Recently purchased a 5906 and noticed that my grip is like the one in the picture on the right...not upgraded. I called S&W and they no longer honor the recall due to no parts. After talking to customer service and sending this picture in, she checked with someone named Mark who has worked there for 45 years and has worked on these guns a lot. He said that the picture on the right is actually the upgraded one as it has the small dimple on the very back of the grip and that the one that is "upgraded" is a mold mark made by a different supplier. I'd like to make sure I have a reliable grip, but not sure who's right. Any thoughts?

The dimple on the right seems to have been intentionally put there. Hopefully one of the armorer members will know for sure, but new grips from Midway or Brownells are still available if you don't get a satisfactory answer.

I can't comment on the one on the right. However, the one on the left is a S&W upgraded grip.
Look at this picture below. I am absolutely 100% positive that grip came from S&W. Note the dimple location.

__________________
183rd FBINA

It's probably reasonable to assume that some early upgraded grips may have been hand-punched before the dimple was subsequently added to the mold. If your grip has nothing resembling a punch at all on either side of the lanyard hole, it is a pre-recall grip.

I wish that was the case. Midway is out of stock on straight and curved with no back order. Brownells is the same

Yep....and that's the one that they are telling me is strictly a "mold mark" left behind from a different suplier

From what the factory is telling me, they were hand punched...and the grip does have the small punch on the very edge of the grip. Problem is a lot of people are saying that the bigger dimple closer to the mag well is the upgrade (the original picture) and the factory is telling me the small punch on the edge is the correct one. I have zero experience with this particular gun but there are a lot of people here that do

I have personally returned 6 pre-recall grips to S&W and the replacements sent all had the molded dimple next to the mag well. (as pictured again and no disrespect to "Mark").

Attached Images

5904BUTTa.jpg (6.0 KB, 28 views)

The grip recall was done in 1990... so is S&W (Mark) claiming that S&W has been shipping 3rd gens out with the "non upgraded" (molded dimple) grip for as long as 11 years after the recall? Talk about S&W leaving themselves open to a host of liability issues, if so.

My 4006 IDPA model from the Performance Center has a fired cartridge case envelope with a 03-14-01 date, wearing the molded dimple grip from the Performance Center.

Here's a jpeg image of the recall as published... sorry for the lousy resolution, but the notice shows the "new" grips originally having the dimple in 2 locations, at the rear for 9mm pistols, and next to the mag well opening for .45 & 10mm pistols. Which undoubtedly morphed to the single location we're used to seeing.

Attached Images

S&W Safety Alert.jpg (50.1 KB, 130 views)

__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Those are my pictures of my pistols.

The grip on the 915 on the left was sent to me by S&W as a factory replacement per the recall. I got the grip in 2006 and installed it myself.

The grip on the 3913 on the right (TDF prefix) is original to the pistol and has never been upgraded.

Dave

That would answer the question then. The 5906 should have the dimple at the rear of the grip going by the recall image

Thanks for the images.....Google found them for me. Strange that the 915 is a 9mm but the original recall clipping that Gunhacker showed has the 9mm at the edge and the .45 by the mag well and yours is clearly by the mag well. Suppose I'll just roll with it since they're next to impossible to find and no major retailers are carrying them any longer

I had a replacement for the 3913 that I gave to a friend and it had the same round dimple that the 915 shows in the same spot. I'll check to see if I have a picture.

That small divot on my 3913 is actually an impact mark, the grip didn't come that way. There are actually a couple of other marks close to it on the back of the grip. They came from falling off a table onto gravel at an outdoor range. Remember that that is a magnified picture and the divot is about the diameter of a high E or B guitar string. I doubt S&W would take the time to do that by hand. I know they didn't in my case.

Dave

There are still some people working at the company who were probably around for the original AIP period (Auto Improvement Program, which resulted in the 3rd gen models), and I'd not quickly discount someone still working being able to remember this grip material change and being able to give you the right info. (Of course, there are fewer of them still there, and those remaining numbers are getting closer to retirement all the time. One of my longtime LE parts & armorer contacts, who was involved with the original 645/4506 guns, retired a little while ago.)

Anyway, I have some used double stack 9/.40 grips in my spare parts, both full-size & compact, as well as a couple of grips from the original TSW 9/.45 guns and even a couple of both (still) new & used full-size .45 grips.

The .45 grips & new production 9 single stack compact grips exhibit the "softer" molded dimple next to the mag well, but the older double stack 9/.40 grips are a mix of having dimple or punch marks on each side of the U-notch cut window, meaning next to the mag well or at the rear of the grip. The smaller punch marks are located somewhere (variably, or even sloppily) toward the rear of the grip, and are smaller and "sharper" in appearance.

It's goes back a ways, but our original 3rd gen duty guns were from the early '89/'90 production, and we later got a huge box of replacement grips when they changed the grip material (the "recall"), and I remember seeing them with the smaller punch marks to the rear of the grip. I also remember being told they were being hand-marked back then, which would explain the somewhat "inconsistent" placement of the punch marks on different grips.

We were told in an armorer class that as long as the new grips exhibited a dimple or punch mark on either the front (near mag well) or rear (behind U-notch cut) of the bottom of the grip, it was the revised ("upgraded"), stronger grip material.

Also, FWIW, I remember being told that the company's decision to change the grip material had resulted from a very, very small number (a few?) grips that had suffered cracking when being dropped onto a hard surface. S&W still commanded a strong segment of the LE market back then, so there were a lot of guns in-service.

I'd not be surprised if they were getting their grips made by more than one vendor back then, either, because we were sometimes told that the same thing happened with other plastic parts from time to time. (I also remember being told that they usually used a couple of different vendors for both mag bodies springs.)

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Just to add to the confusion, I got a picture of the 3913 replacement grip sent to me by S&W a number of years ago. After I dropped my pistol and the grip didn't break I figured I didn't need the new one.

Not my pistol but definitely the new grip I passed along to the owner.



Dave

I bought a 6906 last June, and it didn't have the dimpled grips. I sent it to Smith and the ones they put on it look exactly like these.

Since we now have the owner of the gun in the photo (D Rock) who explained the mark on the grip on the right was caused when he dropped the gun on gravel it appears that "Mark at S&W for 45 years" has been caught blowing smoke at someone.

__________________
183rd FBINA

What still boggles my mind is how seemingly randomly the grips recall is still being honored or dishonored by current S&W CS personnel. I've told my stories before (successes, failures and outright BS thrown at me) so I won't repeat them again... but PLEASE S&W!!! Make up your minds!!! Are you still honoring the recall or not? Don't tell one person one story and the very next person who calls gets an entirely different story. That makes no sense at all.

[/rant]

HELLO ALL! PERHAPS I CAN ADD SOME CONFUTION TOO TO THIS SUBJECT, LOL!! I ALSO HAVE THIS RECALL PRINTED IN SOME GUNS AND AMMO ISSUE FROM BACK IN THE DAY, BUT IT WILL TAKE ME A DAY TO GO THROUGH ARCHIVES TO FIND IT. MY 4506 NO DASH SQ. TRGGRD, CAME WITH THE CURVED BACKSTRAP, NO DIMPLE, AND A HAIRLINE CRACK TO ITS BOTTOM. THE CRACK WAS NOT SOMETHING I CARED ABOUT, BUT SEEING THAT NEW GRIPS FOR 3RD "GEMS" WERE DRYING UP, I GOT A REPLACEMENT FROM NUMRICH, 4 - 5 YEARS AGO. IT SEEMS THAT THERE IS A DIMPLE TO IT, BUT GUESS WHERE?? ON THE SIDE! I HOPE THE PICTURES UPLOAD. NOW I AM CURIOUS TO LOOK AT THE 5904 AND 5906 I GOT, TO SEE IF THEY HAVE OR NOT HAVE DIMPLES.

OK, WHERE DID MY PICTURES GO???

PICTURES TAKE THREE! "CLACK"!! LOL

Attached Images

	IMG_20170504_180957.jpg (29.1 KB, 55 views)
	IMG_20170504_181041 (1).jpg (29.7 KB, 56 views)
	IMG_20170504_181100 (1).jpg (28.9 KB, 55 views)

Don't want to question anyone else's knowledge. All I can speak to is my own pistol and what happened to it. At some point they may well have hand punched. I've never seen anything but the small round dimple in my pictures.

Edit: Just got to look at SOTVEN's pictures. Looks like a hand stamp to me and in a more logical spot than at the joint of the plastic mold line, like the divot in mine.

Dave

My 6906 looks like the pistol on the left. I have no idea about the history of the pistol. What defect was the recall supposed to correct?

__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

HELLO FRIEND, AS FAR AS I CAN RECALL FROM 25 YEARS AGO, THE ORIGINAL PLASTIC GRIPS WERE A BIT ON THE HARD SIDE, AND IF A PISTOL WAS DROPPED AT A SPECIFIC ANGLE ON A HARD SURFACE, THEY COULD BRAKE. SO ANOTHER MORE ELASTIC PLASTIC COMPOUND WAS USED. OR SO I REMEMBER.

Edit: Just got to look at SOTVEN's pictures. Looks like a hand stamp to me and in a more logical spot than at the joint of the plastic mold line, like the divot in mine.

Dave[/QUOTE]

HELLO FRIEND, I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU CAN TELL BY THE PICTURES, BUT THE PLASTIC HAS FORMED A RIDGE AROUND THE DIMPLE. TO ME IT SEEMS AS IF IT WAS DONE WHILE THE PLASTIC WAS STILL WARM. THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THIS DIMPLE WAS DONE INTENTIONALY BY THE MANUFACTURER. BUT IT IS NOWHERE NEAR WHERE THE RECALL POST WOULD MAKE ME EXPECT IT TO BE. NOW I AM REALLY CURIOUS TO SEE THE 59XXS. HOPEFULLY SUNDAY, I WILL BE BACK HOME, AND TAKE A LOOK.

I agree, that looks like it was done when the plastic was warm. Or I guess a small tip iron could have been used. I think that's why some thought the grip on my 3913 was marked that way rather than being dropped.

Dave

I missed where the OP explained he'd dropped the gun onto gravel, butt-first. If so, it might explain why the "punch mark" was much farther to the rear than any I've seen, although it wouldn't be surprising if someone sitting around and punching grips got sloppy after having to punch hundreds (or thousands) of grips.

That's a pretty evenly shaped and rounded mark for a bit of gravel to create, although stranger things have happened.

I kinda wished I'd grabbed a few more new/recall grip replacements before the big box of new/unused double stack full-size and compact grips was tossed out a couple years ago.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Not the OP. D Rock. Post # 10 and # 13.

__________________
183rd FBINA

HELLO ALL. HAD THE CHANCE TO RUN THROUGH ARCHIVES AND STORED PARTS THIS PAST SUNDAY, FEELING LIKE GANDALF SEARCHING FOR THE RING'S PAST IN THE MONASTERY LIBRARY! LOL! I DID FIND THE POSTED RECALL MENTIONED ABOVE AT A GUNS AND AMMO NOVEMBER 1990!!! I CAN NOT BELIEVE HOW TIME HAS PASSED SO FAST! YES, INDEED, THE PROBABILITY OF BRAKEAGE WAS THE REASON FOR THE RECALL. HERE ARE PCKS OF MY 4506 ORIGINAL GRIP, (OR WITH WHICH I GOT IT WHEN I BOUGHT IT USED) NO DIMPLE, AND A CRACK TO IT. NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH IT FIRING THOUGH. THE 5906, A MUCH NEWER PIECE, WITH VCD S.#. AND MIM HAMMER&TRIGGER, HAS THE DIMPLE, EXACTLY WHERE ITS SUPPOSED TO BE PER AD, AND NOT LIKE THE NEW 4506 POSTED EARLIER. HOWEVER, MY EARLY 5904 (TCF), NO DIMPLE, ONE MAY SEE HOW THE GRIP HAS BROKEN. NO, I DID NOT BRAKE IT. THIS GUN BELONGED TO A BODYGUARD FOR ABOUT 25 YEARS, AND HAS LOTS OF WEAR. IT CAME TO ME RECENTLY, AND AN OVERHAUL IS IN ORDER. ITS NEW WALNUT GRIP HAS ARRIVED FROM KSD, AND SOON WILL BE STARTING ITS NEW LIFE. THE BROKEN GRIP HAS A SMALL SHIFT AROUND, BUT IT DOES NOT STOP THE GUN FROM SINGING THROUGH THE 15RD MAGAZINES. SO I ASSUME, THE GRIPS CAN BRAKE, BUT ITS NOT REALLY A HORIFIC THING IN TERMS OF OPERATION

Attached Images

	IMG_20170508_133647.jpg (43.4 KB, 29 views)
	IMG_20170508_133719.jpg (41.1 KB, 27 views)
	IMG_20170508_121216.jpg (61.7 KB, 39 views)
	IMG_20170508_121019.jpg (46.6 KB, 36 views)
	IMG_20170507_100747.jpg (30.8 KB, 39 views)

AND THE 5904. THE SERVER COULD NOT LOAD ALL THE PICTURES AT ONCE.

Attached Images

	IMG_20170507_100722.jpg (39.0 KB, 37 views)
	IMG_20170507_100717.jpg (45.6 KB, 38 views)
	IMG_20170507_100712.jpg (34.2 KB, 40 views)