Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-19-2016, 02:20 AM
dlombard dlombard is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southern California
Posts: 146
Likes: 473
Liked 65 Times in 38 Posts
Default Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?

Do we understand the reason many Smith & Wesson semiautomatics are typically Striker Fire? I began to notice that whether it's the newer Sigma/"SD" series or M&P, or the older Gen3 semiautos, they appear to be mostly Striker Fire. The only other "major" make along those lines is Glock. Otherwise, when I look at SIG Sauer or Beretta, their flagship model lines are Hammer Fire. I'm wondering about the history, if anyone knows it of why non-revolver S&Ws seem to be Striker Fire.

Could also be a misconception on my part as I'm not familiar with all non-1911 semiautos S&W has made in recent decades...

I'm also curious to know about any advantages and disadvantages as such beyond the obvious (i.e., you can--for whatever reason--take a DAO firearm and by cocking the hammer, simulate single action triggering if I'm not mistaken).
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-19-2016, 02:40 AM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 4,470
Likes: 8,324
Liked 4,579 Times in 1,309 Posts
Default

There were no striker fired 3rd gen pistols. Perhaps you are thinking of the DAO models where the hammer is partially obscured by the slide.

Anyways, the striker fired guns are plastic and cheaper to make. Unlike Sig and Beretta, the current company calling itself s&w has chosen not to offer a hammer fired semi auto pistol, other than their 1911 line.

As far as I can tell, the appeal of the striker fired guns - to some - is their light weight, cheap price and "same trigger pull for every shot". Even though the pull is spongy or gritty. Regards 18DAI
__________________
8 + 1 rounds of hope & change.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-19-2016, 08:02 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Not much to add to 18DAI's response. The current industry trend is toward more plastic and more striker-fired pistols. S&W is already there, in with both feet. Sig is not that far behind. The P320 is said to show their future direction. Beretta is going down the plastic/striker-fired road as well.

Like it or not plastic and striker-fired is our future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlombard View Post
You can--for whatever reason--take a DAO firearm and by cocking the hammer, simulate single action triggering if I'm not mistaken.
I'd never even thought about that until I read your post this morning. I didn't think it possible but I decided to open up the safe and try it anyway rather than look foolish posting an incorrect response. I was right. It didn't work. Not with my DAO 3rd Gens anyway!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 04-19-2016, 08:51 AM
Arik Arik is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,935
Likes: 6,535
Liked 14,762 Times in 6,368 Posts
Default

There are plenty of other striker fired guns aside from S&W and Glock. The only company I can think of of the top of my head that does not offer a striker is CZ.

All 3rd gens are hammer fired. Some are DAO and some are SA/DA. Some of the DAO have a flush hammer so they may spear to be striker fired.

Advantages are that you get a consistent trigger each and every time. DA/SA is typically 10 lbs pull on double action and somewhere around 5 lbs in single action. Strikers are all about 5lbs.

I like both but I like striker better. All hammer fired guns feel differently and I don't care for the trigger pulls. Beretta and CZ seem to be heavier than S&W 3rd gen or Sig. There is no consistency, for me anyway. I can pick up 5 different CZ or Beretta and each will feel like it has a different trigger pull weight in double action. S&W also seem smoother in their DA pull. Where as striker fired guns all feel the same......with a few exceptions lately being the HK VP, Sig 320 and Walther PPQ.

A lot comes down to what you want your gun to do and how you view it. If you're into target shooting, feeling your gun, playing with it then striker fired is probably not for you. If you view it as a training and self defense tool then you look at it more practically and performance trumps feelings

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Last edited by Arik; 04-19-2016 at 08:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-19-2016, 08:43 PM
Leon Narozny Leon Narozny is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 78
Likes: 254
Liked 58 Times in 30 Posts
Default

I have a Ruger LC9S. Great trigger. Woudnt want it on my Model 52
or Model 41, but dont carry them. I like the Ruger even better than my
Gen 4 Glock, that has a very long trigger pull. Like someone said, what
all the major manufacturers are making is what you are going to buy.
I personally love my compact 9.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-20-2016, 06:47 AM
BigBoy99 BigBoy99 is offline
US Veteran
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NE Corner of NC/SE Wisc.
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 101
Liked 1,425 Times in 507 Posts
Default

Call me an old curmudgeon but handguns have thumb cockable hammers and plastic is for the grips. I bought a Glock 21 and after a single full magazine at its first trip to the range, it went back to the store as a trade-in on a Sig 220. Did not enjoy my excursion into the land of plastic, striker fired handguns. Glad to be back into the land of metal frames and hammers!!!
__________________
Bill

Last edited by BigBoy99; 04-20-2016 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Typo!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-20-2016, 07:30 AM
DD357 DD357 is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Morgan Co, IN
Posts: 568
Likes: 374
Liked 386 Times in 223 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoy99 View Post
Call me an old curmudgeon but handguns have thumb cockable hammers and plastic is for the grips. I bought a Glock 21 and after a single full magazine at its first trip to the range, it went back to the store as a trade-in on a Sig 220. Did not enjoy my excursion into the land of plastic, striker fired handguns. Glad to be back into the land of metal frames and hammers!!!
I guess we both are then; while I think you dislike them more than I do they are not my preference either.
__________________
K & N S&W revolvers
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:54 PM
lhump1961's Avatar
lhump1961 lhump1961 is offline
US Veteran
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 1,145
Liked 1,588 Times in 695 Posts
Default

I have and enjoy both...prefer the DA/SA of the earlier guns. The pull on a 39-2 in DA is similar to but heavier than my revolvers and I don't have any trouble with the first shot. Reset is outstanding on Smith's pre-fantastic plastic autos...if you haven't paid attention or had a chance to shoot one you may be surprised.

I'm a firearms enthusiast who's hobby happens to have self defense applications so I approach it from that angle. I will carry any of my guns and have confidence in my ability with both traditional DA or striker fired. Spend enough time behind most any gun and you can be proficient with it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:02 PM
.455_Hunter's Avatar
.455_Hunter .455_Hunter is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Front Range of Colorado
Posts: 661
Likes: 468
Liked 531 Times in 220 Posts
Default

Most striker guns are really an answer looking for a problem.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:21 PM
5Wire's Avatar
5Wire 5Wire is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portsmouth NH USA
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 1,330
Liked 1,249 Times in 507 Posts
Default

There are some outstanding striker fired pistols. The two that come to mind both have second (and subsequent) strike capability: with all variations of the Heckler & Koch P7s counting as one (all steel) and the Walther P99/S&W99 counting as the the other. All are accurate and have terrific triggers.
__________________
Bob
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:55 PM
Smith357's Avatar
Smith357 Smith357 is offline
Administrator
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 4,533
Likes: 888
Liked 3,065 Times in 741 Posts
Default

Many moons ago when the Glock was a new thing, my neighbor took me out to try his new glock wunder 9. My first impression was it had the worst trigger I had ever put a finger on. Fast forward to just a few years ago I decided to give the plastic wunder guns a second chance and picked up an M&P 45. The trigger was horrid, after a Burwell trigger job it was just atrocious. The gun itself worked well, and was acceptable in the accuracy dept. I eventually learned how to use the mushy trigger. When I had the chance to trade the M&P straight up for a DA/SA 4506 I jumped at the chance and never looked back.

It seems that the plastic striker fired guns with stamped sheet metal innards are here to stay, because they are cheap to make, there is a huge profit in it for the manufactures, and a large segment of the shooing population has come to believe that heavy mushy triggers are normal.
__________________
Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-20-2016, 06:00 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith357 View Post
It seems that the plastic striker fired guns with stamped sheet metal innards are here to stay, because they are cheap to make, there is a huge profit in it for the manufactures, and a large segment of the shooing population has come to believe that heavy mushy triggers are normal.
Amen. There's the long and short of it right there.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 04-20-2016, 07:59 PM
Arik Arik is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,935
Likes: 6,535
Liked 14,762 Times in 6,368 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter View Post
Most striker guns are really an answer looking for a problem.
Yea thats it! Different trigger pulls are always better than one consistent one.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 04-20-2016, 08:03 PM
Arik Arik is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,935
Likes: 6,535
Liked 14,762 Times in 6,368 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smith357 View Post
large segment of the shooing population has come to believe that heavy mushy triggers are normal.
I don't see how they are mushy or heavy. 5lbs vs 10 lbs DA. Weight pull is the only thing that bothers me. 10 lbs should not be. It's stupid heavy for a defensive pistol, or target. I like my 5lbs or so consistent strickers. Don't notice mush or spongy or springy.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 04-20-2016, 08:14 PM
kwh kwh is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 81
Likes: 65
Liked 45 Times in 31 Posts
Default

Kahr striker fired pistols have a longer smooth pull;like a DA revolver only smoother. Also lower bore axis helps with muzzle flip.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 04-20-2016, 08:19 PM
dlombard dlombard is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southern California
Posts: 146
Likes: 473
Liked 65 Times in 38 Posts
Default

An SD40VE is a Striker Fire pistol with a relatively heavy trigger pull of about 8lbs. and is called "SDT" ("Self-Defense" Trigger) by S&W, I suppose with the idea that you're not going to pull unless it's an SD situation. And then, if it is, the trigger weight isn't going to matter given the adrenaline inherent to the situation. Last thing a person would want to be, though, is confused by trigger travel and the change in weight. For instance, I Like the idea of a 92FS as an HD weapon. Except for the fact that unless you carry it cocked with the safety off (bad idea), the second trigger pull will be noticeably different than the first. Training is everything and so ultimately, I would imagine that's the sort of thing one learns to overcome... You know you're on pull #2, and, you're taking the safety off every time you draw. It's not as plug-and-play as your "just do it" style guns (like a Glock or the SD series S&Ws), so if that's what someone is looking for, I can imagine that Striker Fire would be their preference.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-20-2016, 08:25 PM
Leon Narozny Leon Narozny is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 78
Likes: 254
Liked 58 Times in 30 Posts
Default

When God created the heaven and the earth there were Model 41s Model 52s L frame revolvers and 65 Mustangs. I have all of those, Then along came the plastic and bean counters and they said "no longer shall great things be built, because we cant make enough money on them and all those craftsman at ye Smith and Wesson are gone, and also people will buy crappy cars that all look alike, and they were pleased" And all the
people had to suffer. Thats the way it is folks. I love 50s music,60s cars
and all OLD guns. But I am old and when I die, everybody will say...
"what the hell was wrong with him?"
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-20-2016, 11:25 PM
lhump1961's Avatar
lhump1961 lhump1961 is offline
US Veteran
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 1,145
Liked 1,588 Times in 695 Posts
Default

I was at the trap range a couple of days ago just for practice so I didn't know the guys I was shooting with. The round began and after the first clay the guy to my right complained to me that he thought they were flying too high and was looking for me to agree. There was a bit of a breeze in our face so I suppose they were lifting a little. I shrugged and my only comment was that we have to shoot the bird wherever it goes. He grumbled a couple of more times during the round and seemed irritated that the birds weren't flying "perfectly" to his expectation. After the round he was conversing with the puller about it and complaining that the last puller he had ruined his round and on and on. Apparently he can only shoot well when everything is perfect.

I say this in the context of triggers. There are as many different triggers as there are guns and while it is fine to have a preference it seems to me that a person can either shoot guns well or they can't. If a person can only shoot well with a gun that has a certain "perfect" trigger for them then I wouldn't call them good with guns...maybe good with their gun but not overall.

I own all different types of guns and enjoy the variety they offer. Nothing wrong with a favorite type of trigger but the world of guns is a lot more fun when you embrace them all! I shoot them all pretty well, too.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-20-2016, 11:39 PM
rwsmith's Avatar
rwsmith rwsmith is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: (outside) Charleston, SC
Posts: 21,194
Likes: 24,889
Liked 16,958 Times in 8,479 Posts
Default They'll look at your estate and say.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon Narozny View Post
When God created the heaven and the earth there were Model 41s Model 52s L frame revolvers and 65 Mustangs. I have all of those, Then along came the plastic and bean counters and they said "no longer shall great things be built, because we cant make enough money on them and all those craftsman at ye Smith and Wesson are gone, and also people will buy crappy cars that all look alike, and they were pleased" And all the
people had to suffer. Thats the way it is folks. I love 50s music,60s cars
and all OLD guns. But I am old and when I die, everybody will say...
"what the hell was wrong with him?"
.."Nothing here but a lot of old stuff."
__________________
"He was kinda funny lookin'"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 04-21-2016, 03:32 AM
DanHend DanHend is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 83
Likes: 15
Liked 101 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Amen. There's the long and short of it right there.
Not quite. While Sig did come out with the P320, they're still coming out with metal guns as well. The P210 is being rereleased later in the year and they're also a year out from restarting the Sig Mastershop in the US. That will bring a lot of X5s back to the market, possibly with a lower price like the P210.

Meanwhile, S&W is allergic to money. Unless of course every "operator" feels naked without their 460VXR or .500 mag.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 04-21-2016, 06:22 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHend View Post
Not quite. While Sig did come out with the P320, they're still coming out with metal guns as well. The P210 is being rereleased later in the year and they're also a year out from restarting the Sig Mastershop in the US. That will bring a lot of X5s back to the market, possibly with a lower price like the P210.
Good for Sig bringing back some of their old metal specialty guns in the $2K to $3K range. With a little luck, they will sell 1 or 2 of them for each hundred P320 plastic wonder guns they push out the door.

As much as I prefer all-metal, you won't find me buying those guns. I'm still struggling financially just to find a plain Jane P226 that I can afford to add to the collection.

As interesting as this Sig news may be, I don't see it as reversing or even slowing down the trend toward cheap, plastic, striker-fired wonder guns. But I have been wrong before. Maybe I am wrong again this time.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 04-21-2016, 07:01 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlombard View Post
An SD40VE is a Striker Fire pistol with a relatively heavy trigger pull of about 8lbs. and is called "SDT" ("Self-Defense" Trigger) by S&W, I suppose with the idea that you're not going to pull unless it's an SD situation. And then, if it is, the trigger weight isn't going to matter given the adrenaline inherent to the situation.
I do love the term "Self-Defense Trigger"! It's brilliant marketing and it seems to have worked. That's what you call turning lemons into lemonade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhump1961 View Post
There are as many different triggers as there are guns and while it is fine to have a preference it seems to me that a person can either shoot guns well or they can't. If a person can only shoot well with a gun that has a certain "perfect" trigger for them then I wouldn't call them good with guns...maybe good with their gun but not overall.

I own all different types of guns and enjoy the variety they offer. Nothing wrong with a favorite type of trigger but the world of guns is a lot more fun when you embrace them all! I shoot them all pretty well, too.
I tend to agree with you as evidenced by the fact that I also shoot all sorts of handguns regularly... the good, the bad and the ugly... specifically to educate and desensitize myself to the wide variation in triggers out there today, especially here in moonbat Massachusetts.

You might want to try a really bad example of a Massachusetts trigger sometime. You might be surprised at just how nasty the trigger can be on a modern plastic gun.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 04-21-2016, 07:34 AM
BAM-BAM BAM-BAM is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Western Pa.
Posts: 7,283
Likes: 154
Liked 8,032 Times in 3,844 Posts
Default

As a civilian carrying a handgun....... I like the long trigger pull on a revolver or DA/SA handgun...... over the short trigger on a Glock Yes I tried and owned 3/4 Glocks (19s/26s) in the late 80s early 90s.

Course I grew up shooting double action revolvers.

If I'm shooting for tiny little groups at 50ft or 25yds....... revolvers are used single action ........ and my auto of choice is my Dad's old model 41.

Just an FYI if you have a Beretta...... you can use the D Hammer Spring from their DOA guns in a standard DA/SA... $5 trigger job!!!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 04-21-2016, 08:21 AM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 4,470
Likes: 8,324
Liked 4,579 Times in 1,309 Posts
Default

I think that the willingness to accept lousy triggers by many, is attributable to their limited experience with really nice triggers.

IE if all you have ever shot is Glocks or m&ps or Sigmas, how would you know what a good trigger pull feels like?

I was amazed at a post on another board by an alleged moderator. He opined that a good trigger pull "was a crutch". A moderator on a gun board said that. Another person responded to him and asked if his allegation were true, why was Apex making so much money giving m&p pistols the triggers they should have gotten from the factory? Good point.

Anyways, Ill follow Col. Cooper, Mas Ayoob and several other experienced marksmen I respect who have stated in print that a good trigger is fundamental to good marksmanship. I think those fellows know what they are talking about. YMMV Regards 18DAI
__________________
8 + 1 rounds of hope & change.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-21-2016, 08:42 AM
DanHend DanHend is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 83
Likes: 15
Liked 101 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
As much as I prefer all-metal, you won't find me buying those guns. I'm still struggling financially just to find a plain Jane P226 that I can afford to add to the collection.

As interesting as this Sig news may be, I don't see it as reversing or even slowing down the trend toward cheap, plastic, striker-fired wonder guns. But I have been wrong before. Maybe I am wrong again this time.
CDNN has pre-owned LE models at $489 in great shape. 9mm is an easy barrel swap. There are oodles on Gunbroker. If anything, the trend right now is toward the higher end all metal guns. P220 10mm are hard to find. The Legion models are selling like hot cakes. Wilson Combat is also selling every gun Beretta can make for them, and they've completely sold out their first run of M9A3s. All of those were the FS model, not the G conversions that a lot of people are waiting for.

They're still selling at a higher rate than revolvers, and Smith & Wesson doesn't seem to be moving revolvers at that high a rate.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 04-21-2016, 09:17 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHend View Post
CDNN has pre-owned LE models at $489 in great shape. 9mm is an easy barrel swap. There are oodles on Gunbroker. If anything, the trend right now is toward the higher end all metal guns. P220 10mm are hard to find. The Legion models are selling like hot cakes. Wilson Combat is also selling every gun Beretta can make for them, and they've completely sold out their first run of M9A3s. All of those were the FS model, not the G conversions that a lot of people are waiting for.

They're still selling at a higher rate than revolvers, and Smith & Wesson doesn't seem to be moving revolvers at that high a rate.
Well, two points:

1) I am very particular (many would say peculiar!) about the used guns I buy. I have to see, touch, smell and feel them in person 90% of the time... or at least get enough super-hi-def photos to convince myself that I won't get the big zing yet again. In other words, most on-line LEO trade-ins are out of the question for me. And yes, I want a 9mm P226... not a .40 or .357 Sig. Sig barrel conversions are $199 around here but I'm sure they are cheaper on-line.

2) Don't take offense but I'm still not seeing the evidence that all-metal guns are making a huge comeback and threatening the overwhelming trend toward cheap plastic. The Sig P220 10mm would be a fantastic addition to my collection... but it isn't MA-compliant and I doubt I'll ever be in a position to buy one. I love my Beretta 92FS and wanted dearly to add a Beretta 92FS INOX to my collection... but the price jumped $50 the very day I went in to buy one (no, that is not a joke!) and I was already straining like mad and beyond just to make the old price. I had to walk away. Meanwhile, I see cheap plastic wonder guns walking out the gun shop doors like a parade.

BTW, I'm not getting your point (here and above) re: S&W revolvers. I'm not seeing the tie-in to the topic. Perhaps you could clarify?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 04-21-2016, 12:02 PM
DD357 DD357 is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Morgan Co, IN
Posts: 568
Likes: 374
Liked 386 Times in 223 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHend View Post

They're still selling at a higher rate than revolvers, and Smith & Wesson doesn't seem to be moving revolvers at that high a rate.
Well for one thing S&W seems to have issues installing barrel straight on them, I'm not surprised. Between the stupid lock and their spotty QC I have no desire to run out and buy a new one.
__________________
K & N S&W revolvers
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 04-21-2016, 04:19 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 325
Liked 1,066 Times in 547 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Anyways, Ill follow Col. Cooper, Mas Ayoob and several other experienced marksmen I respect who have stated in print that a good trigger is fundamental to good marksmanship. I think those fellows know what they are talking about. YMMV Regards 18DAI
I agree, but applying context changes things a bit from my perspective.

Mas Ayoob also differentiates between the desirable characteristics of a good target or competition gun's trigger from those suitable for a defensive weapon. He carries Glock's as often, if not more than anything else and all are equipped with OEM 8 lb NY trigger spring modules coupled with stock connectors.

I just don't feel a high degree of precision marksmanship is truly necessary in the context of civilian personal defense. No doubt you need to be able to put rounds on target, but the majority of self-defense situations are reactive close-quarter encounters. Due to the compressed distances and time frames and the probable need for movement and unarmed defensive tactics, threat focused shooting is most suitable with precision accuracy not being practical nor likely achievable.

In an actual defense situation, I find it difficult to believe that some of the finer points of what distinguishes a 'good trigger' from a 'bad' one What is a “good” trigger? – www.GrantCunningham.com would likely matter much or at all considering the loss of dexterity and fine motor skills that accompany the adrenaline fueled fight or flight response.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #29  
Old 04-22-2016, 06:46 AM
trailmix's Avatar
trailmix trailmix is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 87
Likes: 41
Liked 63 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
I think that the willingness to accept lousy triggers by many, is attributable to their limited experience with really nice triggers.

IE if all you have ever shot is Glocks or m&ps or Sigmas, how would you know what a good trigger pull feels like?

I was amazed at a post on another board by an alleged moderator. He opined that a good trigger pull "was a crutch". A moderator on a gun board said that. Another person responded to him and asked if his allegation were true, why was Apex making so much money giving m&p pistols the triggers they should have gotten from the factory? Good point.

Anyways, Ill follow Col. Cooper, Mas Ayoob and several other experienced marksmen I respect who have stated in print that a good trigger is fundamental to good marksmanship. I think those fellows know what they are talking about. YMMV Regards 18DAI
I totally agree. My first pistol was a Sigma 40 that I bought for home defense. Practicing with that gun was a major chore because my accuracy with that gun was terrible. No grouping-just all over the place. My trips to the range became less and less frequent until I stopped going all together. I just thought I was a terrible shot. A few years later I fell in love with a Sig P6 at the gun store and I just had to have it. It sat in my closet for several months before I tried it out but when I did I was blown away. First mag: 8 rounds in a 5inch bullseye group. No more concentrating on my breathing or my grip or how to squeeze the trigger-just aim and shoot.
For me, a hammer-fired DA/SA beats striker fired any day. Ironically, buying a Sig is what got me into old Smith semi-autos. Go figure.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #30  
Old 04-22-2016, 08:37 AM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 4,470
Likes: 8,324
Liked 4,579 Times in 1,309 Posts
Default

And Sig just reintroduced the P225. Someone sees a market for nice DA/SA pistols.
__________________
8 + 1 rounds of hope & change.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:00 AM
icemn icemn is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 488
Likes: 117
Liked 92 Times in 75 Posts
Default

As far as I know, Col. Cooper was not a fan of DA/SA.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #32  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:10 AM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 4,470
Likes: 8,324
Liked 4,579 Times in 1,309 Posts
Default

No he was not a fan of DA/SA pistols. He WAS a strong proponent of good triggers and espoused the importance of a good trigger in accurate shooting.
__________________
8 + 1 rounds of hope & change.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #33  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:12 AM
DanHend DanHend is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 83
Likes: 15
Liked 101 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Well, two points:

BTW, I'm not getting your point (here and above) re: S&W revolvers. I'm not seeing the tie-in to the topic. Perhaps you could clarify?
For one part of your question, I wouldn't use MA compliance as a guide to what's popular. Like California, it's stupid expensive to get them to check out a gun, and any changes made to the gun (like a different P226 variant) requires retesting (and more cash).

As far as the revolver crack goes, a reason the 3rd Gens were cancelled is because the market wants plastic guns that are lighter, hold more bullets, and far cheaper to make. Revolvers have lost the majority of their popularity. They're also gigantic, heavier than any 1911, and only hold between 5-8 rounds. They also cost Sig money to buy. In other words, they're the exact opposite of what the "market" says it wants.

Using that logic, if S&W wants to make revolvers, they should be making polymer frames because they're cheaper and lighter.

Whereas the market has shown that people will pay more for a premium firearm that's well made and crafted. The CZ Shadow is the overwhelming ruler of competition guns, even over Glock.

It seems counter intuitive, but Bill Wilson is a huge fan of Beretta 92s. He's a big enough industry figure that if he asks if you want to work together and a business venture, you shut up and count how much money you've made. When he talked to Beretta, the Italians declared the 92 dead and the PX4 was the future. No one wanted an improved 92 otherwise the 90-two would have been a massive success.

After using his crowbar of justice, he pryed Beretta's ironclad cheeks far enough open to make a limited run of 1,000 Brigadier Tacticals. In the first week of preorders, they sold out their initial run of 250 pistols and most of their 2nd shipment of 250. It's been such a massive success that it's no longer a limited run. It's been so big they made the Custom Carry as another non-limited run.

They also did a run of the 92G-SDs for the folks stuck in "People's Republics..." and they're hard to find. Even the M9A3 in dog poo brown has sold through it's initial run until they get their new TN plant up and gets through the next order of M9s for the military.

And Sig is drowning in cash to such a degree they've started making their own optics and ammo.

All of this for a type of gun that the market has indicated that it "doesn't want" according the what it does want listed earlier. But it will sell you a .460 XVR with a 10.5" barrel, a 5 round capacity, weighs more than 3 Glocks, and costs around $1,300 street price. But supposedly, according to S&W, more people want that revolver more than a high quality 9mm/.45 that's not a 1911, is of high quality, reliable, can outshoot the average plastic pistol, and is something the average person would use for self defense.

If you're a law enforcement agency and you write a big enough check, you can have them built.

Doing a minor drift, I would not go back to the same strategy that S&W used before they canceled them. I wouldn't bother with a Value Line at all. I wouldn't build a DAO variant. I wouldn't spend the money for an alloy frame model since they didn't sell well and cost the same as the steel models. I wouldn't build any .40 models because they don't sell well and S&W did something with their magazine design to limit them to a max of 11 rounds. Just leave them 9mm and .45, full size TSW with the integrated rail, and the 3913/4513 CCW line that no one had done as good ever since.

Last edited by DanHend; 04-22-2016 at 09:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #34  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:23 AM
BAM-BAM BAM-BAM is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Western Pa.
Posts: 7,283
Likes: 154
Liked 8,032 Times in 3,844 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHend View Post





Doing a minor drift, I would not go back to the same strategy that S&W used before they canceled them. I wouldn't bother with a Value Line at all. I wouldn't build a DAO variant. I wouldn't spend the money for an alloy frame model since they didn't sell well and cost the same as the steel models. I wouldn't build any .40 models because they don't sell well and S&W did something with their magazine design to limit them to a max of 11 rounds. Just leave them 9mm and .45, full size TSW with the integrated rail, and the 3913/4513 CCW line that no one had done as good ever since.
OK!...... well I'd go with the 4566 vs 4506!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #35  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:24 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by icemn View Post
As far as I know, Col. Cooper was not a fan of DA/SA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
No he was not a fan of DA/SA pistols. He WAS a strong proponent of good triggers and espoused the importance of a good trigger in accurate shooting.
Wasn't he all about the 1911 and, really, not a whole lot else?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #36  
Old 04-22-2016, 09:35 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
Mas Ayoob also differentiates between the desirable characteristics of a good target or competition gun's trigger from those suitable for a defensive weapon.
As well he should. I'm not looking for a hair trigger on the gun I carry in my pocket. Use of safety notwithstanding, I'd probably shoot myself getting in or out of the car. I recently had a chance to try a bullseye competition grade single action pistol with the lightest trigger ever (lighter than any Model 41 or 52-2 I've ever picked up). It was fabulous for me at the range, but I'm not asking for that on a carry or personal defense gun. On the other hand, too many of the striker-fired plastic wonders I've tried are simply atrocious trigger-wise, especially here behind enemy lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
I just don't feel a high degree of precision marksmanship is truly necessary in the context of civilian personal defense. No doubt you need to be able to put rounds on target, but the majority of self-defense situations are reactive close-quarter encounters. Due to the compressed distances and time frames and the probable need for movement and unarmed defensive tactics, threat focused shooting is most suitable with precision accuracy not being practical nor likely achievable.

In an actual defense situation, I find it difficult to believe that some of the finer points of what distinguishes a 'good trigger' from a 'bad' one What is a “good” trigger? – www.GrantCunningham.com would likely matter much or at all considering the loss of dexterity and fine motor skills that accompany the adrenaline fueled fight or flight response.
If you ever want a new job, you'd make a great Assistant AG in the People's Republic of Taxachusetts.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #37  
Old 04-22-2016, 10:00 AM
petepeterson's Avatar
petepeterson petepeterson is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,967
Likes: 3,604
Liked 2,487 Times in 1,106 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Wasn't he all about the 1911 and, really, not a whole lot else?
He was a fan of the CZ design, and was a proponent of the Bren Ten, which was based on the CZ DA pistols. He definitely was all about the 1911, but even moreso about a good trigger being key to accurate shooting.
__________________
Because of the metric system?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #38  
Old 04-22-2016, 10:01 AM
DanHend DanHend is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 83
Likes: 15
Liked 101 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
OK!...... well I'd go with the 4566 vs 4506!
Oh snap! I completely forgot about that. I'm use to S&W autos having 4" barrels. I completely forgot the .45s came in 5" versions. I'll pretend I meant for that distinction and say 5" models and a small batch of 10mm are reserved "if sales warrant them..."
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 04-22-2016, 10:03 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHend View Post
As far as the revolver crack goes...
I'm giving your post a "like" just for the writing effort alone even if I don't understand most of it. Maybe just a huge mental block on my part. I am, after all, not your typical handgun buyer today. At least I don't think I am.

For the record, I'd still be buying S&W revolvers today if it weren't for the stupid IL and a few other cheapening down measures that turn me off. I'm not a fan of a lot of their newfangled revolver designs and the mega-monster caliber hunting guns, but I can think of at least half a dozen S&W revolvers that I'd love add to the collection this year if it were not for the silly IL (which I find repulsive on multiple levels).

I did understand your points about some of the newly minted all-metal pistols and updated designs... and I think that's a great thing even if not necessarily for me personally.

I can't agree with your last paragraph at all. We all have our own ideas about how we'd like to see S&W re-introduce at least some of the 3rd Gen guns or updated versions thereof. It is discussed here quite regularly. But again, I am not your typical gun buyer today and my collection of used 3rd Gens along with harsh financial realities probably wouldn't make me the most anxious and aggressive buyer of brand new ones anyway with the possible exception of a new version 4506 or 1006.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #40  
Old 04-22-2016, 10:08 AM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by petepeterson View Post
He was a fan of the CZ design, and was a proponent of the Bren Ten, which was based on the CZ DA pistols. He definitely was all about the 1911, but even moreso about a good trigger being key to accurate shooting.
Of course! How could I forget his Bren Ten!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #41  
Old 04-22-2016, 10:18 AM
mbliss57's Avatar
mbliss57 mbliss57 is offline
SWCA Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,929
Likes: 3,116
Liked 3,605 Times in 1,185 Posts
Default

Lots of truth and preferences. I prefer hammer fired. My gun, my preference. Do I think they are far superior. A little in that the hammer is a part of the gun ( a tool) that can be manipulated by the user in certain situations. With the striker fired you have only one option..pull the trigger.
I don't believe striker fired are less reliable. I just prefer to have more control over my firearm.
__________________
John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #42  
Old 04-22-2016, 12:49 PM
Towns's Avatar
Towns Towns is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 81
Likes: 388
Liked 89 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
You might want to try a really bad example of a Massachusetts trigger sometime. You might be surprised at just how nasty the trigger can be on a modern plastic gun.
Amen. I kind of like heavier triggers if they're good triggers, so thought about getting a Walther PPS with Mass trigger. Found out I did NOT want that one after all.

My son put a NY1 trigger in a Glock 19 and it was actually a very good 9 # trigger pull, with a good break.

My 6906 has a 10 to 11 lb trigger in DA, and it is VERY smooth.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #43  
Old 04-22-2016, 01:04 PM
Ed Fowler's Avatar
Ed Fowler Ed Fowler is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central Wyoming
Posts: 911
Likes: 1,964
Liked 1,123 Times in 472 Posts
Default

I fear the day of the disposable hand gun is not far away, may even be here now.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #44  
Old 04-22-2016, 01:24 PM
TTSH's Avatar
TTSH TTSH is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 4,560
Likes: 8,424
Liked 4,393 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Towns View Post
Amen. I kind of like heavier triggers if they're good triggers, so thought about getting a Walther PPS with Mass trigger. Found out I did NOT want that one after all.

My son put a NY1 trigger in a Glock 19 and it was actually a very good 9 # trigger pull, with a good break.

My 6906 has a 10 to 11 lb trigger in DA, and it is VERY smooth.
The MA-compliant trigger on the old Walther PPS was widely regarded as one of the absolute worst triggers ever. For years, I wanted a PPS so badly... but it was essentially a useless hunk of plastic with that incredibly awful MA trigger.

Fortunately for me, right before the introduction of the PPS M2 when Walther was blowing out the old model at bargain basement prices, I was able to get my hands on a free state version of the PPS. Can't say where or how... but what a difference!!! It's still not what I would call an outstanding trigger, but it is certainly miles ahead of the MA-compliant version.

Other than the insanely terrible MA-compliant PPS, the worst triggers I've ever found were on various MA-complaint M&P45 and Shield .40 pistols... some of them virtually unusable. But like I've said before, there is a lot of variation in S&W MA-compliant triggers. Eventually, I found an M&P45 FS that I could live with... and I bought it. Not so much for the Shield .40, but it's not a pistol I'm all that interested in anyway. Both of my Shield 9's were hand-picked and are more-or-less okay.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #45  
Old 04-22-2016, 03:57 PM
spad124 spad124 is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 745
Likes: 1,114
Liked 436 Times in 221 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
And Sig just reintroduced the P225. Someone sees a market for nice DA/SA pistols.
I suspect they reintroduced the 225 to capitalize on the hot market for concealable single stack 9mms. They still had the tooling. It was easy to spool up production.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-23-2016, 06:42 AM
trailmix's Avatar
trailmix trailmix is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 87
Likes: 41
Liked 63 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spad124 View Post
I suspect they reintroduced the 225 to capitalize on the hot market for concealable single stack 9mms. They still had the tooling. It was easy to spool up production.
I may be mistaken but I don't think it is the same gun as the original P225.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #47  
Old 04-23-2016, 06:50 AM
Arik Arik is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Outside Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 14,935
Likes: 6,535
Liked 14,762 Times in 6,368 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
I may be mistaken but I don't think it is the same gun as the original P225.
It's not, even mags are different. Besides that the Originals were made in Germany. These are made in the US. Sig USA and SIG are in a way two different companies

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #48  
Old 04-23-2016, 07:46 AM
petepeterson's Avatar
petepeterson petepeterson is online now
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,967
Likes: 3,604
Liked 2,487 Times in 1,106 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Of course! How could I forget his Bren Ten!
We'll forgive you for not wearing your Sonny Crockett outfit on a routine basis. It gets cold where you live...
__________________
Because of the metric system?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #49  
Old 04-23-2016, 08:02 AM
trailmix's Avatar
trailmix trailmix is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 87
Likes: 41
Liked 63 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
It's not, even mags are different. Besides that the Originals were made in Germany. These are made in the US. Sig USA and SIG are in a way two different companies

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Yeah, when the new 225 came out I tried to buy a couple extra mags but my guy at the gun store (who also owns a P6) informed me that they wouldn't work.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-23-2016, 08:44 AM
DanHend DanHend is offline
Member
Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire? Striker Fire rather than Hammer Fire?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 83
Likes: 15
Liked 101 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Quote:
I suspect they reintroduced the 225 to capitalize on the hot market for concealable single stack 9mms. They still had the tooling. It was easy to spool up production.
Part of this has already been mentioned, but Sig has had the P239 in production for about a decade and is a better gun for CCW work. As far as shootability goes, the P225A1 is much, much better and comfortable.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What happens when you park in front of a fire hydrant, and there is a fire! Retired LTC, USAR The Lounge 50 05-05-2016 08:59 AM
Striker Fire Safety :) Radco Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 10 06-08-2015 05:16 PM
Why no striker fire 22LR? bobermo Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 4 03-04-2013 12:34 PM
What is Striker Fire? RichardF Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 3 08-18-2012 09:52 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:42 PM.


© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)