Looking at a 4513TSW, no rail or billboard markings with three mags and Trijicon nite sights (MSF serial prefix). Question: It has a high polish on the slide, both safeties and the slide release. Was this model ever offered in this finish?

Also a value if possible. TIA

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BCCI Life Member #2068

I just paid $400.00 a couple days ago for a 4566 TSW. LEO trade in.
What is the asking price on the one your looking at?

It's coming up at auction so no price.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

For some of us, this is a grail gun, others it's just another 3rd GEN. I've got one w/o the rail and like it, but have 457's and 4516 that I also have a high regard for. I think if you can get it for 500-600, with box and paper, in LNIB condition - it's worth pursuing. More than that, I'd probably wait. I'd be surprised to see it go for less than 500, unless the seller was unaware of the market for this model (particularly w/o the rail).

Thank you. Got some pics. Is the polished slide factory or mod?

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BCCI Life Member #2068

Not an official or expert opinion, but I have NEVER seen S&W ship a pistol with a slide polished in such a way that there is no lettering whatsoever. It would seem to me that the pictured pistol was altered and not originally as appeared.

It looks like they did a decent job of it, but I would also expect that a polish like that would not be tolerant of much handling -- and to keep it looking that way would mean regular polishing.

Certainly no reason not to buy it, shoot it and love it, but I would have to assume that "collectible" value has taken a genuine hit.

Again, not having one of these (I did have a CS-9 but it was sent away...), and in looking at the picture -- I am starting to wonder if perhaps a little stippling wasn't also done on the wrap-around Delrin grip? Hard to tell and if so, appears to be very well done. Also, grips are replaceable, but the picture does make me ask.

Unfortunately, in an auction... even if these questions are valid and the answers are "yes", it doesn't really enter the conversation with the seller. You aren't negotiating with the seller... you are "negotiating" with all of the other bidders.

I am certain that many folks have, but I can say that I have never had any luck with in-person auctions. Every time I have witnessed one it seems to be a real head-shaker and a heap of lost time.

Thanks for the replies. I hadn't noticed the stippling before but I agree it looks unlike factory. If it goes cheap enough I might bring it home. I could be a BUG for my 645.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

Looks like an after factory hand polished and maybe a little dehorning and home stippled grips....

I keep a 4513 TSW by the bed. It doesn't have a high polish. Same finish as my CS 45.

......looks like the perfect candidate to become someones ccw

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witty signature goes here

Funny to call a gun so heavily modded "LNIB"!

There is a 4566TSW near me listed the same way but the rail has been removed. If not Factory Original, not LNIB!

I think;.... "LNIB"... is now being defined by many as...............


"I haven't shot it a lot"......

I revised my original post. The first photo looks quite nice and it is listed as possibly unfired. That's why I asked about the finish on the slide as I wasn't sure if it was factory or not. Obviously given the information provided it is not LNIB at lest as far as original finish.

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BCCI Life Member #2068

That's my thought on the matter.

... and often I'm finding that the "B" (box) in "LNIB" isn't even the original for the gun or, even worse, sometimes isn't a Smith & Wesson box at all, just something aftermarket.

Sellers can be very creative people.

Well, the slide could be refinished, or even just bead blasted back to satin - or some determined application of different grades of Scotch Brite could be used to make it look more original. But the lettering is long gone. The grip mod probably improves handling, and looks OK. To each his own, but for me it is not LNIB, and generally speaking pistols that look like this are well-used, and often well loved. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it as a shooter, it may make a dandy EDC. But it's collector value is pretty much toast, IMO. Someone might see all this as "upgrades" and pay more, but I would probably be reluctant to pay more than 500 for it.

Please know that I wasn't criticizing you at all. It's shady sellers who use terms that they absolutely know aren't true that drive me to drink! I've personally been screwed at least 3 times with "factory boxes" that I now know weren't original to the gun... and at least as many times with "LNIB" ads where the box wasn't even factory, let alone original to the gun.

Also beware of the terms "looks unfired" and "possibly unfired"! Your brains internal warning system should go right through the roof if some seller hands you those lines. It means: "I haven't got a clue in the world about this gun's history but I'm going to try to fool you into thinking that this gun is unfired"!

Sorry, but these are huge pet peeves of mine. Rant now complete. Back to my tea.

I am wit' Sevens with respect to the slide's finish. Indeed, so with Sevens is this Forum member that he'll say: No way in Hades is this gun a properly produced S&W.

Buyer beware because if the 4513 TSW's exterior been misrepresented, what else may have been? Indeed, absent of actual proof to the contrary, I'd assume the existing slide wasn't mated to the 4513TSW frame at the factory, where a few extra steps are taken to that end and where certain inside-slide marks affirm that mating.

This forum member is often involved in auctions relating to firearms and, in particular, Smith & Wesson gen 1-3 semi-automatics and has made more than a few satisfactory buys, he's also seen outlandish BS.

One such example was a recent claim that a nickel-plated semi-auto was a S&W prototype for the company's entire post-WWII
generations 1-3 production, gratuitously noting that the firearm in question nor its makers were aware of what was to come.

The gun: a S&W 39-2. Said so, right where it was supposed to say so in the gun itsownself.

Yet, it was sold. At a heavy premium to what even a pristine nickel 39-2 would've brought.

The key in matters of buying a firearm that might go at a premium to similar firearms - say, a 3913 vs. a 3913TSW (for the 4513 is similarly situated) - is doing as Mr. Simmons has done: ask questions.

But, such doesn't stop there. An investment in reading material like all three editions of the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson (Edition 4 coming soon) will potentially save a buyer of higher-end S&W firearms some serious bread and surely will cover their cost of acquisition.

The Web has a variety of sources, not the least of which is personal opinion (a reader often can tell when a piece has been inflated one way or another). A statistical source (the tale of the tape, as it were) is Genitron, where you'll find this on the 4513TSW.

Happy Hunting and buy now!

Later - DC

It is possible that I'm a fool... but I typically want to think the "best" in folks until they give me reason to think otherwise. In a face to face deal, I find it is far easier to get a feel for the level of "artistry" you are witnessing. Obviously, it is far less easy to do that through a computer via notes, e-mail or maybe txt messages.

If you are talking an in-person auction, you now have some random third party (the auction folks) who may very well know SQUAT. And it has been my experience that most of these in-person auctions (where scads of people look over piles of stuff and everyone has to wait 3 hours for the bidding to even begin and that lasts for 2+ hours before they ever get to the GUNS and even then... it's the single shot break-open shotguns that go first...) but the point I'm trying to make is that TYPICALLY the one single person who has the best chance at actually knowing the most recent history of the gun in question... is usually the deceased special guest, along in spirit but not taking questions. (or at least... not answering them.)

It really has not been my experience that <insert some random percentage made up quickly> are dirty bums who are trying to hide something nefarious. Actually, probably like many of you, most of the handguns that I find myself seriously considering are quite often (if not USUALLY) currently in the hands of someone who simply knows less about it than I do. And it also seems obvious at this point that the lion's share of folks that I find selling guns... are much more "guys selling guns" than they are guys who shoot guns a lot, the way that I love to do.

I know there is "artistry" in a lot of selling but I truly don't believe that most of the time you are dealing face to face with the guy who willfully altered the gun and it now willfully lying to you about not having done that. I just don't think that's what we're seeing most often.

That guy? The one who took his Mother's Mag polish from the motorcycle cleaning kit and scrubbed the life out of his 686 to make it look like a bright stainless Python? That guy isn't selling you the hideous, mirror finish L-frame. THAT GUY sold it to a gun show dealer and he probably took it in the keister, as well he should for having done that to a gorgeous matte stainless finish.

The gun show dealer offering you the revolver is just a guy who hauls guns to ****** city mall venues every weekend. And though you may not like that guy... you just -KNOW- when you pluck a rare one from him under the going rate, you will post about your sneaky find right here in these pages!

My 4513 TSW was personally carried by Elliot Ness .

I would be inclined to think that's definitely not factory. But... I dunno... it's still kinda cool.

Do the exterior mods suggest other things may have been buggered up? Can't say for sure. But then again, it's a used gun; you never know exactly what you're getting into.