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  #1  
Old 06-11-2016, 01:48 PM
Gunnerman Gunnerman is offline
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Default S&W Victory takedown screw problem

I just bought a new S&W Victory. One of the things that attracted me to is was the ease of disassembly. Just remove one screw, you're done. Yeah, if you can get the screw out. I've already stripped the hex wrench that came with it and another of my own trying to loosen it. I clamped vice grips on yet another hex wrench and torqued it until the hex wrench snapped. At this point, the screw is so chewed up I'm afraid to continue. It will NOT loosen. What did they put that screw in with, an air wrench? Permanent thread locker? I know they want to get it tight, but it is SUPPOSED to come out. Unbelievable. I had to hunt far and wide to even find one of these, and now it looks like I won't even be able to fire a shot before it spends a couple of months at the factory. I had heard Smith and Wesson's quality had improved of late. Maybe not.

Last edited by Gunnerman; 06-11-2016 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 06-11-2016, 03:44 PM
Gregbenner Gregbenner is offline
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Wow, what a bummer! I have had mine out several times, have a different barrel as well, with no issues. Hopefully all will be fine when it gets fixed. Maybe heat would help?
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Old 06-11-2016, 05:03 PM
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Gunnerman you might just get a gun smith to remove it will cost you a little but you won't be waiting on the gun being shipped both ways and S&Ws time fixing it.
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Old 06-11-2016, 05:11 PM
wildbill222 wildbill222 is offline
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Hi Gunnerman...I had the same issue...no way will the factory allen remove that screw.. I call SW CS..They told me to apply heat and penetrating oil...It finally cracked loose. I put mine back at 35 inch pounds... What barrel do you have ?? Thanks
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Old 06-12-2016, 10:29 AM
Gunnerman Gunnerman is offline
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I have the standard, non threaded barrel. I'm going to soak it in penetrating oil and shoot the heck out of it today. See if that loosens it up.
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Old 06-12-2016, 10:46 AM
gman51 gman51 is offline
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I have to say this is one gun purchase I wish I had passed on.
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Old 06-12-2016, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerman View Post
I have the standard, non threaded barrel. I'm going to soak it in penetrating oil and shoot the heck out of it today. See if that loosens it up.
Penetrating oil typically won't do much for thread locking compound. Try heating it with a soldering iron. Heat will cause the thread lock compound to soften up.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:05 PM
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I purchased a victory at cabelas yesterday. Came home to clean it and the same thing happened. I've applied heat, penetrating oil and still it won't budge. I have broke three hex keys and now the screw is stripped out. Very dissapointing, but it will have to go back to Smith. On a good note. I've been shooting the heck out of it and it shoots incredibly.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:17 PM
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Until this all the complaints had been about the screw coming loose. Smith and Wesson must have overcompensated.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:17 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerman View Post
I just bought a new S&W Victory. One of the things that attracted me to is was the ease of disassembly. Just remove one screw, you're done. Yeah, if you can get the screw out. I've already stripped the hex wrench that came with it and another of my own trying to loosen it. I clamped vice grips on yet another hex wrench and torqued it until the hex wrench snapped. At this point, the screw is so chewed up I'm afraid to continue. It will NOT loosen. What did they put that screw in with, an air wrench? Permanent thread locker? I know they want to get it tight, but it is SUPPOSED to come out. Unbelievable. I had to hunt far and wide to even find one of these, and now it looks like I won't even be able to fire a shot before it spends a couple of months at the factory. I had heard Smith and Wesson's quality had improved of late. Maybe not.
Does anyone remember the spring loaded button disassembly on the 22A and 22S?

Perhaps someone at S&W could explain how this system is an improvement. This pistol is a badge-engineered 22A/22S. As soon as I saw the introductory video touting the simple, single screw disassembly, it killed it for me.

Now, we have seen posts of these guns "disassembling themselves" when the screw vibrates loose, followed by posts about users being completely unable to unscrew the disassembly screw.

Sorry, but some designer at S&W should be called on the carpet over this fiasco.

Send it back, get it fixed, sell it, and but a Ruger Mark III.
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  #11  
Old 06-12-2016, 02:27 PM
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Don't forget guys - righty tighty, lefty loosey.


Besides heat, use a "T" handled Allen wrench. It applies far superior control than an "L" shape does.
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Old 06-12-2016, 02:49 PM
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Yes, I know which way to turn a screw. I put 200 rounds through the gun. I soaked it overnight in WD-40. I heated it as hot as I'm comfortable doing. I've broken 2 allen wrenches. And yes, I have a T handle wrench. I've had to regrind the tip 3 times due to it rounding off. I've removed a lot of screws from guns over the years that were staked, or had red thread locker on them. I've NEVER had one like this. Reading threads, it appears S&W has gone from using a screw that comes out by itself, to one that won't come out....ever. Which kind of defeats one of the main selling points of the gun....easy takedown.
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
Does anyone remember the spring loaded button disassembly on the 22A and 22S?

Perhaps someone at S&W could explain how this system is an improvement. This pistol is a badge-engineered 22A/22S. As soon as I saw the introductory video touting the simple, single screw disassembly, it killed it for me.

Now, we have seen posts of these guns "disassembling themselves" when the screw vibrates loose, followed by posts about users being completely unable to unscrew the disassembly screw.

Sorry, but some designer at S&W should be called on the carpet over this fiasco.

Send it back, get it fixed, sell it, and but a Ruger Mark III.
Just got my Ruger Mark III Competition and must say it is the first firearm I have ever owned that you were required a hammer to field strip and put back to gather. I cringed beating on the brand new gun but did it just like Ruger's video showed and it works.

I no longer am having screw problem but they should have used a system like Beretta used on the U22 I have no problems with it. If it had the Victory's trigger it would be a darn good gun.
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom S. View Post
Don't forget guys - righty tighty, lefty loosey.


Besides heat, use a "T" handled Allen wrench. It applies far superior control than an "L" shape does.
Tom I am glad you said that as I been wanting to ever since the first post that the screw wouldn't come out. Just figured most guys knew that saying and I would just offend them. One must be carefulnot offend anyone these days.
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:32 PM
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No need to take it apart anyway I can run a bore snake through the barrel and clean most of the important areas with the gun assembled. As long as it is working that is all I require. S&W will probably never tell us what they did but I sure would like to know. I wonder if they ever tested these guns and had the same problem or did they figure it wasn't really a problem?
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:43 PM
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"L" shaped Allen wrenches are notoriously soft. I use the bits from Brownell's for the smaller screws and "T" handle wrenches from an old Craftsman set for the bigger ones. Never stripped out a screw or rounded a wrench. Good tools won't fail you.
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Old 06-12-2016, 05:02 PM
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A craftsman t-handle is what eventually stripped out the screw. Sparks flew.
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerman View Post
Yes, I know which way to turn a screw. I put 200 rounds through the gun. I soaked it overnight in WD-40. I heated it as hot as I'm comfortable doing. I've broken 2 allen wrenches. And yes, I have a T handle wrench. I've had to regrind the tip 3 times due to it rounding off. I've removed a lot of screws from guns over the years that were staked, or had red thread locker on them. I've NEVER had one like this. Reading threads, it appears S&W has gone from using a screw that comes out by itself, to one that won't come out....ever. Which kind of defeats one of the main selling points of the gun....easy takedown.
Quote:
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"L" shaped Allen wrenches are notoriously soft. I use the bits from Brownell's for the smaller screws and "T" handle wrenches from an old Craftsman set for the bigger ones. Never stripped out a screw or rounded a wrench. Good tools won't fail you.
If you've reground the end of the wrench three times, it wasn't hard enough to begin with, and the heat from grinding it has probably softened it even more.
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Old 06-12-2016, 06:48 PM
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You can also get some of the allen keys in a socket style set which may be the answer for the really tight ones. They usually are of a much stronger grade of steel to start with as well.
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Old 06-12-2016, 07:40 PM
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:03 PM
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Sorry, but you can't simply explain this away as poor tools. If you are going to sell a gun that requires a tool to take down, and you supply a tool SPECIFICALLY for doing that, then that tool should be able to do the job. If it had worked in my case I wouldn't even be turning to other tools. But it didn't. I clamped the supplied hex wrench in vice grips and torqued the screw until the hex wrench broke. Snapped. Again, if the manufacturer supplies a tool to do a specific job, it's not unreasonable to expect that tool to perform the intended job.
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:34 PM
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I will agree with you on that. Maybe they will start supplying impact wrenches. I like those they look like a gun.
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Old 06-12-2016, 10:06 PM
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It's time to go to the experts, contact S&W customer service and explain the problem. They should email or fax you a shipping label and you can ship it back to the factory. They should repair the problem and ship it back to you at their expense. I've found S&W to be very responsive when there's a problem with one of their products.
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnerman View Post
Sorry, but you can't simply explain this away as poor tools. If you are going to sell a gun that requires a tool to take down, and you supply a tool SPECIFICALLY for doing that, then that tool should be able to do the job. If it had worked in my case I wouldn't even be turning to other tools. But it didn't. I clamped the supplied hex wrench in vice grips and torqued the screw until the hex wrench broke. Snapped. Again, if the manufacturer supplies a tool to do a specific job, it's not unreasonable to expect that tool to perform the intended job.
Actually I can explain it exactly that way. I stopped using the old screw drivers S&W provided when I found out better ones by Brownells existed. Even though some of the factory screw drivers looked nice, they didn't fit all the screws correctly and a lot of S&W screw heads were mangled up with them. Same thing for lug wrenches on cars. I haven't used one of those worthless pieces of poo since the late 60's or early 70's. Manufacturers almost never supply a high quality tool for their product. You don't see cars shipped with a set of Snap-On tools, and it's for the same reason, cost.
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Old 06-13-2016, 06:22 PM
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This is why virtually all good mechanics buy such expensive tools to work in their trade. I have well over $50,000 tied up in my roll-a-round cabinet alone myself. All Snap On or Proto and Mac. Even some Gray but only brands with lifetime warranty in my kits or they are not there. 37 different socket sets alone in various lengths and sizes. Wrenchs up to 2" and you have to have 2 of each as well in Metic and Imperial to work here in Canada. Adds up very quickly I can tell you. Even my cabinet was well over $2300. new as well.
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:37 PM
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After 40 years as an industrial Millwright these are the only Hex and Torx wrenches I will buy. Small ones, no matter what make they are will break but these last with daily use better than any I have used.

Code:
http://www.bondhus.com/index.html

Now having said that I bought the SW22 Victory last week and had to put a 1/8 x6" pipe on the factory wrench to crack it loose. It was way to bloody tight for a screw of that size.
I actually thought I had broken the wrench but it had just snapped loose.

If you use the ball type of hex, remember it will not be as strong as the straight shank and you will break the ball off. Have fun getting that out of the socket if it binds.

The barrel screw wasn't tight at all. I cleaned the gun and tightened them back up with a 6" hex hand tight.

What I did notice though is the socket is not very tight on any of my Hex drives that I tried. IMO it could use a better quality socket head screw.

500 rounds and everything is still tight.
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Old 06-13-2016, 07:42 PM
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Contacted Smith and Wesson today. They suggested take it to a gunsmith. I was waiting for him to say send us the bill or something, I was really confused. I asked who pays and he said I do unless I want to send it back for 4-6 weeks for repairs. He was well aware of the over tightning issue. I live out in the country so it's gonna be a 100 mile round trip at least for any gunsmith trip. Not a very satisfied customer.
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Old 06-13-2016, 08:09 PM
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Nickanto these work well.

Code:
https://www.amazon.com/Tools-Multi-Spline-Extractor-25-Piece-53227/dp/B0002SRG66
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Old 06-13-2016, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
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Nickanto these work well.

Code:
https://www.amazon.com/Tools-Multi-Spline-Extractor-25-Piece-53227/dp/B0002SRG66
I think I can justify work buying me a set of these......
The screw will be shot if I get it out, right?
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Old 06-13-2016, 10:16 PM
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Yep the screw will be scrap.
Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.
I presume your in the US and not in Ontario as I would do it for you.
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Old 06-14-2016, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman51 View Post
I have to say this is one gun purchase I wish I had passed on.
... and one pistol purchase I plan to never make.

But it is a perfect engineering study in how absolute maximum simplicity of design in a firearm (i.e., one funky screw to take down) is not always the very best way to go.
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:39 AM
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Unhappy Same Problem - Loose Screw

My Victory is about 400 rounds old and I have the same problem.
After about 50-75 rounds I have to retighten. Contacted S&W and here is their reply:
"Dear Customer,

We apologize for this inconvenience. We will send you a new takedown screw. Your order number is xxx.

If you are still experiencing this issue with the new screw, we would recommend sending the pistol in for evaluation.

Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.

Maybe if all of us who have the problem email them they might get the message that there is a problem.

I also bought a "T" handle wrench (Model # JTH6E13) $4.99 from Home Depot - that works well.
)
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:51 AM
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My Victory had a loose screw twice in the first 100 rounds. I cleaned the screw and hole well put a drop of purple Loc Tite on the screw and screwed it in then back out to get the stuff on all threads then torqued to 40 inch pounds with my Fat Wrench. 1360 rounds now and it hasn't moved. I put a small mark on the screw head and one on the frame with white paint pen so I could see if it moved, it hasn't. Had the same problem with the screws holding the rail and used blue on them but only 14lbs torque. You also need to wait 24 hours for the Loc Tite to completely cure. Other posters have used other methods on this forum that has worked for them. I really don't know what S&W could do to fix this but I like the gun so much I could live with it even if it kept coming loose. With the Volquartsen barrel this gun will out shoot my new Mark III Competition using the same optics and bench rest on both guns.
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:34 AM
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I'm pretty sure S&W knows they have a problem with the takedown screw; they hired the HULK to tighten the screw at the factory. I've recently seen 3 reports of people breaking hex keys trying to remove the takedown screw the 1st time. I developed the "loose takedown screw" problem at about 1200 rounds. I had been diligent about cleaning, lubricating and torquing the screw to 40 in-lbs, but that stopped working. I now use a drop of Vibra-Tite VC-3 on the threads every 3rd or 4th time I break down the pistol for cleaning. Also reduced the torque to 30 in-lbs. I haven't had a problem since and have put 3000 rounds thru the Victory. So for me, it's a non-issue.
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:48 AM
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Bought a set up socket Allen's and officially stripped out the screw.
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Old 06-16-2016, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
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Bought a set up socket Allen's and officially stripped out the screw.
Are you talking the screw head or the threads? Did you apply heat first?
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:33 PM
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Bought one yesterday and you can add me to the list of owners with a stuck takedown screw. Even after heating the barrel and screw to the point that the nose of the reciever started to turn straw colored, I still rounded over two hex keys including a T handle that shot sparks when it died.

While, in theory, the screw on the victory should be more convenient than my MkII, this certainly hasn't been thd case. Then again, I can't understand why people have such an issue with stripping and assembling Ruger's pistols. People who say it's hard to do must have a difficult time tying their shoes as well.

On the positive side of things the Victory ate 250rds of Federal Automatch bulk ammo flawlessly, and easily shot one hole 10rd groups at 10 yards or so today.
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Old 06-19-2016, 10:21 AM
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I guess they got tired of people complaining about them coming loose.
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Old 06-19-2016, 11:53 AM
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I wonder if S&W got a hold of a batch of super glue instead of Locktite? There's no way these screws shouldn't come apart with a little heat and the proper wrench. As a full time die maker, part time mechanic and gunsmith with over 40 years experience, I've never heard of this many people having this much trouble with a darn screw. Apologies to those I slighted for not using the proper tools or techniques. S&W obviously has done something wrong to fix a problem that simple lite strength Locktite would have taken care of.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:00 PM
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After reading this I have no problem that all I have to do is retighten after 50 rounds or so.
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Old 06-19-2016, 12:11 PM
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Hey maybe we should use a screw head that sticks out with a hole through it and we could safety wire it like we did on aircraft in the Navy.
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Old 06-19-2016, 01:30 PM
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Yes, S&W, screwed up (pun), but there is a way to break that screw loose the first time with one try. Use what is commonly sold as a "impact screwdriver". It is a tool that takes a 3/8" drive socket. When hit on its end with a hammer it puts a torque force into the socket head screw either to loosen or to tighten. Purchase the very best quality allen wrench drive socket you can find that fits that screw socket properly. Then prepare a "V" bed of plastic or lead for the handgun's barrel to lay in securely with the butt upwards. Then heat the socket head screw with a soldering iron until too hot to touch. Then place the allen drive socket in the screw held by the impact driver. Make sure it is set to 'unscrew' and not screw in tighter. Make sure you are holding the impact driver perfectly in alignment with the socket head screw. Take up all the slack in the driver system with your support hand. Then hit the impact driver with a hammer with a fair rap. If it did not break loose, hit it again with a little harder rap. If it did not break loose, reheat, and hit it again.

The handgun must be bedded securely on a firm surface with no 'give'. You might want the help of another person to hold the grip of the handgun during this effort. The bedding "V" can be made of lead, hardwood, delrin, etc., but nothing that is harder than the steel of the barrel.........

After a successful removal, get a new screw from S&W. Torque it back in with a "T" handle allen wrench. .......

IMHO, the SW Victory 22LR is an outstanding handgun with out of the box accuracy better than 99% of us can hold. I think that when the users have gotten past this 'barrel retaining socket head screw ' removal problem, they will find this handgun becoming their favorite handgun.

I really, no really, like mine. ............
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:24 PM
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Other than it being bloody tight when I first took it down to clean I have not had it come loose at all.

Barrel screw was not tight on first take down and I tighten it up by hand and so far it is still tight.

I put 300 rounds through it today and it still snaps loose when I undo it.
In total about 700 rounds with no issues.
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Old 06-19-2016, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
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Bought a set up socket Allen's and officially stripped out the screw.
Since you said the socket head was stripped I am presuming you stripped out the treads.

I am thinking that this screw maybe galling.

I hope not as this will most likely ruin the threads on the barrel insert.
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Old 06-19-2016, 03:16 PM
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Ball end wrenches snap off, they are made to get at things at angles, Not meant to torque down or tighten.
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Old 06-19-2016, 05:03 PM
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Yikes. I must have lucked out. I bought mine in May (can't determine build date) and have no issues after at least 1000 rounds. Removed easily and never budges. Just doesn't seem to make sense that they can't nail this down. Is it dangerous for us to start logging serial numbers here of problem/no problem pieces? This video says a split lock washer does the trick with an occasional cleaning of screw and threads with rubbing alcohol.


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Old 06-19-2016, 10:49 PM
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Yikes. I must have lucked out. I bought mine in May (can't determine build date) and have no issues after at least 1000 rounds. Removed easily and never budges. Just doesn't seem to make sense that they can't nail this down. Is it dangerous for us to start logging serial numbers here of problem/no problem pieces? This video says a split lock washer does the trick with an occasional cleaning of screw and threads with rubbing alcohol.
The build date is on the box label. I bought mine in January and the date code on the label is 011216 (January 12, 2016). You don't need to mess with lock washers; just put a little Vibra-Tite VC-3 on the threads every 3rd or 4th time you break down the Victory for cleaning.
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
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The build date is on the box label. I bought mine in January and the date code on the label is 011216 (January 12, 2016). You don't need to mess with lock washers; just put a little Vibra-Tite VC-3 on the threads every 3rd or 4th time you break down the Victory for cleaning.
Thanks. My build date is 020216. I'm not having the problem.... yet but I found a member on another sight that is sending them out for free upon request as he bought a bunch. I'd rather use this if it works rather then cleaning the VC-3 off now and again.
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:10 AM
ppodpearson ppodpearson is offline
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010516 build on mine, right after New Years. No problems. Dave
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Old 06-20-2016, 12:20 PM
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031516 build date on my threaded barrel model & no problems.
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