I've been thinking about getting a LW Commander to supplement my Colt Gov't, which is one of my favorites and main carry guns. Since I already have and love the Colt, I've thought about getting a used XSE Commander or the newly release LW Commander from Colt. However, I'm also a big SW fan and have heard nothing but good about the SW1911s, so I'm looking hard at them as well.

Obviously the E-Series, as current production, is the easiest to acquire, but the fish-scaly motif is a bit of a turnoff for me - it's got a horrible Innsmouth hybrid look

One of the things I love about the 1911 is the grip shape, esp. with the swell of the arched mainspring housing, so I don't know about the bobbed frame, but I want to try that out as it seems it would make the gun more concealable. That would lock me into the E-Series. But otherwise, unless there are issues with the earlier models of Scandium-frame SW1911 Commanders, I think I'd prefer an older one.

Anyway, while the differences between the original SW1911s and the E-Series are more apparent and have been well covered elsewhere, I'm wondering if there were any differences between the commander versions of the original "Billboard" SW1911Sc, the standard smaller logo SW1911Sc, and the SW1911PD. Are there any advantages or disadvantages to any one of the above, or should I just look for the best deal I can find regardless of which label it has?

Is the Small/New Roll Mark SW1911Sc Commander the only one that came in a Stainless/Silver finish? I've only seen the Commander ORM and 1911pd in black, and the E-Series in either Stainless/Black or all black.

Anything else I should know about or consider?
Thanks!

Cossack,

I am with you 100% - I do not like the fish scale looks.

I have had my Colt Commander bob-tailed and it feels like a round-butt revolver - I absolutely love it!

I had one of the 1911pd models. It was very well built and carried like a dream. It shot well, and never bobbled....I can not for the life of me understand why I sold it, but I did.

The recoil was a bit more intense than the steel commanders, but not unreasonable.

Good luck in your search.

__________________
On the Oak Savannah

I bought the two-tone E-Series for three reasons - it comes with night sights, I liked the idea of the bobbed grip frame and I found it attractive. The "fish scale" look didn't turn me off because it's different from what we usually see on 1911s.

I didn't give a lot of concern to its long-term durability because I don't plan to shoot it a lot as I have two S&W Performance Center 1911s in .38 Super and .45 ACP for that. I've owned the Sc for about five years and can honestly state that less than a box of shells have been through it.

As far as offering first-hand ownership experience with the guns you listed, I cannot do that. I hope you find some folks who can.

Ed

Cossack,

That was quite a mouthful. Not sure what the question was in there...

I've owned and shot the original Billboard 1911SC, the later Small Print 1911SC, the later 1911PD, and both versions (all-black and bi-tone) of the E Series 1911SC. So I have some experience with them.

The original series of three guns have the swartz-style firing pin safety which is acutated through the grip-safety. This design has been somewhat controversial over the years, because the release of the firing pin safety is based on timing of the grip safety. Through normal wear, it is possible that the timing would go off, wherein the grip safety releases the sear and hammer prior to the firing pin safety being released. The end result is a misfire. Not so hot on a defensive pistol.

On one of the three original series pistols I owned, the timing went bad after less than 500 rounds. I returned it to S&W and it ran fine for another 1500 rounds until I sold it. The other two guns ran fine with no issues.

The guns themselves were reasonably accurate, quite durable, easy to carry, compact and accepted all standard 1911 parts. I sold them to buy other guns (like we all do). I see they are no longer offered.

The E-Series guns have many features that are hot right now including the bobtail style frame. The tritium sights are an excellent design with serrated rear sight face. They do NOT use the schwartz-style firing safety, or indeed any FP safety at all... they use a lightweight titanium firing pin which serves the purpose of a drop safety. The front strap of the grip frame is undercut and well-checkered.

Other features of the E-Series guns I didn't care for. The trigger is a unique dimension, made for the unique dimensions inside the frame, and standard 1911 triggers cannot be fitted... you are stuck with the long trigger than comes with it. Both guns shot significantly low, and others have noted the same tendency. The fishscale serrations look is an acquired taste that is slow to acquire. Despite being lightweight and having a bobtail, the guns are rather bulky for a concealed carry pistol, being fitted with fat wood grips and wing-like ambi thumb safety, tall sights, extended mag release, and big beavertail grip safety. Also, they were not particularly accurate for the money spent. The recoil spring is a guide rod system, which I also don't care for. I sold them for those reasons.

The E-Series 1911 TA is a very accurate pistol. I had both versions but sold them because the lack of trigger interchangeablity was annoying. I don't like long triggers. Also, the guns were not set up as I prefer a 1911 and so rather than spend more $$$ getting them how I wanted, I got rid of them.

IMHO, given the MSRP on the E-Series 1911SC guns, you are better off either spending a couple hundred extra for a Dan Wesson Guardian (in the case of the E Series), or a couple hundred less on a Ruger LW Commander (in the case of the original 1911PD). Yes I have both of these guns and they are excellent.

The S&W scandium 1911's are an outstanding carry gun. I literally wore out an old LW Commander, which actually didn't take very long. The frame eventually cracked on the Colt from continued use of duty ammo. Scandium, alloyed with the aluminum, keeps the frame from work hardening and subsequently cracking. Makes the pistol stand up much better to continued use. I worked for Smith during the intro of the Scandium line and saw many thousands of rounds fired through test guns. Great product, great company.

Long time lurker. Very active on opencarry.org under the same screen name.

Bought a performance shop 1911SC, dual tone, small roll mark commander shortly after they came out - serial #***3880. Has been my EDC since. It has never burped or hiccuped.

It shoots every bit as well and accurately as my Les Baur TR Special does.

IMHO - you could do a lot worse. Heartedly recommend it.

__________________
Yata hey

I own a 1911PD1 and have shot it very little. I bought it used, and one of the things that was different, someone had installed slim grips on it.
I love them! Did not know about them before, but have now put them on my 1911as well! Have a problem with initial cocking. Don't know if the shorter action required a stronger spring - but in my old age am having trouble cocking the action. No problem tho on my full size 1911!
I also don't like the long trigger, and not having rounded edges like on an A1 action--- it affects my grip!
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...R%20-%2003.jpg

I am strongly considering an S & W E Series 1911. I own, and really like, four MPs. Two 40 calibers and two 9mms. I have always wanted a MP 45 in DEB. Now I can't make up my mind on which one to buy.
So many guns and so little time and money!

__________________
NRA & TSRA
Texas CHL Holder

I have a Colt light weight commander and a S&W E series bobtail. The S&W to me is a better shooter than the Colt hands down. I personally like the fish scales and the 2 tone finish. I also have another Commander series 70 brushed nickel If I could have just one of them it would be the Smith

I have the S&W 1911 E sc Commander and just love it. I don't CCW it, but I am starting to develop a consideration to carry it. It's accurate, reliable and perfect for CCW; IMHO.
The attached target was from 100 or so rounds of regular 230 grain ball at 100' with a 2 hand hold, single weak hand and single strong hand.

Attached Images

	1911 SC.JPG (145.8 KB, 192 views)
	1911 SC a.JPG (110.8 KB, 165 views)
	IMG_0053.jpg (60.5 KB, 189 views)

Here's mine. Understand production was limited to 300-400? Any comments?

Attached Images

S&W 1911.jpg (25.7 KB, 216 views)

My understanding was that the Performance Shop turned out 500 of these.

Mine came with 2 eight round magazines that look very much like Wilson mags - same style follower.

Chased a few aound the country, trying to buy one. They were always sold. Finally found an FFL who had exacly what I wanted and for $795 + S&W was running a discount = buy any semi-auto, get $100 off. It really upset me to put out $845 - so much so that I had CrimsonTrace grips waiting for it.

__________________
Yata hey

Feel lucky to get one of these SW1911sc sku#150109 Camfour Exclusive
Not any out there for sale. Sweet roll marked commander 1911.

Attached Images

1911 camfour.jpg (21.0 KB, 54 views)

Thanks for the replies, everyone. They've been very helpful.

Sorry I got wordy back there - to distill it down to the essentials (and you addressed many of my queries already):

I'm considering LW Commanders. I don't like the looks of the E-Series, so I wouldn't buy one unless I fall in love with the bobtail and/or unless they have some great advantages over the older models. (you all address this point well - thanks!)

I guess my main unanswered question is this:
Are there any significant differences between 1)the old/large roll mark 1911Sc, 2) the small roll mark 1911sc, and 3) the 1911pd, or are all three essentially the same?

Is the small roll mark 1911sc the only S&W option that came in all stainless/silver?(not a big deal, but I'm curious).

Thanks for the tip on the Ruger LW Commander as well. I was aware of it, but hadn't looked closely at it yet.

You might want to consider this Ruger. Ruger® SR1911® * Centerfire Pistol Model 6702 Also available in two tone.

I was fortunate enough to get a Gunsite edition when they were still available - what a fantastic gun!

One other question about the "Pre-E" versions with the Swartz safety - can they take any other 1911 grip safety, or is the grip safety different as part of the safety mechanism?

If they can take other 1911 grip safeties, would switching to a traditional flat grip safety (without the big bump) be likely to make the fp safety less likely to disengage, making the firearm less reliable?

I'm used to the traditional Gov't model grip safety, and while I'm not unwilling to try out the popular bumpy kind, It's comforting to know it could be switched out.

I have the SW1911sc E-series and I really like it. However, when I first got it it was a jamming machine. I tried 10+ different loads and several different magazines, all with the same result, stove pipes and feeding issues. I put 400 rounds through it trying to break it in, which took quite a while with the constant malfunctions. So, I shipped it back to Smith and they did some tweaking. It is now flawless in operation with anything I feed it and any magazines that I use. I have about a thousand rounds through it now and it is accurate and reliable. It will enter my EDC rotation soon.


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Regarding the firing pin. Is this for the early model E series or their predicators? If for the E series is there a serial # end for this fireing pin? I am I little confused. Thanks

The S & W warranty service is great! I had some issues with my MP 9c so I sent it to them for repairs. The repairs didn't quite fix the problem (failure to feed last round in mag.) so I contact them again and sent it back. No charge either time and they sent me an extra magazine for my trouble.

__________________
NRA & TSRA
Texas CHL Holder

Their warranty service was fast, friendly and effective. I'm very happy with my experience. I'd recommend S&W to anyone.


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Ditto. I have a billboard SC and have replaced the OEM sights with night sights and replaced the trigger with a length that better suits my trigger finger. The flat aluminum MSH with cut checkering was chewing a stripe in my palm during range sessions. Replaced that with an Ed Brown serrated arched MSH that fit my hand better. I also replaced the full-length guide rod with an Ed Brown standard length rod.



One of my best pistols for getting a fast first shot dead-on target from the holster.

__________________
-Greg

Nice gun, Greg. I'm a big fan of the arched mainspring housing, myself.

Thanks for the feedback, all. This has been helpful.

So are are the 1911PD and the 1911Sc all pretty much the same, or are there any differences other than the name/roll marks (Other than the E-series - I understand how that's different)?

S&W uses a mechanical firing pin safety developed in house. Its only relation to a Swartz is it was based off the grip safety and not the trigger as in a Colt Series 80 mechanical firing pin safety. If you want to know if a pistol you are looking at has one then lock back the slide, turn it over and look for a plunger. Below a Colt slide with no mechanical firing pin safety. Then a Colt with the Series 80 mechanical firing pin safety. Next a Kimber with the Swartz derived firing pin safety based off the grip safety. Finally a S&W with the mechanical firing pin safety based off the the grip safety.



And the tops of the frames in the same order.

__________________
NRA Life Member

Thanks for the images and explanation, Dakota1911. Since the fp block is disengaged by the grip safety, I was wondering: is the grip safety itself unique to this design, or can one replace it with another standard 1911 grip safety? Would that affect the pistol's reliability?

Yesterday I finally made up my mind and ordered an S & W E-Series from Bud's. $793.00 out the door. It will be my Christmas gift to me. Can't wait for it to arrive!
It is the sexiest 1911 ever made and I love the fish scale on the slide carried over to the grip!

__________________
NRA & TSRA
Texas CHL Holder

Congrats, Dirtman. Tell me what you think once you get it and play with it. It sure seems like a lot of 1911 for the price.

trying to find the same pistol on buds for what you paid, link?

Wow! They went up on the price. I must have ordered at the right time (12/08/16) my cost was $793.00 credit card price. It is now $832.24 credit card price. I guess they are getting into the Christmas spirit!

This is the new link with new price; S&W SW1911 E-Series 8+1 45ACP 5" $808.00 SHIPS FREE

__________________
NRA & TSRA
Texas CHL Holder

Well, I just scored a SW1911PD w/ Crimson Trace on gunbroker. The price was lower than any other LW Commanders I've seen (It looks like I should be able to get it home from the FFL for under $750 total).

I wasn't looking for a laser system, but I figure I can try it out and if it isn't my cup of tea I can recover some of my money spent by selling it.

Here is a pic of my daily carry 1911SC. I went with custom thin grips.
I have probably 1500+ rounds through it. Only thing it doesn't like was some low power low recoil stuff one of buddies loaded. Otherwise, it eats everything. Most reliable 1911 I have ever had (even more so than my Les Baer and Ed Brown and especially more so that any of the Kimbers I have had).

Attached Images

IMG_0404.jpg (93.3 KB, 86 views)

I like your holster and mag. carrier. I went to Amazon to check out the different grips.There are many really nice grips there but the grips that came on my full sized E Series are hard to beat.

__________________
NRA & TSRA
Texas CHL Holder

Cannot help you with the S&W but I did make a leap of faith and bought one of the new Colt lightweight Commanders in .45 ACP. Oddly enough it would not feed correctly with the two eight round Colt mags that came with it (some things never change it seems). However with Wilson 47-D, McCormick and the new Remington R1 mags it works flawlessly with Hornady +P 230gr TAP FPD and 230gr ball ammo. Recoil with the new dual recoil spring seems to be a bit reduced and accuracy is good. Overall I like it but the $814.00 price I paid for it seems a bit steep.

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Stay safe people!

Who made the gun leather?

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-Greg

I got the leather from rdwarrenleather.com. I had another holster from him. His leather work is absolute top notch! I have attached a picture of another mag holder I had him make at the same time. I refer to it as my "bad side of town" mag holder.

I got the grips from Ron at rmhknives.com. He is also a true artisan and his work is gorgeous.

Attached Images

IMG_0405.jpg (90.4 KB, 91 views)

Nice. Thanks!

__________________
-Greg

Well as of today I'm the owner of a SW1911PD with CT grips. Got it home for all just under $750. The laser grips will take some getting used to, but I'm not ready to put them in the marketplace just yet - I'll give them a fair go first.

Congrats, Cossack


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