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Old 06-06-2017, 08:36 AM
Blackbarry Blackbarry is offline
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Default CS45 Magazine Interchangability

Do the CS45 magazines fit any other S&W model like Shorty45 or 945 with a 3 1/4" barrel?
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:42 AM
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I can't answer your question, but I do know that the CS45 Mags are a little different due to the violent action of the small gun.

The other mags "may" not work in the CS45.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:46 AM
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The only other model that the CS45 magazines will fit is the early production 4513TSW. It has a cut out grip frame and uses a similar 6 round mag.

But I dont exchange mags between the two models. As Iggy pointed out the CS45 mags are unique with their indentations on either side to prevent a round from moving during recoil. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
The only other model that the CS45 magazines will fit is the early production 4513TSW. It has a cut out grip frame and uses a similar 6 round mag.

But I dont exchange mags between the two models. As Iggy pointed out the CS45 mags are unique with their indentations on either side to prevent a round from moving during recoil. Regards 18DAI
CS45 mags also work in a 4553TSW. It is the DAO version of a 4513TSW.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
The only other model that the CS45 magazines will fit is the early production 4513TSW. It has a cut out grip frame and uses a similar 6 round mag.

But I dont exchange mags between the two models. As Iggy pointed out the CS45 mags are unique with their indentations on either side to prevent a round from moving during recoil. Regards 18DAI
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CS45 mags also work in a 4553TSW. It is the DAO version of a 4513TSW.
Do remember that there was a forum member posting not that long ago about CS45 magazines not functioning properly in his pre-rail 4513TSW. I'm not sure there was any consensus or resolution to the member's issue so I'm just throwing it out there as a reminder that at least one person wasn't too happy with the performance of CS45 magazines in his early 4513TSW.
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:34 PM
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Many years ago I tried some of my CS45 magazines in my original 4513TSW, which used the same 6rd mag body, but without the secondary indentations that were incorporated into the CS45 magazines.

At that time I didn't experience consistently perfect feeding using them in the 4513TSW, meaning as reliable as when using the dedicated 4513 6rd mags, so I discontinued any further attempts, keeping my CS45 mags for my CS45, and my 6rd 4513TSW mags for my 4513TSW.

Now, when the CS45 was still a current production model (with its model-specific mags), and they were still ordering spare 6rd mags for the original 4513TSW (which had long since been replaced with the standard gripped version, which used 7-rd mags), you'd think that if they could've used just one version of the 6rd .45 mag for both models, they'd have done so. Instead, they continued to make the standard 6rd 4513TSW mag, along with the 6rd CS45 mag (with its additional indentations).

I noticed this well into the 2000's, as I occasionally continued to order spare .45 mags for my own guns (a CS45 and an original 4513TSW), and when receiving some boxes of new mags for agency use. One time they mistakenly shipped us a small box of brand new 6rd 4513TSW mags (meaning not CS45 mags), and another time, when they shipped us a large box of some extra 7 & 8rd .45 mags for our issued 4513/4566TSW's, there were a couple of new 6rd 4513TSW mags mixed in (again, not CS45 6rd mags). This was when they were concurrently still making CS45 6rd mags.

So, for my own use, I never mix the 2 different 6rd .45 mags in my CS45 and 4513TSW. I primarily bought them for off-duty weapons, and now retirement CCW's, so I prefer to use the designated mags for each model which uses the stubby 6rd mag body.

That's me, though.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:16 PM
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CS45 and TSW
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
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CS45 and TSW

Other than the butt plate, they look identical! Hmmmm.....?
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:53 PM
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No,indentations at top on CS45 to prevent top cartridge from coming out due to recoil of the lightweight CS45.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:54 PM
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On the CS45 mag in the left side of the picture, see that stamped verticle line above the first witness hole? There is a corresponding verticle line on the opposite side of the mag as well.

That is the major difference between the two otherwise similar mags. I do not interchange mine either. Murphy and all that. Regards 18DAI

Edited to add: oldman10mm addressed it already while I was typing.
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Last edited by 18DAI; 06-06-2017 at 08:55 PM. Reason: To add
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Old 06-06-2017, 10:36 PM
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CS45 magazine on the right in pic, and a 6rd 4513TSW mag on the left.



In the second pic, note the arrow pointing to the additional narrow/angled indentations at the rear of the standard (large, rectangular) pressed indentations in the CS45 mag. The arrow on the left mag (4513) points to the standard pressed lips of the current 45XX mags.



The butt plates for the older 6rd TSW mag is different than the CS45 mag (curved), but they both fit on either mag, since the only stated difference between the mag bodies was the narrow/angled secondary indentations.

Flat, original 4513TSW buttplate on a CS45 mag.


Curved buttplate common to the 6-rd CS45 and 7 & 8rd 457/4513/4566 mags.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:15 PM
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I took a couple of 4513TSW flat butt plates and installed them on my CS45 carry mags. The flat base feels better in my hand.

I don't care for having to wrap my pinkey underneath a baseplate.

Now I just need to put a set of Delrin grips on my CS45 and it will be perfect, for me. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:27 AM
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I have been trying to find the old flat bases but have had no luck.

Midway seems to be out of stock.
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:36 PM
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Last time I asked, I was told the company hadn't ordered the older, flat "original" 9/.45 TSW mag buttplates for a long time. They didn't have any listed in stock at any of the times I called to ask about them.
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Old 06-07-2017, 04:08 PM
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Ok, long term test report here...
3 years worth, anyway...

ZERO issues with any of my S&W .45acp mags
used in my CS45. None. Nada. Nothing.
Doesn't matter if they are 6-rd or 8-rd.
They all work just fine with standard range ammo.
I use WWB, Blazer Brass, & Perfecta as range ammo.

I do keep a Snug grip on it, so there is zero
chance of limp-wristing as well.

I honestly wonder if that little ridge was simply
a cure-all for couch potatoes who didn't have the
proper hand/wrist strength to hold the pistol
correctly when firing...

Or maybe it only happens with really hot ammo??
I may have to get some Buffalo Bore boxes,
or my Wifey's Hot Loads we're working up for
.45-SUPER conversions...might be worth a test
run of 50-100 of the superhot stuff??
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Old 06-07-2017, 04:46 PM
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Big Shrek, I agree 110% with everything you just said!
A firm grip makes 'em run right.

But please, don't run any "Hot-Rod" ammo through that sweet little aluminum framed CS45.
The hottest stuff I run through my CS40/45 is factory .40s&w.
That's "snappy" enough.
Hot rounds abuse the steel to aluminum interface of the barrel and frame, even with proper lubrication and enough spring.

John

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Old 06-07-2017, 06:13 PM
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Referring back to the poster of post #13 about flat bases,are these the ones ?

Magazine Buttplate, New Factory Original Gun Parts | 351960 | Numrich Gun Parts
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shrek View Post
Ok, long term test report here...
3 years worth, anyway...

ZERO issues with any of my S&W .45acp mags
used in my CS45. None. Nada. Nothing.
Doesn't matter if they are 6-rd or 8-rd.
They all work just fine with standard range ammo.
I use WWB, Blazer Brass, & Perfecta as range ammo.

I do keep a Snug grip on it, so there is zero
chance of limp-wristing as well.

I honestly wonder if that little ridge was simply
a cure-all for couch potatoes who didn't have the
proper hand/wrist strength to hold the pistol
correctly when firing...

Or maybe it only happens with really hot ammo??
I may have to get some Buffalo Bore boxes,
or my Wifey's Hot Loads we're working up for
.45-SUPER conversions...might be worth a test
run of 50-100 of the superhot stuff??
Remembering back to some conversations with a couple of the guys at the factory, when the CS45 was new, the additional indentations were added after the first batch of magazines had been produced. I was told they actually sent out that first batch to have the small indentations added by hand.

I was also told they had originally only tested 230 loads in the CS45, because that was what their marketing studies indicated was the most popular bullet weight among customers of defensive ammunition.

When I mentioned to one guy that I'd been using some +P in my CS45, he asked me how it had functioned, and said he was curious, because they'd not used it in their early testing.

It was too many years ago to remember all the test firing I was doing with my CS45 after I first got it (before I'd settled on using a few different 230gr JHP's), but I do remember that when I was first trying some of my TSW .45 mags in the CS45, and was experiencing some feeding issues, I was also still shooting some +P loads.

Slide velocity and recoil force can have an effect on feeding "timing", and it's not unusual to hear some folks shooting increasingly smaller .45's to report experiencing some feeding issues/stoppages at one time or another.

I've known a couple guys who could make a CS45 "choke" virtually on demand, and it seemed to involve their grip technique. Again, not exactly rare when you're talking about shooting really diminutive, hard recoiling .45's.

I do remember being told by one of the factory guys that the last minute decision to incorporate the additional narrow indentations in the CS45 mags was to help prevent the recoil of the little .45 from causing the top round to be displaced forward, jumping out from under the feed lips during the heavier recoil of the littlest .45 pistol. (This is a trick that S&W has used before, in larger magazines for a couple different models lines.)

For dedicated carry use, I'll continue to use the CS45-specific mags in my CS45, and not the other 6, 7 or 8rd 3rd gen .45 mags. I like to maximize the potential for optimal reliability in my carry guns.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:01 PM
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A pic showing Left,Right,and Baseplate differences.

I've got the same in process for the 7rd and 8rd 45s'.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:56 PM
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There were some CS45 magazines sold a couple of years ago that had the secondary indentions stamped very poorly. I could not believe it when I opened a brand new S&W plastic package and saw this. I had ordered six and sent them back immediately. Ordered six more from another supplier with the same result. I did not buy any more unless I could see photos of the indentions.
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:59 PM
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There were some CS45 magazines sold a couple of years ago that had the secondary indentions stamped very poorly. I could not believe it when I opened a brand new S&W plastic package and saw this. I had ordered six and sent them back immediately. Ordered six more from another supplier with the same result. I did not buy any more unless I could see photos of the indentions.
Same thing happened to me. In the last couple of months, too.

In my case the mags (on sale at a major online vendor) were shipped in retail/single mag packaging, and the poorly stamped indentation was on the side of the mag not visible the way it was packaged. Figures, right?

I had enough trouble with some early mags that had the hand-stamped secondary indentations unevenly stamped (height-wise to each other), which is when I was told that unevenly stamped notches could slow feeding due to the rising top round slowing to "wiggle" between the them. They replaced those early mags for me and another guy.

I obviously have no way to know that any of the many new ones that seem to have been unevenly stamped on one side would offer any feeding issues, but neither am I inclined to find out, and waste ammo doing so. I'll stick to the ones that are evenly and cleanly stamped.
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Old 06-09-2017, 07:39 AM
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The other 2 pics for 7 and 8 rd mags.

The CS45s' with the indentations have black followers,the 7rd and 8rd magazines with indentations have yellow followers.

Have OEM 45cal magazines ever been made in 'blue'(not SS) ?

I don't shoot 45acp nor do I have any S&W 45acp pistols and don't intent to acquire any. I collect the 45 mags to acquire 1 of each for reference purposes. Any that I have that are more than the '1' are sold to members looking for them.
Eventually I want to start a 1st,2nd,3rd gen magazine variance/identification thread. It'll contain 9mm single stack,9mm double stack,356TSW,40 single stack,40 double stack,10mm(not much variances except for the high capacity government mags),and 45acp. I've got the 9mm double stack and the 45acp done.
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:19 AM
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Heck, I'll even make it more confusing.

CS45 mags also work in Star M45's.
Which also means I use Star mags in my
CS45, just like the 45xx mags.
Makes range day pretty easy with them,
with 10 interchangeable mags

The Star's barrel is a half inch longer,
due to the controls being in the frame.
Which also make it a hair more precise,
as per my previous comparison post
last year

Star also used the S&W 59xx mags in it's
Firestar Plus M243 9mm, Model 28, 30, & 31,
and seems to have used other S&W mags for
standards in its other "Number" model productions.

Keltec also seems to have that bad 59xx habit,
with the P11 & Sub-2000 using them,
along with the Springfield XD compact &
the Marlin Camp 9

It's truly amazing what magazine compatibility
exists in the gun world!!
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:25 AM
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Crud, after posting that, suddenly I wonder
if the Star Baseplates will exchange with
the S&W's?? Because they use a FLAT
old-fashioned 1911-style metal plate,
which is far smaller than anything S&W used
and more concealable...

Well, there's my project for later today
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:29 AM
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Be sure and report back Big Shrek, the curved mag plate is the only thing I can find wrong with the CS45 experience. That's another avenue to explore.
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Old 06-10-2017, 12:21 PM
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The CS45 curved baseplate of post#19 is necessary. The narrow flat baseplates of the 8rd mags in post#22 also fit the CS45 mag but will show a 'space exposed' of the mag when inserted into a CS45. You won't like the 'look'. That 'thickness' of the curved baseplate covers/hides the part of the magazine that sticks out when the magazine is inserted/latched in the mag well.

The Star 45 mag well is deeper/longer.
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Old 06-10-2017, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
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Be sure and report back Big Shrek, the curved mag plate is the only thing I can find wrong with the CS45 experience. That's another avenue to explore.
I agree with you, Iggy.

The "finger rest" mag bases on the CS40/45 series do NOT align with ANY of MY fingers.

It may be easier said than done, but finding and installing the round base plates from the early, pre-rail 4513TSW cured the problem for me. (SEE post #19.)

John

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Old 06-10-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
The CS45 curved baseplate of post#19 is necessary. The narrow flat baseplates of the 8rd mags in post#22 also fit the CS45 mag but will show a 'space exposed' of the mag when inserted into a CS45. You won't like the 'look'. That 'thickness' of the curved baseplate covers/hides the part of the magazine that sticks out when the magazine is inserted/latched in the mag well.
...
There's another reason other than appearance for not using too thin (short) of a buttplate.

If an overly vigorous insertion of a mag occurs, with the slide locked back, and the mag body skips past the mag catch, the mag can be inserted too far. Not only will this cause a condition where rounds can't be fed and chambered, but the left side of the mag can hit the ejector. This can risk damaging the ejector.

You'll remember that S&W engineers used to use a "detent" cut in their extended 59XX & 69XX mags, which would help prevent similar excessive insertion of the mag bodies into the grip frame.
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Old 06-10-2017, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt View Post
You'll remember that S&W engineers used to use a "detent" cut in their extended 59XX & 69XX mags, which would help prevent similar excessive insertion of the mag bodies into the grip frame.
Not sure what you mean by a "detent" cut.

Please elaborate.

John
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Old 06-10-2017, 03:08 PM
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Well I can stand the curved bases. It does give me a pretty firm grip with all my fingers jammed in there above it..
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Old 06-10-2017, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHL View Post
Not sure what you mean by a "detent" cut.

Please elaborate.

John
There was a cut in the mag body, and a small curved notch pressed outward, creating a "detent" or "stop" which would hit the bottom of the mag well and prevent over insertion of the longer mag. Dunno when or how long they used that modification on the extended mags, but the ones I used to carry with my issued 5903 had them, and one extended mag I had for a personal 469, if I recall right (that was a long time ago).

An excellent pic was posted by bad_man_ one in an older forum thread, in post #30 - 5906 20 & 30 round magazines

Another older pic from Gunbroker.com - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/655226693
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:01 PM
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I believe over-insertion is/was something of a past problem and evidently the pistols internals have been changed to eliminate the situation. I have an old blue 59 20rd mag that has that external protrusion on the forward surface at the same location that the standard 59 mag is stopped by the baseplate.
The 6,7,& 8rd 45 mags have the mag catch slot at the same location. An 8rd mag will catch in a 7rd mag pistol with mag sticking out of the well. 7 & 8s' will catch in a 6rd mag pistol with mag sticking out of well.
59XX 9mm 15rd mags work in a 69XX 12rd pistol,catch is in same location.

45s' 6rd 7rd 8rd
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Old 06-11-2017, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman10mm View Post
I believe over-insertion is/was something of a past problem and evidently the pistols internals have been changed to eliminate the situation. I have an old blue 59 20rd mag that has that external protrusion on the forward surface at the same location that the standard 59 mag is stopped by the baseplate.
The 6,7,& 8rd 45 mags have the mag catch slot at the same location. An 8rd mag will catch in a 7rd mag pistol with mag sticking out of the well. 7 & 8s' will catch in a 6rd mag pistol with mag sticking out of well.
59XX 9mm 15rd mags work in a 69XX 12rd pistol,catch is in same location. ...
Well, the original style ejector had that sharp corner located on the bottom of the ejector tip, and the revised ejectors had the sharp corner replaced with a curve, which helped reduce the potential for a stress riser to develop (and longer tips, for faster ejection).

Getting rid of that sharp corner on the bottom of the tip might've helped mitigate the potential for breakage of the tip if mag over-insertion occurred due to overly exuberant mag insertion (with the slide locked back/open).

I remember the front detent cuts on my blued 59XX & 69XX mags.
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:04 PM
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Speaking of baseplates,

Single stack 40S&W (4013) and 10mm baseplates are useable on 45 mags. The latching hole to catch the springs' plate are all at the same location. The 40s',10s',and 45s' magazines are dimensionally close enough to work.
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Old 06-11-2017, 09:01 PM
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I ordered a couple of 10mm base plates.. We'll see how they work out.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:41 PM
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45 followers

Red followers are only for mags that don't have the vertical indentations.
Yellows followers are indicated for mags that are marked 'this magazine must have a yellow follower' and have the vertical indentations. They have 'slots' to accommodate the vertical indentations. yellow follower can be used with any variety of 45 mag.
Black followers have 'cutouts' on each side at back to allow use in mags with the vertical indentations. Like the yellow,can be used with any variety mag.
These are the only 3 varieties that I have ,so far,encountered.
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:06 PM
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Gonna look at magazine springs next. Free length,wire size,number of coils. Spring force can probably be measured with the 'fish weight' scales that I use for recoil spring evaluation.
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:44 PM
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That curve on the mag base never fit my hand either.
I took mine to a belt sander and now it feels fine.
I also took some off of the bottom to make them flat.
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:08 PM
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^^^ that agree. I'm surprised that more shooters haven't done that. Just because S&W thinks the baseplate is a good design doesn't mean that it actually is. We change revolver grips for better personalized fit,why not do it to curved baseplates !
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Old 06-14-2017, 05:39 PM
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If the bases I ordered don't work, I'm sure gonna do that.
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 45 View Post
That curve on the mag base never fit my hand either.
I took mine to a belt sander and now it feels fine.
I also took some off of the bottom to make them flat.
I tried that but found the radius of the front curve intruded into the depression on the mag bottom where the logo is impressed.
Made an uncomfortable notch for me.
Best solution I found was the round bases for the pre-rail 4513TSW.

John
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:17 PM
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I'm thinking about filling the depression with epoxy and then grinding to fit.
Meanwhile the search goes on.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
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I'm thinking about filling the depression with epoxy and then grinding to fit.
Meanwhile the search goes on.
That sounds like a "viable situation".

John
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Old 06-15-2017, 02:01 AM
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I have been carrying and shooting my CS45 using two rounded 4513TSW baseplates installed on CS45 mags.

I had very good accuracy, albeit with a tendency to group slightly right of POA.

Monday I was at an outdoor range and forgot to bring my CS45 mags with the 4513TSW bases on them. So I used a new CS45 mag with the finger lift. Surprisingly every group was centered perfectly. It was VERY easy to place shots on multiple targets with precision.

But the feel of the gun was not as pleasant and my fingers felt.........squeezed on the grip. So, I have the rounded baseplate mags back in it tonight. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:54 AM
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I have had the same experience.. My fingers feel crowded, but I shoot just fine.

I'm curious to see what the different bases do, but may wind up back with the curved bases.

What the heck it gives me an excuse to "play" with my new gun and keeps me out of the bars.
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:16 AM
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I carry a CS 45, and buy only magazines for it. I keep a 4513 TSW by the bed. I only buy magazines for it. I never try and mix magazines. There are guns that take other gun magazines. I have had some. With handguns I usually stick with the magazine made for that handgun.
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:24 PM
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I might mess with base plates and grips, but I ain't as smart as the folks that put these guns together..

I may be a wizard with barbed wire, but I'll leave the gun business to them that built them.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:00 PM
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This thread made it into the Smith-Wesson forum weekly newsletter 'The Ampersand'.
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:24 PM
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Is that good or bad?
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Old 06-16-2017, 04:22 PM
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An answer of sorts. I got two of the flat magazine bases for 10MM guns to try on the mags of my CS45.

Well they fit, but, the part of the curved bases that come on the CS45 bases that extend up the sides of the magazine cover a gap between the gun and the bottom of the magazine.

In other words, the 10mm flat bases leave a 1/4" gap between the bottom of the grips and the base.

Also, the part of the flat base plate that sticks out in front of the magazine is the same height and length as the curved one, thus your pinky finger is pushed out to the same position as it would be with the curved base plate.

I'll try to get a picture up a little later.
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