Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 03-19-2016, 07:11 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nocents View Post
.....TTSH....this is what they look like if you run onto one... ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
You're going to give him a stroke, showing pictures like that. A 3913LS, KSD grips, and the original style magazine.

That's first class gun pr0n right there.
I'd need to get a good look at one out of the gun to ever be able to remember what to look for. My brain just isn't tuned into looking for such a rare bird.

And GaryS is correct: I don't own a 3913LS or NL yet. For the most part, they exceed my "no approval needed" price cap and Lord knows they don't exactly grow on trees around here. The good wife would never approve one anyway when she sees me able to buy regular, plain vanilla 3913's in very decent shape for under $500.

As for the KSD grips, I haven't gone down that rabbit hole yet... and it may surprise some that I don't ever intend to. Simple reason: I'd go broke (and a little crazy) trying to put them on all the 3rd Gens I own. Like any addiction: It's better never to start than to start and try to stop. So no thanks!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #102  
Old 03-19-2016, 03:19 PM
oldman10mm oldman10mm is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Euclid,Ohio
Posts: 940
Likes: 22
Liked 1,084 Times in 488 Posts
Default

At the Akron show today,picked up 5 S&W mags. A 6906,a 4013TSW/4053TSW/4056TSW,and 3 3913s'(2 still in OEM S&W packaging).
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #103  
Old 03-19-2016, 03:26 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
At the Akron show today,picked up 5 S&W mags. A 6906,a 4013TSW/4053TSW/4056TSW,and 3 3913s'(2 still in OEM S&W packaging).
Oh sure... but what did you pay for them?

Seriously, congratulations.

Now... how much do you want for them?
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 03-19-2016, 03:57 PM
oldman10mm oldman10mm is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Euclid,Ohio
Posts: 940
Likes: 22
Liked 1,084 Times in 488 Posts
Default

There were a lot more mags(9,40,45)I would have bought had I had more cash with me but some of the cash I had went to other stuff( a 500 box of 41cal lead bullets,some misc tooling,and a nice striped N frame grip.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #105  
Old 03-19-2016, 06:40 PM
Craig19's Avatar
Craig19 Craig19 is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 302
Likes: 8
Liked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
There were a lot more mags(9,40,45)I would have bought had I had more cash with me but some of the cash I had went to other stuff( a 500 box of 41cal lead bullets,some misc tooling,and a nice striped N frame grip.
How was the Akron show? How much did they want for the 6906 mag?
__________________
5903TSW 5904 5906 6906 4006
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 03-19-2016, 07:52 PM
oldman10mm oldman10mm is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Euclid,Ohio
Posts: 940
Likes: 22
Liked 1,084 Times in 488 Posts
Default

6906 mag ended up at $25 with the tax.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #107  
Old 03-19-2016, 08:18 PM
Craig19's Avatar
Craig19 Craig19 is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 302
Likes: 8
Liked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Nice. Thanks. I'm probably going to hit Berea next month.
__________________
5903TSW 5904 5906 6906 4006
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 03-19-2016, 09:13 PM
Towns's Avatar
Towns Towns is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 81
Likes: 388
Liked 89 Times in 37 Posts
Default

I recently paid a fellow forum member what amounted to $23 per mag for 6906 mags. Now I have to also admit that I bought one for $40 from that online auction site that I'm too ashamed to name. Hey, I'm learning.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #109  
Old 03-19-2016, 11:11 PM
85V65Sabre's Avatar
85V65Sabre 85V65Sabre is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 619
Likes: 686
Liked 569 Times in 259 Posts
Default What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Towns View Post
I recently paid a fellow forum member what amounted to $23 per mag for 6906 mags.

That's a good deal on 6906 mags, sure is nice to have members that help each other out.What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #110  
Old 03-20-2016, 07:13 PM
oldman10mm oldman10mm is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Euclid,Ohio
Posts: 940
Likes: 22
Liked 1,084 Times in 488 Posts
Default

my current stash of mags
9mm,mostly for my 59XXs' 69XXs' & CS9,I'm planning on picking up a couple 3913 pistols.


40S&W,don't have pistols but with the 3rd gen 40s' dropping in price,I want to pick up a variety. the 4013s' and CS40 are for 10mm conversion.


10mm,over the past month I've shipped out 7 to around the country. Until I get more,my stock is staying at that level.


45,don't have a 45,just acquire them for others.


my stock is constantly changing from doing gun shows every weekend. Some in the pictures are being held for requests for at the upcoming April 23 SWCA Ohio 'bunch' meeting.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #111  
Old 03-20-2016, 07:35 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 6,436
Likes: 4,189
Liked 7,794 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

Nice collection. And nice pictures of those GM drive train parts. I can't remember how many of those 10and 12 bolt center chucks I took out when I was working for my dad.



Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
my current stash of mags
9mm,mostly for my 59XXs' 69XXs' & CS9,I'm planning on picking up a couple 3913 pistols.


40S&W,don't have pistols but with the 3rd gen 40s' dropping in price,I want to pick up a variety. the 4013s' and CS40 are for 10mm conversion.


10mm,over the past month I've shipped out 7 to around the country. Until I get more,my stock is staying at that level.


45,don't have a 45,just acquire them for others.


my stock is constantly changing from doing gun shows every weekend. Some in the pictures are being held for requests for at the upcoming April 23 SWCA Ohio 'bunch' meeting.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #112  
Old 03-20-2016, 08:43 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
my current stash of mags
9mm,mostly for my 59XXs' 69XXs' & CS9,I'm planning on picking up a couple 3913 pistols.

40S&W,don't have pistols but with the 3rd gen 40s' dropping in price,I want to pick up a variety. the 4013s' and CS40 are for 10mm conversion.

10mm,over the past month I've shipped out 7 to around the country. Until I get more,my stock is staying at that level.

45,don't have a 45,just acquire them for others.

my stock is constantly changing from doing gun shows every weekend. Some in the pictures are being held for requests for at the upcoming April 23 SWCA Ohio 'bunch' meeting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Nice collection. And nice pictures of those GM drive train parts. I can't remember how many of those 10 and 12 bolt center chucks I took out when I was working for my dad.
Holy Cow and Mama Mia too! That's a whole lot of very valuable 3rd Gen Magazines!

I think your stash of 3rd Gen magazines is worth more than my entire 3rd Gen pistol collection!

Very nice indeed!!! Thanks for posting!
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 03-21-2016, 11:46 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default Another example...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
One dealer I hit today... certainly not a personal favorite of mine... absolutely insisted that S&W is still doing small runs of 3rd Gen magazines every year. While I don't think it is widespread, it could explain the occasional appearance of CS45 and 4516/457 magazines in new style packaging from time to time. And those aren't the only ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
This wouldn't surprise me. From time to time magazine components show up at Brownells or Midway. Along with other small parts.
Another example of long unavailable 3rd Gen magazines suddenly showing up today at MidwayUSA:

Smith & Wesson Mag S&W 4013TSW 4053TSW 4056TSW 40 S&W 9-Round SS

Now, these fit a somewhat later gun (one that's even MA-legal!) so maybe that has something to do with it.

Meanwhile, Greg Cote is down to just one Model 3913 curved baseplate magazine left. Doesn't matter anyway. I'm kinda out of "magazine money" for now.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 03-21-2016, 12:24 PM
oldman10mm oldman10mm is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Euclid,Ohio
Posts: 940
Likes: 22
Liked 1,084 Times in 488 Posts
Default

gunmagwarehouse also shows them as available.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 03-21-2016, 12:44 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
gunmagwarehouse also shows them as available.
Yep! Looks like they've got 8 left. A bit more expensive than Midway or Greg Cote, but such is life.

When the time if right, meaning after the next big show in April, I think I'll likely do as someone suggested and go with MidwayUSA on some flat baseplate magazines and then order some curved baseplates for them later if/when they ever come in. There seems to be a good supply everywhere for the flat baseplate magazines.

By then, I could be in pretty good shape anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 03-21-2016, 01:07 PM
hoss@fol43 hoss@fol43 is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 47
Likes: 1
Liked 35 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhacker View Post
If legislation introduced here passes and signed into law... there might be tons of magazines available from the West coming out of CA when retailers (and owners) need to dump them.

While nothing over 10 rd magazines have been the law of CA land for years as far as buying new ones is concerned, possession of so called "high capacity" magazines (over 10 round) was grandfathered and we were able to keep what we already have.

Some of the legislation introduced in the aftermath of the San Bernardino shootings, if passed and signed into law, will remove that grandfathering and ban possession of any magazine over 10 rounds.

Also being considered, is legislation that will ban semi-auto's capable of accepting over 10 rd. capacity magazines... meaning any semi-auto with a magazine well is in jeopardy.

So there might be a glut of stuff flooding out of CA before 1/1/17 when new laws take effect... magazines, semi-autos, people...
You assume that we Americans in Kalifornia will turn in our magazines and guns to our communist handlers, eh?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #117  
Old 03-21-2016, 01:37 PM
Gunhacker's Avatar
Gunhacker Gunhacker is offline
SWCA Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF East Bay - "the delta"
Posts: 2,617
Likes: 635
Liked 1,908 Times in 823 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoss@fol43 View Post
You assume that we Americans in Kalifornia will turn in our magazines and guns to our communist handlers, eh?
Naw, only just mentioning what's currently in play here in CA, and the possibility of a new law, if passed, that might scare up some magazines if/when CA retail businesses need to dump what they've got.

My plan is to make a break out of this state before things get anymore ridiculous than they already are. I'm also sick and tired of reading about great new semi-auto pistols coming out that I'll not see in CA unless the CA roster can be successfully be over turned in the court challenge being waged.
__________________
Conrad - S&WCA #1830

Last edited by Gunhacker; 03-21-2016 at 02:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #118  
Old 03-21-2016, 09:50 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 6,436
Likes: 4,189
Liked 7,794 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

I can hook you up with curved base plates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Yep! Looks like they've got 8 left. A bit more expensive than Midway or Greg Cote, but such is life.

When the time if right, meaning after the next big show in April, I think I'll likely do as someone suggested and go with MidwayUSA on some flat baseplate magazines and then order some curved baseplates for them later if/when they ever come in. There seems to be a good supply everywhere for the flat baseplate magazines.

By then, I could be in pretty good shape anyway.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #119  
Old 03-21-2016, 10:36 PM
Practical Practical is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
Liked 205 Times in 111 Posts
Default

What are magazines?

It just makes me want to focus on S&W revolvers for FUN and keep to Plastic Fantastic guns (auto's) for 'defense'.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #120  
Old 03-22-2016, 05:54 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
I can hook you up with curved base plates.
Actually, a couple members have quietly offered to swap or otherwise help me out in that regard. This is a wonderful forum! But I may have accidentally overstated my need, desire and/or "love" for curved baseplates. With last week's purchases and if all goes well with a swap in the works this week, I'll be pretty much in balance and where I want to be by week's end.

I was just thinking out loud about the future and the April show in Marlboro where I might have the cash to add 2-3 more magazines (with a little luck and if the price is right). But if I strike out at the show, MidwayUSA and those flat base 3913 magazines will likely be my best & cheapest fallback.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #121  
Old 03-22-2016, 05:58 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Practical View Post
What are magazines?
They are expensive little squarish tubes with springs inside.

Got any you want to sell?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #122  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:05 AM
85V65Sabre's Avatar
85V65Sabre 85V65Sabre is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 619
Likes: 686
Liked 569 Times in 259 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Practical View Post
It just makes me want to focus on S&W revolvers for FUN and keep to Plastic Fantastic guns (auto's) for 'defense'.

Sounds good to me, your decision leaves more 3rd Gens & mags for me and the other addicts here.What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #123  
Old 03-23-2016, 01:40 PM
oldman10mm oldman10mm is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Euclid,Ohio
Posts: 940
Likes: 22
Liked 1,084 Times in 488 Posts
Default

Picked up(locally) yesterday a 4053 with one clip. That brings my 4013 clips to 12. 6 of them I'll leave intact and 6 will be converted to 10mm. A while back I got a 4013 barrel and 10mm reamer. I'll leave the gun's barrel intact and ream the purchased barrel. I'll order springs and buffer for the 10mm conversion and then still be able to convert the pistol back to 40.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #124  
Old 03-24-2016, 02:32 AM
JeepinSoldier JeepinSoldier is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Occupied Colorado
Posts: 598
Likes: 368
Liked 626 Times in 229 Posts
Default

This site is always a blessing and a curse.

I have plenty of curved base plate magazines for the 3913 and 3953 but had wanted to try the flat base plate versions.

Got the 4586 working well and then it started to choke with the yellow follower magazine that it came with, but runs fine with the two new black follower magazines that I purchased while working the bugs out of it. So I wanted at least one more new black follower magazine.

Read through this thread, figured that if Midway was having a sale on the .45 mags now was the time to buy them. Now I'm $125 poorer but there are 2 more .45 mags and 2 flat base plate 3913/3953 mags in the safe. Better to have them then not be able to find them later.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #125  
Old 03-24-2016, 02:57 AM
JeepinSoldier JeepinSoldier is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Occupied Colorado
Posts: 598
Likes: 368
Liked 626 Times in 229 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
This morning, I see on MidwayUSA that Model 3913/3953 curved floorplate magazines are noted as "discontinued." Flat floor plate magazines are still available but apparently going fast. I suspect they'll be "discontinued" by the end of this month.

Member BMCM has posted about the clearance sale going on at MidwayUSA on Model 4506 (et al) magazines... which another member pointed out that this probably means they are being discontinued too. I notice that Model 4516/457 magazines are already noted as "discontinued."

Is it just me? Or is it time to make sure we've got all the 3rd Gen magazines we'll ever need?
Well, was curious after my last post and checked the 4506 mags at Midway. DISCONTINUED:
Smith & Wesson Mag S&W 645 745 4506 4526 4546 4563 4566 4567 4576 4583

Thank you for this thread TTSH! Glad I got em when I did!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #126  
Old 03-24-2016, 03:17 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 6,436
Likes: 4,189
Liked 7,794 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

Ooops, I did it again. Picked up four of the CS9/no rail 3913TSW magazines NIP from a forum member for $85.00 shipped.

They still have the stickers on them.

Pictures later if anyone is interested.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #127  
Old 03-24-2016, 03:43 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Ooops, I did it again. Picked up four of the CS9/no rail 3913TSW magazines NIP from a forum member for $85.00 shipped.

They still have the stickers on them.

Pictures later if anyone is interested.
Score!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 03-24-2016, 03:56 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepinSoldier View Post
Well, was curious after my last post and checked the 4506 mags at Midway. DISCONTINUED:
Smith & Wesson Mag S&W 645 745 4506 4526 4546 4563 4566 4567 4576 4583

Thank you for this thread TTSH! Glad I got em when I did!
Thank God I'm in pretty good shape on them.

After my 3900-series magazine panic is over with, I think the next big panic thing for me is going to be Model 5900-series "pre-ban" magazines. Being a subject of the People's Republic of Taxachusetts, I can't just run out and buy any 5900-series magazines I find... and certainly not new Mec-Gars.

One forum member was recently offering some factory 5900-series magazines for sale. Unfortunately, there was no way we could confirm that they were "pre-ban"... and I don't wish to go to prison for 10 years.

Sometimes, I wonder if S&W kept a whole lot of the "pre-ban" and "post-ban" 3rd Gen magazines exactly the same in order to help us... or to hurt us... here in the anti-2A moonbat-occupied states?
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 03-24-2016, 04:14 PM
Big Shrek's Avatar
Big Shrek Big Shrek is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 471
Likes: 3,259
Liked 459 Times in 241 Posts
Default

Logically, since they quit making them before the ban,
technically, anything other than the new Pro-mag's
should be pre-ban...if in doubt, always say they came with it in 1995
__________________
Marlin & Calico Specialist
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #130  
Old 03-24-2016, 10:56 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shrek View Post
Logically, since they quit making them before the ban, technically, anything other than the new Pro-mag's should be pre-ban.
Close but not exactly true. The ban ran from 1994 to 2004. They stopped making the last 3rd Gens that used 5900-series hi-cap magazines in 2007, more or less (excluding special cop orders and the like).

During the ban, all hi-caps were marked for LEO or export only... and other members here have assured me that pre-1994 hi-cap magazines already in stock were allowed to be sold until supplies were exhausted. If true, there would have been few, if any, pre-ban hi-cap magazines leftover and available to be sold brand new after 2004. There had to be new production of magazines for 3rd Gen pistols manufactured between 2004 and 2007 and for sale separately (or with special order guns) long thereafter. I can't prove it, of course... but it sure seems like a practical and logical conclusion to me.

The only important issue to me right now is how to tell "pre-ban" hi-cap magazines from "post-ban" hi-cap magazines, especially when a whole lot of them look identical "pre-ban" vs. "post-ban"! We tend to rely on little clues... and rumors... and follower colors... and what very few hard facts we actually know. It's an imperfect science for an imperfect law. But it's all we've got without dates on the magazines or definitive manufacturing data from the mothership.

But when the penalty is up to 10 years in prison, you need to take the crazy law seriously or else.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #131  
Old 03-26-2016, 12:30 AM
Elkins45 Elkins45 is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern KY
Posts: 188
Likes: 42
Liked 236 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Gunbroker had an auction end just last week. 5906 Smith & Wesson factory magazines. They'll fit every double stack 1-2-3rd Gen 9mm pistol, although they stick out of the smaller pistols. All were used, but were reportedly functional and, well, typical. NINETY magazines. Went for just a couple bucks under a thousand dollars.
Wait.....what? 59 series mags will work in Glocks? Really? I can't believe I have never heard this before.

Honestly, that sounds too good to be true.
__________________
NRA Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 03-26-2016, 07:11 AM
oldman10mm oldman10mm is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Euclid,Ohio
Posts: 940
Likes: 22
Liked 1,084 Times in 488 Posts
Default

'the 1-2-3rd Gen 9mm pistol's ARE Smiths Not Glocks.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #133  
Old 03-26-2016, 09:30 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
5906 Smith & Wesson factory magazines. They'll fit every double stack 1-2-3rd Gen 9mm pistol, although they stick out of the smaller pistols.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkins45 View Post
Wait.....what? 59 series mags will work in Glocks? Really? I can't believe I have never heard this before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
'the 1-2-3rd Gen 9mm pistol's ARE Smiths Not Glocks.
Hopefully, member Elkins45 was just goofing a little on member Sevens. In fact, I'm sure of it.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 03-29-2016, 11:55 AM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 6,436
Likes: 4,189
Liked 7,794 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

gunmagwarehouse.com has 3rd Gen magazines, including curved and flat base plate 3913 magazines.

I've never done business with them, so I don't know how they are to deal with and can't endorse them. I just thought I'd mention it.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #135  
Old 03-29-2016, 08:42 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
gunmagwarehouse.com has 3rd Gen magazines, including curved and flat base plate 3913 magazines.

I've never done business with them, so I don't know how they are to deal with and can't endorse them. I just thought I'd mention it.
If that was for me, I'm in pretty good shape right now as the result of a couple local buys and a nifty trade deal with a forum member.

S&W 5900-series "pre-ban" magazines are my next big focus.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 03-29-2016, 09:01 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 6,436
Likes: 4,189
Liked 7,794 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

No, not you in particular. I know that there are a few other people looking for magazines as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
If that was for me, I'm in pretty good shape right now as the result of a couple local buys and a nifty trade deal with a forum member.

S&W 5900-series "pre-ban" magazines are my next big focus.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #137  
Old 04-01-2016, 01:03 AM
Dennis Dennis is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 507
Likes: 2,755
Liked 360 Times in 204 Posts
Default

Just bought a couple more 3913 mags from midway.
BTW, I mistakenly bought a brand new 9mm 3913 TSW mag today. I don't need it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #138  
Old 04-01-2016, 05:57 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Just bought a couple more 3913 mags from midway.
BTW, I mistakenly bought a brand new 9mm 3913 TSW mag today. I don't need it.
Yes, Model 3913 curved baseplate magazines mysteriously reappeared the other day... ... and yours truly tried to buy a bunch of them using the latest "free shipping" promotion (just as I had tried to do the last time a similar promotion was on). And once again, it didn't work.

I finally had a conversion with MidwayUSA yesterday and found out that products for which there is a "Quantity Limit" stated do not qualify for any of their free shipping promotions. Not now, not ever.

That was news to me. I've done a ton of business with MidwayUSA and never knew that. I think I've paid more money in MidwayUSA shipping changes than I've paid for the actual parts themselves.

As much as I rely on MidwayUSA, I've had my troubles with their ordering system and I have a list of complaints about the way they do business (which always seems to maximize those damn shipping charges). But that's another topic for another day. For now, I'm actually pretty much okay with 3913 magazines, my gripes and problems with MidwayUSA notwithstanding.

Last edited by TTSH; 04-01-2016 at 05:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 04-01-2016, 09:19 PM
Kenna Kenna is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 108
Likes: 226
Liked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Default

So today at LGS looking thru misc SW mags and found a flushfit 6rd to fit my 4513tsw. They also had 6rd curved baseplate 45 mags. Didn't pu because I wasnt sure they would seat correctly. Came home and took curved base off 7rd mags,and put it on 6rd and it fit perfect in gun. Looks odd tho. what are the 6 rd curved origiallly for??
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 04-02-2016, 05:34 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenna View Post
So today at LGS looking thru misc SW mags and found a flushfit 6rd to fit my 4513tsw. They also had 6rd curved baseplate 45 mags. Didn't pu because I wasn't sure they would seat correctly. Came home and took curved base off 7rd mags, and put it on 6rd and it fit perfect in gun. Looks odd tho. What are the 6rd curved originally for??
Sounds like you have an early "pre-rail" Model 4513TSW that uses the special 6-round recessed fit magazines. The 6-round curved baseplate magazines you found are for the CS45.
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 04-02-2016, 09:57 AM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 6,436
Likes: 4,189
Liked 7,794 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

Shipping charges and their ending their dealer discounts prompted me to switch more to Brownells. Midway usually has a better selection of 3rd Gen parts, but not by much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Yes, Model 3913 curved baseplate magazines mysteriously reappeared the other day... ... and yours truly tried to buy a bunch of them using the latest "free shipping" promotion (just as I had tried to do the last time a similar promotion was on). And once again, it didn't work.

I finally had a conversion with MidwayUSA yesterday and found out that products for which there is a "Quantity Limit" stated do not qualify for any of their free shipping promotions. Not now, not ever.

That was news to me. I've done a ton of business with MidwayUSA and never knew that. I think I've paid more money in MidwayUSA shipping changes than I've paid for the actual parts themselves.

As much as I rely on MidwayUSA, I've had my troubles with their ordering system and I have a list of complaints about the way they do business (which always seems to maximize those damn shipping charges). But that's another topic for another day. For now, I'm actually pretty much okay with 3913 magazines, my gripes and problems with MidwayUSA notwithstanding.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #142  
Old 04-02-2016, 10:21 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
Shipping charges and their ending their dealer discounts prompted me to switch more to Brownells. Midway usually has a better selection of 3rd Gen parts, but not by much.
My single biggest gripe relates to how out-of-stock and back-ordered parts are handled... as well as how orders can't be held or combined even if you are willing to pay a little extra for them to do so. Alerts always seem to come in spaced just far enough apart time-wise that they almost always result in separate orders and, therefore, separate shipping fees.

Like I said, I think I've paid more money overall in shipping fees to MidwayUSA than I have for the parts themselves (and I have bought a LOT of parts!). Not being able to use their "free shipping" promotions for magazines just adds insult to injury.

It's a serious love/hate relationship for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 04-02-2016, 02:58 PM
Kenna Kenna is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 108
Likes: 226
Liked 35 Times in 22 Posts
Default

Thanks TTSH for the info on the mags. Kenna
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #144  
Old 04-02-2016, 04:17 PM
kaveman kaveman is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 389
Likes: 43
Liked 516 Times in 228 Posts
Default

Picked up two original mags at the latest local gunshow,.....an 8rd 9mm and a 7rd .45. Some would say that $15 apiece was cheap, but we'll see about that. I have a use for the 9mm mag but don't own a compact .45. What does the 7rder fit? Is this cheap magazine going to cost me $500 in the near future?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #145  
Old 04-02-2016, 04:20 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaveman View Post
What does the 7rder fit? Is this cheap magazine going to cost me $500 in the near future?
Like this one?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/31...tainless-steel

I see a new .45 3rd Gen in the Kaveman's future!
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 04-02-2016, 05:06 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 6,436
Likes: 4,189
Liked 7,794 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

Well, that is cheap for that magazine. As noted at the Midway link, it will fit a bunch of compact 3rd Gen 45s. You probably know this already, but it's cheap insurance to pop in a new magazine spring. If you plan to keep it, let me know because I think I have a spare magazine spring hanging around. If you plan to sell it, also let me know.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kaveman View Post
Picked up two original mags at the latest local gunshow,.....an 8rd 9mm and a 7rd .45. Some would say that $15 apiece was cheap, but we'll see about that. I have a use for the 9mm mag but don't own a compact .45. What does the 7rder fit? Is this cheap magazine going to cost me $500 in the near future?
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.

Last edited by GaryS; 04-02-2016 at 07:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 04-02-2016, 06:07 PM
kaveman kaveman is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 389
Likes: 43
Liked 516 Times in 228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Like this one?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/31...tainless-steel

I see a new .45 3rd Gen in the Kaveman's future!
Thanks TTSH, that's a helpful listing. I'm not really aroused by the idea of a mini .45 but you never know,.....that might change. It'd have to be a DAO of course. I see a 457D on my favorite shopping site and the price ain't bad. No telling what it'll go for but $450 would buy it now. Problem is that the 457 has always seemed a bit doggie to me.

4556 would be a fine option. I think I remember bidding on one several months ago(the only one I've ever seen)and iirc the winning bid was WAY up there,......not something I'd ever spend that kind of money on. I'm not going to spend a thousand dollars I don't have on a pistol I don't want just because I have a fifteen dollar magazine. Well, I'm probably not going to spend a thousand dollars I don't have on a pistol I don't want. Well, I guess I might not spend a thousand dollars I don't have on a pistol I don't want. I do already have a magazine though, so there's that to consider. It'd be a shame to let that go to waste. And now that I think about it, I have a set of Hogue woodies for a 4013 stored away somewhere. I'm assuming that's the same frame size, right? Let me check my CC balance and I'll get back to you,.......

Looking closely at the .45 mag I now notice that the lip of the finger rest is chipped off. Mag looks like new otherwise but with the chipped floorplate I guess I got robbed after all. I'd press charges against the seller, but I suppose if I stood there with it in my hand and bought it I'm the one who gets the blame. It's not often I find single-stack S&W mags just sitting on a table when I'm actually looking for them, so I may have panicked just a little bit.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #148  
Old 04-02-2016, 07:49 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,423
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaveman View Post
Looking closely at the .45 mag I now notice that the lip of the finger rest is chipped off. Mag looks like new otherwise but with the chipped floorplate I guess I got robbed after all. I'd press charges against the seller, but I suppose if I stood there with it in my hand and bought it I'm the one who gets the blame. It's not often I find single-stack S&W mags just sitting on a table when I'm actually looking for them, so I may have panicked just a little bit.
Simple solution: Smith & Wesson Mag Floorplate S&W 4513TSW 4553TSW CS40C CS40D CS40S

Note that the inclusion of the CS9D in that list is an error.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 04-02-2016, 08:31 PM
kaveman kaveman is offline
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 389
Likes: 43
Liked 516 Times in 228 Posts
Default

Thanks, I suppose I could do that. Unfortunately I don't really have anything else I need from Midway right now and like you I'm not nuts about paying $10 shipping on a $3 piece of plastic(that's actually worth about 14 cents),.......especially for a mag I can't use in a gun I don't have. I've been forced into retirement too so I'm doing all I can to stop the financial bleeding. I thought I had ten more good years of income left but it hasn't worked out that way.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #150  
Old 04-03-2016, 11:42 AM
Texasgordo's Avatar
Texasgordo Texasgordo is online now
Member
What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines? What's going on with 3rd Gen magazines?  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 132
Likes: 337
Liked 116 Times in 58 Posts
Default

I saw new 3913TSW mags for $15 each in the clearance bin at a Austin, TX gunshop about a month ago.

I don't have a 3913TSW so I didn't buy them.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4513TSW Six Round Magazines, 5900 series Magazines...Got any? timn8er WANTED to Buy 14 07-11-2013 09:48 PM
WTT M&P 15-22 (22LR) 32rd Magazines for M&P 9mm 17Rd Magazines (AZ) Wolfman-Iraq Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 0 04-28-2013 02:49 PM
THE HOLY GRAIL!! Vol 1 No 1 MAGAZINES, MAGAZINES, MAGAZINES!! SPEEDGUNNER Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 1 07-11-2012 03:48 PM
Military Rifle Magazines / Pistol Magazines jimmyj Firearms & Knives - Other Brands 7 04-07-2012 10:43 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)