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Old 03-02-2016, 01:08 AM
gman51 gman51 is offline
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Default S&W Victory sw22

I got my new S&W Victory sw22 today. I put 200 rounds through it and was knocking a small pill bottle all around.
I read about the take down allen screw can come loose and yep mine did just that. That probably was what cause the gun twice to fail to pick up the next round and once an ejected casing got caught by the slide. I will have to keep an eye on that screw staying tight.
The gun is as accurate as I am. HA HA if that is saying anything. The sights make picking up the target really quick even in bright sunlight.
The trigger is very light which caused a few zingers. This gun IMO was made with all a shooter could want. Comes with a rail so if I want to add a scope or red dot I can very easily.
The grips fit my hand really good and the trigger reach is perfect for me as well.
Take down for field stripping couldn't be easier. Unlike my Ruger MKII that is a filed stripping nightmare revisited.

I am actually surprised S&W hasn't priced it higher. I got mine for $349.95 +tax. I am well pleased with this 22lr pistol. S&W did it right on this gun.
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Old 03-02-2016, 03:25 AM
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I have a question. The manual says the gun is not to be dry fired so how am I supposed to not dry fire it when after cleaning? I rack the slide to make sure it is functioning correctly after reassembling which cocks the gun. I don't want to put the gun in storage with it cocked and I sure as heck don't want to load it and shoot it to uncock it then put it in storage dirty. Also after I am done shooting the bolt locks open and I am not going to leave the bolt open so I close it which again cocks the gun.
What's the answer here?

Last edited by gman51; 03-02-2016 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 03-02-2016, 04:02 AM
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A snap cap?
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Old 03-02-2016, 04:06 AM
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It will do absolutely no harm to keep it cocked; if you must, keep some .22 LR empties after your next range session, chamber one so the firing pin will hit an unused portion of the rim and "dry fire" after cleaning.
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Old 03-02-2016, 07:34 AM
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What the dog said. That's exactly what I do with all my rimfire handguns and rifles.

Ed
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:43 AM
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I prefer to use dry wall anchors for .22 snap caps. They work very well. This thread describes the exact type of anchors.
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:47 AM
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You are correct it is a great pistol and you have to keep watching the set screw. Mine seems to be good for about 100 rounds. If I remember to bring the allen wrench there is no problem.

I set the safety after cleaning and remove it when the pistol has a loaded mag and is pointing downrange.

If you want the snap caps the anchors are the way to go.
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:15 PM
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I just crawled out from under a rock in a cave, and heard about this pistol from a S&W marketing email. It worked cuz now I'm getting one. Good intel on the loosening screws. Need more leverage to tighten, some light loc-tite? Forgive my elementary questions, have not seen nor held the pistol.
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Old 03-02-2016, 02:29 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreativecid View Post
I just crawled out from under a rock in a cave, and heard about this pistol from a S&W marketing email. It worked cuz now I'm getting one. Good intel on the loosening screws. Need more leverage to tighten, some light loc-tite? Forgive my elementary questions, have not seen nor held the pistol.
I own one of these bought a month ago. When I disassembled for initial cleaning, my hex screw was so tight I had to use an extension to the allen wrench to turn the screw. There is a thread on this forum that discusses ideas on how to deal with loosening. Locktite is one idea; another is a torque wrench; one poster also says oil on the screw enables a tighter hold.

These are great pistols, especially at the current street price. I have lots of Rugers which are good but difficult to assemble after takedown.
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Old 03-02-2016, 03:01 PM
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A 22 target pistol that you cannot dry fire?? Preposterous!
I guarantee mine will be dry fired a lot, as are my revolvers and rifles and other target pistols.
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Old 03-02-2016, 03:41 PM
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Preposterous?? Evidentially you've not seen the deformation of a Rimfire chamber edge that can occur with dry firing, and completely avoidable with these inexpensive do-dads:

Crown Bolt #4-8 x 7/8 in. Yellow Ribbed Plastic Anchors (100-Piece)-54772 - The Home Depot
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Old 03-02-2016, 04:14 PM
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Thanks for the heads up on the drywall anchors. I will get a pack of them from local hardware store.
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Old 03-02-2016, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
It will do absolutely no harm to keep it cocked; if you must, keep some .22 LR empties after your next range session, chamber one so the firing pin will hit an unused portion of the rim and "dry fire" after cleaning.
Yep I usually have an empty that finds it's way into my pocket after a range visit.
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Old 03-02-2016, 04:49 PM
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^^^^^^Since you mentioned that I have often put a spent 22 casing in my revolvers in case of a dry fire.
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Old 03-02-2016, 05:26 PM
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Ruger had one of their single six 22 revolvers in a little machine that cocked and dry fired it about once a minute when the first came out, ran 24 hours a day for weeks with absolutely no damage to the revolver.

If a 22 rimfire firing pin hits the chamber it is because the design is faulty or someone fit a fireing pin up too long. Should you ding a chamber it is an easy fix.

I could care less what you do, but for me if I want to master a firearm a lot of dry fire is mandatory. I feel that to build a target pistol that cannot be dry fired means it will not be in the winners circle very often. Having many Smith & Wesson hand guns in 22 rim fire I believe they are aware of this fact. There may be some who are naturally better shots than I am and may not benefit from dry-firing as much as I do.

Using snap caps on a semi auto means that every time you cycle the action you have to pick up the snap cap from the floor.

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Old 03-02-2016, 08:36 PM
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About leaving a spring set...
Do you have an automobile? When you park it you will have some valves open with the springs compressed. Do you remove the valve covers every time you park your car and back out the rocker arm stud? Absolutely not.
A spring is weakened by cycling it.
Imagine a steel lid on a can of beans. You remove the lid with a can opener, eat the beans of course then bend the can lid in half and leave it. Will it weaken by being bent? No. It will be weakened by flattening it back out then bending it again and on and on.
Springs are "tempered" to have elasticity. You can compress them or relax them without weakening them. But cycling them will fatigue them. And, it takes a VERY high number of cycles to bring it to failure.
But hey, don't take my word for it. Check with spring designers and manufacturers. They'll tell you the same thing.
You can leave your firearm cocked and the magazine full without worry of weakening the spring. It's physics not Internet forum nonsense.
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:25 PM
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I just ordered my SW22 yesterday and a Volquartsen fluted/ported barrel last night. Thanks for the heads up on the screw working loose. I have a mount screw on my Carver Custom scope mount on a M&P 9 Pro that will not stay tight even with red Loctite.
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Old 03-03-2016, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magload View Post
I have a mount screw on my Carver Custom scope mount on a M&P 9 Pro that will not stay tight even with red Loctite.
Loctite recommends using their primer with their threadlocker on anodized aluminum, pure aluminum, stainless steel and plated parts. Most scope mounts are anodized aluminum. And of course the SW22 Victory is stainless steel.
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Old 03-03-2016, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
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Loctite recommends using their primer with their threadlocker on anodized aluminum, pure aluminum, stainless steel and plated parts. Most scope mounts are anodized aluminum. And of course the SW22 Victory is stainless steel.
Thanks I did not know about the primer just haven't seen it anywhere where I have bought Loctite. Am going to look for some online right now. Don
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Old 03-03-2016, 09:01 PM
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Personally I would just hand tighten the screw in as if you use lock tight you may have problems when you have to clean the gun. I would suggest just a drop of oil on the threads of the screw and tighten it up. Carry a allen key of the correct size in your range gear for it and go shooting.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:58 AM
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I read here or somewhere that S&W does not recommend Loctite but to make sure the threads are completely dry, no lube at all.
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Old 03-05-2016, 10:54 PM
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I took my Victory to the range for the first time today. All oil and particulate was removed, and per others suggestions, both screws were left dry. The bolt was oiled per manual instructions. There was one FTE on the fourth round, CCI standard velocity. 150 more rounds cycled without issue. The trigger is clean and the pistol feels solid in the hand during the shot. Both screws were still tight when I broke the unit down for cleaning. I then watched KY beat LSU.

Life is good.
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Old 03-06-2016, 09:56 AM
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1. My father was a PhD Mechanical Engineer. I once asked him about leaving springs under compression. My concern at that time was magazine springs on 1911 type pistols, but his answer applies. As long as a spring is not compressed beyond its design parameters, leaving it compressed will not affect its useful life. It is the number of cycles wears a spring out. Leaving your gun cocked will not harm it.

2. Dry firing: some rimfire guns are OK to dry fire, some are not. It depends on how they are designed and built. If the design is such that the firing pin or striker is restrained from hitting the back of the barrel, it's OK. If the firing pin or striker can hit the back of the barrel (or chamber), it will cause a dent/deformation that will eventually render the firearm inoperable.

For example, the Ruger target .22 series (Mark I, II, and III) are fine to dry fire. The owners manual does warn that if the cross pin that retains the firing pin is removed, the pistol must not be dry fired. That pin allows the firing pin to protrude from the bolt just enough to punch a cartridge, but not reach the back of the barrel. On the other hand, I've seen older S&W rimfire revolvers with severe damage to the back of the cylinder from dry firing. The Sig Sauer Mosquito cannot be dry fired without doing damage. Most bolt (not all) bolt action rimfire rifles are OK to dry fire.

The owners manual for the SW22 Victory warns against dry firing. I looked for that. However, the firing pin on this gun is restrained, and cannot hit the back of the barrel. I haven't dry fired mine extensively, but I have done it enough that I would see evidence of it if there was a problem. So I don't know why the manual warns against the practice. One possibility that occurs to me is that the surfaces that "take the hit" are not robust enough to take a lot of dry firing, and could wear to the point where the firing pin could reach the barrel.

Since the damage would not occur without there being some evidence first that there was contact, I intend to feel free to dry fire my SW22 occasionally, but not extensively, and to watch closely for any evidence of contact between the firing pin and the barrel.
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smalljaw View Post
I took my Victory to the range for the first time today. All oil and particulate was removed, and per others suggestions, both screws were left dry. The bolt was oiled per manual instructions. There was one FTE on the fourth round, CCI standard velocity. 150 more rounds cycled without issue. The trigger is clean and the pistol feels solid in the hand during the shot. Both screws were still tight when I broke the unit down for cleaning. I then watched KY beat LSU.

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Not if you went to LSU
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Old 03-06-2016, 09:01 PM
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Thanks for posting the dry fired cylinder/chamber. I had always heard never to dry fire a rimfire, so I didn't, but I had never seen the evidence. Now I can see the reason. Years of mystery solved for me. You're a gentleman and a scholar.
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Old 03-09-2016, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smalljaw View Post
I took my Victory to the range for the first time today. All oil and particulate was removed, and per others suggestions, both screws were left dry. The bolt was oiled per manual instructions. There was one FTE on the fourth round, CCI standard velocity. 150 more rounds cycled without issue. The trigger is clean and the pistol feels solid in the hand during the shot. Both screws were still tight when I broke the unit down for cleaning. I then watched KY beat LSU.

Life is good.
Arrgh.

Yeah, being an LSU fan has contributed to my accuracy; anytime I watch them play, I find myself wanting to shoot something

I'm on the fence regarding this pistol. How finicky is it?
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Old 03-11-2016, 12:52 AM
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I picked a Victory up today. While I was taught not to dry fire 22 pistols, I do occasionally. Kind of unavoidable at times.
Please tell me what page in the manual it states not to on the Victory. I looked, but I must have missed it. Thanks
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:02 AM
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Not dry firing a .22 is easily understood, but some always want to argue that it does not hurt anything. There are enough pictures of damaged chamber faces floating around to impress this fact on anyone who really does not understand this.

There are guns with perfect tolerances which stop the forward motion of the firing pin, but because of tolerance stackup, your gun may or may not be one of them. In addition even if a gun can be dry fired without damage, normal parts wear can cause damage in time.

I have formed the attitude that if someone wants to argue the point, as long as he does not dry fire mine, let him learn from experience. If the chamber face is ruined, the repair cost will help his learning curve.

So a sales department for a certain manufacturer tells you that his product is safe to dry fire. Trust him at your own discretion, but if your gun is damaged, you will be told it is because of normal wear and will probably have to pay for the repair out of your own pocket.

Tell a child that if he touches a hot surface, he may get burned. Warn someone that dry firing may ruin his gun and he does it anyway and it is his problem. Either way, I will not lose any sleep over your problem.
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Old 03-11-2016, 10:09 AM
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I agree with Frank. It is possible with some hand-fit rimfire guns that the firing pin may stop just short of contacting the chamber with no shell in place but on most regular production line pieces, that's a by-chance thing - more of an accident than by design. I save some fired cases and use them if I want to dry-fire any of my rimfire handguns or rifles.

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Old 03-11-2016, 04:43 PM
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I bought The Hillman Group 370326 Ribbed Plastic Anchor, 4-6-8 X 7/8-Inch, Yellow, 100-Pack for $5 and darn they work great for dry fireing a 22Lr. My Victory will even feed one from the mag but only one as the second one will not come up into position right.
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:41 PM
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Well, I just picked a Victory up yesterday afternoon. Took it home cleaned it and headed to the range this morning.
First mag, first round, CLICK. Nothing. I try again. click again nothing. No primer strike at all. Tried several more times,still nothing.
Call S&W, get Brett on the phone. Explain my situation. He says ok, give me your info, Will e mail an RMA and send pistol in. Then tells me it will take 3-5 weeks for it to be returned to me. He seemed disinterested. Just repeated the instructions several times.
Not happy at all. Spent $400 on the pistol, and never get one single round down range.
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Old 03-11-2016, 10:44 PM
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Did he send the RMA? What more could he do to sound interested in your problem other than offer to repair it?

Being disappointed with buying a pistol with problems is understandable, but bad mouthing someone who is offering to fix it is not too upstanding.

Hope it comes back in excellent condition.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
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Did he send the RMA? What more could he do to sound interested in your problem other than offer to repair it?

Being disappointed with buying a pistol with problems is understandable, but bad mouthing someone who is offering to fix it is not too upstanding.

Hope it comes back in excellent condition.
Bad mouthing? Seriously? I said he sounded disinterested. Not rude or discourteous, disinterested
I was on the phone with him, you were not. so I can say disinterested. That isnt bad mouthing, thats an honest observation.
His approach was robotic. How about an, i'm sorry to hear that our product was defective. We will do everything we can to get this gun squared away and back to you as soon as possible. Thats customer service.
At least to this consumer it is.
To answer your question. Yes RMA was emailed

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Old 03-13-2016, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
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The manual says the gun is not to be dry fired
I just purchased this gun. I have read the manual several times I I don't see this anywhere. Can you tell me where you read this? The Smith & Wesson website also lists guns that can't be dry fired, and the Victory isn't on that list.

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Old 03-13-2016, 05:17 PM
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Page 25. First RED warning.
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Old 03-13-2016, 05:42 PM
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Page 25. First RED warning.
Thank you.
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Old 03-13-2016, 05:48 PM
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Thank you.

No problem. I always debate about dry-firing. With the Victory I keep the safety on until it is pointed down range and has a round in the chamber. Helps to stop the urge to dry fire.

Welcome to the forum by the way.
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  #38  
Old 03-13-2016, 06:10 PM
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Factories typically stick all kinds of erroneous warnings about using their products because they like to mess with your mind.

>NOT!<

If my car's manual says use 5w-40 oil, that's exactly what I'm using. If a firearm manual says not to dry fire, I'm not going to dry fire it. Others may do it all they want, it's their pistol (or car for that matter), but I don't dry fire any of my firearms unless the manufacturer says it's OK.

PERIOD.
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Old 03-15-2016, 10:08 PM
smalljaw smalljaw is offline
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Originally Posted by scoobysnacker View Post
Arrgh.

Yeah, being an LSU fan has contributed to my accuracy; anytime I watch them play, I find myself wanting to shoot something

I'm on the fence regarding this pistol. How finicky is it?
The tourney must have been hard to take. Don't know what to make of their lack of effort.

My Victory has been trouble free during the last few trips to the range. It is sporting a new red dot, a Vortex Venom, that I really like. My older eyes don't see a perfect dot but still very usable. I shot it at 25 and 100 yards. The shooter next to me was shooting a Ruger Mark III and asked for a try. He stated his next purchase would be a Victory.
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Old 03-18-2016, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AveragEd View Post
I agree with Frank. It is possible with some hand-fit rimfire guns that the firing pin may stop just short of contacting the chamber with no shell in place but on most regular production line pieces, that's a by-chance thing - more of an accident than by design. I save some fired cases and use them if I want to dry-fire any of my rimfire handguns or rifles.

Ed
Good points made by AveragEd and frankcr. Following the several threads on the SW22 Victory for a while now, owners seem to have had variable experiences with jamming using different brands of ammunition, not to mention dissimilar experiences with the loosening bolt and, we all share shotguntom's and other's frustration with their production defects. I feel fortunate to have experienced only one jam, and that with my first round of standard velocity CCI after shooting 50 or so rounds of AutoMatch without incident. The next 99 rounds of CCI cycled through smoothly. No problems at all with some really old Winchester Super-Speed and more AutoMatch. No bolt loosening, either. My gun's accuracy is much better than my ability to take full advantage of it, at least so far.
My point is that there might be enough production line variability between guns that extra caution is justified until we each know whether our individual guns can be dry fired or not. Certainly, using a spent case or a drywall anchor or a snap cap is the prudent choice for me.
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Old 03-18-2016, 04:44 PM
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I just did some reading of old manuals, including for my Sig P 210 and my S&W 952-1, both caution about the use of reloads. Some firearms state that the shooting of reloads will void the warranty!

Many of the firearms sold today will not be used much, the warning about dry firing and reloads simply encourages the average customer to use the firearm less, the less use the fewer the repairs. Just park it in the safe and enjoy it in mint condition.

I fully understand the caution about reloads, as a firearm manufacturer I would hate to have to deal with some of the problems caused by folks who reload without knowledge or experience. Still other than 22 rimfires I have not shot a factory round in the last 40 or so thousand rounds.

Anyone else reload?

Last edited by Ed Fowler; 03-18-2016 at 05:17 PM.
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  #42  
Old 03-18-2016, 05:14 PM
Barrie Barrie is offline
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Well said Bunkie12, I feel exactly the same way but you said it better then I could have 1St rate thinking. I heard this was true over 50 years ago when I a little younger. I don't allow either my M41 or M46 to be used without a safety device like a spent caseing. Lords knows I create enough of them at the club every week I could dryfire useing my own used shells for years to come.
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:05 PM
quickkill730 quickkill730 is offline
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Picked up a victory earlier this year. Absolutely love the gun. Been to the range multiple times with it and three different comps. Gun works great. Only a couple problems so far
The screw holding the rear sight came cross threaded. I played around with it for a while and got it to thread in properly.
Also the take down screw came loose at my first comp. luckily I had the Allen key with me. I tightened it up and it hasn't come loose again.
Overall the gun is great. I just put a Burris fast fire on it and will try it out on the next comp on Easter.
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Old 03-19-2016, 01:46 AM
gman51 gman51 is offline
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I received my red dot sight and then found out the gun came with an allen wrench for the barrel screw but it did not come with an allen wrench for the sight screw. The screw hex head is 3/32 and not 7/32 like the manual says. Which I don't have one. I checked all the wrenches that came with other gun sights and guns but none are that small. I guess a trip to the hardware is in for tomorrow. I really don't understand why they include a rail but no dang allen wrench to remove it.

Last edited by gman51; 03-19-2016 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 03-19-2016, 02:52 PM
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I bought the hex 3/32 allen and installed the sight. I also bought some of those4-8-7/8 fasteners for dry firing protection.
Here is a pic of it installed. The dot can be red or green and brightness is adjustable. Lowest brightness is plenty bright.
Now I need to sight it in.
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  #46  
Old 03-19-2016, 04:26 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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For whatever it is worth, the folded single sheet instructions that came with the Models 17 and 18 back in the 70s suggested dry firing. I have been doing it since, which is quite a number of years now, and have never had a problem. Nothing broken, no chamber damage.

This new Victory model sounds neat. It disassembles itself for cleaning, and has lots of malfunctions to help you practice your "tap, rack, bang" drills.

What was wrong with the spring loaded push button disassembly on the 22A and 22S? Since this Victory looks for all the world like a warmed over 22A or 22S, why not keep that feature? Cost?
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:43 PM
Barrie Barrie is offline
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Like any manufacturer they are always trying to improve on a new product I suspect. Folks will just have to get used to tightening the screw to a proper torque spec or put no. 61 o-ring or teflon on it instead. To me either or are not a big deal. We know already that at least 40 inch lbs works well apparently or the straight torque method. Its the owners choice from there. Myself I do own a torque wrench that works in inch lbs.
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:33 PM
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Used loctite on mine and is well now. I absolutely love this gun
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  #49  
Old 04-17-2016, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Targets Guy View Post
Page 25. First RED warning.
Thank you also. I read it twice and missed it both times.
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Old 04-18-2016, 11:15 AM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman51 View Post
I bought the hex 3/32 allen and installed the sight. I also bought some of those4-8-7/8 fasteners for dry firing protection.
Here is a pic of it installed. The dot can be red or green and brightness is adjustable. Lowest brightness is plenty bright.
Now I need to sight it in.
Just a heads up to you. I am also running a red dot on my Victory 22. The front screw on the mount base will work loose pretty quick. I'm hoping the after-market folks come out with a metal mount for optics.
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