Okay boys Heres one I need help with. Loaned the 4006 to the Ex's son. Returned and put away then when I went to check it to carry and the slide is jammed TIGHT.Hes not anywhere around to ask the history . Dropped the hammer 10 times to make sure nothing would happen and started on it. Put the muzzle on the bench and slammed the pistol grip and got the slide to move back a bit. (see the pic) Now can see the base of the brass and measured to make sure its not HOT. Seems to be just the brass and now the slide will only move back and forth an 1/8 inch. Tried to drive the slide with a brass hammer and nothing. Put the weapon in a vise with one jaw on the beavertail and one (with a socket over the recoil guide rod) in the other and Cranked it down. Solid still. Stood it upright with the pressure on and filled the barrel with penetrating oil and let it sit for two days thinking the pressure might make the bind fail. Beat the vise with a 32 oz framing hammer to "shock" the bind and nothing.Beat a fiberglass rod to death on the brass down the barrel. Put steel rod down the barrel and bumped the brass and still nothing. Before I put this in a hydraulic press and replace parts thought I might pick some brains. The nearest competent gun smith is a 100 miles from me so thought I'd give it a whirl.Pictures show the edge of the brass from the side and bottom,depth of both tests of barrel. ANY IDEAS???? Foxy

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If mine I would first try tapping barrel hood downward while pulling rearward on the slide.

I'm thinking that brass is tight in the chamber.

If that didn't work I would use same technique but with a dowel down the muzzle with a tap on the dowel at the same time. A friend might be helpful.

I had a similar thing happen with my 45APC pistol a few years ago now. I ended up installing it in my vice and useing a wrench with the open end to go over the slide end and hit it with a hammer. It was a swollen cartridge inside that had jammed mine up. I have rubber grips for my vice which will grab the gun very tightly and stay in place when locked down very tightly. This did not take very long to make it work at all. A couple of good blows from the hammer and it popped open enough to get the caseing out. I gave it a good cleaning and lube job and its back in the lineup ever since.

Thats about the next thing static pressure hasn't done anything. Gonna' take impact i think?? This seems to be an empty brass. Thought about a socket over the barrel and a good straight hit. Foxy

Perhaps a squib round followed by a good round, causing a swollen barrel? If so, the barrel would need to be carefully cut out from the inside by a PRO and a replacement barrel procured. You can take a fine pick and run it on the inside of the barrel and "feel" to find if the barrel is swollen

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It is the Indian not the arrow

I'm kinda thinking junior was shooting some questionable ammo in there.

First, try detail stripping the frame as far as you can. I would want to rule out the possibility of a broken ejector binding up the slide before taking more severe steps. This means pulling the grip then the sideplate. Removing the hammer assembly then see if the ejector is loose in there and perhaps free things up.

Still stuck? Time for plan B
Clamp the bare frame securely in a bench vise using either padded jaws or some hardwood blocks. Use a long drift punch down the barrel and beat the snot out of it. I wouldn't stick threaded rod down the barrel for fear of damaging the rifling. If you cant find a suitable punch that will fit and is long enough, look for a piece of drill rod or drill blank that'll fit the bore.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

I used the threaded rod to see if the round was live or not. looking the best I could down the barrel I couldn't tell if i was seeing a hollow point or a brass case. Using the small screwdriver i had a measurement perhaps in the cavity and the threaded rod wouldn't fit in a hollowpoint cavity and I had the same measurement. Going to the machine shop in the am. hope I fix it since they do have a 250 ton hydraulic press which should be able to press something!!

Had an M&P9 do that, ended up being a bulged barrel, was tight in the slide and wouldn't budge. Squib followed by another round pushed both out. agree with the above,, find a gunsmith to cut the barrel out from the inside. in just the right light you might be able to see the bulge inside the barrel now that you have determined that its DEFINATELY a spent round. ( probably will catch he!! for suggesting he look down the barrel)

If its a swollen barrel, this plan ^^ will likely de-mil your 4006

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It is the Indian not the arrow

Thought of the barrel bulge. Looked in the barrel and really didn't see anything obvious,rifling looks right. The slide wont go forward at this time either so maybe the vise pressure locked it there. But the slide moves freely back and forth 1/8 of an inch so it seems if the barrel had it hung it wouldn't move at all. When I started it wouldn't move at all,then when I got the slide back a bit then it would "slide " back and forth the 1/8th inch. Foxy

Hydraulic press is not a good idea. Secure the frame and drive against the breechface with a long drift to knock it open. This after ruling out a broken ejector tying up the gun. The breech should unlock & open with this tactic even with a slight barrel bulge although a bulged barrel may push the barrel bushing out the front. Messing with a 250 ton press will likely destroy the gun. I can't even think of a way to fixture a pistol vertically on a arbor press that wont result in wreckage. Perhaps you should consider seeking help from a local pistolsmith?

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

I bought some compact pistols and loaded them as I would my 5943 full size. The bullets got stuck in the leade and I had to hit the front of the slide with enough force to pull the bullet (wow) and then knock the bullet out of the barrel with a dowel. Doesn't sound like your case but weird things happen. Oh, I found that hammering the square wood handle of a wire brush was perfect for knocking the front of the slide to open it.

Again, this doesn't apply to your but I bought a Kel tec that the recoil spring jumped out of its retaining notch and sprung down the pistol, locking it up good. I had dealt with some tough jams but this wouldn't budge. The factory told me to send it back because they would have to take it apart.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

This is the way I would go.

John

I was just mentioning the press as " Smith don't mess with me as I might not have a shootable 40 but I'll know what happened." Kinda' like showing the bad guy a 45 when he only has a BB pistol.I'll get stung but you'll lose.What I'm confused with is the slide moves right now just as easy as it should but only 1/8 inch or so. Thinking it might be something like a popped primer as another member suggested gumming up the works.Had just about the same thing last year with my pre 64 264 win mag. Loaded it in the dark,bolt was stiff but closed. Shot a hog and couldn't get the brass out. Tapping,beating same scenario. Had to ship it to the gunsmith,he couldn't get it loose and had to ream the chamber to clear it. Some of the other rounds in the box had some white corrosion around the bullet or primer and a few had a spot or two on the case. Acted like the best gorilla glue around I guess. These were Remingtons, the Winchesters, stored the same, were bright and shiny. Shoots good now Foxy

I don't know the exact measurements on S&W but a 1911 slide moves .090" rearward then drops out of battery.

Your Smith is very similar. The slide moves straight back then tips down out of battery.

Hitting the slide rearward is putting all the force on the extractor hook.

Keep it up and you'll break it off.

Go to post #2 and try this.

That's what we are going to try first. But if you look at the pics the slide is 5/8 or so back already. tried to drive it back forward into battery but it wont move at all. got it this far back with the clear at the range technique of muzzle on the bench and pound the grip. Case moved back to clear the chamber some. so I'm thinking its not bound by the case since its moved some already.

And if it is the case causing the problem it is tight on the extractor and wedged against the breech face like a doorstop. The barrel needs to drop as it pulls to the rear.

Well just got back from the machine shop. They make AR's uppers and lowers. My friend is the head guy and all workers are veterans. No luck,tried everything ,Last attempt was in the vice with metal drift pin and dead blow hammer. Tried to push down on the barrel hood,nothing,Hammer assembly is apart,extractor seems fine, so Monday it ships to a retired US Army armorer. 25 plus years experience for the Army, Will keep ya'll in the loop. General conscientious is a ruptured case We'll see- to be continued Foxy

A couple thoughts and questions would occur to me, before I'd start banging away on the gun with increasingly bigger hammers.

Do we have any idea what ammunition was being used the last time it was fired? Was the gun put away and returned because it stopped working?

Is the rear of the firing pin sticking out normally? Even if so, that doesn't mean the front may not be broken off and stuck inside the primer pocket, which is preventing the brass, and barrel, from dropping.

I think I'd probably try to remove the manual safety assembly, and hopefully the firing pin (to check for damage). In order to do that, I'd start by removing the rear sight, to get the plungers out of the way (especially the steel FP safety plunger, so the FP could hopefully be removed).

Does the front inch or so of the barrel's bore appear as though the barrel may be "ringed" at that spot, from an obstructed bore event? Might offer another explanation why the barrel doesn't want to budge any further through the slide's bushing. If it is ringed, trying to push that ringed spot through the slide's pressed barrel bushing risks damaging the slide's bushing.

Does any magazine returned with the gun show any signs of damage, or heavy carbon fouling on the magazine or follower? Any cracks in the sides of the grip? The front edges of the grip, in the middle where the "hooks" catch the front of the frame windows, not bulged (before or after the grip was removed from the frame)?

Your last pic is out of focus. Can you see up inside the magazine well to see the bottom of the barrel's feedramp? Does it look like any brass debris is protruding (case head failure/blowout)?

You keep banging around on the gun, sooner or later you might bend or crack something in the frame and/or slide.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

The barrel and all parts seems fine. The pic from the magazine well the brass seems to be normal. Everything looks correct,but something isn't. I'm sure the weapon was returned because of this and shows that he tried to clear it from marks on the front of the slide. Have no idea what ammo was used. If the armorer who like your self ,is retired after 25 years service, cant figure it out I'm thinking maybe drilling the case with a 1/16th drill bit to try and get the rim to rip off and maybe then the slide would move to field strip it. and like you said beating isn't working. Foxy

Instead simply push in on the tail of the extractor and it will disengage from the rim!

Since the slide is this far back the barrel has already been cammed down as far as it will go. Try using a nylon punch and drive down on the barrel hood to be sure the locking lugs are disengaged and then try to move the slide while holding the extractor in (disengaged).

Finally, and I hope this isn't the situation, possibly it is battering of the locking lugs! Have you noticed any burring of the locking lugs and their recesses in the slide when cleaning the gun? I was my departments armorer during a large part of the time we had Model 39s. The 39 and 59 use the same top end, so this applies to either model ( or series for that matter). Due to improper fitting of barrels to slides (Not S&Ws fault!!!, Prior armorer.) we had quite a few guns that experienced severe battering of the barrel and slide lugs. Typically the gun would lock up severely and suddenly while shooting it. Sometimes when it closed, sometimes when the slide came back when cycling. When this happened it took simple brute force to first drive the slide back so the slide stop could be removed, and then driving the slide and barrel forward off the frame. The barrel and slide could then be disassembled normally.

NOTE: Use a soft faced or dead-blow hammer, no brass, steel etc. or you will definitely destroy it.

Once the above damage occurred I would salvage the rear sight, safety and associated parts, and the extractor. The barrel and slide went back to S&W in exchange for new parts!

Another possible situation is shown in the attached pictures. This is not a S&W, it is a Tanfoglio .41 Action Express barrel. The function is identical to the S&W guns however, and when this happened the gun behaved just as our Model 39s did. And, please, no speculation as to what happened! I made the cases from .41 Magnum, loaded the ammunition which was well below what should have been a maximum! Charged cases inspected 100% for charge volume before seating bullets. There was virtually no damage to the gun and a new barrel fixed it and it has been shot considerably since this event. Nothing typical of a KB, just a soft "Pfft" sort of sound and the gun was locked tighter that a rat's butt. IT WAS NOT A SQUIB!!! I was chronographing the load and the previous rounds all registered. The one that did the damage did too, less than 500 FPS! This was not a high pressure event!

It will be interesting to see what you find when you get this apart.

I have more pictures if anyone wants to see them! Note the distinct bend in the second photo, this is what made it so hard to get the barrel and slide apart!

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	Crack Through Lug in Radiius.jpg (78.2 KB, 172 views)
	Top Crack - Rear.jpg (29.7 KB, 158 views)

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Has the inside of the barrel been closely examined, as much as is possible, (unless one of your machinists has a small scope?), to see if a barrel obstruction or over-pressure event might've damaged the barrel?

This may not be possible to see (from the muzzle) if the chamber has been blown/peeled where the stuck case is blocking your view, though.

Sometimes a slightly ringed barrel may not be so easily noted by the eye. For example, if a barrel can be removed from a slide, sometimes a slight bulge can be detected if the barrel is inserted, muzzle first (backwards) into the slide's "bushing" opening. If the barrel stops before the hood/lug is reached, there might be a very slight bulge not so easily noticed by the human eye.

If the firing pin checks out fine, and the chambered case isn't being held fast by the FP nose being stuck inside the primer ... and the barrel isn't ringed/bulged ... I'd be wondering if the something happened with an over-pressure load (bullet setback, overcharge, etc) which somehow caused the barrel/frame camming lugs to fail to engage normally. If so, you could have a damaged, "welded" mess inside, meaning damage to the camming surfaces which can't be fixed.

I'd still not rule out some other things that could've gone wrong, of course. Like a guide rod which came apart at the head/collar, and is somehow mangled in some weird manner.

This really deserves the attention of a smith experienced with S&W 3rd gen's, or a factory tech (who may have seen something of this sort at one time or another).

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Well, Alk8944 and I were busy posting at the same time. If I'd seen his posting before I'd written mine, I could've saved myself the trouble.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

The tail of the extractor can be pushed and no effect on the jam.You can see plastic marks in the picture. Tried down pressure on the barrel hood,no effect. Got the slide back this far with as I said range clearing method,muzzle down on the bench and pounded the back of the grips with my palm. Now the slide will not return to battery either driving or steady As far as I know it was shot with factory ammo. At least that is what was sent with it and some came back with it.

Also if you look at the second photo you can see the barrel hood is moved downward.

Also the firing pin looks fine,is spring loaded and moves easy as pie in and out -1/8th-!/4th inch. Foxy

Does that mean the firing pin has been removed? Otherwise, how can you tell if the front of it has been broken off and stuck in the case's primer?

Also, even if the FP nose isn't broken off, if the FP can be removed, then a strong light might be able to let you look down the FP channel and see if a ruptured primer has allowed some primer flow to occur (back into the breech face), which could also be binding the case and preventing it from dropping further (and therefore, the barrel).

Binding caused by damaged camming lugs on the side of the barrel and inside the frame can be more problematic, and may well mean the barrel and frame are toast. They stopped making runs of the older 4006 barrels back in the mid 2000's, as the CHP here in CA discovered when they found some of their well-worn and aged 4006's needed new barrels. As I understand, the company had to laboriously hand-modify the thicker TSW barrels to make some repair barrels that would fit in the older 4006's.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Well the armorer Has had the Smith for a about a week now and no word yet other then -***, It makes no sense- when he first saw it. I'll keep ya'll in the loop,he was to work on it this weekend if possible. Foxy

Have you beaten that half wit of an ex's son within an inch of his life yet?

Would but hes gone somewhere???? and cant beat her since shes gone too!!! but did think of kicking the cat.......Foxy

I agree with BMCM and Fastbolt the barrel has to drop to allow slide to unlock. I have over a dozen 3rd gen smiths but I bow to the superior knowledge and expertise of these two and several other forum members when it comes to issues such as these. BMCM could probably build you a complete 4006 from scrap aluminum and stainless forks and spoons.

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Jim in Iowa

Subscribing. What a pickle!

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NRA LIFE
Reserve Officer 9yrs

Yep. That's a fact.

And here's the weirdest part: I'd actually be willing to buy that gun!

Foxy, please keep us in the loop on this one. We gotta see how this turns out.

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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

Didn't you just buy one?

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Vietnam Veteran, 68-69

Grab the slide with your off hand and take strong hand and literally palm the **** out of the grip.



This happened to me once with a Corbon 115 and a ****ty LWD barrel. Had to call them and he talked to me when it was stuck...

A Model 4006? Not recently.

That was many months ago.

@ deaheat, That has been done many times and is how I got the slid back as far as it is now If you read the post we are now up to the gun in a press and trying to get the slide to move either forward into battery or back to release. If you look at the picture you can see the barrel is dropped some and its not going anywhere else,its like the slide is welded right where it is. Foxy

maybe one of the 3 little levers that stick out top of frame is broke and sticking up ? would keep slide from moving back

The pro has it still and has just been super busy building ar's. He's gonna look at it for me as a favor. He's built many competition 1911's and should be able to figure it out,soon i hope cause I'm curious too!!! Foxy

Okay here's an update, the frame is stripped as far as it can, hammers out,firing pin is out,and I believe he said the trigger is out. Can't get the extractor to release the brass at all. And the slide is stuck just as solid as it was. I don't know his next plan of action. Told him to cut the extractor if need be. I think he's going to put the frame in a vise and get his brass drift pin and "tap/smack" the brass until something gives. The synopsis right now seems to be tiny aliens went down the bore and practiced their intergalactic welding techniques ..... Foxy

LOL!!! I hate it when that happens!

I'd risk driving out the extractor pin to remove the extractor instead of "cutting" it. Going to be under some tension, though, even if the slide is held in a vise (manual safety assembly removed). He probably has a really large bench vise, though.

Might damage a 1/16" pin punch used to finish driving out the pin (and will require something used as a "starter punch" to break the pin loose, without wallowing out the top of the hole). Of course, broken 1/16" pin punches often become "starter punches" in their next life.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Has your GS run a rod down the muzzle that fits in the brass and tap it out while pulling on the slide. The worst you would think is the brass will come apart and so will the gun.

Can't be done.. pin drives down into the frame rail cut. No where for the pin to go while on the frame.

There is no problem that can't be solved by using a large enough hammer! :-)

I beat a fiberglas rod to death as one of the first options down the bore. then went to a steel drift pin, the brass doesn't move. The extractor "lifts" up and down on the brass,I.E. push on the back of it it lifts. Tried that first also. Makes no sense to me seems every thing is correct yet........? Foxy

I'm wondering if a piece of SS has sheered off of the barrel locking lug and is somehow trapped between the lug and the inside of the slide? Has the slide/barrel portion of the gun been soaked in penetrant or solvent? Perhaps it would free up the obstruction? Or.... have you tried pushing the slide back forward a bit?

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Soaked the weapon in PB blaster and have tried to go back to battery with no luck. I got the slide that far back using the range clear of muzzle down on the bench and pounding the the grip After the soaking.Slide wont go forward at all but moves a little bit back and forth 1/16 inch. I think its something with the barrel locked up but its in the hands of the guru now. We'll see.....to be continued...

Just thinking out of the box, could it be viable to sacrifice the slide stop lever by grinding/drilling out the tab which rides against the inside of the left side of the slide, driving it out to the left (just like during takedown) and separating the slide/barrel off the front of the frame? This is an interesting thread, and so far all the efforts have been concentrated on cycling the slide to the rear, which is going to risk bashing up the locking surfaces on the frame/slide/barrel which are going to be hard to find any replacements for.

ETA: I was tinkering with a 5946 with the slide stop lever removed, this could only be possible if you can get the slide is fully forward into battery first, otherwise the bottom rear edge of the barrel will not clear the frame going forward. From the symptoms being described by the OP, I strongly suspect it is not the brass stuck in the breech freezing it in place, but something is awry where the barrel meets the frame or a there is a tangled up recoil spring/rod assembly.