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Old 02-11-2016, 10:31 AM
NH Old School NH Old School is offline
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Default Another minor issue with SW22 Victory

I've achieved a truce with the takedown screw backing out by simply tightening really really tight. I just wonder if it will wear out from putting that much torque on it. We'll see. You can call it a design issue or not, propose solutions like Loctite or not, but either way I don't like it. I'm not going to change my mind about that.

A few days ago I put about 150 rounds through it, switching off between the 2 mags. After a while, if I loaded 10 rounds, the second one failed to feed and was deformed in the bargain (bullet bent down from the case mouth). This happened every time after shooting a few dozen rounds. Upon examination I discovered that the mag follower was semi-stuck with a full mag. It was pushing up very slowly. Fed the first round because it was already at the top, but failed the second because the mag has to feed the round as fast as the bolt is cycling, and it wasn't even close. This did not occur if I only loaded 5 or 6, so that's what I did for the rest of the range outing.

When I got home I cleaned the mags thoroughly and oiled them. On my latest range trip I didn't have the problem. OK, gotta oil the mags. It's a polymer follower in a plated steel body. Shouldn't need lubrication. Compared to Ruger .22mags, these things feel cheap and flimsy. They don't take down for cleaning like a proper mag: you have to stick something in the slots and pull the spring away from the baseplate. Cheap.

On the plus side, the gun feels good in the hand, is nice and muzzle heavy as a target pistol should be, trigger isn't bad, shoots reasonably well, and the mag release is where it should be.

By and large I'm a big fan of S&W, mostly their revolvers. I was excited by the idea of this pistol, as it seemed like it would be easy to clean and I liked the way it looks. So far, I have to say I'm kind of disappointed. My old (bought it used in '96) Ruger MK II bull barrel target pistol is a better gun.
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:51 PM
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i use a long allen wrench and really tighten it down,,,,,,500 rounds no problem
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Old 02-18-2016, 04:49 PM
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I've got almost 600 rounds through mine and the last two sessions the barrel has not come loose. Must be getting the tighten just right. This gun is so easy to clean it is fun.

Not had any problems with the magazines. In fact today at the range I used a magazine I just got yesterday in the mail. Three mags beats two and I'll get two more sometime this year.

I did have problems with the gun jamming. I believe it is due to not paying attention to what ammo I was using as this is my first semi-auto .22 pistol and with my K-22 it didn't matter what ammo I used. It seems like as long as I buy ammo at or over 1200 ft/sec at the muzzle the gun operates fine.
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Old 02-20-2016, 01:41 PM
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Default German's have solved this for more than a century:

Well, Smith & Wesson could learn to do it the way the German's have solved this for more than a century:



These are called locking or capture screws.

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Old 02-20-2016, 06:36 PM
Kenneth L. Walters Kenneth L. Walters is offline
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Default Initial Problem

Never got to shoot mine. It was so hard to cock that I sent it back to the factory for repairs.
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Old 02-20-2016, 08:47 PM
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You lose the ability to torque a screw if it is locked with a secondary screw. Don't know if the Germans were the first to lock a screw with a screw as it has been widely used.

Torqueing and Loctite is a vastly superior method and an industry standard.
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Old 02-20-2016, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankcr View Post
You lose the ability to torque a screw if it is locked with a secondary screw.
The main (larger) screw has a circular cutout every 90 degrees around it. You can get close enough to the torque you want within 1/4 turn before you screw in the lock (smaller) screw.
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Old 02-20-2016, 09:09 PM
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I don't have any trouble with the take down screw coming loose. I have trouble BREAKING it loose!
I torqued it to 40 in./lbs. with my Wheeler F.A.T. Wrench to get a baseline torque value to see how low I can go and still keep the screw fast.
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Old 03-12-2016, 10:07 AM
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I had the same issue again yesterday: second round would not feed, out of either magazine if fully loaded. If I moved the button on the follower down a bit (lowered the follower in the mag) and released it, it was clear that something was gummed up or jammed. The mag was way too lethargic to function properly.

This time I spent a bit more time analyzing the problem. It's only bad enough to cause a malfunction with lead bullets, and the overall length of the round doesn't seem to matter (tried a few different brands). It seems to be a matter to the mag follower design pushing the bullets forward against the front of the mag, and the lube on the lead bullets sticking/gumming under pressure. So I tried oiling just the inside front of the mag fairly liberally, and it totally solved the problem. Temporarily. I won't know how long that fix will last until I get it out to the range again.

So, it seems that, in order to keep this gun running properly, you have to include in your range kit both an Allen wrench (in case the takedown screw comes loose), and some oil and Q-Tips to lube the inside front of the magazines.

It's a fun gun, very accurate, and has good ergonomics. Seems like it comes with a lot of baggage though. I mean, you take any of the similar Rugers out for a range session, and you just know they're going to work. The trade-off is that you have to know the little tricks to get the Ruger back together again after removing the mainspring housing and bolt. And you can't easily change barrels or sighting systems on a Ruger. So the Victory has some strong points too.

I wonder if S&W will make any slight design alterations to address the issues after a while.
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Old 03-12-2016, 10:08 AM
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If you're going to lube your magazines, don't leave them loaded . . .
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
If you're going to lube your magazines, don't leave them loaded . . .
Of course. This isn't a gun that I would leave loaded anyway. That's not really what it's for.
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Old 03-12-2016, 03:11 PM
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I know this is going to sound strange, it sure did when I was told to do it on a mould screw that would not stay tight . Take a few strands of 0000 steel wool and wrap around the lower half of the offending screw, it doesn't take much at all, just 1 or two strands, and screw it back in .
I'm not sure why it works, but the mould screw has not loosened scince doing it. It's cheap to try and not something that can't be undone .
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Old 03-15-2016, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
I know this is going to sound strange, it sure did when I was told to do it on a mould screw that would not stay tight . Take a few strands of 0000 steel wool and wrap around the lower half of the offending screw, it doesn't take much at all, just 1 or two strands, and screw it back in .
I'm not sure why it works, but the mould screw has not loosened scince doing it. It's cheap to try and not something that can't be undone .
Gary
Mixing steel wool and a stainless steel threaded frame may be a no no. Surface rust could result.
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Old 03-15-2016, 11:13 PM
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You have a steel screw in a stainless steel hole, so a less noble metal (iron wire) should not hurt. It would be the sacrificial member, but bronze wool would also serve to fill the gaps between the threads if you were concerned.

Worth a try if you have a screw which continues to work itself loose.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:47 AM
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My purple Loc Tite is still holding. I put small marks on the screw head and frame so I can see if there is any movement while shooting. I torqued the screw to 40 in/lbs. I cleaned the screw and hole with Acetone and put the Loc Tite on the starting end of the screw ran it in , backed it out and then back in and torqued it down. Let it set for 24 hours. The rail mount screw came lose yesterday. lol
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Old 03-16-2016, 10:04 AM
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One of my magazines if rough and doesn't feed 10 rounds well
I have tried polishing the follower button and the inside of the mag at the edges of the follower cutout
I haven't found the magic fix yet
Using candle wax as a lube on the inside of the slot works well for a little while
After several trips to the range I like the gun fine and consider on par with my mark II's
I also don't see that it has any real advantage over a Mark II
The Mark II takedown complaint goes away after you learn the trick
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Old 03-16-2016, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth L. Walters View Post
Never got to shoot mine. It was so hard to cock that I sent it back to the factory for repairs.
Never got to shoot mine either. Just went click, no bang. Its back at Smith right now. Hoping for a success story when it returns.
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Old 03-16-2016, 01:02 PM
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The screw on mine came loose after the first time I took it to the range and ran 100 rounds through it.I tightened it down and have had no other problem with it.
As of now,I have shot aproximatley 1000 rounds of CCI Mini Mag ammo through it with no magazine issues.
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Old 03-16-2016, 01:56 PM
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I was maybe 11 years old when I started hunting rabbits with a Rem #4 Take Down 22 rifle. Like the S&W it had a single take down screw, a quarter would fit the slot and took a second to tighten it when it loosened. Absolutely no big deal!
Carried a cut off nail that I could sling down the barrel when the extractor stripped the head off of a 22 to knock the shell out.

I cleaned it by pulling a brush from the chamber to the muzzle on a regular basis.

I fail to see where the Victory is such a problem!?

My suggestion would be to replace the screw with one with a large head that a coin would fit. Also to those who shoot semi autos, clean them or cuss them.
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotguntom View Post
Never got to shoot mine either. Just went click, no bang. Its back at Smith right now. Hoping for a success story when it returns.
Well 3 1/2 weeks later, my Victory arrived back home today.
Not a success story. According to the paperwork, they relaced the hammer and the sear. Went to the range, at appx 40 round mark, the gun stopped working again. Same problem. No trigger, no firing pin strike.
Im not too thrilled with this paperweight. Gun is heading back again to S&W tomorrow morning. Im thinking a possible Lemon here.
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Old 04-05-2016, 01:16 AM
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Very sorry to hear that, I know it is frustrating and hope they get it fixed for you.
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Old 04-05-2016, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger98 View Post
The screw on mine came loose after the first time I took it to the range and ran 100 rounds through it.I tightened it down and have had no other problem with it.
As of now,I have shot aproximatley 1000 rounds of CCI Mini Mag ammo through it with no magazine issues.
Which screw? ...the take down or the one that holds the barrel to the top frame? I am picking up mine tomorrow. On you tube someone is using a split washer on the take down screw and said that solved the loosening problem.
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth L. Walters View Post
Never got to shoot mine. It was so hard to cock that I sent it back to the factory for repairs.
My NIB Victory 22 got fired once and its extractor went lost, never to be found. I sent it in and got it back in about 3 weeks. The first range trip was a learning experience. The first 60 rounds ran fine, and then the trouble started. The first notable problem was the trigger wouldn't always reset which is something I've never experienced before.

I took it apart at home and the barrel/frame screw was very loose; when I first got the gun new the screw was extremely tight. The bolt and receiver were VERY heavily oiled(looked like motor oil). I hosed all the excess oil out, lubed the internals with very light Remoil and reassembled. I used blue locktite and a torque wrench to 40#. The gun now runs beautifully with every ammo brand I've tried and the screw is still tight.

I suggest cleaning every gun that comes back from factory repairs.
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Old 04-08-2016, 03:38 AM
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On the subject of rounds not being pushed up far/fast enough in the magazines:

A few years ago, I had the same problem with a Buckmark. The culprit turned out to be a combination of the temperature and the specific ammo I was trying to shoot.

The "Purple Box" Eley Sport (which is actually made by Aguila) had such a sticky lube on it that it would simply prevent the springs in the mags from being able to push them upwards after reloading the mags even once. Cool temperatures (anything below about 70 degrees F) made the problem worse.

The lube on that ammo is something like the stickier cross country ski wax if you've ever encountered that.

I had to clean the mags out with solvent before they were even usable with other ammo because the "Sport" crudded them up so badly. And as was mentioned above, the gunk manifested itself, as would be expected, right where the noses of the ammo rub against the inside of the fronts of the mags.

I like to keep magazines clean of any oil or grease, but I did resort to trying some dry silicone lube in those mags. I also tried installing higher force springs (the springs made for Ruger MK series magazines fit fine, and are stronger). None of that allows the use of that particular ammo.

So I just don't shoot that stuff out of any magazine fed guns. Plus, it's just not that accurate. Three or four good ones, then a flier. Bahh!

Don't confuse the Purple Box Eley Sport (really Aguila) with the actual Eley-made Eley Sport. The Eley-made stuff is dandy.

Anyhow, all of that was just to say that if the ammo you're using has a sticky lube on it, that may be the problem. It certainly was with my Buck Mark, and actually, that stuff jams 10-22s, Ruger MKs, etc., too. It's just amazingly sticky, adhesive stuff. Sort of like bee's wax, but worse!

If you were really into it, you could probably rub the very noses of the bullets on a solvent-soaked cloth or something like that to remove the goo just at the noses, but not back where it matters, and perhaps it'd run OK. But it really wasn't worth the hassle to me.

Here's how a magazine that has had some of that ammo in it looked:



It may have just been a particular batch that had that goo on it, but I'd bought a case of it, so it was disappointing.

People who lived down south, and had high temperatures reported decent luck with it. But here, in cooler temperatures, it was neither accurate or able to be used in any of my mag-fed semis.

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Old 04-08-2016, 08:14 AM
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When I use CCI AR Tactical in my S & W M & P 22C it does the same thing. It's really a pain to get all the wax out the magazines even though the rounds function very well. I still have a few boxes and I'd rather shoot other brands then deal with the mess.

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Old 04-08-2016, 03:46 PM
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I might suggest soaking them in some gasoline which should cut the glue very easily I would suspect. Pain in the butt but one way of cleaning your mags or bullets also.
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Old 04-09-2016, 01:00 AM
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Default SW22 screw comming loose below barrel

Hi: I am new to this thread and this is a very good topic on the loose screw. I have not had the chance to shoot one since I do not have one yet, but I have done a lot of research on this matter. I have talked to two Smith & Wesson cust. ser. personnel and two different answers. One tighten screw then give it a oomph, like a jerk on the allen, the other a little lite lock tite, and the last said there is no fix as of now. Do not let the screw keep you from the purchase. I agree with that. Look at it this way lifetime warranty, and they send you a shipping label. No cost to you as long as its not abuse. So that being said I ordered one good price and should be here in a couple weeks, i'll check it out and then I can give my opinion on it. Seven reasons that I bought it. Name brand, price, stainless, 2 mags, easy tear down, fiber optic sights and warranty.
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Old 06-06-2016, 07:10 PM
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Had my Victory for few months and use loctite blue. I have had problems with the screw coming loose, that's after about 1200 rounds. If yours is still coming loose, I would just upgrade the loctite to red and do not over-torque it. It would be nice to solve the problem with a lock washer, but not really designed that way.

My problem is the Victory Grips. They are horrible when the humidity goes up. I have average hands and I'm sliding off (down) the grips. No one is making custom or target grips yet, not even Hogue or Nill. Anyone have any ideas on a grip maker, I'm been using cloth tape to bulk up the grips, especially at the butt. Its kinda dangerous to shoot bullseye with it for fear of the shooting hand coming off the grip!
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:53 PM
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I am in search of grips also. May just buy the wood and make my own. I have gun stocks before and done hand checkering. I think when I buy the KDS or Volquaterson grips for my Mark III I may try to copy them to fit the Victory.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrittley View Post
Had my Victory for few months and use loctite blue. I have had problems with the screw coming loose, that's after about 1200 rounds. If yours is still coming loose, I would just upgrade the loctite to red and do not over-torque it. It would be nice to solve the problem with a lock washer, but not really designed that way.
My takedown screw started coming loose at 1200 rounds also. I solved this by applying Vibra-Tite VC-3 to the screw every 4th or 5th time I cleaned the pistol. Haven't had a problem with the screw since and I'm at over 2600 rounds through the Victory.

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My problem is the Victory Grips. They are horrible when the humidity goes up. I have average hands and I'm sliding off (down) the grips. No one is making custom or target grips yet, not even Hogue or Nill. Anyone have any ideas on a grip maker, I'm been using cloth tape to bulk up the grips, especially at the butt. Its kinda dangerous to shoot bullseye with it for fear of the shooting hand coming off the grip!
I'm using a Hogue Handall Full Size Grip Sleeve (got on Amazon for $7) until someone starts selling a dedicated target grip for the Victory. The word is that Volquartsen should have one available for the Victory soon.



This is the prototype Victory target grip Volquartsen developed for SHOT 2016. Looks sweet!
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:40 PM
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Oh yes that is going on my gun for sure. It will be VQ on both ends then the center doesn't need a thing.
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  #32  
Old 07-05-2016, 01:19 PM
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Hi All. Volquartsen has the Target Grips on their site now for pre-order at $150. They anticipate shipping to begin on 7/15 and they are offering them in several different colors. Go to https://www.volquartsen.com/products...s-for-the-sw22 to check them out. I definitely want better grips on my SW22 but I am undecided about these grips. I have lots of VQ products and they are top quality but these look like they might be a little large for my hands. I will be looking for feedback from anyone that gets them to see how they like them.
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Old 07-05-2016, 02:07 PM
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Default Take Down Screw

The Take down screw on the Victory is a 12-28 x 3/8 long Low Head SHCS.
What this means is it has to use a smaller wrench, 2 sizes smaller than your typical 12-28 shcs. Which uses a 5/32. You would get an ample amount of torque on the screw, plus it would not be so hard to break free, Plus the Socket Hex would have less chance of Stripping, for so much force being applied to a smaller hex.
Low head screws were designed to work in area's where height was an issue, they really are not the best to use when you really need to torque something down, as they are more difficult to break loose. The screw should not wear out from being tightened down. I will either buy a standard 12-28 SHCS, with the 5/32 hex, or I will modify the existing hex to 5/32 should it give me trouble. IF you buy a small piece of pipe, 1/8 NPT x 4-5 inches long, it should give you enough leverage for easily breaking the screw loose.
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Old 07-05-2016, 04:46 PM
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Default Victory purchase

I'm too old to wait for Victory problems to be solved...will just stick with my S&W Models 17 and 18 and Rugers I and Ii. Life is too short to wait for screw bugs to be resolved!!! Regards, Ed
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Old 07-05-2016, 04:57 PM
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So far very happy with the purchase. Feels great, shoots great. Tightening the screw every now and then is easy peasy. Only bad thing is the wife shot it and now wants one. But then is that really a bad thing?
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Old 07-05-2016, 10:34 PM
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I would try torqueing this screw down to around 40Inch lbs or use a No. 61 rubber O-ring on it instead. I have heard really good results with both suggestions. No I have not tried it myself as I don't own one of these Victorys as yet.
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:10 PM
dfraser67 dfraser67 is offline
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Default Rubber O Ring

Put a small rubber o ring on the takedown screw after first cleaning. 2 trips to the range and haven't had any problems with screw coming loose.
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:37 PM
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I planned on taking my SW22 Victory to my LGS to sell for me, but the car wouldn't start so I still have it. It will make it to the LGS soon.
This gun isn't near as dependable as my Ruger MKII that is over 30 years old. Yes the take down is more time consuming but then again I find that I seldom have to do more than a spray down and wiped clean.
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfraser67 View Post
Put a small rubber o ring on the takedown screw after first cleaning. 2 trips to the range and haven't had any problems with screw coming loose.
Exactly what I did with mine. No issue with screw coming loose at all.
Now a non issue. Cost 5 cents.
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  #40  
Old 09-22-2016, 07:12 PM
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Such a easy and cheap permanent fix for so little cost. One O-ring should last you for years.
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Old 10-09-2016, 02:17 AM
Aussie From Aussie Aussie From Aussie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NH Old School View Post
I've achieved a truce with the takedown screw backing out by simply tightening really really tight. I just wonder if it will wear out from putting that much torque on it. We'll see. You can call it a design issue or not, propose solutions like Loctite or not, but either way I don't like it. I'm not going to change my mind about that.

A few days ago I put about 150 rounds through it, switching off between the 2 mags. After a while, if I loaded 10 rounds, the second one failed to feed and was deformed in the bargain (bullet bent down from the case mouth). This happened every time after shooting a few dozen rounds. Upon examination I discovered that the mag follower was semi-stuck with a full mag. It was pushing up very slowly. Fed the first round because it was already at the top, but failed the second because the mag has to feed the round as fast as the bolt is cycling, and it wasn't even close. This did not occur if I only loaded 5 or 6, so that's what I did for the rest of the range outing.

When I got home I cleaned the mags thoroughly and oiled them. On my latest range trip I didn't have the problem. OK, gotta oil the mags. It's a polymer follower in a plated steel body. Shouldn't need lubrication. Compared to Ruger .22mags, these things feel cheap and flimsy. They don't take down for cleaning like a proper mag: you have to stick something in the slots and pull the spring away from the baseplate. Cheap.

On the plus side, the gun feels good in the hand, is nice and muzzle heavy as a target pistol should be, trigger isn't bad, shoots reasonably well, and the mag release is where it should be.

By and large I'm a big fan of S&W, mostly their revolvers. I was excited by the idea of this pistol, as it seemed like it would be easy to clean and I liked the way it looks. So far, I have to say I'm kind of disappointed. My old (bought it used in '96) Ruger MK II bull barrel target pistol is a better gun.

[QUOTE=Aussie From Aussie] (New to this. Hope I'm doing this right); I'd feel the same as you Old School. Eventually I reckon the thread would weaken and eventually strip. On a mate's suggestion I dribbled a bit of nail polish, that's right, what chicks put on their long finger nails to stop them from breaking, a bit of nail polish on the top threads after cleaning all threads with metho and blowing them off. I tightened it quite firmly without going overboard and it didn't move after 500+ rounds.
It took a bit of pressure to eventually break the bond but everything was OK.
Incidentally I have a Mk3 Ruger and I compared both mags. I've never had reason to disassemble either of them but I felt the quality of both were even. However, the Victory spring was definitely a shade weaker than the Ruger which brings me to the failure to chamber prob. Once again on advice I stripped it down and thoroughly cleaned it and with a wire brush and strong lead remover I gave it a hiding scrubbing like buggery just at the barrel entrance. I wasn't game to use a drill as my mate suggested but next day I fired off 85 rounds with one eject failure which was a first but all chambered OK. I cleaned and lubed it with Ballistol squirting it freely inside the mag and blowing it out with compressed air. So far so good fingers crossed.
I agree with you in that the Victory has a lovely grip but the Ruger is a better gun and certainly looks more like a real gun. Having said this, I bought a second Mk3 Ruger which was an absolute bummer! Couldn't get 3 shots off without failing to eject. Fixed it with a Volquartsen extractor but the trigger is terrible. I'm looking to replace that with a VQ as well. You wouldn't believe two identical guns could be so different.
Here's to ya......Aussie From Aussie [QUOTE]
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  #42  
Old 10-10-2016, 12:13 AM
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Aussie Welcome to the forum. I suggest you try using a no.61 O-ring on the barrel screw and then tighten it down to around 40 inch lbs of torque. You won't need any more nail polish on the threads by doing this. The O-rings are very cheap and will last for many years as well.
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  #43  
Old 10-22-2016, 02:23 PM
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My first trip to the range with the Victory resulted in a loosened takedown screw. I figured I might have gotten some lube in there when I initially cleaned and oiled the gun before that first shoot. Now, before I reattach the barrel, I spray a Q-Tip with automotive brake cleaner and then revolve it around in the screws hole, and then wipe the screw down with the wet Q-Tip. Then I tighten normally, maybe a tad "over" normal, with a standard allen wrench. I've never had a loosening problem since. The screw stays tight no matter how many hundreds of rounds I put through the gun in a shooting session. At the next cleaning, there is a definite "snap" sound as the screw breaks loose. I was initially worried about this, but it appears to be harmless. I think I might try the O-ring that has been mentioned here, just to get rid of that "snap" sound when I break the screw loose for cleaning. Even though that appears harmless, my brain is still worried about it in the back of my mind.

BTW, my Victory has never jammed, failed to feed, failed to extract, or malfunction in any way over the approximately 2000 rounds I've put through it (if you ignore that one initial instance of barrel loosening). Generally I shoot Aguila Super Extra high velocity rounds (pretty equivalent to CCI MiniMags in my experience). But I've also put some crappy bulk ammos like Federal through the Victory with zero problems. I was glad to see the Victory could stomach that Federal junk. My other .22LR pistols hate it and jam quite a bit with it. The Victory assisted me in "getting rid of it". Thanks Victory! My experience is the Victory will work with every .22LR ammo I've tried in it, and do so flawlessly (about six different offerings I've tried).

I prefer the Victory over my old Ruger Mark II Target and my Ruger Mark III 22/45 Lite and my Ruger SR22. Those are all good guns too, but I just prefer the Victory. They are all roughly equivalent in accuracy (maybe not the SR22, but it's still decent). My preference for the Victory is probably because the Rugers all jam on occasion, are more ammo sensitive, and are more sensitive to being dirty ... whereas the Victory just goes and goes and goes. The Victory has earned a permanent place in my ready-to-go range bag. It goes on every shooting expedition. I put a Vortex Venom 3 MOA red-dot on the Victory, and that combination is very nice.
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  #44  
Old 10-22-2016, 05:50 PM
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Federal & CCI sent my Victory back to the factory 3 times now, get her back tomorrow.


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  #45  
Old 10-22-2016, 08:40 PM
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Ed Fowler,

What are we looking at? I can tell that they are .22 LR cases, but what the heck happened to them?

I don't see how that can happen INSIDE a chamber.

Were they stuck in the chamber and this is what they looked like when you dug them out?

Please, give us more information. Also, what were the other problems you sent it back for?
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  #46  
Old 10-22-2016, 09:09 PM
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You are looking at the result of a huge overload. Was much louder than any normal 22 I have ever shot, much black smoke out of the action, and it blew the extractor out of the pistol S&W repaired it and had to replace the barrel, bolt, extractor and firing pin.

Action was in battery when I pulled the trigger, I had been doing some long range shooting and put the safety on after every shot to check bullet impact at 100 yards through my field glasses. I can post many more photos, but you get the idea.

I have had three of these events in the last year and 1/2, one with CCI Blazer, one with Federal Target and this one with Federal Auto Match. Federal claims they fired out of battery, I know it was in battery when it fired and believe the extra pressure opened the action before the bullet had left the barrel thus the case ruptured.

I usually shoot over 100 rounds a day, I know this is not a common event and the odds are against it happening but I am tired of it and tired of it happening to me and hearing CCI and Federal customer service blaming the firearm.

Smith & Wesson just keeps fixing it and I am thankful that Smith & Wesson backs their product 200%.

Thanks for asking.

I still have the box of Federal Auto Match ammo, only shot abut 30 before this happened. The ones I fired were very irregular, BANG, pop, boom kind of stuff, very lacking in accuracy. I kept the box and plan on weighing all the cartridges and then maybe play with the manufacturers. If anybody wants to shoot some of it, stop by but bring your own firearm.

Last edited by Ed Fowler; 10-22-2016 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 10-22-2016, 11:17 PM
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I have put over 650 rounds of Federal Automatch ....and 200 rounds of Federal Champion.....no issues at all.
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  #48  
Old 10-23-2016, 12:03 AM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is online now
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Ed Fowler,

I have two 22 Victorys, one is box stock and the other has a Volquartsen barrel and other goodies. I also have a Ruger Mark III 22/45 Lite which I use along with the Victory to shoot speed steel matches. I am using Federal AutoMatch in all these guns. The AutoMatch ammo is very inconsistent from round to round. I have encountered rounds that are very wimpy and others that are noticeably HOT! No blowouts or other mishaps YET.

Your blown out brass is amazing and looks exactly like an OOB which many of us have seen in S&W 15-22s. I don't doubt you but can't imagine how it happens.
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  #49  
Old 10-23-2016, 01:39 AM
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They tell me the rounds are OOB, I know that not one of them fired out of battery.

My gun smith and I have been working with it for some time, tried to make some fire OOB and can't make it happen.

We have come up with the following hypothesis: The round comes into battery, fires and the bullet starts down the barrel, the pressure is too great and the action opens before the bullet has left the barrel, therefore the case is the weakest point and it blows.

We have pulled bullets and tried to make 22 rim fires fire OOB and can't make it happen in a well made firearm.

Overcharges simply blow the case, sometimes damage the firearm.

Some cartridges detonate, in my experience these are very loud, produce much black smoke that blows out of the action, depending on the firearm some out of the trigger, sends extractors flying, damages actions and barrels. I feel these are double charges or more of priming compound.

Mistakes are going to happen both in the firearms and in the ammunition, I just hate to see the firearms makers take the mistakes of the ammunition folks on the chin.
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Fowler View Post
They tell me the rounds are OOB, I know that not one of them fired out of battery.
How do you determine this?

You said you had three of these incidents in the last 1-1/2 years, that sounds more like a firearm problem than an ammunition problem at first glance. Many shooters never see this type of event, or maybe only one or two in their lives. You're seeing it very frequently (relatively speaking), and with different types/brands of ammo, all in the same gun.

I wonder if somehow your ammo could be getting contaminated with oils, moisture, etc. Causing the powder to have a slower burn rate than it should. Could that cause something like you are suggesting with "bullet still in the barrel when action starts to open"? I don't know. Just speculating, based on the fact that you're having so many of these failures. It's either got to be the gun, or some common defect in the ammo, possibly brought on by the environment you're storing the ammo in.
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