Well tonight is not my night. Took my 1911 to my cleaning bench after my recent range session. Have nearly 4,000 rounds through her now, and by far my favorite handgun. Went to take of the grips, and one of the bushings backed out of the frame. Figured wasn't a horrible issue, threads on the bushing were fine-just loosened out of the frame.

Started to clean and inspect and found hairline crack start on the slide just above the extractor by the ejection port. Looks like a phone call to S&W is in order for Monday morning.

Well, that sucks duckweed. Yeah, a call would seem to be in order.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Well got my 1911 back exactly 4 weeks since I shipped to S&W. They replaced the grips screw bushing, replaced the ambi-safety, and looks like they polished the barrel. However, they did not replace the slide. Paperwork shows reason for return as "cracked slide." On the sheet it states "range test passed." Included is a sheet which I believe lists all the parts in the gun with two columns beside: repaired, and replaced. Nothing is checked off or indicated as repaired or replaced. Looks like a phone call is in order for tomorrow.

Too many folks don't bother to read.

The only 1911 cracks I've seen are at the slide release hole.

Very old and used slides will occasionally display indications of battering, but not cracking.

If this is a new gun, another call to S&W and another trip to the Mothership is indicated.

I'd send it back as many times as it takes.

Selling it would yield a 50% discount on your purchase price.

This is a pretty big deal.

If you have access to a stereo microscope or another type of low power microscope a closer look might yield positive results. Because when you do some thought experiments about this you'll come to the conclusion that this particular area of the slide is under almost load of any description. I think it's possible that crack may be nothing more than a rub mark or a scratch. However, that is simply a possibility, not a conclusion. In order to arrive at a definite conclusion a microscopic examination is required. BTW, some of the high end smart phones feature a high magnification close up feature that actually works pretty well for getting a close look at something like this, so if you have a friend with an Apple 6 or similar you may want to reach out for some help.

Rpg, the gun is an older model from S&W--2004 manufacture. However, it only has approximately 4,000 rounds through it. The recoil spring was replaced around 2,000 rounds, and the gun does not see any +P ammunition. I have no intentions of selling this gun, as it is by far my favorite handgun, just want to make sure it is safe.

Scooter123, unfortunately I don't have access to a microscope. The crack does line up with the barrel hood, but there are several thousands between the two. As mentioned prior, the gun does not see any higher pressure rounds. My wife has a pretty good DSLR camera, so I'll see if I can get a better picture. I do know that you can feel a variation in the metal surface with a pick.

Called S&W today, and the Rep assured me the gun is safe. So not sure what to do.

Tried to get a better pic.

You might want to pull the extractor and look under the shroud to see if the crack extends underneath. If not, I wouldn't worry about it. Since there is no pressure in this area, I suspect it was there all along and has just become apparent overtime with use and cleaning. I also would call S&W again and state you case on resale price drop. Don't give up. Never surrender. This is issue that they ware as the manufacturer.

I agree that the crack is in a non-crucial area, but I also agree it will effect the resale value of the gun and it falls under the "manufacturing defect" portion of the warranty. If the Rep told me it wouldn't hurt anything, I'd ask for a supervisor. Stick to your gun(s)! Pun intended.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I called S&W again on my 1911, and the Rep, while nice, went into the same speech about the gun was tested and is fine. So I told the Rep that my gunsmith didn't advise shooting any semi-automatic with a known crack in the slide--and asked him if he would feel comfortable firing a gun with one. At which time the Rep started to get irritated with me--so I pointed out the paperwork they sent me back indicated the reason for return as "cracked slide," but does not show any repairs or replacement being done--and is only noted that it functioned & passed a range test. So if the firearm came apart and injured someone it would not look good. The Rep had me email him pictures, and shortly after I did, he sent back an email that the area did look "suspicious," and sent me another shipping label.

S&W Customer Service has always been top-notch by me, and I was surprised by the somewhat lack of concern with the issue presented. Since I was told after it was originally shipped back that the gun was with their Metallurgy Department, which would take longer & they would contact me. I never was contacted, and when I followed-up after 3 weeks they told me it was being shipped back.

[QUOTE=novalty;139137010]Rpg, the gun is an older model from S&W--2004 manufacture. However, it only has approximately 4,000 rounds through it. The recoil spring was replaced around 2,000 rounds, and the gun does not see any +P ammunition. I have no intentions of selling this gun, as it is by far my favorite handgun, just want to make sure it is safe"

I doubt the crack poses a safety issue. It is primarily cosmetic.

I suspect the crack is related to machining the external extractor cut out on the slide.

I think any functional failure ( unlikely as it is) would occur in the failure (perhaps disintegration) of the extractor mechanism.

I doubt it would create a safety issue unless you needed the next round.

Since your 1911 is purely a range gun, you don't need that next round. The worst that could happen is you score badly in some competition game.

By the way, I have Colt 1911's with factory recoil springs with many thousands of rounds fired and no need for replacement.

Seems coil springs are very resilient.

Hard to imagine that 2,000 compressions would indicate a need for replacement.

After all, I've got a bunch of springs compressing and releasing compression many thousands of times in a minute in my Toyota 4 runner. Probably more compressions and releases driving to the corner than any 1911 has ever experienced.

Replacing springs after 2,000 rounds seems unnecessary unless you imagine I have to replace the springs in my 4 Runner every time I get to a stop sign.

It would be odd if such a change was necessary, or even helpful, considering I have 200,000+ miles on my 4 Runner without changing the springs that now have worked just fine over what must be many millions of compressions and releases.

Rpg,

I have no intention of getting into an argument over this, and I never got into argument with the person I spoke with at S&W--nor did I yell or ask to speak with Supervisor. However, given the issue, I would like a more thorough "ok to shoot," than what I was given.

Using your vehicle example. Imagine you find a hole in one of the rear shackles for your leaf springs. Now you take to the dealership, and they tell you someone will follow-up with you once it's been examined. Then 3 weeks later you call the dealership back, and they say your vehicles ready to be picked up. Then when you get there the repair slips says "test drove--didn't break". Well maybe you'd be okay with that explanation, I mean what's the worst that could happen, shackle breaks and springs goes up through the body--probably nobody's going to get hurt.

As far as replacing recoil spring, they are cheap and easy to replace. I think at the time I replaced it I had looked up and found a Wilson Combat parts replacement chart that said 2,000 rounds. In your vehicle example, shocks would be a more appropriate example, as leaf-springs generally aren't under a load that flexes/compresses them--but your shocks bare the brunt of frequent compression. You have probably replaced your shocks in those 200,000 miles...

Usually depends on what type of system my cars have under them. I know my Caddie has a air ride system on the rear which just keeps working perfectly even now after 17 years. The front struts have been replaced but not the rears at all.

I think I'm with novalty on this one. In the end, he just wants his gun to be right. There's nothing wrong with that. The cracked slide should have been caught by QC at the factory and tossed in the "no go" bin.

I realize that there was probably time invested in this slide with several steps of the machining process before it reaches the inspection phase that would have discovered the crack, but the end-buyer shouldn't have to settle for a "good enough" part simply because they already have time/money wrapped up in a part. I used to be a semi-production/custom run machinist, and when a part had defects, whether functional or cosmetic, it was scrapped.

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Matthew 5:9

Given the location of the crack, S&W is correct, it's still safe to shoot. Or is it? The fact that this crack developed in a relatively non-stressed area also leads the the remainder of the slide being suspect, at least in my not-so-humble-opinion. On top of that, I doubt that anyone here would buy the gun like that, unless novalty was willing to sell it at a substantial loss. Unless subjected to overloaded ammunition or 100,000's of rounds, frames should not crack - period. The fact that this crack developed in a relatively non-stressed area also leads the the remainder of the slide being suspect, at least in my not-so-humble-opinion. S&W needs to step up on this one.

As far as comparing this to a car, that's completely apples to oranges, but I'll offer this: Volkswagen sold thousands of diesel cars here that can't pass emission standards w/o their software being altered. It doesn't impact the operation of the car in any way, yet owners are going to take a hit when they sell their vehicles. That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of the US judicial system which is working with VW to compensate these owners. Simple "make it right" policy, which both VW and S&W, along with all other manufacturing companies need to adhere to.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I'll have to go a bit further...
Comparing springs in a handgun to a Toyota 4Runner is silly and has basically no relevance whatsoever.

Consider how many times I had to hit the space bar simply entering this post. I've got 700+ posts here. 10,000 posts on another gun forum. Been using this keyboard since 2010. The springs under my space bar have never let me down.

How does this relate to a Smith & Wesson?
It doesn't. It's ludicrous to even bring it up for discussion.

To the subject of the pistol in question...
Smith & Wesson has built a reputation for standing behind their products. But from my view, they have a couple OTHER reputations being established (and furthered) currently.

1) Like MOST gun makers churning out guns at a record pace in the extremely active market, QC seems to be best found in a museum exhibit... or in our case, best found in the USED guns they don't make anymore.

2) The people who answer the phone and do CS at S&W are a total **** shoot. Can't begin to count the number of folks who get completely varied experiences with S&W Customer Service over the phone. Really seems like the best bet is to call them a few times and be ready to MOVE when you get the response that seems to help.

I hope the OP gets his slide replaced, or they offer him a deep discount on a new pistol. (I would not want one of their new pistols, but that's every bit as much about me as it is about S&W.)

I look forward to hearing this thread updated and this problem resolved.

I had a semi-1911 (Coonan Classic) that developed slide crack at the extractor. It was promptly replaced at no cost to me. That's what good CS should be. I have had great CS from other companies as well. S&W should make this right from the git go.

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The triple smoker

I have these watch springs....

If this left the factory this way I would be very embarrassed if I was a shareholder with S&W. This should not crack at that location either way and yes he should be given either a new slide or a really great deal on a new model of his choosing. I would not feel right shooting this gun with a crack in the slide and push the point on the ph to them as well.

Well not much of an update, but my S&W 1911 has been back at S&W for 4 weeks as of today (given a day off for the 4th.) So I called for an update, and was told "It's with the Metallurgy Department, to determine the cause of the crack." So I asked if they had a time-frame of when I could expect to get an update. Representative said "no," so I pointed out that the gun has now been there a total of 7 weeks for this issue given the last time I sent it in. At this point he said, "All I can tell you is one of two things is going to happen: someone is going to call you, or they are going to send you a letter with their findings." I explained to the Representative, that I would give it more time as S&W has always done right by me in the past, but quite frankly I was disappointed to not have anything for an update yet.

Would like to be able to use the firearm this summer at some point. Will post an update as soon as I hear something from S&W.

The fact that it's at the metallurgy department indicates to me that they recognize it's a problem. They may be going over it to see if it could become a problem on other pistols in the field or it is an isolated incident. If the department decides it's a result in their design/manufacturing process, then sending you a gun with a new slide may only be a temporary fix. On the other hand, if they decide it's a fluke, a new slide should be forth coming. Either way, it looks (at least to me) like they are going to take care of you.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

S&W's metallurgy department will likely take your slide apart and use one of two methods to see if it's cracked, Magnaflux, which is a magnetic particle beam test or a dark colored spray penetrant. These tests are widely used to check for cracks in a lot of auto parts, for example, like pushrods, connecting rods, camshafts and crankshafts.

To my eyes, on my monitor, it looks like a crack to me but it might just be a tool mark that doesn't go very deep.

The issue is definitely not a tool mark, as I have owned the gun a long time and clean it after every range session. Quite frankly, I baby the gun as it is by far my favorite. It's never been dropped or beat on. In the roughly 4,000 rounds I've put through it, the gun has only had maybe 5 issues cycling, all of those being stovepipes--most likely as a result of limp wristing near the end of a range session due to my arthritis.

As far as speculating on what S&W will do, I can't imagine they will send it back with the same slide on it. If it does get a new slide, I hope the gun still shoots as good as it did before. Time will tell.

I certainly hope S&W sends it back with a new slide. Any such defect is totally unacceptable in my opinion. Even more so if you consider what a decent 1911 cost these days.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

Unacceptable.
For me, there's no such thing as a "range gun". I expect any gun I own to be capable of being pressed into "real service" whether I carry it regularly or not. My collection is not vast, and there are only a few that I normally carry, but I expect any and all of them to perform if needed. If this is truly a crack, not an abrasion or smudge, it's not safe to shoot. If it fails at that spot it could be catastrophic or a small piece might just "chink off". Either of those or anything in between could cause injury. Again, not acceptable. I'm actually a little surprised that S&W would acknowledge the issue and not do a real repair or replacement. If, God forbid, any injury occurred, they've pretty much already acknowledged liability for it. The internal billing for their metallurgy department is likely already higher than their cost of a new slide.

I agree with Magnaflux as well. I worked in a Locomotive shop and armoured vehicle shop for over 30 years before I retired. There was no fooling around with any steel parts for either product. All parts were perfect or never installed. You know for sure when you Magnaflux all your parts.

Magnaflux is a good process, but there are other processes that are better. Magnaflux only works on exposed cracks, though it's great because it can show minute cracks not noticeable to the naked eye. Ex-ray and ultra sound, similar in respect to how they check us bi-pods can show cracks and cavities below the surface, though I don't know if S&W has either at their metallurgy lab. In novalty's case, Magnaflux really isn't needed as the crack is already apparent and quite visible.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

As a bystander to this thread, I agree that the OP should expect a replacement slide. At some point, S&W would find it cheaper to fit a new slide than to keep mailing this one back and forth.

On the other hand, I see why they encourage CS reps to filter complaints and push back, at least a little, when people call. Lots of people bubba their guns and S&W shouldn't have to bear the brunt of that (I am not suggesting that happened here, just that it explains S&W CS reps somewhat passive responses -- they are the first line in keeping repair costs down).

Be aware the S&W factory closes down annually for vacation in August... and that may include the Metallurgy Department as well... so a response may be slowed. But, if that is a crack, the OP deserves a new slide...

S&W has always given me great support, although I've only had a couple of complaints over the years. It is easiest for them with newer guns -- parts are available -- but harder obviously for the older guns. I have a number of 3d Gen pistols now and worry that parts may be a problem. Although I'll probably shuffle off this mortal coil before any of those tank-like guns break down.

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S&W Rover

Well getting closer to a resolution. Called S&W again today, and they said my 1911 was transferred from the Metallurgy Dept. to Customer Service last week on 07/26/16. At that point I was thinking, ummm I'm talking with Customer Service--but he said someone would be contacting me. I'm a little concerned at this point at what the answer will be. If they say they will discount me a new gun--it would have to be a severe discount as I cannot afford to replace this gun at this time--as I had bought another S&W 1911 just 2 months ago--so that I could have 1 to hand down to each of my sons. Will post what I find out when I hear something.

The few guns I have returned to S&W for warranty work were back here before they notified me they were done and were shipping it. That may be the normal currently. If they have to make an adjustment, like a discount on another pistol then they will obviously have to contact you. So, no news may be good news thus far.

You might want to look at my earlier thread on 1911 SC issues. It sounds like we have the same CS rep. Hope you get yours worked out to your satisfaction.

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War Eagle!!!

Have you asked them, since the slide is not a firearm, the frame is, how much it would cost to have them just replace it?

That sucks man. I will say my couple-a-few encounters with S&W Customer Service were absolutely exemplary, but admittedly they didn't involve cracks and metallurgy. So what help am I, anyway? But best of luck, hope they make you whole.

I think S&W has one customer service guy who comes off as perpetually grumpy. Some days he's better than others. He talks kind of fast and has what sounds to me to be a slightly NYC accent. He's been there quite a while.

Once I called to talk about an issue and didn't like his answer, so I called back a few minutes later hoping for someone else and got him again. He was clearly irritated at me, which was perfectly understandable!

In that case, maybe just send the gun back along with a box of donuts. Donuts have a way of soothing savage beasts and grumps.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Well I called S&W again yesterday. The Customer Service Rep. asked me if they were sending a replacement when he initially looked at the info on the gun in their system. I told him that I wasn't sure what was happening. So he put me on hold for a minute or so to research. When he came back he said my 1911 was with the Repairs Dept. and they were replacing the slide. Still no timeframe estimate--I sure hope it shoots as good as it did before I sent it in.

Well yesterday afternoon I received a tracking email from Fedex. Looks like my 1911 is back on its way home--should have it tomorrow. Will post an update once I receive it.

I'm guessing they used a two-part spray penetrant system (the most reliable method) to discover what I believed from the start... a expanding crack.
I spent years in engineering with a industrial press repair company. Seen many cracks and suspicious machining flaws that LOOKED like, but were not cracks.

I wouldn't be worrying about how well it will shoot. Who knows - it may shoot BETTER!

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Stay protected my friends.

Well I got my 1911 back, opened the box and my first thought was "wow they still have "Billboard" slides." Second thought was "that's the same slide." Below is a picture of the repair slip. Needless to say I am extremely unhappy. They have had this gun for almost 10 weeks in these last two times being sent back. The Metallurgy Dept. must have determined there was something wrong--otherwise why would they send it to the Repairs Dept. instead of ship it back? Guess another phone call will be in order for Monday morning.

While I cannot comment on the repairs performed or not performed, I do have to wonder how the firearms industry has escaped the influence of consumerism on repair invoices. I once sent a 1911 slide to another U.S. gunmaker and the invoice read, "Replaced small parts." Shucks, the whole slide could be referred to as "small" and when I called to find out what really was done, I was told that they did not retain such records.

By the way, whatever they did or didn't do had no effect on the problem.

Ed