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  #51  
Old 06-22-2016, 12:06 PM
Kl334 Kl334 is offline
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I ended up drilling the head with a number 10 bit and using this spline extractor to get it out. Waiting on new screw from Smith so in the mean time I just dremeled a slot in the screw for a flat blade driver and all is good.



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  #52  
Old 06-22-2016, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieBree View Post
I agree that the screw is tight coming from the factory. I thought the wrench would break on the first takedown and after being frustrated at how hard it was to find a good way to loosen it I almost gave up. Then I came up with a great solution.

Instead of having the gun on the table and trying to torque the wrench, I put the end of the wrench against the table and torqued the gun against it. It took a lot of force but it came lose with no damage to the screw, wrench or gun.

As far as loosening after shooting....
After initial cleaning (the gun comes pretty dirty from the factory) I snugged the screw tight before shooting the first time and it DID loosen. I ran through 220 rounds in an hour and forgot to check it along the way.

Good news; the design is brilliant and even with the screw lose, the gun remained very accurate.

After cleaning it again, I snugged the screw and then torqued it a bit more. I have run another 500 rounds through it and the screw has not loosened again.

As for the grips, they began to have a bit of give in them and slid just enough to be noticeable after that first time shooting. After tightening (requires a smaller wrench) they also remain snugly in place.

BTW: the Allen wrench also work just fine to compress the magazine spring for disassembly. I have found that applying a thin coat of oil to the inside of the magazine works wonders.
Prior to oiling, I had a handful of FTL's. After oil, not one through 500 rounds.
Welcome to the forum. Glad you like the Victory. It has become my favorite shooter. I cleaned my mags and that did help. I'm at the point now where I check the barrel after 50 rounds and retighten if necessary. Some days it stays tight and some days it doesn't. I figure that is what the allen wrench is for.
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  #53  
Old 06-22-2016, 09:26 PM
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I'll start keeping records of build dates in a spreadsheet. Don't post serial #s. Most important is how hard to break loose vs. loosening vs. build date vs. no issues. So, here's the format:

#1 Build date: ####
#2 Can't loosen breakdown screw: y/n
#3 Loosens after fire (but never #1): y/n
#4 No issues with #2 or #3: y/n

what else?
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  #54  
Old 06-22-2016, 11:43 PM
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Default Another stuck takedown screw

I picked up a new SW22 today and have the same problem with the screw being stuck (build date 05/27/16). The supplied allen wrench is now a twisted mess and another hex bit on a ratchet broke off. The pistol works fine and is very accurate. My FFL is also a smith so I'll take it back to him tomorrow to see if he can help loosen it.

By the way, I bought one of these about 6 weeks ago and it was a total lemon; 80% of the time there were no strikes on the rim, just a click. It went back to S&W and was returned "fixed", but still had the same exact issue. My FFL was kind enough to order me a new one and deal with S&W directly. I love the new one, but can't take it down for cleaning.
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  #55  
Old 06-23-2016, 03:47 PM
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#1 Build date: 3/28/16

#2 Can't loosen breakdown screw: y/n Was extremely tight but got it loose.

#3 Loosens after fire (but never #1): No

#4 No issues with #2 or #3: See #2 and #3 No
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  #56  
Old 06-23-2016, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobrajunkie View Post
I'll start keeping records of build dates in a spreadsheet. Don't post serial #s. Most important is how hard to break loose vs. loosening vs. build date vs. no issues. So, here's the format:

#1 Build date: ####
#2 Can't loosen breakdown screw: y/n
#3 Loosens after fire (but never #1): y/n
#4 No issues with #2 or #3: y/n

what else?
My info:
1) 01/12/16
2) No
3) Yes (after 1200 rounds, resolved with Vibra-Tite VC-3)

You might want to add when #3 occurred and how resolved.
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  #57  
Old 06-23-2016, 04:45 PM
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My data:

1) 08/26/2015
2) No
3) Yes (sometimes after 20, sometimes after 70, sometimes never
4) No
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  #58  
Old 06-23-2016, 05:10 PM
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My data:

1) 05/27/16
2) Yes, still stuck
3) N/A
4) No

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  #59  
Old 06-23-2016, 05:16 PM
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I am not a gunsmith but I have a reasonable understanding of designs. I sold a new Volquartsen for a loss of $$ because I could not keep the treaded bolt tight after a minimum amount of rounds down range.

Now the Smith Victory is having the same problems with that design. It's either to tight or to loose.

The Smith 41 trigger guard locks that barrel up in very solid manner.
The Hi Standard barrel fits into the mushroom opening for a solid set up.
The Ruger design is a very solid set up with a unwarranted reputation for difficulty of take down and assembly.

My conclusion is that screwing a threaded bolt thru the barrel into the frame is a logical design but a bad design.
The barrel either comes loose while you are shooting or it is torqued so tight it cannot be unloosened afterward.

MHO
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  #60  
Old 06-23-2016, 10:53 PM
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Setting the screw at 40inch lbs of torque will keep it tight but still allow you to break it open fairly easy also. You can also use a no. 61 sized rubber o-ring as well or just by itself to keep it locked up tight. Still easy to undue after also.
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  #61  
Old 06-24-2016, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie View Post
Setting the screw at 40inch lbs of torque will keep it tight but still allow you to break it open fairly easy also.
This worked for me for about 1200 rounds. Then I had a couple range sessions where I had to tighten the takedown screw 3 or 4 times. Started using Vibra-Tite VC-3 and the problem went away. So, multiple simple solutions to this problem ... but S&W needs to rethink their solution of locking down the screw so tight that nobody can remove it.
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  #62  
Old 06-24-2016, 03:10 PM
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Its obvous that someone at the factory is over tightening the screws in order to have these problems. Perhaps a call to the mothership to let them know may help new buyers in the future as this is not good for sales this way at all.Anyone experiencing this problem I would suggest calling S&W to let them know your frustration with this issue.

Last edited by Barrie; 07-17-2016 at 06:46 PM.
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  #63  
Old 06-24-2016, 04:02 PM
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Yes I would like to know the torque value they are using? 40 inch pounds is enough. Wonder if the torque guy grabbed a 40 foot pound wrench by mistake. How much can that screw handle max?
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  #64  
Old 06-24-2016, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magload View Post
How much can that screw handle max?
I researched this several months ago. The alloy steel #12-28 socket head cap screw can take a lot more than 40 in-lbs; the stainless steel barrel nut is the limiting factor. So I looked up the torque specs for a stainless steel cap screw. Couldn't find specs for a #12-28 screw, so I interpolated between a #10 and 1/4" screw and came up with 60-65 in-lbs. So, I decide to go with 40 in-lbs. It is important to lubricate the screw because yow will get about 1/3 more clamping force for a given torque. BTW, when I started using Vibra-Tite VC-3, I also reduced the torque to 30 in-lbs. This has been working great for me and I've put 3000 rounds thru my Victory.
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  #65  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:01 PM
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Update - my gunsmith had to freeze my pistol and then apply heat to the takedown screw before he was finally able to loosen it. He tried penetrating oil and heat first, but that didn't work. I wasn't aware of the freezing trick before this; maybe it will work for someone else as a last resort before having to send it back to S&W.

Nik
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  #66  
Old 06-25-2016, 11:03 PM
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VC-3 is da bomb for this application, but it shouldn't be needed if S&W got it right in the first place. None of my other guns have this problem, and some of them are fairly rare stainless steel beasties.
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  #67  
Old 06-26-2016, 12:11 PM
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Default Vibra Tite VC-3

Seems like the vc-3 is the way to go...Is anyone (10P8Troit) using it on any other screws on the Victory? Wondered about the barrel screw. Thanks
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  #68  
Old 06-27-2016, 08:52 PM
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I don't post here very often but do visit a lot to absorb information. I looked at a Victory model today and was also impressed with the idea of a single screw for take down. This evening I decided to check the forum for comments. After reading this thread I think I'll stick with the units I have. Maybe S&W will get it corrected in a few months. Good luck to you who have purchased and are having troubles.
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  #69  
Old 06-27-2016, 08:56 PM
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I like mine very much. I just tighten the screw when it needs it. Last time out I shot 100 rounds and it was fine. Going again tomorrow and can't wait to find out how it does this time.
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  #70  
Old 06-27-2016, 10:05 PM
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Kind of wish I hadn't of put the Volquartsen trigger assy in the Mark III before that the Victory was my favorite. Maybe this fall they will have one for the Victory plus target grips. I keep checking my paint dots and the screw hasn't moved. 1435 rounds now. Hate to take it a part to clean it.
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  #71  
Old 06-29-2016, 10:44 PM
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I purchased a brand new S&W Victory from Gander Mountain, lubed it up a little, and shot a few dozen rounds through it before I tried to disassemble it and found the Allen screw to be torqued down so tight none of my hand tools could budge it. Before I broke a wrench, I took it back to Gander Mountain where their resident "gunsmith" ended up rounding out the edges out of frustration using a metric wrench!

I called S&W Customer Support and they were extremely fast in e-mailing me a FedEx Shipping Label and the RMA paperwork to fill out. An hour later it was on its way back to the S&W factory. A couple of weeks later it was returned via FedEx, and all at no charge to me.

I haven't had time to disassemble it, but I'll do so after we run some more rounds through it. If it's resistant again, I'll use my 3/8" air-hammer with Allen bit and "convince" it to rotate.
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  #72  
Old 06-30-2016, 01:09 AM
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I wonder if the frame/barrel gap has anything to do with it. This would take a few samples and a bunch of Plastigage to collect the data.
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  #73  
Old 06-30-2016, 02:48 AM
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Hello,
I just purchased my Victory model, and will have it this weekend.
I really do understand why there is so much trouble. Working in an industry where you use all types and sizes of threaded fasteners, you learn where the problems come from.
This particular problem exists because S&W Decided to use a #12-24 Low Head SHCS. (Socket Head Cap Screw).
This particular screw requires a smaller hex wrench than what would be used if it were the standard head height.
The Low head uses a 1/8 wrench. To give you an idea This wrench is normally used on a #6-32 SHCS. Note I did not say Low head.
To apply sufficient torque to the 12-24. with a much smaller wrench has many disadvantages, one is stripping out the hex. They don't put the hex detail in the head of the screw as deep, there is less total area to help break things loose. This was a horrible design purely due to the use of a Low head screw and an inadequate wrench to do the work with.
You can use a split washer, you can use a rubber O Ring, and it will work just fine. However going to a standard screw, with the 5/32 wrench will give you the desired results. Adequate tightening and no issues breaking it loose.
The 5/32 wrench is typically used on the 10-32 and 10-24 SHCS.
The # 12 screw is not commonly used, and the next size wrench is 3/16, which is what you would use on a 1/4-20 or 1/4-28 cap screw.

Anytime we use Flat head, or Low head, Or button head screws, the smaller wrench is used, Were not talking one size smaller, we are talking 2 sizes smaller. From 1/8 to 5/32 you have 9/64 right in between, which is used on the 8/32 SHCS. Many times we end up taking a center punch and driving the flat head out, or drill the head out.
These screws lock in place and stripping the hex out or twisting the wrench into a pretzel is common. So this Victory issue with the screw is really quite simple, Use the proper screw type with the proper wrench size.
I'm willing to bet there would be no problems here.
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  #74  
Old 06-30-2016, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbqncigars View Post
I wonder if the frame/barrel gap has anything to do with it. This would take a few samples and a bunch of Plastigage to collect the data.
This is also a good point, there should be no substantial gap, not more than .002-.005, it's the same with bedding a rifle barrel, the screw should just hold things together, and not cause any strain or put any pre load on any of the parts. Hopefully you will need nothing more than some red gage to see what is happening.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:03 AM
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Chalk up another SW22 owner with the overtight screw. I wish I would have checked the forum first when I was having problems. I guess I got lucky. I went to break the gun down to inspect and lube it before its first range trip. I tried the factory hex wrench then moved to one that was longer to get more torq on it. I need to inspect the screw head better, but I'm sure I rounded it off. I got lucky and got screw to break free, but I thought I snapped the hex wrench. Maybe I can get S&W to send me a new screw. I got a about 150 rds through it, but was having feed problems on the first few mags (I guess to be expected with a new firearm). I was using CCI std velocity ammo for the first 100, then switched to Aguila super extra for the last 50 and it ran very well.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:07 AM
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Welcome to the forum.

Good luck on the screw. I'm sure Smith&Wesson will send a new one.

With my Victory I've found that if I stay with .22lr's above 1150fps I have no problems.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:09 AM
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I have an April 2016, just bought it yesterday from Cabelas, and the barrel screw popped loose with what I consider normal breakaway torque. Haven't fired it yet so no idea if the screw will loosen up with firing.
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:26 PM
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Picked up my victory this weekend, only came with one wrench instead of the 2 needed, but I have so many. Found the screw tight for the short 1/8 wrench but broke it free, will use a long 1/8 wrench the rest of the way, will find out the thread pitch on Tuesday, but it's not 24 and it's not 32. It might even be metric. I do not believe the trigger is plastic, looking in the set screw hole for the trigger over travel, sure looks like metal to me. Very impressed with the simplicity, and was impressed with the amount of different ammo's it shot including the Silent which is far below the 1080 fps of the SV ammo.
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Old 07-03-2016, 02:05 PM
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BTW there is nothing Super about Aguila Super Extra. I ran chrono test on it Thursday with my Labradar as a friend had a box and his Beretta was stove piping a lot with it a sign of under power. I have ran 7 brands so far with my Victory and Volquartsen Barrel.

Norma TAC-22 HV 981, LV 918, AV 951, ES 68, SD 18

Remington Thunderbolts 1154, 1040, 1092, 115 35

Armscor 36gr HP 1184 1126 1155 59 18

CCI standard 1000 953 980 47 15

Eley Target 1022 981 1004 41 12

Federal Target Grade 1132 1072 1089 60 19

Aguila Super Extra 1101 1024 1068 77 29

I have 4 more kinds of 22LR target grade ordered to test.

I am shooting the TAC 22 in my Victory and Mark III Competition and like them good enough to buy 4,000 rounds and they are cheap besides.
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:39 PM
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I got my gun back from S&W. It was actually kind of comical. There was a brand new screw in it and it was barely hand tight. I guess with all the trouble I had, they decided to let me tighten it down myself. I don't know if it's actually a different screw, but it does seem like the wrench engages much deeper into the screw than the original did. I'm now able to torque it down adequately so that it won't come loose during shooting, and yet still be able to break it loose for take down.
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:44 AM
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UPDATE:
After using the 4" T-handle wrench to tighten it. Put 200 rounds of Federal Match through it last night no problem with the screw.
Did have 1 misfire with the Federal
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Old 07-17-2016, 04:58 PM
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Well it seems that this thread has quieted down. I guess not to many have had a problem with a loose screw.

I explained before mine was extremely tight when I first bought it and have hand tightened it since with a six inch long Allen wrench.

I put 200 rounds two or three times a week through it and have never had either the take down screw nor the barrel screw come loose yet.

It's a nice, accurate and fun gun to shoot.
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Old 08-03-2016, 11:58 PM
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My new SW22 Victory has been to the range once, and has perhaps 150 rounds through it. Nice shooter. Tried to take it apart today and the screw won't move at all. Build date is 04-07-16. I have now sheared two hex bits. Screw won't move, then the bit snaps. One was an impact bit, and the other was a hex mounted on a 3/8" drive socket. I can certainly clean the bore without taking it apart,
but I'm going to have to try heat or something else. I haven't tried the hex that came with it because I didn't want to break it too.
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Old 08-04-2016, 11:07 PM
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PLG I wouldn't want to put heat to it as that will expand the shank into the nut that is welded to the barrel making it tighter. It's not like your trying to take out a rusted manifold bolt. Because of the frame you can't put heat to the nut.

I would try a good quality hex wrench first. If that fails get it off to Smith&Wesson.
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Old 08-04-2016, 11:55 PM
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Mine works pretty good now; it is a Jan 2016 buy. One time though it would not release.

I put the barrel in a vice, surrounded by rags, and put the proper hex bit in the takedown screw. Then I got the longest handled crescent wrench I could find and used that to turn the screw.

Thank goodness for Archimedes.
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Old 08-05-2016, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benney View Post
PLG I wouldn't want to put heat to it as that will expand the shank into the nut that is welded to the barrel making it tighter. It's not like your trying to take out a rusted manifold bolt. Because of the frame you can't put heat to the nut.

I would try a good quality hex wrench first. If that fails get it off to Smith&Wesson.
The idea of putting heat to the screw isn't the same as taking off a rusty manifold. The reason for the heat is to break the bond of factory applied thread sealer, and is common practice for removing screws held in place with Lok-tite type products. In many cases, a soldering iron works great for this process. You aren't trying to get the screw red hot, just warm enough to break the sealant's bond.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:08 AM
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When I first field striped my Victory with the stock hes wrench it wouldn't budge, I used a longer wrench and it broke free. I cleaned and found a defect in the rifling so it's at S&W as we speak. Sucks brand new gun and already sent back to the factory.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
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The idea of putting heat to the screw isn't the same as taking off a rusty manifold. The reason for the heat is to break the bond of factory applied thread sealer, and is common practice for removing screws held in place with Lok-tite type products. In many cases, a soldering iron works great for this process. You aren't trying to get the screw red hot, just warm enough to break the sealant's bond.
True enough but I pictured someone with a micro-torch heating the devil out of it.

Mine never had any type of thread sealant on it. Just oil.
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Old 08-10-2016, 09:26 AM
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After shearing another hex tool, I called S&W and they sent me a shipping label, so I'll box it up and send it back. I tried to clean it with the barrel on it and my patches encounter a rough spot at mid barrel. I don't have a bore scope, so I can't see what is going on there. I may just need to do a more thorough cleaning, but I'll have the manufacturer check that too.

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Old 08-10-2016, 08:11 PM
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Default where can i get parts for the SW22 Victory

I normally buy a parts kit for new guns. I would like to get a few barrel screws, springs and pins. I also would like to get a spare threaded barrel. Can't find the parts for the ,22 Victory on Brownells or midway. Can't find anything on the S&W site. What do you do if you loose a screw while cleaning.
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Old 08-10-2016, 09:41 PM
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Everyone talks about the screw, but no one talks about the Allen wrench.
The one furnished by S&W is too soft and flexes. I used my Eklind heat treated Allen wrench, and it was stiff enough to get the job done. Add VC-3 vibration blocker on the thread, and all is good. No problems after thousands of rounds.
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Old 08-11-2016, 08:49 AM
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I normally buy a parts kit for new guns. I would like to get a few barrel screws, springs and pins. I also would like to get a spare threaded barrel. Can't find the parts for the ,22 Victory on Brownells or midway. Can't find anything on the S&W site. What do you do if you loose a screw while cleaning.
My Volquartsen SS fluted/ported barrel is threaded as you can unscrew the ported piece.
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkosiba View Post
Everyone talks about the screw, but no one talks about the Allen wrench.
The one furnished by S&W is too soft and flexes. I used my Eklind heat treated Allen wrench, and it was stiff enough to get the job done. Add VC-3 vibration blocker on the thread, and all is good. No problems after thousands of rounds.
Taking my wife's gun down was hard, impossible with the supplied Allen. Went down to the garage and got a good Allen and even that would not budge the screw. Got a 10'' crescent wrench and put that on the Allen. That finely got it to move. I see they call for 40 inch pounds of force, that screw must have been set to 40 foot pounds. Put it back together just by "feel" and so far (300 rounds) it has not loosened up!
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Old 08-11-2016, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NYlakesider View Post
Taking my wife's gun down was hard, impossible with the supplied Allen. Went down to the garage and got a good Allen and even that would not budge the screw. Got a 10'' crescent wrench and put that on the Allen. That finely got it to move. I see they call for 40 inch pounds of force, that screw must have been set to 40 foot pounds. Put it back together just by "feel" and so far (300 rounds) it has not loosened up!
1690 rounds since torqued to 40 inch pounds with Purple Loctite.
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Old 08-13-2016, 04:52 PM
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Angry Take-down screw

I just purchased the Victory and decided to clean it prior to shooting it. I have also snapped an allen wrench (ball type with a handle) and stripped out the head. I even tried an easy out with a vise grip and have had no luck. Very disappointed. I sent S&W an email and waiting for their response. Makes me wish I had bought Browning or Ruger.
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Old 08-13-2016, 07:57 PM
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Buy the Ruger at least you probably won't break the hammer that is required to take it a part. Well the head did come off mine. Taking my new Mark III Competition apart. You also need the hammer to put it back together. I have had many guns but this is the first one the manual told me to beat on it with a hammer.
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Old 08-14-2016, 11:40 AM
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I just purchased the Victory and decided to clean it prior to shooting it. I have also snapped an allen wrench (ball type with a handle) and stripped out the head. I even tried an easy out with a vise grip and have had no luck. Very disappointed. I sent S&W an email and waiting for their response. Makes me wish I had bought Browning or Ruger.
Ball type Allen wrenches were never made to remove or tighten socket head screws. They were designed so you could quickly remove them when you can't get on them straight. Loosen then use the ball.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:45 PM
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Got mine about two weeks ago. 061916 is the date. Even before firing the first time the take down screw was not that hard to undo. My first 500 rounds it loosened around 200 rounds or so. Tightened up and was good for the last 300 rounds. Second time out exact same thing out of 500 more rounds.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
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Penetrating oil typically won't do much for thread locking compound. Try heating it with a soldering iron. Heat will cause the thread lock compound to soften up.
Unless they recently changed something, there was no threadlocker on my screw.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:54 PM
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Myself I do not recommend any form of thread locker on the screw at all. Either torque it down to 40 inch lbs or use a No.61 O-ring. Thats all you need to do.
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