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Old 03-23-2016, 07:00 PM
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Default Performance center really

First and foremost do they even fire them at a target before shipping. Both of mine are way off target. The shield shoots 5" to the left but elevation is perfect at 7 yards. It also had many ftf using three different types of ammo. My PC 1911 # 170343 runs perfect but again poi was way off. After drifting front sight and adjusting the rear all the way it will punch one hole at 7 yards. It just seems like something from the performance center should run and be pretty accurate right out of the box.
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:34 PM
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I used to adjust my sight until I learned how to hold my gun correctly.

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Old 03-23-2016, 10:31 PM
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My grip wasn't the problem. Misaligned sights from factory verified by several shooters.
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Old 03-23-2016, 10:40 PM
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I have to agree on PC lately. I waited 15 months for a 1911 PC (missed the previous batch by a couple of weeks). Mine finally arrived. Many RIA 1911s I have tried have a better trigger than this thing had on it. It was so bad out if the box along with the fit and finish I didn't even try it out. Just shook my head and traded it away.
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:19 AM
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The Performance Center use to be a seperate entity housed in an old airplane hanger behind the main factory. Shooters and talented engineers worked with skilled gunsmiths making some very nice handguns.

Now it is just another assembly line in the factory adding some slightly better triggers to replace the lousy factory triggers, and stamp the famous seal on some run of the mill handguns.

Of course an exhorbitant price tag accompanies the seal. But that is about all you get. Unless you count the return shipping tag. Evidently those should be included as standard fare these days. Regards 18DAI
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Old 03-24-2016, 11:11 AM
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I have to agree with the lack of professional quality with the PC stamp. I purchased a SW1911PC SKU 170344 in 2014 and without firing a shot had to send it back to the SW because when inspecting after arrival taking it off safety the hammer would fall to half cock. If it had been fired and inspected how would that been missed? The trigger is not smooth but is acceptable, not really what a PC trigger should feel like. A competent smith would have done a better job. And the pumpkin furniture, really?
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Old 03-24-2016, 11:45 AM
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Default Have to agree

with the Honorable 18DAI.

I've been able to buy a few Performance Center (Center = BUILDING not assembly line #5) pistols and they are unique and worthy of the logo.

Maybe today "PC" stands for partially canted

A distant analogy might be years ago when US auto makers had been making muscle cars and sports cars then short-sighted marketers decided that a pinstripe and mini spoiler made a tin can a "sport edition."

It took some hard lessons for them to realize putting a pony & script "Mustang" on a 4cyl *** didn't make it so and diluted the brand. Maybe some gun guys will ascend at S&W management & realize how poor branding can waste massive amounts of capital.

Lad
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Old 03-24-2016, 11:57 AM
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That could explain a PC 696 I recently acquired. everything about the gun was fine, except the side plate screw that also retains the crane was buggered up! Seriously not expecting to see that.
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Old 03-24-2016, 12:03 PM
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I agree. 3/4 of my PC guns came with rough edges/burrs and mis-aligned sights. It's not an accuracy issues if the front sight is barely aligned in the sight channel.
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Old 03-24-2016, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
I used to adjust my sight until I learned how to hold my gun correctly.

Performance center really-target_shooting_diagnosis-jpg
While I do not agree with all the variables and results displayed, it is a good reminder for your check list as you practice, both dry fire and actual target work.

Thanks for posting it up!!
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Old 03-24-2016, 12:39 PM
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Sorry, I couldnt help myself... For the lefties
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:47 PM
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This is why I only buy used (experienced) guns.
I don't think they make anything like they used to.
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Old 03-25-2016, 08:57 AM
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After a close inspection this is what notice. Would this affect the accuracy causing it to shoot left. Performance center really[/IMG]
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:03 AM
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http://
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:36 AM
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The machining has left a stepped up area that when fire it I prints that step up into the head stamp of thefired case. Could that cause the barrel chamber to slightly shift to the right causing the bullet poi to be left.
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:53 AM
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Most of the craftsman who made these guns in the performance center for a long time have since retired or are no longer there.
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Old 03-25-2016, 02:07 PM
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I bought a PC1911. I went to the range. I adjusted the sights.

Expecting it to be sighted in for ME would be absurd.
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Old 03-25-2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevelightning View Post
Well now.. you might be on to something.

Looks like the monkey that cut the breach face cut a bit to much, the barrel hood should touch on both sides of the witness mark in the center top. I don't see marks from a properly fitted barrel hood.
Actually got my readers out and see the marks.

I'd dial up S&W and say fix please.

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Old 03-25-2016, 09:05 PM
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I bought a PC1911. I went to the range. I adjusted the sights.

Expecting it to be sighted in for ME would be absurd.
And for the (literally) millions of fixed-sight handguns built, shipped & sold...?!
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:11 PM
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And for the (literally) millions of fixed-sight handguns built, shipped & sold...?!
That's why a lot of shooters, including myself, do not like fixed-sight handguns. I am almost 63 years old and never bought any handgun, new or used, that didn't need to be sighted in for me.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:13 PM
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And for the (literally) millions of fixed-sight handguns built, shipped & sold...?!
They are installed at the factory. Centered on top of the gun, at least to what the installer thinks is centered. They are NOT sighted in. Factories don't spend time sighting guns. You get what you get.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:48 PM
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For a fixed sight if you wanted to adjust it or windage you could use a lead hammer place the frame between two lead anvils and wham it. Or twist the barrel a little, maybe file a little off the back face where the barrel meets the frame to allow better alignment of the sight. Some gunsmiths know these tricks.

For elevation it is the old file trick on the front sight, or silver solder a little more metal to the top of the sight. You could also make some adjustment with a file on the fixed rear sight for windage, you just had a wider window.

Or you could shoot it a lot learn where it shoots and adjust your aim accordingly.

Just some of the little tricks, but they worked.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:58 PM
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Unless someone gets in the drivers seat pretty soon, whoever owns the company now will trade on what used to be with the poorly crafted stuff coming out of there until no one buys the current production guns. IMO old is now the only gold.
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:15 AM
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Unfortunately I have also experienced a lack of quality on my PC model 41.
The issue is a fault in the barrel that is causing the bullets to tumble

I have been waiting 6 months so far for a replacement barrel from the Aussie distributor............
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:16 PM
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I bought a barrel for next to nothing because bullets were tumbling. All I had to do was look through he bore and knew why, a ring of crud had developed just ahead of the cartridge mouth and was squeezing the bullets under size as they passed through. Pulled a bronze brush through the bore a few times, then some Lewis lead remover, more cleaning and now it is one of my most accurate barrels.
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:30 PM
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I've been reading about the demise of S&W for my 10 years here, somehow they just seem to confound the bleacher reports.
160+ years and counting
Do they have issues, doesn't everyone?

Their stock is at or near a 5 year high, the stock has been Platinum for those who invested.

And then there's this, much to the chagrin of the experts.

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Old 03-26-2016, 12:48 PM
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I've been reading about the demise of S&W for my 10 years here, somehow they just seem to confound the bleacher reports.
160+ years and counting
Do they have issues, doesn't everyone?

Their stock is at or near a 5 year high, the stock has been Platinum for those who invested.

And then there's this much to the chagrin of the experts.



Hahaha.... ain't that the truth!!!! Now we're talkin FACTS!!!!
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Old 03-26-2016, 02:09 PM
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I was at the factory in the late 60's, there is not a person in that photo that I recognize, they must have a high turnover rate!
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Old 03-26-2016, 02:30 PM
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I was at the factory in the late 60's, there is not a person in that photo that I recognize, they must have a high turnover rate!
Yes, you would of thought after almost 50 years they would still have all the original employees on payroll.
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:30 PM
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Yes, you would of thought after almost 50 years they would still have all the original employees on payroll.
For some of us, the late 60's seem like yesterday.

Having spent a fair numbers of year in a manufacturing plant, as a die maker, I've seen two things happen over time. There has been a huge advance in machining techniques. These advances allow manufacturers to make products that were either impossible or extremely difficult (and expensive), easy and cheap. It also had a secondary effect of eliminating several jobs that had required skilled workers. That isn't to say that running a CNC machine doesn't require skill, but you can teach someone to be very proficient on a CNC machine, especially if it only runs a few programs, in a lot shorter time than what it takes to teach a person to be a competent gunsmith, even if it's only on a few models of firearms.

The second thing that I've noticed is it can be very difficult to get and retain good help now days. I can't say with certainty why that is, but I see signs in several locations for auto mechanics. Like gunsmiths, good mechanics don't sprout overnight, and if the signs I see are any indication, there's a shortage of them, at least in my area.

So while computer controlled 5 axis cutting machines make a higher quality initial part, you still need competent and qualified people to assemble the end product. I'm sure all the ownership changes S&W has gone through over the years has had a detrimental effect. If you have skill, and looks like your job may be in danger of changing or disappearing, it's a real incentive to look for work elsewhere.

S&W has been at the forefront of firearms for a long time, and their current business strategy of offering custom guns via the Performance Center is a great idea. Let's hope they can keep the concept going and make the quality top notch.
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:11 AM
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I bought a barrel for next to nothing because bullets were tumbling. All I had to do was look through he bore and knew why, a ring of crud had developed just ahead of the cartridge mouth and was squeezing the bullets under size as they passed through. Pulled a bronze brush through the bore a few times, then some Lewis lead remover, more cleaning and now it is one of my most accurate barrels.
Lucky you. Unfortunately, my barrel is squeaky clean.
I can see an area of "difference" in the bore, about an inch from the crown. I am not sure what it is, but the finish and reflection on that part is just different to the rest of the bore.
The Aussie distributor has ( apparently) ordered a replacement barrel, which is due in country in April.
Hopefully there are no problems with this new one and I can enjoy the M41's legendary accuracy.

If that fails, I will just have to purchase a "Clarke" or similar. Not sure where I will get one down here though.
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Old 03-30-2016, 09:54 AM
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The Performance Center is nothing more than a market gimmick these days. It's a slight alteration in the production line, not the custom shop it once was. Nothing at all special...
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
The Performance Center use to be a seperate entity housed in an old airplane hanger behind the main factory. Shooters and talented engineers worked with skilled gunsmiths making some very nice handguns.

Now it is just another assembly line in the factory adding some slightly better triggers to replace the lousy factory triggers, and stamp the famous seal on some run of the mill handguns.

Of course an exhorbitant price tag accompanies the seal. But that is about all you get. Unless you count the return shipping tag. Evidently those should be included as standard fare these days. Regards 18DAI
Pretty much sums it up!....... I will be holding on to my mid-90 PC guns!!!

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Old 03-30-2016, 10:58 AM
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Yeah, I have plenty of old PC autos. They're not going anywhere. The new stuff is a joke by comparison. It's the same by name only.
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Old 03-30-2016, 03:28 PM
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I have been saving for a model 627 wheel gun in 357Cal for a while now and hope they don't cheapen it any further or raise the price for less quality again. They were and possibly still are the prettiest handgun I have ever fired. Balance was perfect with the wood grips for me and the 5" barrel on it.
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