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  #51  
Old 05-06-2017, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6string View Post
I'm not gonna take sides in the S&W 1911 argument, but I'll mention something I think is important to consider.
For years, beginning in the 1960s, Smith and Wessonmade, what many considered to be, amongst the very best match grade 1911 barrels. These were offered exclusively to military pistol team gunsmiths, such as the Army Marksmanship Unit at Ft. Benning. They were strictly gunsmith-fit only barrels, having oversized lugs, barrel hood, etc. They were made mostly in 45 ACP and 38 Special, though the latter may well have been used for the 38 AMU cartridge as well.
This has all been well documented. See the following for lots more info:
9781931464185: US Military Match and Marksmanship Automatic Pistols - AbeBooks - Bill Jenkins: 1931464189

Something to consider before passing judgement on S&W and their ability to build a good 1911...
Just did some Googling on this. Very interesting! Highly sought after barrels, that even turned some old Colts into a precision firearm. Interesting indeed! Long live my S&W E series!
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  #52  
Old 05-06-2017, 08:05 PM
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Regardless of some of the feedback, am convinced S&W produces a fine 1911. For those who think it incongruous for S&W to make 1911s, the same attitude should apply to the M&P pistol and carbine lines. I have those in my safe too along with a M24, M15, M63, M64, M625 M686, & M627 revolvers.

Guess I'm a S&W fan.
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  #53  
Old 05-06-2017, 11:06 PM
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Let's stay on topic.
If any buddies want to chat about other topics, try the PM function. LOL

And......everybody be nice or go home.
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  #54  
Old 05-06-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Bingo! We have a winner. There it is right there... the real underlying reason why I'll probably never own an S&W 1911. If I ever want to buy another 1911, I'll likely buy a 1911 from a company that originated or at least specializes in 1911s... not some company just jumping into the mix for a little extra profit. S&W fanboy that I am, I still don't worship and adore S&W so much that I would buy anything they build just because they built it.

TSSH , like their revolvers, I can assure you S&W didn't just build a 1911 just to make a buck, no doubt, they did want to make money. But the bottom line, they built a quality pistol! I have purchased a few S&W 1911's, from the 1st year they built them in Spfld to Houlton, Me and back to Spfld.. I own a couple Colts, Dan Wessons, and shot a few other brands.. I love my S&W... but then you all know that..


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Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Obviously S&W loves their 1911's, look at the craftsmanship, it's top notch.

yep, you got it right there..

Now some here, in this section of the forum, get all butt hurt cause their favorite guns are no longer being made so they lash out in frustration. It's so transparent.

Gee, I wonder who that could possibly be ... I'll give you 18 guesses..

I own a half dozen Colts and see nothing negative about the 1911 made by S&W or SA or Ruger or RIA.
I draw the line at Sig's and Tauri
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Originally Posted by Tanners Owner View Post
Regardless of some of the feedback, am convinced S&W produces a fine 1911. For those who think it incongruous for S&W to make 1911s, the same attitude should apply to the M&P pistol and carbine lines. I have those in my safe too along with a M24, M15, M63, M64, M625 M686, & M627 revolvers.

Ditto here

Guess I'm a S&W fan.
Guess I am too...
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  #55  
Old 05-06-2017, 11:33 PM
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here's a few of my favorites, I've added about 6 more since this picture and sold off a few.. couple of 945's at the top and a Colt and an M&P..
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  #56  
Old 05-06-2017, 11:52 PM
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Nice collection Jack, and I really like that shorty 945.
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  #57  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:20 AM
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While they are nice guns. I'll give my 2 pennies. A 1911 that isn't a colt is kinda a copy or a knock off. Kinda like any plastic gun that's not a Glock is a copy. Not that those are the best. I like the smith 1911s. Don't have one but very nice.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6string View Post
I'm not gonna take sides in the S&W 1911 argument, but I'll mention something I think is important to consider.
For years, beginning in the 1960s, Smith and Wesson made, what many considered to be, amongst the very best match grade 1911 barrels. These were offered exclusively to military pistol team gunsmiths, such as the Army Marksmanship Unit at Ft. Benning. They were strictly gunsmith-fit only barrels, having oversized lugs, barrel hood, etc. They were made mostly in 45 ACP and 38 Special, though the latter may well have been used for the 38 AMU cartridge as well.
This has all been well documented. See the following for lots more info:
9781931464185: US Military Match and Marksmanship Automatic Pistols - AbeBooks - Bill Jenkins: 1931464189

Something to consider before passing judgement on S&W and their ability to build a good 1911...
Lot's of things I didn't/don't know , and this is one of them. Very interesting.
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  #59  
Old 05-07-2017, 08:31 AM
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I think it's time for an updated family picture.. these S&W 1911's are a beautiful and great functioning pistol ...
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:56 AM
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Here we go
.. my S&W FAMILY...



Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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  #61  
Old 05-07-2017, 11:02 AM
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I've got an SW1911, 108282, smaller rollmark version that came after billboard versions. I was thinking of trading for an e-series or going up to PC. Would it be worth trading for one or the other? Thanks!
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:14 PM
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I've got an SW1911, 108282, smaller rollmark version that came after billboard versions. I was thinking of trading for an e-series or going up to PC. Would it be worth trading for one or the other? Thanks!
I'd keep it, buy the other 2!!! Inch by inch is a cinch... I'll put that billboard on layaway.. my local FFL always has at least one in the closet I'm paying on. I just completed a couple of deals for a 19-3 snubby and a 640 Pro Series. Time to put another in the closet. He has a 629 LH in the display case, but it's a consignment, $1400 is just too much without a box. I sold a few of my older ones and regret it now, looking to replace em. I purchased several, like new 1911's, for $650-700 a few years back, now they want $800 to $850.. used
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  #63  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:59 PM
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Bottom line is no matter who makes it besides Colt it is a copy. Some are very good, a lot are over priced (including Colt). I prefer Colt and have a Series 70 Gold Cup. Bought it used and at what I consider a reasonable price. Are the S&W's better???? Maybe, but they and all the others are copies. That is the greatest compliment to Colt.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles2014 View Post
I've got an SW1911, 108282, smaller rollmark version that came after billboard versions. I was thinking of trading for an e-series or going up to PC. Would it be worth trading for one or the other? Thanks!
The E series has a few alleged upgrades, mostly the trigger construction as I recall. If your older gun runs good, I don't see a lot of advantages in "upgrading. The PC gun might be another story. Don't have one, so I can't comment.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:29 PM
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I'm a big fan of my SC-E round butt. My first 1911 was a Dan Wesson V-Bob, and... I dunno, it didn't work for me. I ended up letting go of it, thinking 1911's just weren't my thing. There wasn't much to not like about the V-Bob, but it sort of felt sterile to me, and I never really bonded with it, if that makes sense. Several months later, I sort of lucked into this gently used specimen, and couldn't be happier. This is the experience I was looking for when I had the DW. I'm not crazy about the full-length guide rod, but I don't dislike it... just different than what I had gotten used to. Love the way it looks, feels, and shoots.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:05 PM
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Have one of the first scandium 1911's to come out. Great gun. It's wearing a Kimber .22 conversion top side right now and shoots just fine. The only 1911 I like better is my martially marked Remington Rand from WWII, but I don't shoot that one much as it's as old as I am. Hell of a shooter though and is all original.
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
LOL!!! Well, maybe not the dark corners of the Internet but if I were a big 1911 aficionado, I would probably hang out over on the 1911 Forum.
Exactly... I'm no gun snob, more of a gun slut I have five 1911 copies or derivatives, since none are actual Colts made to 1911 military specifications. (Even a Colt Commander is technically NOT a 1911, nor is one in 9mm or any other caliber than .45 acp.) The 1911 forum is my goto for 1911 info, and this forum (http://smith-wessonforum.com) is my goto for my three Smith & Wesson wheel guns, as well as my two S&W autoloaders.

If I were lucky enough to own a S&W 1911, I would only look here for information specific to that particular model, and not for general 1911 info.

Opinions may vary.

Some posters mentioned the extractor... the successor to Browning's 1911, the Browning Hi Power was designed in 1914 and had an internal extractor. Browning died in 1926. In 1962 the design was modified to replace the internal extractor with an external extractor to improve reliability.

It would be interesting to know if other makers of 1911 variants tried internal extractors prior to 1962.

Harold
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  #68  
Old 05-08-2017, 06:45 PM
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I think a big part of it is that People just don't associate S&W with 1911s.

I think people typically associate Quality Revolvers with S&W first and Foremost. Then the M&P/Shield, then the older Semi-Autos.

S&W 1911s also just don't look like traditional 1911s either. That is OK, I have a Custom Caspian Build that is non-traditional and is the best gun I own.

Every S&W 1911 I have handled seemed extremely well made, I just think people don't associate 1911s with S&W.

The funny thing is that for a long time, they provided Frame and Slide forgings to Kimber, and Kimber was making more 1911s than anyone. So S&W in a way, has been at the 1911 game for a while.

It's also interesting that note that as much as I really like Sig Sauer, and I equate Sig Sauer to S&W in terms of Quality, fit/finish and value, that I am not a fan of Sig Sauer 1911s. I have a P226, a P227, a P239 - all EXCELLENT Semi-Autos, but I would pass on a Sig 1911.

I know I am weird...

If a S&W 1911 fell into my lap, I would snag it though.
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  #69  
Old 05-08-2017, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper View Post
I'm a big fan of my SC-E round butt. My first 1911 was a Dan Wesson V-Bob, and... I dunno, it didn't work for me. I ended up letting go of it, thinking 1911's just weren't my thing. There wasn't much to not like about the V-Bob, but it sort of felt sterile to me, and I never really bonded with it, if that makes sense. Several months later, I sort of lucked into this gently used specimen, and couldn't be happier. This is the experience I was looking for when I had the DW. I'm not crazy about the full-length guide rod, but I don't dislike it... just different than what I had gotten used to. Love the way it looks, feels, and shoots.

[IMG][/IMG]
This gun in 9mm would be perfect. Dont know why Smith doesnt do it. They make 1,000 flavors, just not that one
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_R View Post

S&W 1911s also just don't look like traditional 1911s either. That is OK, I have a Custom Caspian Build that is non-traditional and is the best gun I own.
At one time I built M1911's as a hobby, about 35 or 40 of them. The best frame was a Colt (very hard to get), my next choice was the Caspian. At the time outside of Colt the best frame available was the Caspian.
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:06 PM
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I have both. Which one I use depends upon mood.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:21 PM
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I think one of the biggest impediments to more S&W 1911's being sold is their starting price points. Just looking at Bud's, the cheapest S&W 1911 is the E series at $770. And while the quality may very well be excellent, that price point is just high as compared to all the imports being sold for well under $500 for basic 1911 pistols.

I've been contemplating getting me a 45 Auto 1911 style pistol for a while. And now that I've collected as many model 27's as I plan on getting, I'll probably look for a 1911 before the year is out. And since it will just be a knock around and range toy, I doubt that I will want to spend as much as an E series starts at. That is the main drawback for me. I have a friend that has a S&W 1911 he bought quite a while ago; I guess it's a 945 from looking at the manual pictures on the Smith& Wesson website. And it shoots just fine too, the few times I've shot it. But that high price point is the main thing I think holding back their sales figures. Heck, just looking at Bud's 1911 offerings, they have a couple of Magnum Research 1911's and even a Colt 1911 listed cheaper than the E series. And many, many imported 1911's being sold by ATI, RIA and others.

As for the external extractor, that doesn't bother me any. My Coonan Classic is a kind of hybrid 1911 with some Hi Power features and it uses an external extractor.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:01 PM
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I usually prefer the original more than the copy. Yes I like the original old songs and the original Pony Car too. I am old and not going to change anytime soon! I also think the Model 19 of the same era as the Python is every bit as good a gun, I have owned copies of both over the years, 50+ now!
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:43 PM
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Default Don't have one, but wouldn't mind one

I don't have a SW1911 because I have a Colt 1911, one of the "instant collectible" WWI commemoratives that somebody had halfway made into an IPSC gun, and have't felt a serious need for another 1911, at least not as serious as the price tag S&W puts on this baby. From what I've seen, it's an excellent weapon and not really overpriced for as nice as it is. When I was teaching at one of the youth programs ten years or so back, it amused me to hear the Kimber fans raving about their guns while bashing the S&W. Apparently none of them knew that Kimber was, at that time, buying their frames, slides and lots of other parts direct from S&W. If I do buy or build another gun on this platform, it's likely to be a semi-compact .38 Super, and I don't see Smith making one of those, at least not yet.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiveturki View Post
This gun in 9mm would be perfect. Dont know why Smith doesnt do it. They make 1,000 flavors, just not that one
AMEN to this, Jive!! Especially with 9mm 1911's being in fashion right now. Look how well the EMP has done, and even now the newest Contour Carry is hard to find in stock. I got the new Ruger SR1911 9mm commander last fall, and I absolutely love it, it's so much fun, and pretty darned accurate too. The SC-E gun in 9mm would absolutely be on my short list vs. the full-sized 9mm 1911 offerings from S&W.

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Old 05-09-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by spistols View Post
I am not a 1911 guy, but just saw one at my local store for $600 used. Worth jumping on? Not an E Series or PC.
Without question!
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:17 AM
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First 1911 and I'm impressed. This was the last 100 rounds of the "break-in 500" that I'd read so much about. My copy fired all 500 without any failures (all hand loads). Recoil is ridiculously manageable, making the weapon easy to fire at a decent pace. The factory mags that were included did not give me any issues (I think they are made by Checkmate), and I have two Mec-Gars arriving soon after reading favorable reviews.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:07 PM
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It's hard to get too excited about a gun that every manufacturer produces, isn't all that reliable out of the box, is expensive, and complex.

I was at last year's NRA Annual Meetings and it was almost impossible to go past a booth that didn't have some sort of 1911 accessory, or frames, or slides, or entire guns. Ruger, Sig, Smith, Colt, Kimber, Rock Island, and just about everyone else has a 1911 model or ten that they offer.

There is money in them, obviously, but I just can't get excited when there are better designs available for less money.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:27 PM
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I am not a 1911 guy, but just saw one at my local store for $600 used. Worth jumping on? Not an E Series or PC.
I'd be all over that... fact is, I made a beeline to my local GS for a billboard 2004 built SW1911SC I saw last week but was unable to hang around long enough to check it out.. It would have cost me $650 3-4 years ago.. today, it's $800 and I fell for it. Clean, clean with one nick on the inside grip. Box and paperwork included.. I took a picture before he put it in the closet for me..
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:29 PM
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I'd be all over that... fact is, I made a beeline to my local GS for a billboard 2004 built SW1911SC I saw last week but was unable to hang around long enough to check it out.. It would have cost me $650 3-4 years ago.. today, it's $800 and I fell for it. Clean, clean with one nick on the inside grip. Box and paperwork included.. I took a picture before he put it in the closet for me..


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Old 05-10-2017, 08:30 AM
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That's a beauty Jack, and I don't think you'll have any problems finding parts should you need them.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:42 AM
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That's a beauty Jack, and I don't think you'll have any problems finding parts should you need them.
Stop teasing me ....
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:40 PM
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:45 PM
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Nice pics & nice gun! now what's the story? Inquiring minds want to know
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:00 AM
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First 1911 and I'm impressed. This was the last 100 rounds of the "break-in 500" that I'd read so much about. My copy fired all 500 without any failures (all hand loads). Recoil is ridiculously manageable, making the weapon easy to fire at a decent pace. The factory mags that were included did not give me any issues (I think they are made by Checkmate), and I have two Mec-Gars arriving soon after reading favorable reviews.
Range report on the Mec-Gar mags: ran approximately 100 rounds between the two that I received and they functioned without issue.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:58 AM
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Got it! Homerun, it's a beauty, nicer than the pics show. Lots of love for this one, built by The Performance Center.... 2004 .. trigger is smooth as glass





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Old 05-19-2017, 01:21 PM
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1911 freaks tend to huddle by themselves in dark corners of the web, cursing those who question.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:56 PM
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Some of us are just partial to the pony semi autos.


The main reason I don't have one (yet) is just because it seems like the further I stray from a regular 1911 the more problems I have. I've had problems with the Schwartz safety on a Kimber (with if I remember right the S&W has too) and I've had problems with the external extractor on a Sig 1911. And as bad as I want one of the Performance Center 1911s with the slide cuts, I just can't bring myself to pay that much for a 1911 with features I've had nothing but problems from; compared to a standard Series 70 that, while I'm no Bill Wilson, I know how to fix most of the main problems you'll have.

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Kinda like any plastic gun that's not a Glock is a copy.
Well actually, the first plastic framed pistol was the HK VP70 that came out 12 years before the Glock 17, and if I remember right there have been striker fired handguns since the early 1900s. So really the only thing that Glock was first at was building a dirt cheap, reliable pistol and having really good marketing (and let's face it, they probably weren't first at that either).
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:12 PM
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it is, for me, a case of the oughta be's. .44 mags oughta be S&W, 1911s oughta be Colts. Pump shotguns oughta be 870s. Ain't notin' but a preference thang.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:14 PM
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The 1911CT .45 Auto E Series get's my love.I do agree with you.I can't fine much info on this forum about them either.Mine have the Crimson Trace Laser.
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:16 AM
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I have 4 SW 1911's. my favorite is the 9mm pro version. I have yet to find a colt 1911 that impresses me.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:06 AM
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JMHO, but I think the reason why there aren't more threads about the SW1911 guns -- of which there are several variations, each with its own appeal -- is that the Third Generation pistols cover such a wide range of combinations of caliber, size and action, and do it so well. Compared to them, the SW1911s came later to the party, and while they are a worthy design and excellent quality at an attractive price compared to other makers' offerings, there is more to compete with out there. The Third Generation guns are really a world unto themselves in that regard, and on a Forum like this one, the volume of talk about them compared to the SW1911s reflects a much greater number of owners. Again, JMHO, and no slight intended toward the SW1911 guns (which I, even as a confirmed Third Gen guy, have been tempted to begin dabbling in... ).

BTW, IRT a previous post: from what I've read, John Browning himself was the one who first improved his original 1910 design of the 1911 by later incorporating an external extractor.
I collect Smith revolvers, but I like me some Gen 3 and 1911 too.



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Old 05-24-2017, 09:29 AM
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It could be because they seem to have a propensity to change from the original design. The Walther PPK & PPK/S that they produced are not worth as much as Interarms models. Their 1911 pistols are not worth as much as Colt's. They make some fine firearms, others not so fine. If they were more true to original designs their guns would be worth more, and sell better.
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:49 AM
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Well, after almost 100 posts, looks like a lot of love for the S&W 1911's to me.. The few neg posts are just that... you can't make all the people happy all the time ... it looks like most of the negs never even shot or handled a S&W 1911. Because there are a few changes from the original design, does not mean it's not as good. In fact, the opposite seems to be true. The few with bad experiences ... heck, I'll bet there are bad experiences with a Colt ... do a search.. that's just not a legit angle.

I live in Mass, so getting Colts, Kimbers, Wilsons, DW's or any other top name brands just is not in the cards thanks to our politicians.. I have a few of the mentioned brands, and can't say they are any better than my S&W's .. although my Dan Wesson Guardian 9mm Bobtail Commander ... is quite a gun... but it doesn't make my S&W 1911's any less of a great gun!
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:46 AM
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Just about everyone, except for maybe Colt, has changed from the original design. There is a large industry built around making upgrade parts or performing upgrade services to 1911s.

Last year at the NRAAM I walked the exhibit hall and was amazed that just about every gun manufacturer has one or more 1911 models for sale.

Colt, SW, Kimber, Ruger, Sig, Taurus, Rock Island, to name a few. HK and Charter seem to be the only two name brands that don't have 1911s.

That doesn't mention the specialty houses that make high priced versions or will modify other brands. Or the companies that make parts to improve the accuracy, durability, and reliability of the 1911.

Yes, I've shot a 1911. A $3,500.00 custom built one that a friend of mine owns. It shoots beautifully and has a 3.5 pound trigger. My 457 doesn't have a 3.5 pound trigger, but it also shoots beautifully. The only modification being a set of Hogue grips that the previous owner put on.

Oh, I seem to remember reading that S&W provided the forged frames for Kimber 1911s. I don't know if that's true and I expect that neither company would confirm or deny it.

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It could be because they seem to have a propensity to change from the original design. The Walther PPK & PPK/S that they produced are not worth as much as Interarms models. Their 1911 pistols are not worth as much as Colt's. They make some fine firearms, others not so fine. If they were more true to original designs their guns would be worth more, and sell better.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:21 PM
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Well, after almost 100 posts, looks like a lot of love for the S&W 1911's to me.. The few neg posts are just that... you can't make all the people happy all the time ... it looks like most of the negs never even shot or handled a S&W 1911. Because there are a few changes from the original design, does not mean it's not as good. In fact, the opposite seems to be true. The few with bad experiences ... heck, I'll bet there are bad experiences with a Colt ... do a search.. that's just not a legit angle.

I live in Mass, so getting Colts, Kimbers, Wilsons, DW's or any other top name brands just is not in the cards thanks to our politicians.. I have a few of the mentioned brands, and can't say they are any better than my S&W's .. although my Dan Wesson Guardian 9mm Bobtail Commander ... is quite a gun... but it doesn't make my S&W 1911's any less of a great gun!
I love the "Colt needs gunsmithing to get to function" LOL, consider the source(s). Do they even own any?
I have 5 Colts that go bang every time.
I shoot my Colts regularly, they don't sit in my safe like other 45's. Plus, I can go online and order part IF they were needed, which they aren't.
The popularity of 1911 styles is self evident by continuing high sales.

Heck, a RIA goes bang every time right out of the box for less than 4 bills, no gunsmithing required.

1911 style guns aren't going away, ever, while other guns languish in safes.
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:47 PM
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I love the "Colt needs gunsmithing to get to function" LOL, consider the source(s). Do they even own any?
I have 5 Colts that go bang every time.
I shoot my Colts regularly, they don't sit in my safe like other 45's. Plus, I can go online and order part IF they were needed, which they aren't.
The popularity of 1911 styles is self evident by continuing high sales.

Heck, a RIA goes bang every time right out of the box for less than 4 bills.

1911 style guns aren't going away, ever, while other guns languish in safes.

I'm with ya, my point is, there is always someone's 1911 that does not function right.. can be from any of the manufacturers. I have 3 Colts left, a US gov from the 50's I believe, a 3" and a USGov 380, they all have ran fine. Of the couple I sold.. they ran fine.. but I still have the love for my Smiths...
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:03 PM
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S&W was too late to the Game for Me As I already scratched the 1911 itch several times (All Colts)


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Old 05-24-2017, 04:54 PM
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I'm with ya, my point is, there is always someone's 1911 that does not function right.. can be from any of the manufacturers. I have 3 Colts left, a US gov from the 50's I believe, a 3" and a USGov 380, they all have ran fine. Of the couple I sold.. they ran fine.. but I still have the love for my Smiths...
Love em' too.

Had a SC round butt, my brother commandered it a few years ago.
I sold my 1911PD because I had a deal on a Thunder Ranch model.."... but that fell thru and the PD gun was already gone.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:12 PM
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i have 2 1911pd's i got a good deal on both.they are very underrated.
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