Hi, Gunsmith been working on "Failure to extract" . Changed extractor spring, extractor, recoil spring and now the barrell. Gun now does intermittent shoot 10 and jam . Not able at this stage to send to S&W . Anyone with advice is surely appreciated
thank you, Vom Brunhaus

Find a smith that is experienced with s&W 3rd Gen guns. It sounds like this one is just tossing parts at the problem randomly.

Do the shells just not come out of the barrel as in the extractor is not pulling them or maybe over riding the rim?

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Can open, worms everywhere.

What extractor spring was used for the replacement? A "nested" OEM spring set may be necessary. Also, check the barrel chamber for dirt, oxidation, and/or damage. You advised the recoil spring was replaced. What replacement spring was used?

Are you using OEM magazines? Have you checked/cleaned the interior of the magazines, the followers, and replaced the magazine springs?

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

I assume the pistol used to extract properly for you? Or did you get it this way? Does it do this with various ammos, and have you tried different brands? I would assume at this pount the pistol has been thoroughly cleaned and lubed. Considering all the parts that have been changed, this is perplexing, I'm gonna be watching this thread closely, I really want to know what's up,myself. Keep us posted, and good luck.

"Changing" an extractor and extractor spring in a 3rd gen usually isn't a "drop in" repair.

Extractors commonly have to be filed & fitted, using a factory-supplied Go/No-Go bar gauge.

Determining the proper extractor spring requires the use of a force dial gauge. The factory sells a Wagner gauge, with the appropriate hooked extension, to hold the extractor hook when checking for the recommended tension range at the moment of deflection (extractor movement).

The factory also sells a range of different extractor springs to allow an armorer or smith to find the one that provides the proper tension for any particular pistol.

As armorer951 mentioned, the "repair" part for older 59XX's used to be a nested set, but that was phased out and became "obsolete", replaced with a set of 2 different tension springs for an armorer to try (separately, not together).

Also, the recommended extractor tension range is different for the 59XX double stacks, depending on whether they have the older narrow barrel tab/breech face cut, or the newer wide barrel tab/breech face cut. (The older guns which required the use of the nested spring set might also require a heavier tension than was typically recommended, too, and this had to be carefully approached and tested by the armorer. I've seen a couple older 5903's that required tensions 2-4 lbs heavier than "normal", but which resulted in normal feeding & extracting.)

I'd not replace a barrel for a FTE issue unless there was an actual problem with the barrel, and then only if the usual corrections/replacement of the extractor & extractor spring were unsuccessful at correcting a failure-to-extract condition. (I've dressed a few older barrels that had high/tight spots in the chamber, but that's also something to approach carefully, as even a finishing chamber reamer can ruin a barrel if used improperly.)

Have you tried calling the S&W warranty service center in Texas? I've never used them, being an armorer, but they seem to have earned a good reputation among some posters. Might be quicker than the back-logged factory pistol repair dept.

Just some thoughts.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

REPLACING THE EXTRACTOR IS A FIT PART. IT REQUIRES THE USE OF A "BAR AND FLAG GAGE SET" TO SET THE TENSION. WERE THEY USED?

AND AS ALWAYS ; WHAT AMMO? LETS LOOK AT THE SIMPLEST ANSWER FIRST

'

I agree the most likely problem is the extractor / extractor spring fitment...
A barrel swap should rule out rough chamber problems.
For unusual problems I'd ask what loads you are using... examine the primers for cratering. Too light a load / too stiff a recoil spring might prevent full cycling.
It might be limp wrist malfunction... Do you have hand/arm impairment? How common is limp-wristing? I know it has been a problem for wounded officers.
Is the firing pin moving freely? A sticking firing pin "might" hang up a case.
Still the most likely solution is the extractor / spring.

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

Multiple magazines and multiple ammo varieties have been used still same thing. And yes when I first got the 5906 it worked fine. Thank you all for your help, I will daily follow this thread for help. Has become a stressful problem all around. VB

Always a good idea to first consider the ammo being used when it comes to failures-to-extract, especially if it isn't an older, well-used model with an aging extractor spring (or visibly damaged extractor).

For the folks not familiar with the gages (or gauges) PPCSHOOTER is talking about ...

The bar gage measures the distance between the edge of the extractor hook and the opposite shoulder of the breech face, setting the correct depth/reach of the hook by letting the armorer know when enough has been filed off the adjustment pad.

The flag gage measures the distance between the rear of the hook and the breech face directly behind it.

There's GO & NO-GO ends to each gage.

The factory dropped having armorers use the "flag" gages several years ago. They said the engineers determined that just using the bar gage properly was sufficient to obtain both of the proper dimensions (since the extractor pivots). They stopped ordering the flag gages made, and stopped selling them to armorers back then. I heard it was coming and ordered the remaining sets I needed to cover all calibers for 3rd gen's my own tool box, though.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

All types of ammo have been used Fastbolt, dont know how/what gauges this gunsmith is using. and yes the casing stays in the chamber, used to stove pipe but not now. What should I inform him to focus on one subject ? Folks are returning to Extractor spring as most likely Thank you VB

Is this an older 5906 with the narrow barrel tab/breech face cut? Might it have been well used over time?

If so, and if the FTE's are occurring with a variety of ammunition, it's not unreasonable to suspect the extractor spring may have reached the end of its useful service life. A simple check with a force dial gage can help determine if that's the case ("simple", if you have the dial gage, that is ).

Checking the condition of the extractor hook is also important, as extractors can become "work-hardened" and brittle over time and a lot of use. A couple of the factory guys have previously said that firing 10K rounds, and/or heavy use for 10 or more years (as the extractor springs are under tension if the duty guns are left loaded, in addition to being fired).

If the gun's been in-service long enough for the extractor spring to become worn and tired, and/or the extractor to start to chip, it's also not unwise to consider replacing the ejector, as that's the other half of the hard-working "partnership" in the feeding, extracting & ejection job. Replacing the ejector is a drop-in replacement, presuming the right part is used, and proper fit/function is confirmed, of course.

Additionally, if it's an older 5906 (narrow barrel tab), then the newer ejectors (whether black or stainless) have been revised to help eliminate a potential stress riser which might eventually result in a broken tip.

If you lived in Central CA, I'd offer to inspect and repair your 5906 as a courtesy, as an armorer, because I still have a sufficiently small collection of parts I've bought for myself over the years (looking forward to maintaining my own guns in retirement).

Why not call that authorized warranty center? Better to have it inspected and correctly repaired, instead of remaining frustrated and worried. Why not have it done so you can enjoy many more years of reliable use? Warranty Stations - Smith & Wesson

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I knew a gunsmith (skilled machinist who worked on a lot of rifles in his own retail storefront gunstore and gunsmithing shop) who felt he needed to attend a factory 3rd gen pistol armorer class so he could better work on them. As I recall, he felt the same way about AR's.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

BTW, people have been returning to the idea of a weakened (damaged, broken, contaminated/badly fouled, etc) extractor spring because that's one of the 3 most common probable causes of failures-to-extract.

Damaged extractor
Damaged extractor spring
Damaged recoil spring

Replacing a recoil spring is a user/owner level attempt at correction.

If it's an extractor and/or extractor spring, however, then it requires training, experience and the right tools. Not a hobbyist/enthusiast repair, in other words.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Why not just send it back to the factory and be done with it? No stress involved. My Kentucky State Police 1076 was having extraction problems when I first bought it, I sent it back to Smith, they repaired and returned it a few weeks later with a new extractor and extractor spring, and I never had another problem with it again. I paid around $70 for the repairs and that included shipping.

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Steve
NJ State Trooper (rtd)

That's Frank at LSG. Great guy to talk to and deal with. I only deal with him now. Send him an email describing the problem and he will tell you what time to call him to personally describe the problems.

Here's Franks website. In my experience he's faster than the factory. Also nice to be talking to the actual guy who is going to do the work. He's not gonna leave after market parts in it though. Neither would the factory I am sure.

http://www.lsgmfg.com

whats the e mail or phone number for this man ?

Under the horse with the big lasso.

[email protected]

Unless he changed it. Phone number is on website under lasso

My friend had a 5906 that was not extracting sometimes and we tried the usual things such as detail cleaning and replacing the spring. None of this worked so he called S&W and was sent a label to send it back. It was returned several weeks later no charge, they replaced the extractor.

Thanks Yorkie right now theres at least a 3 month waiting time due to summer vacations @ Smith and Wesson. I have spoken to them.

I still say to sell it, cumba

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Richard L.
Lib with guns

+1. I too would send it to S&W.

An everyday gunsmith, as competent as they may be, may not be qualified for 3rd gen work. I know you said that couldn't use S&W right now, but that's the only sure thing unless you can find somebody good with 3rd gens, then you've spent about as much money as you would have sending it to S&W.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

if you know another 06 owner that would be willing to swap slides for a test run this can narrow down the reason for the problem.
my guess is bad extractor/spring. likely spring and a simple test is chamber a dummy round then hold pressure on the extractor hook and pull back the slide. if the case retracts then - but doesn't w/out the pressure then the spring is surely shot.

GunSmith has fitted the new barrell and am picking it up for a range test today, Hes stated hes replaced the spring over and over. So we will see, if no success will likely trade it in on a Sig Sauer. Thank you for your help 5906fan. Like the gun and hate to part with it but enuff is enuff

Let us know if you put it up for sale.

I received gun back from Gunsmith Aug. 4th saying hes fitted the new barellel into the gun. Took to the range with 2 boxes of assorted Ammo, and variety of Magazines also. Set up written Ledger / count sheet. Result is I shot 70 rounds of ammo with only one FTE which was half out of the chamber. I guess thats as good as it gets. Took home cleaned & oiled well. Will retry again in couole of weeks. Once again thank All of you for your Help on this Forum Mike Vom Brunhaus K9 GSD

How much money have you put into this? A trip to either the factory or to frank, who is authorized by the factory to do the work, would have cost you nothing.

1 or two FTE's during barrel break-in would be normal

Hopefully he got it, but if you have any more problems,
Send it to Frank.

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Marlin & Calico Specialist

second range visit 100 plus rounds fired "No FTE at all" total success and issue has dis-appeared. Thanking you Forum friends for all your help.
VB K9

I'm happy to hear your pistol is working like it should now.
I love my 5906.

Just a thought... How is the ammo chambering. Without going all scientific and buying 10 grand or better worth of production QC tooling. You need to determine what is happening. I mean come on... The slide pulls forward the extractor hooks the rim, then it fires, the brass cartridge expands to meat the chamber then retracts a smidgen after the gasses are released from the barrel, then the recoil throws the slide back, and the ejector bar hits the other side of the rim throwing the spent cartridge out of the ejection port as the slide reaches the far end of its cycle.

One of these steps is not happening consistently. Look for clues as to which of these is not happening correctly. Things like when firing from a bench rest does the spent cartridges fall in a small pattern on the ground or are they all over the place? Look at the markings on the spent cartridges. Are they gouged up deeply where the extractor is sliding over the rim? Use a magnifying glass to inspect them. Compare the failed to extract cartridges to the successfully extracted cartridges and look for clues. You need to be a detective. Use good quality ammo with consistent velocities for these tests. Does the slide go into battery all the time correctly? Does the barrel fit the slide correctly? Does the ammo chamber and head space correctly?

Know ALL these things without any doubt before blaming anything and blindly replacing parts! It is a concert of activities that all need to happen in a timing sequence that needs to be consistent to a certain degree.

If you have done all this and it is still not apparent what the problem is you are looking at one of these and thinking it is correct when it is not. Stop!!! Reevaluate and check again eventually it will become apparent what it is that looks correct or you thought was correct and is not correct.

It could be as simple as taking a file to the hook on the extractor or as expensive as a new slide and barrel if it is worn beyond refitting. But know what it is before removing any material from a part you are not willing to replace.

I am willing to bet your answers are in the spent ejected / failed to eject cartridges if you look for clues there. I reload and I see ejector marks that I can almost tell which of my guns fired them. Go CSI (Crime Scene Investigation) on this or find someone who can.

But asking here is not a bad idea as all the ideas that others have put forth may spur that epiphany you are seeking.

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Jason Adams

Did you notice that he got the issue sorted out?
I guess not.

Sorry I did not see that post. A breach of etiquette I suppose. Not to worry I will just go back to lurking and let people figure it out themselves.

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Jason Adams