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  #51  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:15 PM
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TTSH
After seeing your earlier post describing the differences I decided to check mine...
Just to complicate things...
I found a 14 round mag with 2 mag release cuts.
I took these so that you could see through the 2 cutouts.
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  #52  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 45 View Post
TTSH

After seeing your earlier post describing the differences I decided to check mine...

Just to complicate things...

I found a 14 round mag with 2 mag release cuts.

I took these so that you could see through the 2 cutouts.


FYI That mag has a orange follower, so it's a 15 round.
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  #53  
Old 08-20-2017, 07:19 PM
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I just put an orange follower in.
If you count the witness holes you will see that it is a 14 round body.
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  #54  
Old 08-20-2017, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 45 View Post
TTSH
After seeing your earlier post describing the differences I decided to check mine...
Just to complicate things...
I found a 14 round mag with 2 mag release cuts.
I took these so that you could see through the 2 cutouts.
Not a problem or uncommon at all. It's still a pre-ban.

My statement about the number of magazine release cuts only applies to 5900-series 15-round magazines... nothing else.
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  #55  
Old 08-20-2017, 09:24 PM
TTSH TTSH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85V65Sabre View Post
FYI That mag has a orange follower, so it's a 15 round.
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Originally Posted by tom 45 View Post
I just put an orange follower in.
If you count the witness holes you will see that it is a 14 round body.
Correct. Folks should not get confused or hung up on that. Just because you put an orange follower in an old 14-round 2nd Gen/very early-3rd Gen pre-ban tube (thus making it able to hold 15 rounds) does not suddenly make it into a later 3rd Gen pre-ban or post-ban 5900-series 15-rounder.

It might be considered bad practice or maybe a little risky by some in Massachusetts, but replacement of followers alone is probably not going to put anybody behind bars.
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  #56  
Old 08-20-2017, 09:36 PM
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OK,TSSH,what your opinion about these.
6,7,8 are marked LEO only,11 is a rare 356TSW.
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  #57  
Old 08-20-2017, 09:40 PM
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The ban is based on the date of manufacture and the capacity. I've rebuilt a bunch of 20 and 30 round pre ban AR magazines. That consists of cleaning the bodies and then putting in new springs for the 20 round mags, and putting in new springs and anti tilt followers for the 30 round mags.

There people in MA who also repaint the bodies as part of the rebuild.

None of that changes the fact that they are pre ban magazines.

Same thing with replacing the springs, followers, base plates, and base plate catches on any pre ban magazine.

Interestingly, on the M&P 9mm guns the MA compliant magazines are totally different than the regular ones. The base plates are not interchangeable and it is not possible to convert a 10 round MA magazine into a high capacity magazine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Correct. Folks should not get confused or hung up on that. Just because you put an orange follower in an old 14-round 2nd Gen/very early-3rd Gen pre-ban tube (thus making it able to hold 15 rounds) does not suddenly make it into a later 3rd Gen pre-ban or post-ban 5900-series 15-rounder.

It might be considered bad practice or maybe a little risky by some in Massachusetts, but replacement of followers alone is probably not going to put anybody behind bars.
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  #58  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
OK, TSSH, what your opinion about these. 6,7,8 are marked LEO only, 11 is a rare 356TSW.
Well, again, the Federal AWB ran from 1994 to 2004. The Model 6900-series guns were all discontinued during the ban. 12-round magazines made after 1994 and up until 2004 had to have the LEO/Export restriction on them. They are all "post-ban" magazines, by definition. For us common peon folks, we were only able to get 10-round magazines.... obviously without the LEO/Export markings.

2nd and 3rd Gen 69/6900-series 12-round magazines made before 1994 are the "pre-bans" and that is what you've got other than the LEO/Export marked 6, 7 & 8.

To the best of anybody's knowledge, S&W did not manufacture any brand new 6900-series 12-round magazines after the ban ended although there is speculation in some quarters that maybe they did because some would occasionally pop up for sale here and there. But even if they did, there is no known way to date them or to tell them apart from known pre-bans (as there is for other S&W pre-ban vs. post-ban magazines)... so it becomes kind of a moot point in a legal sense.

As for your .356TSW magazine, if it is not LEO/Export marked, it was very likely made in 1993... just before the ban.
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  #59  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
The ban is based on the date of manufacture and the capacity. I've rebuilt a bunch of 20 and 30 round pre ban AR magazines. That consists of cleaning the bodies and then putting in new springs for the 20 round mags, and putting in new springs and anti tilt followers for the 30 round mags.

There people in MA who also repaint the bodies as part of the rebuild.

None of that changes the fact that they are pre ban magazines.

Same thing with replacing the springs, followers, base plates, and base plate catches on any pre ban magazine.
Well, this is where we find ourselves in slight disagreement. Very slight, in fact... probably not even worth the trouble of pointing out our differences.

My position is that we don't really know for absolute certain, legally speaking (not talking common practice or what you can get away with... but just MA law itself), what is allowed to be done to a pre-ban magazine in order to keep it a legal pre-ban magazine (and, thus, exempt from the magazine limit law). There has been lots of guesses and speculation but never once concrete legal answer we could count on back from the state.

Does that mean I think you are wrong? NO! Why? Because there is no way for anyone to know for certain and the anti-2A AG Lady 100% likes it that way. Uncertainty about those poorly conceived and poorly written laws is the tool she uses to keep us peons in line.
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  #60  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
OK, TSSH, what your opinion about these. 6, 7, 8 are marked LEO only, 11 is a rare 356TSW.
I should have also added that I am assuming that these are all S&W OEM magazines. There are some brand new third-party 6900-series 12-round magazines out there now that are supposedly very, very close matches to the originals... a potential danger for us beaten down subjects of certain loony moonbat states.
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  #61  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:20 PM
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As soon as I think I have this figured out someone makes another post and I'm confused all over again.
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  #62  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
A few thoughts.

1) The difference between 14 round and 15 round is the follower. Orange followers are 15 round. Replace a black with an orange and you have a 15 round magazine.

2) No one has ever been prosecuted or even charged for solely possessing a post ban magazine.

3) When you move to MA, you do not have to register any guns you bring in with you. The state words the registration page carefully to suggest it, but you do not have to.

4) You can bring any guns that you currently own with you, even if they are not on the MA approved roster. You can sell them directly to another licensed gun owner in MA via face to face sale. That sale DOES have to be registered. You can NOT have a dealer transfer non roster guns from you to another party. At least not without the dealer running the risk of getting in significant difficulty with the state.
I was aware that I could bring the "hi-cap" handguns with me, but I wasn't aware that I could sell them in MA FTF.
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  #63  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
There are some brand new third-party 6900-series 12-round magazines out there now that are supposedly very, very close matches to the originals...
Hmmm - interesting - I wonder if Mec-Gar finally made a run, at some point, of 6906 mags? Back before I gave up on trying to find more 12-rounders - I had paid as much as $60 for 12-rd mags. Then, I found that the 10-rounders were pretty well made ... but, now they seem to be completely gone!!
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  #64  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:21 AM
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I was aware that I could bring the "hi-cap" handguns with me, but I wasn't aware that I could sell them in MA FTF.
Yes, you can... ... with a limit of 4 per year before you have to go through a dealer (then only if a roster-listed gun) and pay him or her for the transfer. This is how at least some non-roster and pre-roster guns still manage to come into this highly-restrictive moonbat state. For example, years ago I bought my "banned" Glock 17 Gen4 from a newly-arrived MA resident after he obtained his LTC. He couldn't bring in or sell me the post-ban hi-cap magazines that came with it, but he was able to sell me the gun for which I later bought some 10-round magazines.
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  #65  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
Hmmm - interesting - I wonder if Mec-Gar finally made a run, at some point, of 6906 mags?
No, they aren't from Mec-Gar. They are apparently American-made. There are a couple sources out there. One appears more "factory" than the other but I have only seen unverified photos, not the actual post-ban magazines themselves for obvious reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
Back before I gave up on trying to find more 12-rounders - I had paid as much as $60 for 12-rd mags. Then, I found that the 10-rounders were pretty well made ... but, now they seem to be completely gone!!
Yep. 10-rounders have all but disappeared in the marketplace. You can thank Commiefornia and other such restrictive states for that situation.
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  #66  
Old 12-23-2017, 10:19 AM
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Default New 6906 10 round mags

It appears LG-Outdoors has new 10 round factory 6906 mags for sale. $37.00 plus around $15.00 min UPS charge. May be worth checking out for those in restricted areas, maybe not......
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:34 AM
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It appears LG-Outdoors has new 10 round factory 6906 mags for sale. $37.00 plus around $15.00 min UPS charge. May be worth checking out for those in restricted areas, maybe not......
Wow!!! Excellent find! I found some a little cheaper (not by much) but you seem to have found the motherload... 57 in stock! Well done!!!
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  #68  
Old 12-23-2017, 10:43 AM
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Merry Christmas to all !!!
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  #69  
Old 12-24-2017, 11:42 AM
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Personally I think if the magazine is purchased in good faith from a reputable seller attesting to its status as pre-ban that I would be Ok with it. Consider yourself somewhat lucky as here in Kolorado there is only grandfathering for magazines you actually OWNED before the cutoff (albeit much more recent).
Been in a Colorado gun store recently? Pretty much any mag you want is available disassembled into the tube, floorplate and spring and sold as a "kit." Lately it seems most shops just stock the mags and I assume will disassemble them before you walk out of the store for you to put back together outside. It isn't illegal to possess hi cap mags here, just to buy and sell them within the state. The kit method has the full support of every LEO I know and was the subject of at least a couple news stories and no one tried to "fix" that in the legislature.

Still need to get rid of the stupid law, but in the meantime it is a fairly small inconvenience. But, you know, we had to feel good after Aurora so we needed a new law.

As to the OP's situation, after reading through the detailed responses I can see your problem. If I had to live in your state I would just use 10 round magazines to avoid some over-zealous and gun-unfriendly cop or prosecutor making my life difficult. But I don't care much about hi capacity and am mostly a single-stack person anyway, so that is easy for me to say.

Good luck in your quest.
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  #70  
Old 12-24-2017, 11:56 AM
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Went to LG Outdoors referenced in post #66,definitely as TTSH said 'a motherload'. CS45s'-5,'69' 10rdrs-57,CS9s'-31
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  #71  
Old 12-24-2017, 01:31 PM
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If mags are indistinguishable, how then can the state get past reasonable doubt?
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  #72  
Old 12-24-2017, 01:44 PM
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Are you willing to put yourself in a position of the government against you ??? If you play by the rules,you have the rules on your side.
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  #73  
Old 12-24-2017, 05:05 PM
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If mags are indistinguishable, how then can the state get past reasonable doubt?
Most hi-cap magazines are readily distinguishable between pre-ban (pre-1994) and post-ban. It helps the anti-2A enforcers that all hi-caps manufactured here or imported between 1994 and 2004 (i.e., during the Federal AWB) had to be marked for "LEO or Export Only." Those are the most illegal hi-cap magazines in states like MA simply because they are so easily identified by anyone as post-ban.

AWB period production aside, there are many ways to distinguish between pre-1994 and post-2004 magazines. The information is out there. You just have to look for it and be able to tell what is true & accurate and what is BS.

Are there hi-cap magazines out there that are difficult to date? Yes, there are. In such cases, you better know the risk before possessing a possible or likely post-ban hi-cap in a crazy state like mine. It's a felony in MA so we take it very seriously even though the statistics say that the odds of being arrested for possession of a post-ban hi-cap alone (absent some other charge) are pretty small. But seeings as how it is a felony, you'd instantly lose your license in MA, have your guns (all of them) confiscated and you'd likely become a prohibited person for life.

So it's a small risk, but with a life-changing penalty if arrested and convicted. Most here will tell you it isn't worth the risk for the few dollars extra it takes to buy a pre-ban hi-cap or 10-round crippled magazine.
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