an unwritten rule that anytime one finds a CS45 in pretty decent shape for $349.00 one should immediately do whatever is necessary to acquire it.

just sayin'

No I'm not. Why?

David

Technically you have to hold a FFL if you buy with the intention of selling for a profit. BATFE regs have some wording to this effect but if you are buying to add to your collection and then decide to sell that is legal. You also have to figure in sales tax at 8% and Monroe counties fee to amend your pistol permit then outgoing FFL fees if you ship it to a new owner gets costly quickly. That is an excellent price for an excellent gun and I would have bought it.

I found a CS9 LNIB yesterday. Listed at 550.00. I offered 475.00. Declined. Must have 500.00. I have my eye on other pearls or I would buy it. It's on the Dallas Armslst.

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I'm just buying one more.

It's one thing to buy a gun, use it for a period of time, decide it's not for you for whatever reason, & then turn around & sell it. We are allowed to do that. But to buy a gun you are getting at a great deal with the purpose of immediately flipping it to make a profit, we can't do that. That's what FFL's do. There was a customer of our LGS who did that a few times, & believe it or not, the ATF found out about it. They said if he immediately applied for & got his FFL, they would overlook the matter. He did, & now he's a regular on the local gun show scene. I know some of the local ATF guys, & they know a lot more than we think they know. Foe example, a few hang out in the parking lot of gun shows looking for people who buy a gun from a dealer, bring the gun to their car, & go back inside to buy another gun from another dealer so they don't get reported for buying more than 1 handgun from the same dealer. After the guy buys 12 handguns to flip to someone who will smuggle them into Haiti, the cops follow him home to another county, & everyone gets busted, so be careful. GARY

Gary,
You bring up some interesting points, none that I disagree with. The law is very confusing to me. I am not sure that is clear. I am a member of several Facebook Pages where buying, selling, and trading guns is the purpose. I see daily posts of people selling handguns, rifles, and parts. Some of these posters list multiple and different weapons every day. They are no doubt buying and selling. No one has enough guns that they can offer dozens of different guns for sale each week for weeks on end. I consider them dealers. They have no FFL and no business location. They meet in parking lots. I think this is considered illegal.

Yet, the same guys can have a table at a gun show and sell guns legally that they have not "logged in" on any ATF paperwork. There is no accountability. No background check. They do, usually check drivers licenses.

Why is it legal for the gun show trader to sell at his table, as a business, for profit, yet it seems blatantly illegal for another person to do so out of his truck?

I am confused. Can you clarify this for me?
Dan

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I'm just buying one more.

OP here.

I had no idea it was illegal to buy and immediately sell a gun to turn a profit. But I guess it could appear that someone doing that is running a gun business, so the FFL laws could apply.

I listed the reasons above why I wouldn't be interested in doing this, and this adds to those reasons.

If only I wanted/needed a .45.....

David

db, I think our thread has drifted. I apologize. Sometimes great topics arise from other great topics. There are probably exhaustive threads elsewhere on this great forum about this issue. I am still hoping Gary can help me clarify these things.

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I'm just buying one more.

At one of the local shows in Ft. Lauderdale, anyone with a gun on the table must be a FFL. That venue [building] is owned by the city. Many times I will see a FFL with a bunch of guns that require a 4473, & tax paid. Those are his inventory, & entered in his book. But on the other side of his table are 3 guns, & a sign will say no paperwork, or tax required. Those 3 guns will belong to the widow next door who wants them gone. They do not belong to the FFL, & if they don't sell, he'll give them back to the widow. I see this many times. Also other local shows allow private sellers to walk the aisles with signs on their back selling guns privately they no longer need. That is called "the gunshow loophole". The sellers at the gunshow are mostly all FFL's who have gun stores, but want to have thousands of prospective buyers walking by their inventory. GARY

if we are going to start with "need" I don't need the 33 extra handguns and 10 extra rifles, only have one shotgun though, go and buy that .45

Thanks Gary. I see the same here. It's hard to know when the law is broken, due to the loophole.
Dan

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I'm just buying one more.

Yes, a capable and beautiful little firecracker but overpriced even at $500.00. For a stealthy 9mm I still love the NL3913 and they might even be in the same price range...

The idea of buying to flip is a real can of worms. There is not only "what the law states" but there is the interpretation of that law. At that point, you can look at it from different angles. One angle: it may require your lawyer to make that argument. The opposing angle: if we tread lightly all the time and go well out of our way to NEVER question the irrational "authority" of the BATFE, we'll be subjected to every one of their whims.

As far as I know, the law states that you shall not be in the business of buying & selling firearms. The gray area is when you have crossed that line. They will decide when you have done that, you & your lawyer will prepare to disagree.

Here's yet another way to look at this:

for all of us who seemingly -LOVE- these S&W pistols (and guns in general), what exactly is your end game? Don't answer-- but see if perhaps it is similar to my endgame: mine is to keep getting the fun guns I want to get!

Watching ALL the prices tick EVER HIGHER doesn't make me think "wow, I'm gonna have a pile of cash when I sell!"

No. Makes me think "dang it, I have to search more and buy less as these things tick up in price"

Buying a pistol that I don't truly care to have JUST so I can make a couple of bucks
...and delete one good deal for everyone else
...and absolutely add to the uptick in prices
For you maybe. Not for me.

Doesn't fit my personality. I get paid by the hour for physical labor that I'm pretty good at; that buys my guns.

...at least, when I can find a good deal.

Brother, you live in the wrong state.

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Marlin & Calico Specialist

In states where P2P transfer doesn't require an FFL, like Florida, Texas, & others,
some don't consider it a "loophole", its just another ordinary firearms transaction.

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Marlin & Calico Specialist

LOL, I'm with you on that, & the gun show promoters don't care either. But to those in the Liberal north, or those who lean to the left, that's why gun shows are evil, & of course the media makes it seem that all sales at gun shows are unregulated. GARY

Correct. Just using the word is enough to cause liberal gun-grabbing minds to go completely bananas on us.

Just because something is legal does not make it a "loophole."

Who says it's overpriced at $500 if it's LNIB? I wouldn't.

What other quality, metal framed, compact DA/SA with lifetime warranty do you know of that is made today for $500?

Not a loophole, a Right ~ were Americans

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It is the Indian not the arrow

Ok so where is the CS45 today? Did someone buy it or is it still on the shelf?

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Baby Chief Admirer
SWCA 2870

Thats what I'm thinkin, just have them ship it to my FFL

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It is the Indian not the arrow

Here's the phone number, all it takes is a call.

585-424-4100.

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Sure you did

I don't understand how a company can warranty an item for life once parts are no longer available. LOL.

That is the gun I carry, mine is like new. I would buy another if it was in good shape.

By replacement (with plastic) rather than fixing it I guess.

If my 645 took a dump [which I know it won't] I certainly would not want a M&P 45 as a warranty replacement. GARY

Warranty? We don't need no stinking warranty! I'm sure all my third GEN's will still be doing their job long after I'm dust. I have yet to break one, and I'm positive I could never wear one out. The most I've ever had to do is to replace the occasional trigger spring and recoil springs
(hopefully I haven't just jinxed myself)

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It is the Indian not the arrow

Yes, you could wear one out. They are simple machines, but machines just the same. Moving parts made by man, things can and do break. And FWIW, the "lifetime warranty" was put in place at some point in the late 80s, iirc. It might be up for debate if a 645 qualifies.

I also would have no desire for a polymer M&P replacement for -any- Smith & Wesson that I own, but I also live in the real world with normal and reasonable expectations. I simply cannot get wrapped around the axle if S&W doesn't happen to have ten thousand extra frames or barrels for a 30 year old pistol lying in wait for the day someone calls about their 1980's pistol.