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Old 12-10-2016, 09:33 PM
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Default Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE)

[For update see post #14 below]
[For final update see post #23 below]


Took my 1066 out earlier today to my local indoor range with a box of PPU 10mm 170gr FMJ FP. I had taken it out last week with the PPU ammo, but did not post because I want to test the PPU ammo some more before doing so. The 1066 functioned perfectly, as it always has for me. I am pleased with it's performance.


Now, about the PPU ammo. Over the past couple of months I've seen a number of negative comments about PPU 10mm ammo on various sites on the web. Given my positive experiences with other PPU ammo, I was surprised to see them. According to the negatives comments, the PPU 10mm ammo is not accurate and the brass does not reload well at all. It seems, again, according to the comments, that the brass does not take sizing very well. The case fails to provide tension on the bullet after sizing. Well, since I had already purchased a few boxes of the ammo, I thought I would see for myself.


As you can see on the target below, the the ammo seems to be fairly accurate from a standing position in my 1066. In addition, several weeks ago I fired 50 rounds in my 1006. It was pretty accurate in that 10mm pistol, too. As for reloading, I collected, sized, expanded, primed and seated Hornady bullets in the PPU cases and found no problem whatsoever. Once again, FACT beats website fiction.


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Old 12-11-2016, 12:28 AM
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Thanks for that report. I have a box of the PPU 180gr JHP on my desk. Haven't tried them yet.
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Old 12-12-2016, 12:07 PM
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I never ever bought PPU factory, but have been sent some for pull-down documentations. The latest one is shown here; Priv Partizan Ammo PPU 170gr FPJ (Jan 2016) - 10mm-firearms.com

Originally one of our forum members suffered a casing blowout with PPU brass, and that started some questions of the integrity of their brass.
Also we found some PPU brass that was sold as reloads, and then they were found with the bullets set back deeper in the casing. As you know bullets seated deeper can raise chamber pressures, so this was interesting to say the least. I pulled them apart and studied what was happening, only to find the cases would not hold their resized dimension. That info can be view here; 10mm reloaders DO NOT USE PPU BRASS!!! - 10mm-firearms.com

It was possible the cases were of a bad batch of alloy or not properly annealed to start with.

With all of this said I have reloaded and shot PPU cases over the years, but paying attention to the details while loading them, has shown good results for my reuse.
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Old 12-12-2016, 12:29 PM
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Default PPU is just what the name says.....

Pee-eeew! I'll shoot it and the price is right but I've found it to be 'cheap' rather than 'inexpensive'. It seems quality control is lacking and if I can pin down any fault it's that they are inconsistent in several ways. I even had 30-06 that were too long to feed and chamber. Often loads vary shot to shot noticeably.
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Old 12-12-2016, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Dick View Post
Once again, FACT beats website fiction. ]
NO, If it is on the INTERNET, it MUST be TRUE

What do you think, that they let just ANYBODY have a Website on the Internet?

I have gone through about a case and a half of the 10MM Auto ammunition from PPU without any incidents or complaints. The brass is in loading bucket with other brands so I do not specifically know if I have loaded PPU brass or not, but I would guess that I have.
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Old 12-12-2016, 01:05 PM
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I can also attest to PPU 10mm performance. The factory 170 gr loads function reliably and have excellent accuracy albeit in a Glock 10mm.
I was impressed with what I saw.
Jim
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Old 12-12-2016, 01:05 PM
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I've never had issues with PPU. I shoot it in just about every caliber I have. I don't reload so I can't speak for that. Accuracy is something different for everyone. I can post my Saturday range trip targets and some may think it's accurate and others may think it's garbage based on the size of the hole in the target.

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Old 12-12-2016, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow1006 View Post
I never ever bought PPU factory, but have been sent some for pull-down documentations. The latest one is shown here; Priv Partizan Ammo PPU 170gr FPJ (Jan 2016) - 10mm-firearms.com

Originally one of our forum members suffered a casing blowout with PPU brass, and that started some questions of the integrity of their brass.
Also we found some PPU brass that was sold as reloads, and then they were found with the bullets set back deeper in the casing. As you know bullets seated deeper can raise chamber pressures, so this was interesting to say the least. I pulled them apart and studied what was happening, only to find the cases would not hold their resized dimension. That info can be view here; 10mm reloaders DO NOT USE PPU BRASS!!! - 10mm-firearms.com

It was possible the cases were of a bad batch of alloy or not properly annealed to start with.

With all of this said I have reloaded and shot PPU cases over the years, but paying attention to the details while loading them, has shown good results for my reuse.
What you referred me to were some of the postings I was referring to. I read these postings after I had bought a few boxes of the PPU 10mm. So, I shot them with care, checking spend cases for any signs of case or pressure problems. When I reloaded the cases I was careful to check each step in the process, this was made easier since I only use a single stage press. Now, maybe after a few firings they will exhibit some of the problems reported. After I've reloaded them a few time, I'll post again with results.


I noted that most of the negative postings were from mid-2014, more than two years ago. It may be that it was a problem with a particular batch or maybe PPU got the word and tightened their quality control. In any event, after reloading for over 50 years, I've always been very attentive to the condition of the brass I use for reloading.


By the way, a bad batch of brass can show up with the best of manufacturers. Back in 1999 or 2000, I had some blown primers with a batch of .243 Winchester ammunition shot in a Ruger Model 77. I stopped after a couple of rounds. I kept the spent brass, and unfired cartridges and sent them back to Federal Cartridge Company along with the lot number. They sent back a laboratory report showing there was a problem when the brass was extruded . . . oops, their bad. However, they also included a check for the retail price of a few boxes of ammo. It happens . . .
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Old 12-12-2016, 09:32 PM
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One thing I have found is that if you have to resize pistol ammunition then its has a problem. Rifle casings I expect to resize but never pistol brass. If it needs it I throw it out on the spot.
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Old 12-13-2016, 02:27 AM
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Bought quite a few boxes of the PPU 10MM at one time and am holding a once fired casing in my hand with a long crack in the brass as I type.

Saw several that cracked like this in the batch I got and would NOT recommend reloading this brass!!
This + they are the absolute slowest wimpiest 10mm loads I have ever run ( below normal .40 S&W velocities in fact!)and while they seemed consistent and fairly clean they shot to a different point of aim than a full power round like say Underwood.
See here as the PPU's were under 900FPS at 180 grain!
Contrast that with my normal defensive carry load here in the 180 grain Underwoods rolling in at over 1300 fps!

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Old 12-13-2016, 11:21 AM
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Denver Dick, glad you were able to see those postings from myself and others on the 10mmFirearms forum. (The poster that had the case blowout, must have dropped his photo account or moved things, so his pictures are no longer viewable)
I think that PPU brass is on the stiff side, less malleable due impart to the alloy and it being worked in the stampings to form it. Probably they skip one of the annealing steps forming the cups, to soften the alloy.

As seen with Ascension's picture (thanks for sharing it BTW), this sort of split shows brittle and less malleable alloy as it is fired, initial expansion causes it to tear rather than stretch. I have seen many Federal 10mm brass split on the initial firings as retrieved from the FBI range over the years.


Use of faster burning powders can also contribute to splitting brass as it will expanded faster than it can flow or stretch.

Having an understanding of what to look for, will go a long way with respect to safety if you are reloading any cartridges!
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascension View Post
Bought quite a few boxes of the PPU 10MM at one time and am holding a once fired casing in my hand with a long crack in the brass as I type.

Saw several that cracked like this in the batch I got and would NOT recommend reloading this brass!!
This + they are the absolute slowest wimpiest 10mm loads I have ever run ( below normal .40 S&W velocities in fact!)and while they seemed consistent and fairly clean they shot to a different point of aim than a full power round like say Underwood.
See here as the PPU's were under 900FPS at 180 grain!
10mm ammo test chronograph stats #6 Glock 20 - YouTube
Contrast that with my normal defensive carry load here in the 180 grain Underwoods rolling in at over 1300 fps!
10mm Underwood Ammo Gold Dot 180 gr Ammo Test - YouTube
I always assumed they were range ammo. I don't have a 10mm but my PPU 9 and 40 I wouldn't think of using for anything other than range

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Old 12-13-2016, 02:58 PM
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All I can do is report what I personally have experienced or witnessed. I have fired three boxes (150 rds) of PPU 10mm, lot #1602. I recovered about 90%+ of the spent cases. They were shot in my 1006 and 1066. Since I intended to reload the spent cases, I examined each of them as I placed them in plastic MTM boxes awaiting reloading. They all appeared fine, no evidence at all of any problem. I will be shooting a box of the PPU reloads (180gr Hornady FMJ FP, 7.0grs of Unique, WLP primers) this coming Saturday.

I will be examining the spent cases from the PPU reloads very carefully and report anything that looks out of the ordinary.

BTW, it appears that the videos posted above were uploaded to YouTube in 2010 and 2012, respectively. That's six and four years ago. Things can change over that period of time. Maybe PPU upped its game, or maybe not. It would be interesting to see more current chronograph comparisons.

Shadow 1006: Interesting that you mentioned 10mm Federal brass. When I got my S&W 10mm pistols in 2008, I bought a 1,000 rd case of Federal American Eagle 180gr FMJ ammo. I intended to fire six or so of the boxes to provide me with a source of once-fired brass. I collected the spent cases from those six boxes (no problems noted with the cases) and reloaded them (180gr Hornady FMJ FP, 7.0 or 7.2grs of Unique, WLP primers). Although I don't shoot my 10mm pistols that often, I have reloaded those cases multiple times and they're still going strong. Based on my personal experience, Federal 10mm brass seems to be pretty good.
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Old 12-18-2016, 03:44 PM
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UPDATE: Yesterday, I took my 1006 and 1066 out and fired 50rds (25rds in each) of my PPU reloads (180gr Hornady FMJ FP, 7.0grs of Unique and WLP primers). I recovered 43 of the 50 spent cases. I brought them home and carefully examined them (even with an 8x loupe). Everything looked good. I then resized/recapped them. They held the resizing with an internal diameter of .395 to .396. I proceeded to expand and reload load them with more of the Hornady bullets, the bullets were held tight.


I've been thinking and wonder if any of these reported cracks in the PPU cases upon initial firing have been in a S&W 10mm or have they all been in Glocks. Glocks are reported to have generous chambers that could contribute to the cracking. I'm not saying that's the reason or bashing Glocks (I own and shoot five of them myself, although not in 10mm), just wondering.
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Old 12-18-2016, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
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UPDATE: Yesterday, I took my 1006 and 1066 out and fired 50rds (25rds in each) of my PPU reloads (180gr Hornady FMJ FP, 7.0grs of Unique and WLP primers). I recovered 43 of the 50 spent cases. I brought them home and carefully examined them (even with an 8x loupe). Everything looked good. I then resized/recapped them. They held the resizing with an internal diameter of .395 to .396. I proceeded to expand and reload load them with more of the Hornady bullets, the bullets were held tight.


I've been thinking and wonder if any of these reported cracks in the PPU cases upon initial firing have been in a S&W 10mm or have they all been in Glocks. Glocks are reported to have generous chambers that could contribute to the cracking. I'm not saying that's the reason or bashing Glocks (I own and shoot five of them myself, although not in 10mm), just wondering.
Could have just been a bad lot too

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Old 12-18-2016, 09:30 PM
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Could have just been a bad lot too

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Absolutely true!
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:24 PM
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Glad everything worked out for you with your brass...

It is very possible that it could have been a weird batch with poor alloy.
I had not had any issues with ones I have loaded, other than those that were sent to me that had setback issues (they were sold to my friend as reman ammo). My intention was strictly to show what I found on his ammo as it was sold to him and the annealing was what helped to show what was needed to remedy that condition.

I enjoy handloading and I find myself helping others to do the same...
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Old 12-21-2016, 12:33 PM
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I've never had issues with PPU. I shoot it in just about every caliber I have. I don't reload so I can't speak for that. Accuracy is something different for everyone. I can post my Saturday range trip targets and some may think it's accurate and others may think it's garbage based on the size of the hole in the target.

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My experience with this brand mirrors Arik's, the PPU will do its job, if you do yours. Remember for a lot of us, shooting and accuracy vary due to circumstances.

I'm usually very accurate (for me) with my 9mm CZ 75. Last trip to the range, I got some stressful text messages from my boss about insurance benefits etc, about 30 minutes beforehand (it was my day off, and our HR was fiddling with some things)... I couldn't shoot worth a flip that day.

edited to add- the split cases would scare me, but I've always felt like PPU cases were strong (they seem thicker than, say, S&B). This is the first negative I've seen about the actual brass... I shoot a couple of calibers in just PPU (Argentine Mauser, etc), and never a problem.

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Old 12-26-2016, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
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Could have just been a bad lot too

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May well have been as I bought 500 rounds all at the same time. Out of the 500 or so rounds of this stuff I have fired we had that I found a total of 7 rounds that cracked to some extent in the brass we picked up and that round was the worst. Ran then in both my 1066 and Glock 29 on the range. They were weak but ran clean and seemed consistent. However that many split cases in once fired rounds were alarming. Never used them again because of this.
Would be cautious in reloading this brass because of what we saw.

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Old 12-26-2016, 11:25 PM
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My only complaint about PPU is that it doesn't even come close to the advertized velocity. It's "40S&W-Long."
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:57 AM
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My only complaint about PPU is that it doesn't even come close to the advertized velocity. It's "40S&W-Long."
It's probably tested out of a long(we) barrel

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Old 12-27-2016, 02:23 PM
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Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE) Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE) Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE) Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE) Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
It's probably tested out of a long(we) barrel

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

FWIW according to the PPU website, the test barrel was 150mm long. That converts to just shy of 6" (5 29/32").
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:16 PM
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Denver Dick Denver Dick is offline
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Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE) Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE) Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE) Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE) Range Report on 1066 & Comments on 10mm PPU Ammo (FINAL UPDATE)  
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This is a follow-up to my Post #14, above, which reads in part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Dick View Post
. . . I proceeded to expand and reload load them with more of the Hornady bullets, the bullets were held tight.

[FINAL UPDATE] I took these reloads out to the range this past Saturday. These were PPU 10mm cases that had been reloaded twice. That means they were fired three times, first as factory ammo, second as a reload, and then a third time as a reload (on Saturday). I checked the spent cases and while they did not show any splits or cracks, about a half dozen showed evidence of primer leakage. There were not "blown" primers, but they definitely show that gas was leaking around the primer. These case will not be reloaded again, I threw them out.


I have a few more boxes of PPU 10mm factory ammo and will continue to shoot it. However, while I'll continue to recover the spent cases to examine, I will not reload PPU cases anymore. I'll stick to reloading Federal, Starline and Winchester brass.


This did not surprise me all that much. Over the years, I have found that generally Europeans (especially Eastern Europeans) seem to make their ammo to fire one time safely, but don't really consider reloaders. JMHO
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Last edited by Denver Dick; 01-11-2017 at 07:20 PM.
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