Hi Everyone.
This is my first post. I'm 32 years old, and I'll start by admitting that I am extremely new to firearms, and as a result, my knowledge on the topic is seriously lacking. I wasn't brought up around firearms, and I'm getting a late start, but I really enjoy shooting, so I figured there's no better time that now to get involved.

I'm in New York, and after an almost 2 year wait, I finally received my pistol permit. I had intentions to pick up a 9mm as my first purchase, but an opportunity to pick up a S&W Model 41 came across, and I really like the idea of having a target pistol, so I'm going to try and pick it up. The story goes that the gun belonged to a father of a friend, and he unfortunately passed away. They'd like to sell it to someone who they know will keep it and enjoy as much as their father did. They're willing to be fair with the price, but I'm not sure how much is fair to offer them, so that's why I'm here.

Here's some photos of the actual gun. I've seen it in person, and it looks to be in nice shape, but being new to all of this, I'm not positive of what exactly I should be looking for. This was used in competitions, and the family can not locate either the original handles, or any magazines.

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I know these guns are normally not cheap, but I'm wondering what you all think this would sell for, as well as what the missing handles and mags do the value. Bottom line, what's a fair price to offer? Thanks for entertaining my question, I'm looking forward to learning a lot while here!

-Mark

It's an all out Bullseye pistol with a Rink grip. It should have a size code stamped on the left side, like MRBO or LRBO. Smith&Wesson M41
Rink-Formgriffe > Bullseye

The grip is about $230 new with the Bullseye palm shelf. The pistol has a cut down barrel because the longer barrels had better performance than the shorter barrels from a vice for a while. Since a red dot sight was used the full barrel was cut down for balance as the long sight radius wasn't needed.

Because of the barrel and the putty on the grip, the previous owner was a serious competitor. I bet a Bullseye smith has been inside the pistol to clean up the trigger for competition and fix the common faults with the extractor and bolt block. If you take off the barrel and slide look to see if the pistolsmith marked his work.

If you look at forums like Targettalk and Bullseye-L a pistol like this will usually sell for $1000 to $1200.

With missing magazines, missing sights; and considering your knowledge base, I would walk away from this deal. Keep an eye out for a more complete package, the Model 41 is a great pistol!

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

You can buy magazines for right about $25 on eBay or at gun shows. A pair of stock grips will run right around $100. I would think the gun should still be worth $600 - $700 in it's current state.

I don't like altered guns.

If you can take it to a range and shoot about 100 rounds you'll get an inkling of it and you as a pair before taking ownership.

There's no shortage of target guns if you have the cash.

Competition shooters usually go through several gun purchases before settling on the one that they shoot the best.Three gun shooters spend more rectifying the previous mistakes.

I had a tuned Ruger Mark 1,Hammerli,Model 41 and High Standard 107

The High Standard was best for me so it was my rimfire choice with the Ruger Mk1 as my backup.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Welcome aboard, Mark!!! This gun is out of my field of expertise, so I'll defer to others on the forum. The good thing is that we have a New Yorker joining our ranks. We need all we can get up there!!

Most of us have a hard time believing that someone would have to get a permit to buy a gun in the first place, and have to wait 2 years to get it in the second. I'm glad that you are getting into guns, though, if more NYers were to do so, perhaps the laws might eventually change.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Welcome!

Wow,a 2 year wait to get a permit.Are you sure you're not in N.Y.C.

Don't rush into any gun purchase without getting good advice while you're in the learning stage.

Many gun ranges have pistol rentals so go to one and try as many different ones as you have time.

A 22lr is an excellent choice for your first

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Welcome to the forum. Stick around, you will learn tons here.

Unless the Md 41 you are looking at is a really nice price for you, I'd probably look elsewhere. I'd much prefer a 41 in all original condition. However if everyone is happy at around $500 then maybe.

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I'm gonna grow fins.

Thank you all for the input. I know there is a lot going on with this gun that makes it less than ideal for a first firearm purchase. The fact is, the price that this gun is being offered to me is a good deal under $500. After looking into 41s, I almost feel like if I didn't grab it up for that price, I'd eventually regret walking from it. The original owner was indeed a very serious competition shooter.

Will I even be able to utilize this gun and enjoy the time I spend shooting it given all the modifications that have taken place? Again, I appreciate all the info and advice, please keep it coming.

Welcome, this a good place to learn about firearms - particularly Smith & Wessons. The model 41 is an excellent target forearm. The model 41 has been around for a long time and that particular one has a lot of custom work. I would, as suggested. take it to the range and see if all the modifications work for you. Magazines are usually fairly simple to acquire so that is not a deal breaker. Assuming that the gun is in as good a condition as it looks, in my very humble and non-expert opinion any thing under $800 would be a good deal in Houston, but I suspect prices are higher in the Empire State. If you get back to looking at 9mm, I can recommend a S&W model 915, or model 910 or the 5900 series (ie Model 5903, Model 5906, etc.). You can PM people on this forum if you want to ask a specific person a question.

That is a very good price considering the grips and scope. These can be particular with the ammo you use. Find the threads on 41's and you'll learn a lot and there are lots of helpful people here. For that price I wouldn't pass. You will be buying more guns anyway and even good ammo for that is cheap. A good starting point would be CCI standard velocity,

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Mike, AmVets Member, Navy Vet

Usually the best ammo for this pistol is CCI-SV.. The man who built this pistol obviously loved it and had it built for real Competition purposes. I am sure it has all the tricks done to it the way it sits. If you can get it for a price which you can well afford then jump on it and many Thanks to the Family involved as well. Normally this model sells between $800.00 and $1200.00 I recommend buying it as it will be in great shooting shape I bet. Factory grips are easy to locate if you don't like the current ones. You have a excellent set of grips for trades. already on it.

Be advised some Bullseye shooters would have the magazine disconnect function disabled to get a better trigger action. Up until recently the NRA competition rules required the safety to be present but a recent interpretation of the rules no longer requires that safety to be present, so the magazine safety function may or may not work.

Knowing who did the modifications could add value and confidence in the pistol. Keefer, Dinan, Sams would be examples of Master Pistolsmiths.

The grips may not fit your hand. A way to check is to squeeze the grip for several minutes and then look at your hand to see if there are areas of your hand showing no contact. The putty is a sign of a competitor looking for the most points over aesthetics. Amateurs are afraid to modify their expensive wood grips.

Finally, some Bullseye shooters only clean their pistols when they start having alibis (misfires, jams). Many never clean the barrel except to scrub the chamber with a brass brush and pull a dry patch through the barrel.

A 1st gun should be one that you will enjoy shooting and want to do it every day.

The altered 41 may be at a good price and worth the asking price but as a 1st gun I would say look at other options like a new SR22 with a warranty that can be carried and fun at the range.There's one that's low cost and silencer ready.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Just another opinion, but with your lack of experience with pistols, I suggest that the one pictured is too used and customized for a newcomer (unless you have an experienced bullseye shooter to help you). At a minimum it needs a complete cleaning and go-thru before going to the range. Also as set up it is a bullseye gun and would not be fun for field and plinking.

Suggest you target a more standard early 41 in clean condition, but my experience is limited to only about 54 years dealing with 41s, 46s, and 52s and even less with Karts, Colt NMs, Victors, and a few Woodsmans.

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TOMBECK

You said you were offered the gun for under $500, at that price you can't miss, if you don't like it you shouldn't lose a nickle on it if you want to sell. It is definitely a target gun, if you are in the market for a home defense handgun that probably isn't your best choice. It wouldn't be a carry or vehicle gun either, but what a kick at the range! Good luck and welcome to the forum.

Personally, for a first gun, that would not be my choice. I would go with a basic gun with open sights to learn shooting basics. If you could return the pistol to its factory configuration, I think you'd find it easier to use. At $500.00, changing it back to original condition would be much more affordable. Just as a heads up, you could buy the new Ruger Mark IV 22 target model and get a nice gun for not too much more money. Good luck.

I can't imagine not enjoying it at ANY skill level as is, & even if you don't it would be an easy/profitable flip. Win/win. No it's not your average entry level gun. Yes you would be kicking yourself a very long time if you stay with the shooting sports. Buy it quick I doubt it will be for sale long. Be honored they thought of you. This guy knew a thing or two, & I'd dig deep to come up with an offer to buy any other guns & EVERYTHING gun related he owned.

I would buy that mod 41 in a heartbeat. While a long way from mint condition the original owner obviously loved her and spent a lot of money on her. She will be very easy to sell if you don't like her.

Nuts. I just remembered another target shooting gotcha. Find out what ammo was used in the pistol or what it was set up for. Sometimes the bolt face gets cut down for proper headspacing with thin rimmed ammo like Eley or other European brands. If the pistolsmith cuts the bolt face down for thin rim ammo it could cause slam-fires with thicker rim ammo like CCI. Since I mostly use CCI SV in competition for automatics that is what I selected when pistolsmiths asked what to set up for.

If I remember correctly a .042" boltface for Eley and .045" for CCI.

Many of us on here would jump all over that gun if given the chance to buy it as the price is realy good on it and so is the Quality for sure. You will not lose on it at this price even years from now. Check out the price of new one in to-days marketplace and grab this one while you can.

At that price, it's a no-brainer! Enjoy your new gun. Not only will it be a great target shooter, but given it's condition, there's no reason not to get a holster for it and carry it in the woods for plinking or even impromptu beer/soda can shooting. Also great for rodent control at your local landfill if they allow that sort of thing.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Welcome to the forum and I'll add that the M-41 is versatile in that they were made so that the barrels, although they were not sold with the pistol would interchange on to almost any M-41 frame. Even if some minor fitting is required you have a jewel of a pistol. The magazines are available and the grips/stocks can be purchased from several sources also. Buy the pistol and you can outfit it to your likes & needs as you become more familiar with shooting. If nothing else you will have a good investment that will continue to increase in value and provide many hours of shooting pleasure.

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Sam
S&WHF 333 S&WCA 2198

Thank you all for the thoughtful input. You can never really be too sure of what type of response you'll get from these forums, but it's clear that I've landed on a great resource, and I'm excited to learn more.

I know I'm new, I know this is not a ideal gun for a beginner, and I don't want to come off as someone who neglects sound advice, as many seemed to advice that I walk from this purchase. But with that said, I did purchase this gun, and I did so for a couple reasons:

1.) The price was too good to walk away from. After purchasing two new magazines, I still came in at under $400 for this purchase.

2.) Bullseye/Target shooting is appealing to me. I want to get experience with as many shooting styles/firearms as possible.

3.) This will not be my only pistol purchase. If anything, I will pick up something more user friendly to use in the meantime while I take the time to learn about this firearm.

So here's where I'm looking for some more advice. I've read the manual, and I have a much better understanding of this gun than I previously hand, but due to the fact that this gun has some clear alterations done to it (possibly internally), I had considered taking it to a local gunsmith and having him check it over. I want to be safe and I want to make sure I'm operating the gun as it was intended to be operated. The last thing I want to do is get my hands on a great gun and then screw it up due to a lack of know how. Do you guys think that taking it to someone for a once over is a good idea, or would that be unnecessary? If you'd recommend it, what should be some key questions I have for the gunsmith? Also, what would be a reasonable price to pay a gunsmith for this type of service?

After getting my hands on this pistol, the pictures really don't do it justice...It's a damn nice looking gun. Surprisingly, the grips feel like a great fit. I'm really looking forward to giving it a go, but I want to make sure I've got my ducks in a row before heading to the range. Thanks again for all the advice.

Are you going to be shooting it at a public range?
If so there will be other pistol shooters around, any one of the would be very pleased to shoot your Mod 41 and let you know what they think.

Around here no gunsmith would charge for this service, If you go to one ask him for an estimate to look it over before you let him work on it. In my experience everything costs big bucks in NY.

Let a few others shoot it and get their opinions.

I shoot only Remington or CCI standard velocity cartridges in my Mod 41's, I never shoot jacketed or plated bullets through my target pistols, lead is perfect.

You are doing your homework, I applaud you and wish you good times with your pistol, you have one of the best. Please keep us informed as to how it goes.

If you feel at all uncomfortable by all means have someone in the know have a look at it. Can't be too safe plus you will have a better peace of mind when you do make it to the range. Good luck and let us know how it shoots. Sounds like you are dotting the I's and crossing the t's, that's a good sign.

In pistol shooting books in the 1950 and 1960s it was recommended to shoot in Bullseye competitions to reinforce the basics of good shooting techniques before moving on to action shooting. Bill Allard thought that worked well for him.

The Encyclopedia Of Bullseye Pistol

Some guy named Zins on pistol shooting

Zins again

You may want to build up your shooting arm early

Oh yeah, buy a bunch of drywall anchors to dryfire with: Drywall anchor size for .22lr snap caps?

Some pistolsmiths trim the firing pin to prevent damaging contact when pulling the trigger on on empty chamber, but the drywall anchors are good insurance. You'll have to dryfire a lot to be good at Bullseye.

Never dry fire this pistol without some form of cartridge in the chamber. Probably the most I might expect wrong with this gun might be the springs as per how old they are. Good insurance to have it checked by good people in the know. The Price is fantastic for that quality of sportspistol. Good for you.

I'll gladly give you back what you have into it, or trade straight across for a Ruger MKll 4" bull bbl target model. I doubt this guy left it a mess. A simple bore swab & give it a go with a variety of QUALITY ammo. If he had it tuned for a specific ammo type, that may take a bit of time to figure out, but I bet he has records or old targets somewhere. GREAT BUY, enjoy it.

Wish you lived in my area, we would have shot many rounds through her already.

There are many cautions solving problems the pistol probably does not have, you can bet who ever had it before you did a lot of dry firing and if the chamber is not already damaged dry firing will not harm it, unless someone replaced the firing pin, but S&W does know what they are doing when they build pistols so I doubt your firing pin is too long.

I do recommend you stick with lead standard velocity ammo it is usually more accurate in both hand gun and rifle.

Good Luck and please keep us informed as to your progress, it is fun to read from a beginner who is enthusiastic.

I suggest trying CCI SV ammo in this gun as thats what most of us owners use. Blazer which is made by CCI and Wolfe seem to work fairly well also.

I wish I had more people that I knew locally who were as helpful as everyone on this forum...I'm dying to put my first rounds through this pistol. I'll absolutely keep everyone updated.

I did contact my local gunsmith who said he'd once over the gun at no cost. He said if he felt the need for a complete safety check that it wouldn't run me very much at all, but he didn't seem like it would even need it. I'll be going to see him Friday or Saturday this week.

In other related news, Midway is currently running a sale on the magazines for this pistol, so I ordered a few, and then the next day the family contact me to let me know that they found the originals and some leftover ammo...needless to say, that made me a happy camper. The more the merrier.

So as far as ammo goes, I'm getting a lot recommendations for CCI SV. I believe this is the product CCI Standard Velocity Ammo 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Lead Round Nose

I'd take any advice/resources you guys are willing to offer on the ammo and what I should try out...as well as proper cleaning/maintenance practices. I love reading and learning about this stuff, so shoot some resources my way.

I'm sure it won't be long before I start asking about my next purchases, I think I've already caught the bug...thanks for all the help so far!

One thing to consider when buying used is whether the barrel has been drilled and tapped for a sight base. I'm not sure when S&W started doing this, but IMHO, it's a better way to go, as the older you get the more a red dot sight will appeal to you.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Congratulations, sir, I'm glad you purchased it. The Model 41 is a fantastic firearm.

Enjoy it in good health and post some pictures if you can!

Learn to shoot this pistol 1st before you even think about a 9mm. The 22 cal is the cheapest cal to shoot on a reg basis and the best cal to learn properly on. I doubt you will ever need another one for the rest of your life. Yes CCI-SV 40gr is the perfect food for your new to you toy. Have many great years of pleasure from it. A lot of folks at your range will be very jealous of you starting out with such a fine pistol. This buy was a very smart move on your part. Give yourself a pat on the shoulder for buyig this one.

I'm glad you got it and you got a great deal!

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Mike, AmVets Member, Navy Vet

Mark, although these guns can be finicky for ammo, they are pretty fool proof for safety and I doubt your smith will find anything wrong with the firearm. Looking forward to hearing your range report, and don't forget pictures!

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Yes Tom is correct in we like as many pics as possible. Thank You.

Okay, time for the first of many updates. As I expected, I've run into a few issues/questions. For those of you waiting to see some quality photographs of the gun...I'll be sure to take some soon and post them up. I do at this point have some photos, but they're not necessarily what I was hoping for....This might take a while.

I got my magazines in finally and took my new firearm to my local gunsmith for a quick once over and some ammo. The gunsmith I found, as well as his staff, may have provided me with the most outstanding customer service I've ever had. They were so willing to teach me everything they thought I should know as a new gun owner. They praised my firearm, as well as the price I bought it for, as they had a used Model 41 that they were selling for over a grand. Like some of you had done, they suggested that I try out some different ammo to see what the gun likes, and they also sold me a great cleaning kit. I've been more than impressed with all of my interactions with the firearm community so far.

So here's what my experience has looked like so far, I'll break it down into some categories:

The Magazines:
I was disappointed to find that 2 of the 5 I purchased would not release from the gun and simply got stuck. I had to pry them out, and I'll be returning them to midway for replacements. I don't know if this is common with these mags, but it was very frustrating. I did all this before loading the ammo, so the stuck mags were never loaded.

My Trip to the Range
I found a range online and went to check it out. Bottom line, the place was not impressive, and I actually felt really unsafe there. There ended up being no one watching the range I was on, and there were also no surfaces to place my gun and supplies on when at the firing line, which meant people would walk ten or so feet back to a table in the back of the room, load there guns there, and then walk back up to the firing line. Being new, maybe this is normal activity, but I was out of my comfort zone in this place, so I'll be trying someone new next time...there is always my aunt and uncle's farm land.

The Ammo
CCI SV - 50 Rounds
Federal - 50 Rounds
Federal Gold Medal - 100 Rounds

Bottom line, I had problems with all of them. Some of the time I would get through a magazine without any issue, and it was damn fun. Other times, I had to deal with this problem up to every other shot...and it was not fun...
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I'll take any and all advice you have at alleviating this issue. New to the gun and range, this did not make my day any more comfortable. The whole while, I was having some issues with the custom grip that's on the gun, and as a result came home with this little snake bite which was a good sign that I needed to work on my own grip of the gun...
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I feel like I'll be more comfortable with factory grips, so I'll be ordering those from S&W soon.

The Aftermath:
When I got home, I new it was time to clean this bad boy up. I followed the instructions on the kit and I found that I ended up needing to repeat a few steps numerous times. This photo shows the progression of what I found:
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Have I found my problem? I'm wondering if this type of accumulation is normal after firing off 200 rounds, it seemed to me to be excessive. But maybe it's not.

Conclusion So Far:
Needless to say, the trip to the range was a bit stressful, but I'll tell you, when this gun was functioning the way it was supposed to, I could tell, and it was a hell of a lot of fun. I realize that I've got a lot to learn, so I appreciate everyone being so helpful, and I'm excited to keep going. My apologizes for the length of this post...believe it or not, I'm saving a few more questions for later. Thanks!

Mark sometimes new mags have to br broken in a wee bit. I have had new mags stick on me as well for a while until the paint on the sides of them get worn in a bit. I suspect the best shooting was with the CCI SV ammo. The other ammo I would use up in something else. If you are not feeling good about any gunclub you attend then go away from there. They are all different but mostly have all the same Safety rules in place. Ask your local gunsmith who he would recommend to you for which club to start off with. There are certain rules of ediquite that are to be followed in all clubs for safety sake and your safety as well. Watch other shooters in how they approach the line and always have your eyes and ears on. Try a drop oil on the top bullet in a new mag as well as it will help break this new mag in.

I hope some of these replies helps. Don't get stressed out - that's not what shooting is all about, in fact it should be the opposite! Look at this as being a learning experience. After all, you have learned a lot of new things, and there is a lot more to learn. Have fun, work out the kinks (which can be frustrating or fun - depending more on your attitude than anything else), and enjoy your new hobby.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Tom S is right in that this is supposed to be a fun sport. Never get upset as your learning something every time you attend the range Most sport shooters like us try to help each other enjoy the sport, thats why we are there. And have Fun as well.

I've been patiently following this thread, but I've got to see some pictures. I know the gun was right next to those cleaning wads and cuetips. Just move the camera over a bit. 5 or ten would be good. we need a visual with the story. Thanks.