It will join a small, but extremely close-knit family of Smith DA/SA autos:



Been a lurker here for a while. Figure it's time to start chiming in. Pretty much everything I know about Smith autos came from reading this forum.

As for the 4516-2...

Been looking for the perfect compact(ish) DA/SA .45 for a while. Thought I'd found it in the Sig P245. Shot great for me, but ran into minor FTF issues. Same story with the Beretta Cougar. Found the HK .45 compacts (45c and USPc) to be reliable, just never felt right in my hands.

The 4516 had been on my radar for a while, and after happening upon the 645 (total impulse buy; totally awesome), I was pretty much sold on the getting its little brother. Managed to find a -2 lurking in the dark, forgotten recesses of Armslist. Pulled the trigger ASAP.

I already ordered a few things for it... including the dual/nested recoil springs, which I realize have been difficult to come by in recent years. Apparently, this company (Sprinco USA, Recoil Reducers) is currently producing them. Anyone have experience with these? Figured I might as well get a set while they're available.

Also ordered the Hogue grips and a new magazine... black follower.

One question... did any 4516-2s come with yellow follower mags? Not sure what mine will have, but I wanted to have the most up to date.

Anyway, really looking forward to getting this one. I've yet to be disappointed by a Smith DA/SA auto, and I'm fairly confident this one will hit it out of the park--something about an all steel gun just makes sense to me.

Will post shooting impressions when I can. In the meantime, any thoughts or insights are appreciated.

Thanks.

Matt

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Well, I really like mine. Bought it as new in 1995, and have put
every mark and blemish on it myself. Carried it it for years, and
always was happy with it in that roll. Kinda heavy, but not that
bad. (Don't carry it anymore though.)
As you can see, I did "ruin" it by replacing the hammer, but it
can go back to factory in no time.
It has always shot extremely well, and perfect.
You're gonna like yours too.

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Nice. Glad to hear you've had a good experience with yours. Still a nice lookin piece... spurred hammer and all. Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to having a spur on mine. Nice to have the option to thumb cock.

'95 must have been pretty early in the -2 run. When did the -1s stop?

@1992-@1999, stolen from Member 18DAI's wonderful post,
here. (For the 4516-2's.)
You should look it up and read all about the 4516's, in all there
different stages. Great learning experience.
Thanks again 18DAI for your post,(s.

LOVE MINE. Its my favorite 45 semi auto (over the 4506, 4513TSW, CS45D, etc)

Mine came with 3 yellow follower mags in the box. It also was special ordered with a 4506 with front slide serrations that you typically see on a 1911 or Performance Center semi auto. Enjoy it!

PS: The alien gear cloack tuck and 4013 shell fits it perfect.

SVT28

Congrats on your 4516-2! Fine compact 45. I was shooting mine today. 300 rounds fired accurately and malfunction free. As usual.

The 4516-2s shipped with the black followers in the mags. But like all variants of the 4516, they will eat anything out of any of the mags made for 4516s, red/yellow/black.

But for serious purpose only black follower mags should be used.

Enjoy that fine 45! Regards 18DAI

Thanks for the kind words 4T5GUY.

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

You know what, 18DAI is correct. I just double checked my mags and all of them have black followers. My bad!

18DAI is to blame for a lot of 3rd. gen .45's bought......here is another....It is also the only pistol I still have rubber Hogues on..

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the factory dual nested spring availability is spotty at best and the Springco iterations work great......but after about 1000 rounds of 230 gr. ball ammo my Glock flatwire spring pioneered by BMCM still works flawless..

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Thanks for all the insights, guys. Really appreciate it. I've actually read through many of 18DAI's posts over the years, and I've learned a lot. Appreciate the detailed distinctions between the no dash, -1 and -2... figured it made the most sense to hold out for a -2, given the improvements to the recoil spring system and the recontoured feed ramp. Honestly, I like the svelte look of the no dash (and I recall that 18DAI has had excellent luck with one particular example) but I really couldn't find anything negative on the -2s... so I figured that was the best bet. Plus, the extended beavertail looks pretty cool.

I had always kinda hoped one of those -3s would show up somewhere... but I've never seen one on gunbroker or anywhere else.

One thing about reliability...

I've noticed my 645 has a very high feed angle, with the rounds canted upwards toward the chamber. That gun has reputation for feeding anything, and I can see why. Does the 4516 retain that trait?

My P245s and my Cougar both had more of a "crash the round straight into the feed ramp" setup (more like a 1911) and--lo and behold--I had a few FTFs with each. To be fair, one of my P245s was 100% when I used the revised magazines. One wasn't. With the original magazines, neither could make it more than a few mags without choking.

I too had a P245 and while it choked once.......once was enough..............besides it felt top heavy in my hand and could never warm up to it.....so away it went.....and the guy I sold it to called several days after the sale and wanted to know if I wanted it back......

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Yeah. I'm not too tolerant of jams either. I really did like the way the P245 shot. It was dead on for me. The magazines for the P220 compact incorporated a "dimple" to hold rounds in place while the gun cycled, and that made a world of difference in the P245.

But even so, I still had an issue with the "good" magazine. And man... did that gun smash those rounds hard into the feed ramp. I'd get bullet setback after just a few chamberings.

Shipped quick. Very happy with the look and feel, overall. Here's some glamour shots:

image1.jpg

image2.jpg

The thing is just cool. Something about a compact .45 intrinsically appeals to me. Big hole. Short barrel. All business. Dressed in all stainless with that beefy brick-__ithouse of slide... the 4516 looks the part better than any, in my opinion.

Plus... my cat loves it.

It came with 3 mags (bonus). Two with black followers. One yellow.

Serial is VCA27XX. It does not have the MIM hammer. So I guess it's not one of the latest -2s.

IT DID have the trigger click issue. But I pushed on that little leaf spring (trigger positioning spring?) and it cleared it up without too much trouble. So that's pretty cool.

Trigger feels nice. Fairly heavy, but smooth and crisp. DA is very consistent, with no stacking--typical Smith. I hand cycled a few mags through it, feeding and ejection were very smooth and positive. I'm glad to see that the 4516 keeps the high feed angle, which--in my experience--is a big advantage to reliable feeding.

One minor concern...

The there's a slight gap between the bushing and the slide--like it's not pushed in all the way:

image3.jpg

image4.jpg

Any insight on this?

I'm inclined to think it's a non-issue... but theoretically, I guess, it could affect how the end of the barrel locks up. Do these things ever work loose? FWIW, there's no gap on my 645 and 6904.

Anyway, not having shot it yet, I really like it. Should be able to get to the range Saturday. I have Hogue grips, a new mag, and fresh recoil springs on the way, all of which should arrive by then.

18DAI has a lot of experience and likes the best of S&W. When he tells you about one he likes, you not only like but want one. So, got a 4516-2 coming.

Thank you RedCardinal for the kind words. And congrats on your new 4516-2!!

Your experience equals mine and I know you have some very fine examples of S&W 3rd gen 45s to compare the 4516-2 against. I think you will find it stacks up very well indeed.

Even against the Performance Center guns. And I can tell you, from experience, that it holds its own against some VERY expensive compact 45s from other manufacturers too.

I was working at the local indoor range a few weeks back and had the occasion to shoot my LE 4516 up next to a Nighthawk compact and a Dan Wesson CCO. My 4516 shot groups just as tiny as the Dan Wesson and was almost as accurate as the Nighthawk. Which cost about $2500 more than what I paid for the 4516. Much to the disgust of the owners of the other guns.

With my other part time job in the local high end gunshop, every day is a gunshow, for me. I get to examine and shoot many high end pistols. Including some ridiculously high priced 1911s and botique guns. And shooting 50 to 100 rounds a day, four or five days a week, I have observed a lot of things and tuned up my own shooting skills.

I have found that while my favorite and most carried gun is still the original production 4513TSW, the guns I consistantly shoot most accurately are all steel 45s. And of those, my 4516s perform best, for me.

MattyD380, I dont think that barrel bushing is a problem, yet. Should it continue to work its way out, it will become one. I would hope that BMCM or FastBolt will see your post and be along to advise you further on it. I know that the barrel bushing was always a factory install and repair.

But I would be hesitant to send it to the current company calling itself S&W. I would seekout a qualified local gunsmith and let them take a look at it. Good luck! And I look forward to both yours and RedCardinals range reports! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Really appreciate the feedback, 18.

I've had my -2 out twice now, have around 300 rounds through it with no issues. The gun has me convinced it's reliable.

Here are some 50(ish) round groups at 10 yards:

image1.jpg
PMC 230 FMJ

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Federal 230 FMJ

image2.jpg
Range reman 230 FMJ

I mentioned in another post that it was grouping a little left. Tight groups. Just a little left. But when I tried the cheapo reman stuff from the range... groups centered right up.

I think it might be because the recoil is softer with the reman, and I'm just able to control it better. Once I get the handall sleeve (or some other kind of grip) I think my control will improve substantially with all ammo.

Crazy thought: Could a CS45 grip from KSD be adapted to fit a 4516? It would obviously have gaps near the bottom. And the grip screw is in the wrong place. But if you drilled a new hole... would it work?

Interesting you mentioned sending it in to Smith & Wesson. I was thinking about doing that... just to get a general tune up and an action job. I figure they might be able to replace the bushing. Thought about having them bead blast it too. So you wouldn't recommend that?

About the bushing...

I actually pushed it in (muzzle against the countertop, leaned on it) so it was flush. It worked its way out again when I shot it the second time. Another poster mentioned that there was rim/ledge in there that would prevent it from coming out. Doesn't appear to be any farther out than it was after shooting it the first time.

Brass to the face...

I had also mentioned that it chucked some brass in my face. Noticed it once or twice yesterday. But I suspect it might be launching straight up, and bouncing off the ceiling. I shot one handed to see if I could get a sense of the ejection pattern... noticed a few going straight up. Then I noticed a few, like, spontaneously at eye level... could tell for sure if they were bouncing off the ceiling, but seems a likely possibility.

Congrats! Looking forward to the report.

MattyD380 I would send it to Novak's in Parkersberg WV or contact our own BMCM and let him take a look at it.

Karl Sokol at Chestnut Mountain Sports is another excellent gunsmith who works on 3rd gen guns. Hope this helps! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Thanks you, sir. Appreciate the suggestions. I've heard great things about Novak's, with regard to 3rd gens. Their website doesn't list gunsmithing services currently... but I'll give them a call anyway. Also read a few posts about Karl Sokol. Good things. Wouldn't be opposed to having BMCM look at it also. All good options.

Thanks again, and I will update what I decide to do.

That's a really neat 4516 you found lurking in the dark.

Thanks. I think "the dark" is pretty much the only place to look these days for decent 3rd gen guns.

"Not currently taking new orders for custom work."

Or something to that effect.

Just curious...

What is the concern with having S&W do custom work? Do they just do a bad job? Or is there some other reason not to trust them.

Thanks.

They no longer support the 3rd gen guns. So much for their "lifetime warranty".

A couple of years back, a friend here called and asked if they would do some work on a 4516-1. I cant recall the problem he was having. Anyways, it was an LE gun. And they told him to buy an m&p instead.

So, no. I dont think they would be of any assistance to you. And AFAIK, Vito was the last 3rd gen gunsmith there. He retired a couple of years ago.

Try Karl Sokol. Good luck! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Makes perfect sense to me. Thanks.

I will give Karl a call after the holiday.

Speaking of which... happy 4th, everyone.

I am an original purchaser of a Model 411, and S&W did a warranty repair for me last month! May be different if one is not the original purchaser.

The warranty is/was afaik for defects in material and workmanship only. It was never all inclusive.
Many people, including me, have gotten a gun replaced for a defect. I, a 642 with a cracked frame. I was at least the 3rd owner of that gun.
And if they didn't have a 642 I could have had a number of other guns, free.

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Sure you did

Ahh, makes sense.

Maybe got lucky. I sent a 4006 back because of a lousy trigger. S&W smith Vito called me and asked who had worked on it
(screwed it up). I admitted I had tried to smooth it out myself.

It came back with a trigger like silk and at no charge. Love my 3rd. Gens.