"Do Not Use Excessive Upward Force When Inserting Magazine..."

[WNC Seabee]

I've always found the ability to slam home a magazine, and have the slide carry forward, in my 3rd Gen Autos to be a "feature" that is helpful for IDPA and other action shooting events (not to mention Self Defense). Since I bought all of my 3rd Gens used, I never had a manual before. Well, I scared one up today and here's what the manual has to say on the subject...

WARNING: DO NOT USE EXCESSIVE UPWARD FORCE WHEN INSERTING A LOADED MAGAZINE INTO THE PISTOL. EXCESSIVE UPWARD FORCE COULD CAUSE
THE SLIDE TO MOVE FORWARD, CHAMBERING A ROUND AND MAKING THE PISTOL READY TO FIRE.

So...what say you, Attractive Feature or Terrible Mistake?

[Bart 44]

I thought making the pistol ready fo fire was the idea........

Dennis.

[repawn]

First time it happened to me I was a bit surprised. Now I can recreate it when I want. Seems like a feature to me.

[perfectcircle1]

I thought it was done on purpose too.

Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2

[grif684]

Liability statement? I have always found it to be a handy feature myself.....

[Maximumbob54]

I think it's the point between slapping the mag home and slamming it home.

[murphydog]

A nice feature for the experienced, and a potential problem if you insert the loaded magazine with your finger on the trigger and it startles you when the slide goes forward, leading to an unintended round downrange.

[18DAI]

Hmmm........

I don't think I can seat a mag in a 39XX series without giving it a firm slap. I've been doing it for years with no problems.

Ooops.. Your talking about inserting a mag with the slide back. OK, I guess there is no reason to use "excessive" force with the slide back. I don't recall ever having a 3rd gen slide go forward on its own when a mag is inserted....enthusiastically.

My HK USP's do it. Not my Smiths. Regards 18DAI

[QXSOUP]

Lawyer speak.
Just like the stupid engraving on the pistols without the mag disconnect.

[catcus-jack]

It is not a feature it is a problem.All is well and good until it fails to pick up the round when the slide slams forward.I have seen and experienced this.It forces you to do a tap,rack,bang drill at a critical time.Seat the mag firmly and release the slide either with the slide stop or the slingshot method,which ever you are the most comfortable with.

[crofoot629]

It's just lawyer talk.
It doesn't harm your pistol and I always consider it a bonus when it happens.

I'm retired now, but often times noted with amusement that when qualifying that the little bit of stress caused me to slam magazines home hard enough to chamber a round much more often than target practicing or plinking. (my experience with Glocks, your mileage may very)

Emory

[BruceB]

I don't believe it is designed to do that, and I would have any 3rd gen I own FIXED if it was doing slam slide closures.

The only time I have ever experienced this was the first magazine load on a rental M&P 40 at the S&W range in Springfield, and i was not pleased. I cleared the pistol and put it down, and turned around to ask the range guy about it. He just shrugged and said "they do that" .

[jimmyj]

Slamming the magazine into battery on a semi-auto and flipping a revolver cylinder into battery one handed comes out of the movies and TV.

[crofoot629]

Originally Posted by jimmyj

Slamming the magazine into battery on a semi-auto and flipping a revolver cylinder into battery one handed comes out of the movies and TV.

You’re of course right about flipping a revolver cylinder shut, but wrong about seating magazines with authority.

Would you care to state your training, or source for your statement on magazines?

I'm a retired LEO, 6 times Thunder Ranch Grad, and IPSC shooter.

Emory

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Honest Men Fear Neither The Light Nor The Dark

[A10]

I've not had to slam a mag into a semiauto when the slide was back. They usually went in fairly easy. When the slide is forward and the mag is full, it may take a bit more force. I can understand the mechanics of the slide release being bumped or jiggled free if the butt of the gun is smacked hard. It wouln't upset me too much if the slide went forward. It oughta be pointed down range anyway, and yer finger oughta be well clear of the trigger guard. An improperly lightened trigger or poorly done honing of the sear could result in an AD in the situation. I haven't seen it happen, but it seems it could.....

[gc70]

Auto-forwarding it neither a feature or a problem; it is just a function of physics.

If auto-forwarding was a design feature, it would happen consistently whenever a magazine was inserted.

When I first read about auto-forwarding, I had never experienced it on a 3rd Generation S&W so I pulled one out of the safe to give it a try. Smartly inserting a magazine didn't have any result, so I kept banging the magazine in harder and harder until the slide did go forward on its own. By that time, my palm was sore, so I switched to a rubber mallet and whacked the bottom of the grip frame without a magazine - and the slide went forward.

When a pistol's frame is accelerated upward with enough force to overcome the slide's tension on the slide release lever, the slide release lever falls and the slide will go forward. I have noticed that heavier guns (which require more force to accelerate the frame) generally require more forceful magazine insertion to auto-forward than lighter guns.

The shape of the slide release slot in the slide and the weight of the recoil spring would also be factors. An interesting experiment would be to test auto-forwarding on a gun by first using a very light recoil spring and then using a very heavy recoil spring.

[catcus-jack]

IT IS A PROBLEM WHEN IT DOESN"T STRIP THE ROUND FROM THE MAG!!!!I have seen and had this happen.

[jimmyj]

Originally Posted by crofoot629

You’re of course right about flipping a revolver cylinder shut, but wrong about seating magazines with authority.

Would you care to state your training, or source for your statement on magazines?

I'm a retired LEO, 6 times Thunder Ranch Grad, and IPSC shooter.

Emory

------------------------------------------------------------------
Honest Men Fear Neither The Light Nor The Dark

Hi, Emory:
My limited training / experience:
1. 8 years Military (ordnance)
2. 45 years LEO
3. Graduate of FBI Training School
4. Firearms Instructor in Military and LEO.
Disability Retired 2007 (on duty incident)
Jimmy

[SMSgt]

My Glock 30 will do the same thing. It's caused by inertia on the slide stop (or lock if you prefer). It's no big deal, just CYA for the manufacturer.

[growr]

I LOVE that my M&P's will do that ....especially in a match!
Never had one NOT strip off a round

Randy

[crofoot629]

Originally Posted by jimmyj

Hi, Emory:
My limited training / experience:
1. 8 years Military (ordnance)
2. 45 years LEO
3. Graduate of FBI Training School
4. Firearms Instructor in Military and LEO.
Disability Retired 2007 (on duty incident)
Jimmy

Hey that’s great you are an expert.

Can you please enlighten the rest of us as to what damage is caused to a Glock, when the pistol is at slide lock, and a fresh magazine is loaded with authority causing the slide to follow a round forward?

I’ve never owned a S&W semi automatic. Maybe that’s why I don’t get it?

I have been to Glock amorous school, and I was always told to run my gun with authority. Same with 1911’s and AR’s. By that I mean inserting mags briskly. Am I supposed to gently seat the mag?

And I’ve never had a briskly inserted mag not pick up a round and chamber it when the slide follows forward. I'm sure it could happen, but it's a much more reliable way to run your pistol than to gently insert mags.

However I’ve seen many Malfs when shooters failed to insert their magazine all the way into the weapon, and then drop the slide on an empty.

Emory

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Honest Men Fear Neither The Light Nor The Dark

[jimmyj]

Originally Posted by crofoot629

Hey that’s great you are an expert.

Can you please enlighten the rest of us as to what damage is caused to a Glock, when the pistol is at slide lock, and a fresh magazine is loaded with authority causing the slide to follow a round forward?

I’ve never owned a S&W semi automatic. Maybe that’s why I don’t get it?

I have been to Glock amorous school, and I was always told to run my gun with authority. Same with 1911’s and AR’s. By that I mean inserting mags briskly. Am I supposed to gently seat the mag?

And I’ve never had a briskly inserted mag not pick up a round and chamber it when the slide follows forward. I'm sure it could happen, but it's a much more reliable way to run your pistol than to gently insert mags.

However I’ve seen many Malfs when shooters failed to insert their magazine all the way into the weapon, and then drop the slide on an empty.

Emory

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Honest Men Fear Neither The Light Nor The Dark

Hi:
Please don't consider me an "Expert" as I am not. However I think the difference of opinions is the "Wording". Inserting a magazine briskly or inserting positively is correct. "Slamming" a magazine can and will cause excessive wear/damage to the magazine release and magazine lips. I speak from real experience. I am sure that the shooters of speed/time matches have different experiences but possible their equipment is different than that of a average LEO or shooter. Glocks do "Break" hense armours keeping extra parts in inventory. I recently returned two Model 23s with cracked slides. (Don't let this out, but I am a Glock fan)
Jimmy

[Lost Lake]

Originally Posted by crofoot629

I have been to Glock amorous school, and I was always told to run my gun with authority.
Emory

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Honest Men Fear Neither The Light Nor The Dark

Well THAT explains why folks love their Glocks so much!!!

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by crofoot629

I have been to Glock amorous school, and I was always told to run my gun with authority.
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Honest Men Fear Neither The Light Nor The Dark

Where do I apply for that school?

[growr]

that school is for Glock lovers only........

Randy

[photoman]

Originally Posted by crofoot629

I'm a retired LEO, 6 times Thunder Ranch Grad, and IPSC shooter.

If you're a six time graduate of Thunder Ranch, then you have heard Clint say a million times, "I've never seen a stopwatch in a gunfight."

What's the hurry?

Slamming a mag so hard that the slide closes is not operating the pistol the way it was designed to be operated and there is the chance of ending up with an empty chamber.

With all that being said, it's your hide, shoot the way you see fit.

[A10]

I think Jimmy hit the nail on the head, we are talking semantics here. I don't much care for the term "slamming" the mag in, but positively inserting it to assure it is seated and the mag catch is engaged seems like the thing to do......

[Badkarma 1]

"Slamming" a mag in could peen the mag catch and possibly break the catch. Insert mag with off hand index finger running along the front of the mag, roll your palm up and push with the heel of your hand smartly, apply your preferred slide release style. Dale

[maxtherabbit]

I've always found that when a pistol starts auto-forwarding it's time to replace the recoil spring. Think of it as a maintenance warning indicator.

[VaRecon]

To protect them from the guy with his finger on the trigger, when he chambers a round and discharges it.
When used correctly, with the finger off the trigger, it is a good feature for the experienced shooter to quickly engage his round.

[grcoffman104]

After 20 years as a LEO Firearms Instructior,the only time I've seen this as an issue is inserting a full size Glock mag in one of the lesser capacity Glocks of the same caliber. Example a 17 mag in a 19. It should seat properly BUT have seen officers under stress push it a little too hard and it wants to slide up a little too high in the mag well. This can lead as other Glock armorors will attest to some difficulty in the mag release snapping back to secure the mag. And to clarify...with the slide locked back. Forward the upward motion will be limited and and seating the mag release should be as expected.

[jake1530]

Ok guys, thank you for your input. I’m glad I found this post as I just made a NEW post on the same subject after doing a search for the subject. As I read your posts, some say it’s good some say it’s bad. Can you please help out a very obsessive guy here? 1. Is it a function that is part of my M&P 40c’s design? 2. Do other gun manufactures do the same thing 3. Should I worry about this happening 4. Should I return my gun? Thanks in advance Guys.

[QXSOUP]

ALL of my Sigs and 3rd gen smiths will do it- all semi auto will do it. Don't jam the mag into the pistol with 2 tons of force. There is really no need to force a mag into a pistol, just push it in enough and let the mag catch do it's job.

[jake1530]

Thank you you just summed up my questions and gavr a guy with obsesive compulsive some relief. Knowing all semi autos do it makes me feel better. now if I can get the sluggish slide return issue esolved I'll LOVE my 40c.

[jim46ok]

Originally Posted by murphydog

A nice feature for the experienced, and a potential problem if you insert the loaded magazine with your finger on the trigger and it startles you when the slide goes forward, leading to an unintended round downrange.

That's why trigger control is critical. Makes sense.

[K Frame Keith]

Originally Posted by BruceB

I don't believe it is designed to do that, and I would have any 3rd gen I own FIXED if it was doing slam slide closures.

The only time I have ever experienced this was the first magazine load on a rental M&P 40 at the S&W range in Springfield, and i was not pleased. I cleared the pistol and put it down, and turned around to ask the range guy about it. He just shrugged and said "they do that" .

My agency issued the HK USP series for years and I was a HK trained armorer. All our USPs did this and the factory said it is normal. As long as the weapon is pointed down range, finger off the trigger, no problem. Never caused a problem for us, you just have be familiar with your weapon.

[9146gt]

The new M&P 2.0 have an additional detent in front of the slide release to keep this from happening.
Tom

[Jaymo]

A buddy of mine blew out my passenger window of my car, 20+ years ago, when he did this with my Chicom Tokarev.
Turns out, 7.62x25mm is a great round for shooting through car windows.

[Steve912]

Originally Posted by growr

that school is for Glock lovers only........

Randy

They teach you to pull the Glock's slide and spank
the mag's butt plate.

[mike from st pete]

I won't slap any of my pistols.