I honestly don't know how many rounds I have run through my M457. I know it has never hiccuped in all the years I've owned it. I know they're fairly old, but I also believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" I'm just wondering how to tell when it's time to swap the recoil springs out? Is there anything specific to look for?

Thanks!

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Get off my lawn!

I'm pretty sure any spring is going to weaken with age and use. Since the cost of replacing the recoil spring is usually fairly inexpensive, why not go ahead and get a new one. Or at least keep a new one as a spare.

Happened with my Walther P99 years ago, and I was getting failure of the next round to chamber fully.

With my CZ 75, I noticed cases would eject further than usual.

That's exactly what I'm doing. I just don't want to throw out something that doesn't need replacing yet. Daggum shipping from Brownell's is more than the springs!! (7.43 for springs vs 7.95 for shipping!)

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Get off my lawn!

The recommendation by several of the factory trained 3rd Gen armorers who participate here is 5,000 rounds. I think they also say "or five years", but I'm not 100% sure of that.

Replacement is more important for alloy framed guns like the 457 because a weak spring can lead to frame damage. Since S&W doesn't have any replacement frames, they can't repair the guns.

$16.00 is very cheap insurance for a really reliable and accurate pistol.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Like GaryS said, cheap insurance. I change the springs in my 45 compacts every 3 years or 3k rounds whichever comes first.

The full size get the 5 year /5 thousand treatment. Nice pistol the 457. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Just ordered new recoil springs [ inner & outer ] from Smith & Wesson. I Have a 4013TSW. They are sending them for free. Gotta love it.

Remember also that adhering to a proper and reasonable service interval not only insures proper function, even under harsh conditions, but also protects the internal parts from undo wear and tear.

Correct, OEM designed spring tensions hold the internal parts in the proper position, and, along with proper cleaning and lubrication, help insure their correct interaction, thereby reducing battering and premature failure.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Not sure how much or how often you order from Brownells, but if it's "enough" then you should look into their "Edge" program. $50 a year and I get free shipping, no matter the order size or how often. I've literally remembered I needed a spring, clicked it and hit send on the order..free shipping every time. I must say, it's likely a good financial decision for them, if many are like me because I order more and more often than I used to. Heck, just yesterday I ordered a 3913 recoil spring and saw another suppressor mount that I didn't even know I "needed", so another order is inbound.

I'm trying to remember to make a call to the factory my first effort to obtain parts like springs, followers, and magazine baseplates.

They seem to get periodic orders of most of these items, so you may have to wait a bit.

More than once, they've shipped me replacement base plates at no charge. It seems to depend on which CS rep you get on the phone.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

There like the shocks on your car, they wear out so slowly you sometimes don't really know there worn out until you change them, and all of a sudden, you think your shooting a 22 instead of your 9mm.
It really depends on what type of ammo you are shooting and how fast you shoot. Lightweight bullets slow fired will be easier on the spring then 147 or +p fired like Jerry Miculek.

As a rule, I will replace then spring on a used pistol right when I get it, and then again at 5K. Since I do not shoot soft ball target ammo (Fire military grade ball and or self defense, but not +P) I usually order a wolf spring and 1 pound higher then stock. I have never had a problem doing this and it is far easier on the slide and frame.

If isn't broken, don't fix it! Replace the springs when you start to have a problems. My M1911 mfg. in 1918, which I've had for over 50 years still has its original springs in it and it functions just fine.

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Bill

Of course if the problem is a non repairable crack in the frame, that's probably not a good approach.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Gary, you beat me to it.

I believe there are basically two types of people,....those who change the springs too often and those who never change the springs,.....much like oil changes in a car. I've never understood why someone would drain perfectly clean 3000 mile oil out of a car on a regular basis. I'm more of a twice-a-year guy myself and don't even think about it until I see 7000 miles on the odometer(I can read a manual).

Springs are the same. But since I don't have an odometer on any of my guns and I can't count well enough to keep track any other way, I just make sure I always have spare springs available. I occasionally check the old spring against a new spring and if the old one still looks good it goes back in.

Well, as an ASE Mastertech, let me tell you why you still need to change your oil every 3000 mile or three months.
First off, while today's oils are far better then they were say 25 years ago, it's still made from dead dinosaurs. Heating and cooling cycles long with combustion gas's and unbrunt fuel will delude these additives and cause a break down of the oil. I drive 35 miles a day, and I track my mileage, after 3500 miles, I lose 2 mile to the gallon, do a oil change, the mileage goes right back up.
So then why do the manufactures say 5 or 7K? Well they are trying to show that their cars have a lower Dollars per mile ownership cost. Consumer reports started doing this cost comparison, and ever since then they have come up with some really strange things, like a 7k oil change, but only replace the filter ever 14K. Dumb.
Look at your book again, this time look at the REAL maintenance schedule, it's the one call server.
There you will find they really want oil changes every 3-3.5K
How do you know if where you live is a server area?
Follow the guide...
Do you have days hotter then 87*?
Colder then 32*
Hills to climb?
Does it rain more then 5 days a year?
Snow?
Dust or sand?
If you have answer yes to any of these, then you live in a server area, and should use the server schedule.

And to avoid excessive wear and or frame failure. you should replace the 7 dollar spring regularly .

And Jeffeytune has very nicely illustrated why I change out the compact 45 springs at 3K rather than 5K. HEAT. Heat affects the springs. Shoot a lot? Hot most of the year where you are?

Then change out a relatively cheap set of recoil springs or risk increased wear on a gun that the current company calling itself s&w doesnt make or support anymore. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I don't have experience with OP's type pistol. I'm a 1911 guy.

I can say that in 1980 I bought several recoil springs 'just in case'.

36 years later, I'm still carrying them around in my range bag.

I'm big on not fixing stuff that isn't broken.

HEAT,.....seriously? No disrespect intended, but there's simply no way you can generate enough heat in a limited capacity semi-auto pistol to affect the springs. I've got a buddy who runs a Glock 18 as a rental at machinegun shoots and it has seen tens of thousands of rounds down the tube(almost all of which were 33rd mag dumps)and it's still running the original springs and plastic guide rod. I've watched guys rent 4 or 5 mags for that gun and run them as fast as it can be reloaded,........no problems. That'll get it hot but we've gotten it hotter.

I can't say for sure how many rounds went through in how short a time, but I distinctly remember seeing smoke pouring out from beneath the slide once at a private shoot where everyone just blasted with whatever was on the bench. That must have been at least a couple of hundred rounds. It was smoking enough that someone donned the welding gloves to strip it and see where the smoke was coming from,........just lube. Still running the same springs, but I think Roger quit packing more than four 33rd magazines with the gun after that. Now it can't be fired more than 132rds before taking a break to reload. Gotta treat these things gently.

Okay so I called Glock customer service, here is what they told me.
For law enforcement, replace the recoil spring every 3500-5000 rounds.
He also said that they have 10s of thousands of rounds through there pistols with the same recoil spring and you can keep shooting it until you have a problem like malfunctions. But it is better to use the law enforcement guideline.

I just don't get this whole discussion here, I mean were talking about a part that cost less then a box of cheap ammo, and some here are wining like you having to buy the pistol again.

Replace your springs, replace them often, and they will outlive your grandchildren.
Don't, and they won't, it really is just that simple.

Yep seriously!
My ol buddy Eric melting one DOWN!

Thought I would give you a heads up on what happens when you are running a dead recoil spring.
Was on the range with my son and he was running a nice very clean FEG Browning Highpower clone. I was running my real MK III HP and we were shooting NATO rounds. Suddenly noticed his FEG was not going back into battery right so we pulled the slide. Had a dead spring and the NATO hot rounds were pounding the rails so hard it was flattening the edge out as the slide slammed back causing the slide to bind. Took some work and a new spring to get it back right and he was lucky it didn't break the slide or crack the frame.
Recoil springs are dirt cheap and having a fresh spring can make a world of difference in how your pistol reacts to recoil. If i buy a used pistol I ALWAYS order a new recoil spring ASAP no exceptions. IMO it's a no brainier that can save a pistol!!

I have some spare parts too, just in case. Recoil springs and extractors are the two biggies.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

My question would be: was the pistol inspected & cleaned after each shooting session? I have a real problem with the notion than a recoil spring goes from performing correctly to total failure in just a few shots. I was also under the impression that NATO spec, 9mm ammo is considerably hotter than SAAMI spec. 9mm because it is also meant to be used in sub-guns. I'm a firm believer in keeping an eye on thing and performing maintenance as necessary. That said, I'm not in favor of changing things just for the sake of doing so even if the repair part is relatively inexpensive. For those who change recoil springs based on the length of a new spring compared to a spring currently in their gun, consider this. After a brand new spring in placed in a gun and a box or two of ammo is fired, the spring will take a set and be considerably shorter than when new. Comparing a used spring, even if relately new to a new spring which has never been installed tells you little to nothing. The only real way to know if a spring requires changing is to use a spring weight tester, Unfortunately, an inexpensive tester has never been devoloped and marketed to my knowledge.

IMO, it boils down to this. If you're the type of shooter who actually breaks down and cleans a gun only after around 500-700 rounds "whether it needs it or not", probably changing recoil springs after about 4,000-5,000 round is a good course of action. If, on the other hand, you breakdown, clean and inspect your gun(s) after every two-three boxes of ammo, replacing the recoil spring on a "needs to be replaced due to wear" basis probably makes more sense.

Bruce

P.S. With regard to the frequency of auto oil changes I cannot speak to the effects on an car's fuel mileage. That said, a few years back Consumer Reports did a study on the virtues of changing oil every 3K miles vs every 7k miles. They used fleets of NYC taxis and tore down engines before and after the fact in order to measure the amount of engine wear. They found that there was no statistical difference in engine wear when going 3k miles between changes and stretching things out to the manufacturer's recommended 7k. In view of the fact that Consumer Reports receives no financial incentives from any of the corporations involved, the notion that the manufacturer's recommend 7k miles in order to lower the calculated yearly maintenance cost of their vehicles seems a bit far fetched. Compare that to the situation of the replacement recomendations of Wolff Springs??

A NYC Taxi, basically an engine that is never shut off.
How does that compare to your car, do you run it 24/7?
If the engine does not go through the heat soak/cold soak the moisture does not get into the oil and it does not have the thermal breakdown.
Most people drive very short distances at a pop, less then 5 miles at a time. The oil needs to get over 212F* to boil the moisture out of it, and every time you shout a warn engine as it cools it brings more water in.
You simple can not compare a cop car or taxi to the reality of how normal family cars are driven.

This is true in that the engine runs constantly during a shift. However, not every vehicle in the fleet runs 24/7.

We'll just let your assertion that most family cars are driven by the little old lady from Pasadena stand as being highly debateable. I will concede however that the cars most likely to be seen in a service bay are those driven in the manner you describe. Whether they constitute a typical service condition is doubtful IMV.

On to the notion that taxis represent easy duty for an automobile engine, I would disagree. While the engine runs constantly, the fact that most useage is in an urban driving scenario, the engine is constantly changing RPM as opposed to an engine which runs constantly in a highway driving scenario where RPM's are relatively constant. I therefore believe that CR's test environment is pretty valid. Finally, even in winter, it doesn't take 20 minutes of driving to bring the engine and it's fluids up to temp. In summer,...................

If, as you say, the average car owner takes two 5 mile trips twice a day, six days a week for 52 weeks-that equals 6,240 miles a year. In view that the average driver records around 15,000 miles a year, the math kind of blows a large hole in that theory IMO.

Bruce

27 posts and counting.

Change the spring, don't change the spring, it's your gun.
If you choose not to change the spring don't expect Smith to conjure up a new frame if yours cracks.

It's really that simple.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Using that logical line of reasoning, I would expect that not shooting the gun is the safest course of action. However, if we exit the Twilight Zone for the real world, there are other reasonable, well thought out choices.

Then again, anything that can happen will happen.

And if your mother was a man, she'd be your father. Everybody can stand around and say "what if" forever. There was a time when changing springs was done was done on a very limited basis in order to fine tune an individual gun to an individual load. However, it has now become the modification du jour because anybody, regardless of their level of expertise can do it and the component itself is very inexpensive. I am constantly amazed at the level of incompetence the manufacturers, engineers and designers in the gun world as a whole exhibit when specifying spring sets for their respective guns. This especially applies to 10mm auto pistols. It's to the point that when two 10mm shooters start a conversation about their weapons, the first thing out of their mouth is what weight aftermarket springs they are running.

Anyway, such is currently life or so it seems.

Bruce

Well, getting this thread back to where I started it... ...I received the new springs and measured them vs. the ones in the pistol and found the outer to be 1-1.5 coils shorter in the old one. I figured they'd compressed enough to replace.

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Get off my lawn!

Agree, now that were finished measuring our units, lets go back to where it started......

I toss a new spring in most of mine that I buy used as a reference. Not always, as I did have failures in one gun until I swapped the recoil spring. Maybe that's why I bought it so cheap. Now, I just don't know when I'm buying a gun from someone who doesn't replace the recoil springs or keep good maintenance.

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

This thread convinced me to order new recoil springs for my 1076 and 4516. Got them from Numrich with a schematic, shipped for $12.69 for everything. Pretty cheap if you ask me. Thanks for the reminder fellows.

No, the choices expressed here are either change them on a regular basis, or shoot it until something breaks. Note the people that mention their ancient, all steel, single action pistols that have never needed a spring change.

Even those guns are valuable enough to do some preventative maintenance on, even if they are only shot once a year or so.

A gun carried for personal defense, competition shooting, or even as part of employment, definitely needs regular maintenance.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Actually, that's not what I and a few others said. There is a difference between changing thing whether they need it or not and doing maintenance as required. As required is not equal to in event of a catastrophic parts failure. I know that for some that may a difficult concept to differentiate. So, another thread, we'll possibly discuss reading comprehension. In the O.P.'s specific case, we're not talking about a duty, competition or SD weapon either. But anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Bruce

Actually Bruce, the phrase, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' means exactly what Gary is talking about, and it is obviously what he's responding to. See post #13. Funny you mentioned reading comprehension, though...

Actually the above phrase is a common and widely used cliche which essentially means don't fix what doesn't need to be fixed. Sort of like "it's all over but the shouting" or "the cat's in the bag and the bag's in the river". Again, most folks can differentiate between these and statements which need to be taken literally. Then again, there are those who cannot.

Anyway, I'm about done here because there are folks who will want to debate what the meaning of the word "is" is.

Bruce

I think that resorting to gratuitous insults is a pretty good indication you've lost the debate on the merits. I'll give your posts the consideration which they deserve.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Longhorn, at the risk of falling into the cycle of confusion that seems to be developing in the previous 35+ posts, to answer your question, you can look at it in a few ways:

1. since it is your pistol and you are familiar with its use and maintenance, change when you see some degradation in performance (failures).

2. Better still, replace at milestones of use or age (preventive maintenance).

3. If it was a used purchase, replace before putting into service and start off at a known point of reference.

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Tony

I guess.

B.

39 post and still going.....amazing.

I just want to throw this out here for your consideration...
I just acquired a very nice 4006 with the adjustable sites.
While that day I took it to the range and shot 50 round through it with not issues other then finding the rear site base was lose, I still went to Midway and ordered a new recoil spring, as in the cleaning I saw the spring has a bit of waviness to it, not bad but if you rolled it on a table it is noticeable. So anywho, I looked it up plenty in stock, and the cost 1.99 for a S&W replacement spring.

Let me say this again real slow..One Dollar and ninety nine cents.
I ordered two because the shipping and handling was 4.95 (That is the minimum amount). So the two spring cost 3.98 and the shipping was 4.95......and I have a spare for later.

It just makes me laugh, that we have all this drama over 2.00.