Looking for anyone who might know someone at Smith & Wesson that might be able to help me.

So I have a Smith & Wesson 22A pistol. I know it's a cheap .22LR pistol, but I feel a company should treat customers with the most expensive items the same as customers with the least expensive items. Well the pistol was sprayed with some kind of black gun paint from the factory. Over time the paint has worn in the usual area's and started to flake off. Like scratch the paint off with my finger nail. So I decide this pistol needs to be blued/parkerized/Cerakoted. The problem is that all the ATF markings are laser engraved super shallow and to make matter's worse whatever paint they used was put on thick and the laser engraving is almost 100% in the paint and not in the metal frame. I call the my ATF branch office seeking some advice over the phone and get the same answer I thought was correct. The original maker is the only one who can re-engrave pistol basically. I take lots of pictures and call Smith & Wesson customer support and explain the issue and they kindly email me a prepaid FedEx label. I write a very long detailed letter about the issue drop it and the pistol in a box and ship it. About 2 or 3 weeks later I get the pistol back and a letter inside that says test fired pistol and functions properly. I'm kinda ticked that I wasted my time writing this long detailed letter with pictures and stuff. So I call them up again and they look up the case and say "it worked correctly when we had it, if you want I can send it back in". To which I reply it has always worked correctly it's the required ATF markings that are the problem. The engraving to shallow! So now the customer service rep re-sinds his ship it back offer and asks me to send detailed pictures to his email. I do it and receive an email back stating the serial number has been tampered with and they will not do anything......I'm pretty ticked off now. I bought the gun brand new and have the receipt with the freaking serial number on it. So I call again and speak with another CS rep and he says send ME the pictures and let me inspect the engravings. So I send real nice hi-res photo's explaining I fear if I remove the paint the serial will go with it. So that email goes out. No response of course so after a week I re-send it and everyday after that I send "did you get my email, emails" He finally responds with we engrave firearm markings to required ATF depths, sizes, and letters. So I'm thinking I was worrying about nothing. I put some nail polish on a cotton ball and wipe the serial number area.......Yup you can probably guess what happened next. The serial number is 99% gone. You have to hold the handgun just right in the light to see faint serial number and ATF markings. I called my local ATF branch and they very kindly transfer me to someone in the tech branch. The agent says the engraving first of all should have been engraved in the metal first then painted. Since there is a possibility the paint may be too thick and cause depth in metal issues. He also explains the manufacture is required to laser engrave, engrave, stamp all the markings at minimum .03 inches deep and gave me the specific laws to mention to smith and wesson. So I call smith and wesson again and get transferred this time to the "compliance" department this time. I'm told to leave a voice message because they are out for lunch and will call me when they get back. No call back of course. I call again and asked to be transferred to the compliance department and the new customer service agent basically tells me off. He wants to know the issue before he transfers me, so I explain to which he says he's worked for S&W for over 20 years and they have never had a firearm leave the factory that wasn't the required ATF depth. He then explains how a laser works and that it's impossible for it not to correct. To which I kindly reply with a question. So if the laser is supposed to engrave .03" deep and for sake of argument you have .06" of hard dry paint on the frame how deep would that laser engrave in the metal? He mumbled and said fine I'll transfer you to the compliance department (Voice Mail).
So does anyone have any idea's? Phone numbers of people who can possibly help me? Insight? Anything?

Looks like S&W have to re-engrave serial# the specified depth required by ATF i would think. I could be wrong. but after thats said and done i just had a model 469 cerakoted and wow it came out great , my local gunsmith/shop did it.

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thats wicked pissah

Tim C, I wish Smith & Wesson would re-engrave it. I wished they did it the first time I sent it to them when the paint was still on and completely visible with the contrasting black and white. They did nothing when I sent it in. Then they accused me of altering the serial! Which I did not...Bought the gun new and have receipt with serial. Then said it was the required depth. Then when I removed the paint with nail polish and a cotton ball and the serial disappeared told me to basically pound sand it's my problem now. It really upsets me that I'm going to have to turn it in to the ATF to be destroyed since S&W screwed up when they manufactured it. The sad thing is they could easily fix it, but they must hate me.

Is it legal to have a gunsmith re-engrave #?so you don't have to have it destroyed? Seems like a shame . I would hound the heck out of S&W till they got this right.

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thats wicked pissah

I wish I could have a gunsmith re-engrave it but the only one who can do it is the original manufacturer. The ATF doesn't allow gunsmiths to re-engrave because they can accidentally put the wrong number and according to the law technically the gunsmith would be tampering with the serial number. It sucks for folks that follow the law even if they disagree with the law. When given the choice of F-it or turn it in to be destroyed I unfortunately will turn it in to be destroyed. Even though I probably have more of a chance of being hit by lighting then and government agent ever inspecting for serial number I will be the unlucky one and get 10 years in prison.

Tim, A new day maybe Smith & Wesson will be more helpful today.

I would suggest calling S&W and asking to speak with the president of the Company. You deserve better service then what you have received so far and that person should be able to give it to you. They should do it for Good Customer Relations alone. Don't matter what model it is there are probably more of them out there with the same problem. Let the Big Cheese know.

I feel your pain but I don't know what the answer is. Not long ago, I came across a Model 3953 with cosmetic damage to the anodized aluminum frame. Because of its relative rarity in MA and a somewhat attractive price, I considered buying it and getting the frame professionally refinished. I did a lot of research on the topic to determine the best restoration & refinishing approach. But regardless of which approach I would have taken, the serial number would have been more or less obliterated. Not a good thing.

Eventually, I came to accept the fact that I shouldn't ever buy a gun that requires aluminum frame refinishing. Cost and value issues aside, the obliterating of the serial number and any other laser-applied engravings is just not worth the trouble.

Isn't another laser serial number under the grip?

I suggest writing down your experience (as you did above), and generate an e-mailable document. Then, call customer service back and ask to speak with a supervisor. Practice to summarize your issue in no more than 15-20 seconds verbally, and then offer to e-mail the supervisor your document. What they do with it is up to them, but you can then e-mail the same document as high up the chain it needs to go. Good luck.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

You have a condition that deserves correction by the manufacturer. All you have to do, and it's a shame that you have to do it at all, is get your problem to the attention of the right person.

I am a retired service director from a GM dealership and my wife and I decided to explore the other domestic options after having owned and driven nothing but GM products all our lives, so I bought a Chrysler product and we bought her a Ford. The Chrysler had a goofy and extremely intermittent electrical problem that dealerships tried, with Chrysler's assistance, to repair unsuccessfully. When a chafed wire finally rubbed through, the warranty had expired so I had it repaired by a Chrysler dealer to the tune of $723 and submitted my past and present documentation to Chrysler.

I was told by a customer service representative AND her supervisor that Chrysler only helps out in cases of recalled items or extended warranty coverage and that they have no provisions for any other kind of out-of-warranty goodwill assistance. I easily found the name and address of Chrysler's vice-president in charge of quality control, sent the same documentation to him and received a very apologetic telephone call a few days later. A week after that, a check for $723 arrived in the mail.

As others have suggested, keep pestering them until you find someone who knows how to do the right thing.

Ed

I'm thinking that there way too many filters in the chain of command for that to happen.
A letter might get through,however.

Write to the President of Smith & Wesson. I did, once before. I got a phone call from him. Gun was fixed.

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Don Mundell

I have always done that as most CEO's or Pres. want to know. Information like this keeps them ahead of the problems as little problems can grow into Big Problems real quick if they don't. A smart Pres will deal with it on the spot just for the goodwill alone.

Unless you plan on selling the gun, why is the serial number evens concern?


I realize it is common and preferable to have visible and distinct impressed serials, but is it truly required for ownership, if it was acquired legally.

Your gun was made in Horton ME. Perhaps you could get satisfaction by calling there. Might be worth a try.

Mine has not just one under the grip but two.

Is the confusion at S&W that the OP has experienced real or was it done on purpose to avoid a fix to the problem?
Any chance S&W knows their engraving is not in ATF compliance, .030" into the metal and not the paint?

I'm hoping for a good outcome to this as I also want to have my 22A Cerakoted.

No it's likely that engraving a new serial variance is way more trouble than any manufacturer wishes to deal with.

Could anyone cite the actual relevant portions of the law that say a serial number must be legible in regards to ownership of a firearm? I understand that obliteration is a crime. But the gun still has a serial number associated with it here,and it was not obliterated.