I know the PC's come with the Briley bushing and was wondering if it really makes that big of a difference in accuracy? Is it worth it to have one fitted to a 1911 SC "E" Commander just for an EDC gun?

In my opinion no.

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Straight shootin'
SWCA#2439

If you are getting wildly unacceptable groups at sd ranges then the new bushing MIGHT be helpfull, otherwise it's an unnecessary frill.

I've never encountered a 1911 that won't keep it's shots in 'center of man' at 7-10 yards: this includes WWII era, loose as a goose, pistols.

If you think you'll be shooting at 25-50 yards, then the bushing MAY help if your pistol won't perform adequately at those longer ranges.

My gunsmith custom works all my Colt 1911's which includes turning the barrel in a lathe and installing a custom bushing, but I use my 1911's for everything including shots to 50+ yards hunting. He also manages to keep the pistols 100% reliable.

I don't imagine that just installing a new bushing would achieve what I get from much more sophisticated work.

Okay, haven't shot it yet, but I was wondering if it's overkill or not, looks like it may be. Thanks.

Not really the design of the 1911 permits only a minor bit of barrel tilt and then to battery with a snug fitting barrel bushing. The bushing is rarely an issue with accuracy, to loose throws shots, to tight retards complete and effective battery. The 106 year old designed has worked perfectly through 5 wars and a lot of dust ups.
IMHO don't change a thing.

Yeah, I didn't think so, but why is S&W PC using one on the new 1911PCSC, bragging rights and justification for charging $200 more than the "E" series 'ya reckon?

Less handwork and cheaper to fit. The Briley bushing isn't a big upgrade. It just allows them to make an assembly line gun with a little closer tolerance.

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Straight shootin'
SWCA#2439

*sigh*

Okay, spherical bushings are a bit easier to fit well than a traditional bushing, which is the primary reason you'd use one. They can also be made a bit tighter before you have to use a wrench on them, which is important when you're a manufacturer dealing with a bunch of slow-witted customers (not to say S&W customers are any more slow-witted than the simps that plague other companies). People complain the gun is hard to take apart, and then either send a perfectly good gun back on your dime, or they take some sandpaper and ruin the fit and complain your pistol throws shots or doesn't work or whatever.

You can achieve good accuracy with either type of bushing, but most bullseye pistolsmiths are, I believe, using lots of time and a traditional bushing. Bushings aren't easy--they affect the barrel at every point in operation.

Now here's the rub: your bushing doesn't affect accuracy that much. Lots of people think it's a magical device, but it's not going to make up for poor barrel or slide fitting. The precision pistolsmiths take so much care in fitting bushings because for them, a difference of .5" at 50 yards is the difference between a 1.5" gun that can be shipped out to the customer, and a 2" gun that won't hold the X and has to be refit and tinkered with.

Is S&W taking a shortcut with the spherical bushing? Not really. They're doing the best they can inside of labor and budget constraints. Frankly, it's a lot better than the shortcuts other manufacturers take with their 1911s. And all of them, from Springfield to Para to the much-vaunted Kimber (especially Kimber) take shortcuts. The alternative is a pistol that takes a week to build, which nobody will buy at the price you'd have to charge.

Are they ripping you off? No, they're just being smart. People ascribe magical properties to spherical bushings, so why not tell them about how you used a spherical bushing? Would you rather them say, "We did a slap-dash job fitting a regular bushing"? If rubes want to believe that spherical bushings are magic, let them.

Why use one on the Performance Center and not on the regular E? Well, for the regular E, they're probably just trying a bunch of bushings from a bin, until they get one that fits good enough. Here, they're using what's essentially an E-Z Fit bushing, but they're taking the time to fit it.

I'd also point out that $200 is practically nothing in the realm of custom 1911 work. A trigger job with replacement parts will cost that much. So if $200 buys a better-matched slide, barrel, and frame, or saves you a trigger job, then it's money well spent.

Did not the Smith M52 have a spherical bushing?

OK, so the OP wants a non-traditional bushing installed and fitted, which - unlike the original design - is intended for target shooting with no parameters or testing for functional reliability or durability, in order too improve "accuracy". And this is to be used on a defensive weapon to protect his life, at the usual ranges of less than 50 feet (and mostly less than 20 feet)

Is this a serious question?

My 1911SC will outshoot me any day of the week. I am the weakest link in this partnership. I would not spend my money on the bushing upgrade. Better to spend the cash on more ammo

FYI, I am well over 1000 rounds through my 1911SC. It has been my most reliable 1911 (even over Les Baers, Ed Browns, Kimbers and S&W PC 1911s).

I have S&W 1911s both with the Briley bushing and without. I'm not a good enough shooter to see any difference - in fact, my older (1989-vintage) PC gun without the Briley bushing outshoots the one with the sperical bushing. And I'm one of those who grouse and moan about the bushing being a PITA to remove and reinstall so there's another reason why, to me, they aren't magical.

Ed

Of course its a serious question, I was just wondering if it made that big a difference or was it just "marketing hype" which, after reading the post from those that know, makes sense now why they (S&W) use it. It's all about the Benjamin's and time constraints at S&W. The "E" comes with a match bbl anyway, plus it makes no difference from what I'm reading.

No they didn't.........

Can you please tell us more about your older PC gun? With so much mystery surrounding the PC... 1989 sounds early to me and I would love to know more!

Much thanks.

Sure. It is a Doug Koenig edition 1911 in .38 Super that I bought from a fellow forum member in near-new condition a few years back.





I don't know how many were produced (there were two batches) as the SCoSW doesn't provide that data for this model. But they were supposed to be hand-tuned replicas of Doug Koenig's match pistol - the slide is lightened by having material milled from it in the bead-blasted areas and I'm told the trigger is a DK design.

The two batches do differ slightly but the only differences I've been able to detect are the triggers and sights. The two triggers were shaped a little differently, mine has a Wilson Combat rear sight while the other version has an S&W sight and mine came with a fiber optic front sight where the other version had a Patridge. It came in an aluminum presentation case from the Performance Center with the customary tools and paperwork.

It is the nicest shooting 1911 I've ever shot.

Ed

Ahh yes! I remember when you showed us that in an earlier thread! Extremely cool handgun and I would love to handle one of those someday.

I certainly don't know for sure but I would say that it is most definitely not from 1989-ish. To the best of my knowledge, S&W debuted the 945's before they ever began to build any 1911 pistols and Doug Koenig became their top sponsored pro shooter some time in the 1990's.

The DK .38 Super was listed at $2,417 MSRP in the 2008 catalog.

May also be worth noting (and I'm sure you know!) that they also had a .45cal Doug Koenig edition pistol and it retailed for like a thousand dollars less and I actually have handled one of those. Neat, but definitely not built to the level of PC guns so I can only assume that the .45 is not near the pistol you own.

They're running a business, and 1911s are a very crowded market segment. They have to make a competitive gun. That means balancing time and money against what the customer is willing to pay. For what they're offering over the base model, the Pro series is a steal. I fail to see how that's "all about the Benjamin's".

Suppose Smith offered a pistol that cost $3500, and delivered 1.5" groups at 50 yards, perfect reliability, and did everything except clean itself and lend you money?

Nobody would buy it! It would be foolish to purchase such a gun. For the same money, I could go out to the "short list" of my favorite pistolsmiths, and have them build me a completely custom gun. Forget a Les Baer, I could have a David Sams, KC Crawford, a Cabot...hell, even an Ed Masaki. Although I doubt I could get a Dragon Gun for that money.


Companies make a big deal about all sorts of stuff, most of which doesn't actually matter. External extractors, skeletonized triggers, ambidextrous safeties (for a non-competition gun, I'd rather not!), full-length guide rods--you name it, somebody's invented a problem and a re-engineered solution.

Spend that money on Ammo and go shoot.

Save all the ammo money and try dry fire practice using a 25 yard target set at 50 yards. The wiggles, jiggles, and front sight don't lie!

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S&WHF 366

I'm sorry, I don't care how accurate that "Dragon" may be, it looks like something he welded up after watching a Star Wars movie...UGLY gun of the year!

Sevens, you are no doubt right about the year of my 1911's manufacture being incorrect. I have a 686-3 National Match and the 500 of them were only made in 1989 - sorry for the confusion.

Ed

I thought I wanted the Briley bushing when I got my stainless e-series just over a year ago. I figured I could make it closer to a performance center for short money. So I tried reading up on it. But never found any significant info that would benefit me. So I started to loose interest in the idea. In the meantime I've put about 800-900 rounds through the pistol. Not one single issue. So I guess I really never needed the upgraded bushing.

I don't think that any top 1911 pistolsmiths are regularly using the Briley bushings. I have to say that I like accurate pistols, as long as they are reliable. If you have the marksmanship skills to shoot well at distances of 25 yards and up, you will appreciate getting accuracy work done. If you are like most folks nowadays who don't shoot a handgun beyond 10 yards, accuracy work is a waste of money, as are trigger jobs, etc. Any 1911 will shoot groups at short distances.