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Old 10-07-2015, 02:29 PM
TTSH TTSH is offline
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Talking Other People's Guns!

I've mentioned before how through a Groupon I've been able to join a nearby premium indoor range for 4 months that would otherwise be financially out of my reach. I just have to declare publicly, and to my 3rd Gen brothers and sisters in particular, that I am having a total blast shooting (and never once having to clean) other people's guns... i.e., guns owned/loaned by the range. The only downside so far is that my ammo bill is going right through the roof.

Actually, there are a couple other downsides. The noise level on a busy day is almost more than my old, aging, tinnitus-suffering ears can stand even with the best plugs plus muffs that money can buy. Shooting outdoors at my regular club is usually a whole lot quieter.

Another downside is that on any given day, at least half the handguns are out of service for one reason or another. The failure rate overall is really quite disturbing. But it still leaves me a lot of options to choose from on any given day.

But the biggest advantage is trying out all those guns without ever having to buy or clean them! It's been quite an education, particularly in regard to how different handguns hold up under extreme multi-user daily use and how well (or badly) I happen to shoot with them. I'm formulating a lot of opinions but I'll hold off on getting into any of them until my experimentation is complete.

Too bad for me that these are all current model guns (and mostly plastic), so no 3rd Gens... not even one. For that, I still have to bring my own. Another slight downside: Most of these loaner guns have had the terrible MA-compliant triggers worked or eliminated one way or another... so I need to realize that I am not exactly testing out the gun I would be able to buy in their store if I so desired.

Lastly, I must boast out loud about how well I am doing regardless of the gun I happen to choose on any given day. Understand that I was never truly a great competitive shot like my old man (R.I.P.) and his father before him, but I am apparently becoming a regular Hickok45 in my old age! And did I mention... I have never once had to clean a loaner gun!

Last edited by TTSH; 10-07-2015 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:02 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
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You could do BETTER than that... by taking a trip away from the East Coast and making some visits to other forum buddies who would have a blast putting their cool guns in your paws for some shootin'.
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:27 PM
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PLENTY of forum members on the east coast....

Sounds like a good way to experience a particular make and model before you buy. For a lot of folks, that's important.

Maybe you could get a part time job there, to defer the ammo costs? You know, something like cleaning guns?....

Larry
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:28 PM
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You could do BETTER than that... by taking a trip away from the East Coast and making some visits to other forum buddies who would have a blast putting their cool guns in your paws for some shootin'.
Oh, I hear you... ... but this way is a whole lot cheaper and way more time efficient than travel.

I have purposely limited myself to no more than 2 or 3 different handguns per session. I'm already starting to feel that I should be taking notes (maybe to write a book? ) but at least I am recording my visits and the guns & ammo used in my electronic daily log. Before my 4 months is up, I intend to test every handgun in their inventory at least twice... or at least I will test the "still working" ones.
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:35 PM
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PLENTY of forum members on the east coast....

Sounds like a good way to experience a particular make and model before you buy. For a lot of folks, that's important.

Maybe you could get a part time job there, to defer the ammo costs? You know, something like cleaning guns?....

Larry
No way José!!!

They actually did recently advertise for help. Only problem is that I am old enough to be the grandfather (or maybe even the great-grandfather) of all the employees there now.

And as Bam-Bam likes to point out, I've only got maybe 5 good years left... so I've got to make the most of them or else! So gun cleaning all day long??? NO THANKS!!!
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:35 PM
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See, ya gotta dig deeper in to my argument before you simply write it off.

Your way: many different guns, short drive, no cleaning of said guns. It's all good and I sure don't blame you for doing it.

However, with your way...
A slew of tupperware and other comparable soulless, newish tools. You admit... NO S&W 3rd Gens. Matter of fact, you'll be limited to (and I'll use your words) moonbat, MA-compliant stuff. Joy!

Visit some enthusiasts and the SKY is the limit rather than the legislature of the Commonwealth of former Free America.
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Old 10-07-2015, 09:55 PM
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despite keeping out of the freezing cold and snow(does that happen in Mass.?).......the only good reason to shoot indoors is that you can bring your target to you instead of retrieving it .......and I actually like cleaning my guns afterward.....not so sure I'd enjoy cleaning someone else's though
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Old 10-07-2015, 10:04 PM
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Default Three ways to save on ammo.....

Reload, reload, reload.

Of course the range may require you to purchase ammo there. When you finish your time, look for a range that lets you shoot your own.


I think the guys that wear double hearing protection (muffs and plugs) have the right idea in an indoor range. I didn't have a bit of flinch before I started shooting indoors. I MUCH prefer the outside.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:02 AM
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Reload, reload, reload.

Of course the range may require you to purchase ammo there. When you finish your time, look for a range that lets you shoot your own.

I think the guys that wear double hearing protection (muffs and plugs) have the right idea in an indoor range. I didn't have a bit of flinch before I started shooting indoors. I MUCH prefer the outside.
I'm not allowed to use reloads in the other people's guns... i.e., the range's loaner guns. They have enough problems maintaining their fleet of handguns in service without having to worry about how diligent & safe a reloader you are. But that doesn't bother me because I haven't reloaded in decades and I buy my brand new ammo pretty darn economically.

The range noise level varies a lot depending on how many folks are there and what they are shooting. It's not about what gun I'm using. It's about what gun(s) they are using. If there are some magnum revolver shooters and/or shotgun shooters, it is almost unbearable. Last visit, I tried "muffs only" for about 2 minutes and couldn't stand it. Then I went outside and added the plugs too. It helped... although it helped even more when the shotgunners (2 of them) left. Needless to say, I like to go on off-hours whenever I can.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:12 AM
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Despite keeping out of the freezing cold and snow (does that happen in Mass.?) .......the only good reason to shoot indoors is that you can bring your target to you instead of retrieving it .......and I actually like cleaning my guns afterward.....not so sure I'd enjoy cleaning someone else's though
That was my original thought in regard to the Groupon and the 4-month membership... i.e., be able to shoot in heated indoor space rather than in the freezing cold outside & mud (at my club) through at least part of this coming winter. But it wasn't until I started thinking about the other people's guns thang and how simple and easy and quick it would be... plus all the new guns I'd be able to try without having to clean any of them that it really made perfect sense to me!

When I go down to the club for shooting, I have to pack up half the house it seems. It's a chore. When I go to this nearby indoor range to shoot, I bring ammo, muffs and plugs in a tiny, little soft tool bag I bought at Walmart for $5.00. HUGE difference!!!

If I could only solve the damn noise level issue, I could almost justify joining the place.

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Old 10-08-2015, 06:50 AM
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See, ya gotta dig deeper in to my argument before you simply write it off.

Your way: many different guns, short drive, no cleaning of said guns. It's all good and I sure don't blame you for doing it.

However, with your way...
A slew of tupperware and other comparable soulless, newish tools. You admit... NO S&W 3rd Gens. Matter of fact, you'll be limited to (and I'll use your words) moonbat, MA-compliant stuff. Joy!

Visit some enthusiasts and the SKY is the limit rather than the legislature of the Commonwealth of former Free America.
Oh, I get your point. Honest, I do!

But here is the way I look at it: You need to know cheap, soulless, disposable, Tupperware bullet dispensing tools in order to fully appreciate our beloved, all-metal S&W 3rd Gen pistols.

I also need to figure out what I can buy in "brand spanking new" that will someday suffice since our beloved 3rd Gens are no longer being made or supported by the mothership. With every passing day, that pushes them further into the collectible/investment category and takes them further away from the practical everyday usage category. No, it's not an overnight thing by any means, but it's still something to think about as I continue to "trade up."

The truth is that I am already itching to figure out what that truest and worthy enough 3rd Gen substitute in "brand spanking new" might be. Obviously, many folks point to Sig or to 1911's or tell me to go back to revolvers, but I'm not yet convinced and I'm not even ready yet to fully write off Tupperware (although that might be a very tough sell... we'll see).

On the MA-compliant issue... sadly, I live where I live. And the reality is that I'll probably die here in MA too. The key is to learn to survive with it... i.e., to control what I can control, to get around when I can get around... and live with what I can't change. It's frustrating for sure, but family issues still trump all else. That's just the way it is.

Last edited by TTSH; 10-08-2015 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:50 AM
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I've been able to sample a lot of guns at the range through the years and swap guns with others. Even the lowliest of them are fun to shoot, but I certainly have my preferences.

If you shoot them enough, eventually something will wear out or break. As long as it isn't a frame barrel or slide it's no big deal. No mechanical device I know of is immune to wear and tear.

When I hear some shooters make excuses like the trigger is too heavy or they can't feel the reset or some other minor thing I just have to shake my head.

There's too many folks trying to make a racegun out of defensive pistols these days when most work quite well as they are.

I'm talking about the 5.5-6.5lb factory triggers in most striker fired guns, not the lawyer safe ones ya'll may be using.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:48 AM
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I've been able to sample a lot of guns at the range through the years and swap guns with others. Even the lowliest of them are fun to shoot, but I certainly have my preferences.

If you shoot them enough, eventually something will wear out or break. As long as it isn't a frame barrel or slide it's no big deal. No mechanical device I know of is immune to wear and tear.

When I hear some shooters make excuses like the trigger is too heavy or they can't feel the reset or some other minor thing I just have to shake my head.

There's too many folks trying to make a racegun out of defensive pistols these days when most work quite well as they are.

I'm talking about the 5.5-6.5lb factory triggers in most striker fired guns, not the lawyer safe ones ya'll may be using.
There is a lot of truth in what you're saying. Your eyes get opened when you start shooting lots of other people's guns... even sometimes when you own the very same model.

Since I got into 3rd Gens late (actually, just 2 years ago), all of my 3rd Gens are used guns. Some are very close to "as-new-in-box" and some are "used & abused"... and everything in-between. Two are just plain nasty. One I believe may be unfired. But I bought them all with my eyes wide open, in some cases as upgrades and in some cases as parts or potential project guns. One good thing: None of them so far have a MA AG-approved trigger.

On the other hand, the majority of my other guns (i.e., other than my 3rd Gens and SW99-series guns) were bought brand spanking new or very near brand new. Most have MA AG-approved triggers. When I buy a gun brand new, it *stays* in brand new condition or at least as close as one can reasonably achieve in that regard. That's why it is so interesting to me to be testing out all these very heavily used guns. I think you learn more about the general quality and durability (and shooting qualities) of a gun by getting this kind of an opportunity.

Trigger quality has always been a big issue with me as an "old school" kind of shooter... but learning to achieve excellent results with any type action and any trigger is something I thought would require a Hickok45 kind of skill & situation.

I can't say enough how pleased I am to find out that I was wrong.

Last edited by TTSH; 10-08-2015 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 10-08-2015, 02:40 PM
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TTSH, sincere apologies if -any- of my post(s) pushed the idea that you should move out of Mass. Not my intention. In fact, very much not my intention -- as a long time 'gun forum discussion' guy, I have long been annoyed by the endless unhelpful suggestion to folks in tough gun law places to "just move, man!" as if such a suggestion is even mildly helpful. <sigh>

It isn't helpful, it never has been. People have LIVES where they live and simply throwing your underwear in a box and moving 300-1500 miles away is simply not realistic.

My take -- totally directed around the guns and comparing the kinds of goodies you are getting a crack at right now versus the kinds of goodies that most of us in these forum pages hold near & dear.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:30 PM
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Does sound appealing getting to try other makes and models.I have not often had the luxury Getting the feeling of how a model fits in the hand, points, and the accuracy level goes a long way in deciding which is the right gun or guns to purchase.
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:48 PM
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TTSH, sincere apologies if -any- of my post(s) pushed the idea that you should move out of Mass. Not my intention. In fact, very much not my intention -- as a long time 'gun forum discussion' guy, I have long been annoyed by the endless unhelpful suggestion to folks in tough gun law places to "just move, man!" as if such a suggestion is even mildly helpful. <sigh>

It isn't helpful, it never has been. People have LIVES where they live and simply throwing your underwear in a box and moving 300-1500 miles away is simply not realistic.

My take -- totally directed around the guns and comparing the kinds of goodies you are getting a crack at right now versus the kinds of goodies that most of us in these forum pages hold near & dear.
No harm ever. Folks are right. I love just taking a day trip out of Massachusetts... just for the temporary breath of fresh air and freedom!

But family needs me here. That's just a fact of life. But if it gets bad enough, NH or even corrupt, bankrupt, drug addict-infested RI are still not totally ruled out.
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Old 10-10-2015, 07:54 PM
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Does sound appealing getting to try other makes and models. I have not often had the luxury Getting the feeling of how a model fits in the hand, points, and the accuracy level goes a long way in deciding which is the right gun or guns to purchase.
Yep. I'm really having a blast. Only thing is that it all ends in 3 months and they say I can't renew that nifty Groupon offer. So then it's back to my club's muddy, ****** outdoor range and cleaning my own guns.
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