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Old 06-20-2017, 12:23 AM
skjos skjos is offline
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Default S&W 4006TSW California Highway Patrol (CHP) Information

The California Highway Patrol (CHP) is the largest state police agency in the nation and they have begun the 2.5 year process of switching over their 2006-2007 era 4006TSW to the M&P Gen 1 platform. As the 4006TSW’s are replaced they will become available for public purchase, with the first batch of pistols being offered in June 2017.




4006TSW (CHP) Features
Integral rail – in lieu of the riveted on rail used by most 4006TSW's, the CHP specified an integral rail.

Decock-only safety lever (spring loaded) – this keeps the firearm in a ready to fire state. The decocker body is unique in that it does not have a hole for the safety lever plunger/spring. Instead, the body has an indent on the far side that a plunger installed under the rear sight clicks into. If the decocker lever spring ever fails the decocker can be manipulated to operate as a manual safety.



Bobbed hammer – this prevents thumb cocking, and was specified as a safety measure to reduce negligent discharges by inadequately trained officers.

No trigger play spring - reduces maintenance associated with replacing a non-essential part of the trigger mechanism.



Scalloped front strap - if a magazine failed to drop freely the scallop at the bottom of the front strap could be used to manually strip the magazine from the pistol.

Machined barrel recess - this feature is machined just forward of the feed ramp and seems unique to the CHP pistols; its purpose is unclear at this time.



Magazine disconnect - the trigger will not operate the hammer unless the magazine is installed. This safety feature can reduce negligent discharges, and can be used to disable the firearm if there is a risk of losing it during a physical confrontation.

Non-alloy recoil guide rod - increase guide rod robustness and service life.

No night sights - To remedy this odd omission on a duty gun, many officers would place photo luminescent paint on the front sight and charge it during low light patrols by blasting it with a flashlight while the pistol was holstered.

Unique serial number - Unique serial number - All pistols have a CHPxxxx serial number. A forum member who works within the CHP as a gunsmith reported that the serial number range is CHP1018 – CHP908A. However, a serial number has been observed slightly below this range (CHP1009).




Typical TSW Features:
Tighter frame-to-slide fit - the frame and slide were produced as a matched set; the tighter tolerances reduce the amount of vertical slide movement during recoil.

Oversize frame and slide rails - increased robustness relative to the pistols non-TSW counterpart.

Delayed lock time – this keeps the barrel and slide together longer reducing stress applied to the frame, extending the gun’s life.

Loaded chamber indicator - a small hole in the back of the barrel hood allows for visual confirmation of a loaded round.


History
The Smith and Wesson initial contract with CHP was for 9,736 units, with deliveries to take place over a 1.5 year period starting in June of 2006. The CHP paid $683 per unit, but received a $170 credit for each of the older (early 1990’s) 4006 turned in.

There was some controversy over the no-bid contract awarded to S&W. SigArms had a competing bid to replace the agency’s weapons with the Sig P229 for 40% less than what was granted to S&W.



The first 3,000 guns delivered were reworked to replace the sear, and there was some quality control issues noted on the first deliveries including failure to feed and the slide locking back prior to the last round, these were resolved with updated springs.


Parts List



Part Commonality
The following list shows those parts that are common with other 4006 models. This is strictly based on Smith and Wesson part numbers, other parts may be compatible.



Ready to Purchase?
A majority of the 9,900ish units will become available to the public during the transition, however those past their serviceable life or purchased by agency officers will reduce the overall quantity. While this may seem like a lot of pistols this is a fraction of the total number of 4006’s produced and only one of four models with an integral frame rail, the others being 4566TSW, 5906TSW, and 5946(-M).

The following pictures illustrate what you can expect to receive; I ordered three pistols so this should be a good representation of the average condition. None of these pistols were cleaned, they are exactly as I received them.

Packaging:


Left Side:


Right Side:


Barrel Wear, including a manufacturing anomaly at the end of the barrel. The CHP received many of the barrels with this irregularity, it does not impact the function of the pistol.:

CHP4082


Hammer mark on the frame:




Magazines (five of nine marked "RESTRICTED: EXPORT, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND GOVERNMENT USE ONLY", three of nine had numbers inked on the back - I assume this is an unofficial means of tracking the magazines).

You may receive a magazine with a red bottom, this indicates it was used for live fire training; black bottom magazines were used for patrol duty and cycled yearly:





These pistols are currently going for a great price, and I would anticipate that they will appreciate once the supply has dried up. If you have any additional information please share it and I will update this post. Most of the information I have collected so far was gleaned from the internet, so it may not be as accurate as it could be... yet.

Last edited by skjos; 10-10-2017 at 10:53 PM. Reason: Added CHP1009 (E1009)
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:38 AM
Sevens Sevens is offline
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That's a fantastic post. One small nitpick and one question.

First, it sure isn't the trigger return spring that is missing, it is the trigger play spring. It's more than obvious that you know that, this was just a typo.

My question: is the CHP the largest single LE Org in the Nation? I always thought that was the NYPD but I have absolutely no idea. It would seem to make sense that even though NYC is the largest city in the world, it certainly isn't larger than the State of California.

Oh, one more comment. With ZERO intention of sounding like I have never cared for the TSW pistols... it simply doesn't seem like spending MILLIONS to upgrade from a 4006 to a 4006TSW just isn't much of an upgrade. I would think when you throw that massive amount of money at something, you'd be making a large-scale change. Such as moving from a DA/SA metal gun to current technology polymer striker fire. This move I understand. But millions to move to the TSW from the 4006? That's sounds nutty to me.

Of course it isn't real money, it's taxpayer funded, so maybe I have answered my own question... (sigh)

But yeah, fantastic post!
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
That's a fantastic post. One small nitpick and one question.

First, it sure isn't the trigger return spring that is missing, it is the trigger play spring. It's more than obvious that you know that, this was just a typo.

My question: is the CHP the largest single LE Org in the Nation? I always thought that was the NYPD but I have absolutely no idea. It would seem to make sense that even though NYC is the largest city in the world, it certainly isn't larger than the State of California.

Oh, one more comment. With ZERO intention of sounding like I have never cared for the TSW pistols... it simply doesn't seem like spending MILLIONS to upgrade from a 4006 to a 4006TSW just isn't much of an upgrade. I would think when you throw that massive amount of money at something, you'd be making a large-scale change. Such as moving from a DA/SA metal gun to current technology polymer striker fire. This move I understand. But millions to move to the TSW from the 4006? That's sounds nutty to me.

Of course it isn't real money, it's taxpayer funded, so maybe I have answered my own question... (sigh)

But yeah, fantastic post!
The 4006s had reached the end of their service life.
The agency was satisfied with them.
They could replace (as opposed to upgrade) the aging 4006s with 4006TSWs without having to retrain anyone.
That's a pretty big cost savings, right there.
It all makes sense when you follow the money.

John
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:00 AM
akguy1985 akguy1985 is offline
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Thank you for your post. Very informative
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:49 AM
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The CHP is the largest state police agency in the US with about 9,000 sworn. NYSP is second with 4,600. New York PD is the largest police agency in the US with 37,800, followed by Chicago PD with 13,600.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:20 AM
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Great post, Steve. Good of you to put all this together and include the photos of the ones you received. That integral rail is what all of the TSW's should have had, but since they didn't, it's nice that it makes these guns special.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:37 AM
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Thank you for your interesting post. It's a bit sad to see the CHP moving away from their 4006s to M&Ps. In the back of my mind somewhere there is a little voice that whispers plastic guns will always just seem like over-rated Saturday Night Specials. But, I am happy CHP at least was able to stay with a U.S.-made gun and hope the M&P works out for them.

Nice looking 4006s you received.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:17 AM
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Training costs to transition officers is very expensive. Going from a traditional DA/SA to a striker fired system will take a good bit of training and ammunition.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:19 AM
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Very good post!!! You might want to update your serial number range as I have CHP9969. So do I have one of the last ones made?
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:48 AM
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I have updated the post based on inputs.

CHP9969 would be close to the last ones made, the highest serial number I have observed is CHP661A, which I assume is unit 10,661.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
...
Oh, one more comment. With ZERO intention of sounding like I have never cared for the TSW pistols... it simply doesn't seem like spending MILLIONS to upgrade from a 4006 to a 4006TSW just isn't much of an upgrade. I would think when you throw that massive amount of money at something, you'd be making a large-scale change. Such as moving from a DA/SA metal gun to current technology polymer striker fire. This move I understand. But millions to move to the TSW from the 4006? That's sounds nutty to me.
...
The reason for the replacement of the M4006 pistols was because the heavily used guns were nearing the expected end of their anticipated service-life. The original guesstimates for how much use each of the original M4006 series guns would receive ended up falling short of the actual round counts experienced. (I was told by one of their weapons officers, a longtime friend, that there were actually something like 4 series of the original design 4006's ordered over the years, as increasingly more guns were needed, internally tracked as A-D series models by the agency.)

The improved machining, tighter tolerances and overall design changes in the TSW series resulted in .40 S&W guns that had a much longer expected service life than the original 4006 design.

The 4006TSW's were expected to last at least 50% longer than the original 4006's. Before they started ordering the new guns, representative 4006TSW's were subjected to extensive T&E shooting by CHP SWAT, and the TSW's demonstrated not only better durability, but maintained better inherent accuracy even after heavy use.

The 4006TSW's (and the much smaller allocation of 4013TSW's used by officers assigned to their plainclothes details) are probably not yet half way through their normally anticipated service lives, but there finally came a time when the agency decided to adopt a lighter .40 duty weapon, and the replacement is the M&P 40 (original model, not the 2.0). The M&P 40c started replacing the 4013TSW's sometime starting approx a couple years ago (after testing and review of other small plastic .40's).
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethang View Post
Training costs to transition officers is very expensive. Going from a traditional DA/SA to a striker fired system will take a good bit of training and ammunition.
While I haven't asked about the transition program used, the CHP has never been an agency to "short" their people when it comes to training, and especially firearms training.

The average officer (post academy) will shoot monthly, on average, and for score every 90 days. That doesn't take into account any additional training that may occur, or any required qualification/training that may occur if an officer is assigned to an outside agency/multi-agency task force/detail (homicide, narcotics, vehicle theft, etc). For example, I knew CHP officers on loan to a couple of local task forces, and they had to shoot not only for their own agency (field office) requirements, but with the other task force agents, as well (who did more quals and training than other regular positions in their respective agencies).

I imagine it's increased since then, but back in '05 the CHP was buying 5 millions rounds of duty pistol ammunition annually.
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:24 PM
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Well I love the wealth of "insider" information and I also duly note that a typical .40cal pistol is more prone to wear than a typical 9mm or .45 pistol, but with that said, I'm chomping at the bit to hear some estimated round counts of what it takes (in the eyes of an agency armorer and/or procurement head) to approach the "end of service life" of an all-steel, full-size 3rd Gen.

I'll repeat, a .40 S&W chambered duty pistol should rationally have a shorter lifespan than a 9mm or .45cal counterpart, but I would expect the number to be HIGH.

So if we look at what has been discussed here (admittedly I am going from memory and not scrolling up) but these TSW's were put in to service when, around 11 years ago? And every specimen seemingly being released for public sale so far seems to show precious little use?

How many years did they use the 4006 before they went for the TSW's?

An alloy frame... it's "game on" for wear and possible life. But I suppose I am in the camp of folks who REALLY wants to see what a worn out full-size steel frame 3rd Gen looks like, because I haven't had the pleasure of seeing one yet.

And I try my best not to be overly skeptical all the time, but when it comes to government spending, my default is to raise an eyebrow. Absolutely, our sworn officers need solid equipment, I would never suggest otherwise. And while I only have the pleasure of owning two formerly issued 3rd Gens and that makes my tangible experience basically meaningless...

Bottom line: somebody show me some CHP 4006's (not these new TSW's) that are too old, too beat-up, and in need of being replaced.

If we think that integral rail 3rd Gens are a scarce beast, show me some end-of-life all-steel 3rd Gens, because I say those are far more scarce.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:14 PM
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Okay, quick math that is barely relevant but still stands out:

5 millions rounds of ammo annually and current discussion suggests "about" 10,000 CHP 4006TSW's in the 2006 procurement. That suggests 500 rounds annually per pistol if all were being used equally. We can all agree that NOT all were being used.

Maybe HALF were being used? Maybe 3/4? So perhaps a thousand rounds annually, on average? So we can say a thousand rounds annually... or even two thousand rounds annually? Over 11 years, that's significant use, if a realistic average. I could see a large (and WELL funded) agency replacing issued guns with 20,000 or 25,000 rounds through them. I'd expect some original bits need replaced at that point... but then again, these are routinely and professionally cared for by professionals, too.

I bet even the worst of the replaced non-TSW 4006 CHP guns have a generation or two of fantastic life left in them.

On a totally unrelated side-swipe, has anyone else mentioned how mildly shocking it is that a California Government agency is allowing regular American citizens to -GASP- purchase their handguns?! And I wonder, are these "on roster" and legal for re-import in to the land of fruit & nuts?
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:59 PM
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Speaking of California, I have a holster being made by one of the Forum members who lives there. He said, starting next year, in order to buy ammo, you will have to register at your local store. He didn't go into what all it entails, but I guess no more popping down to an outdoor store and picking some up on your way to the range. Wait a minute, do they even still have ranges out there?
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Well I love the wealth of "insider" information and I also duly note that a typical .40cal pistol is more prone to wear than a typical 9mm or .45 pistol, but with that said, I'm chomping at the bit to hear some estimated round counts of what it takes (in the eyes of an agency armorer and/or procurement head) to approach the "end of service life" of an all-steel, full-size 3rd Gen....
Sending you a PM, if you're interested.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
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Okay, quick math that is barely relevant but still stands out:

5 millions rounds of ammo annually and current discussion suggests "about" 10,000 CHP 4006TSW's in the 2006 procurement. That suggests 500 rounds annually per pistol if all were being used equally. We can all agree that NOT all were being used.

Maybe HALF were being used? Maybe 3/4? So perhaps a thousand rounds annually, on average? So we can say a thousand rounds annually... or even two thousand rounds annually? Over 11 years, that's significant use, if a realistic average. I could see a large (and WELL funded) agency replacing issued guns with 20,000 or 25,000 rounds through them. I'd expect some original bits need replaced at that point... but then again, these are routinely and professionally cared for by professionals, too.

I bet even the worst of the replaced non-TSW 4006 CHP guns have a generation or two of fantastic life left in them.

On a totally unrelated side-swipe, has anyone else mentioned how mildly shocking it is that a California Government agency is allowing regular American citizens to -GASP- purchase their handguns?! And I wonder, are these "on roster" and legal for re-import in to the land of fruit & nuts?
The average round fired by an average officer was originally guesstimated to be 1200rds annually, but that figure turned out to be a low ball figure.

They kept having to order increasingly more 4006's as they hired more officers, so it's not like lots of guns were just sitting in storage.

Many guns ended up being issued to more than one officer, or being taken through the academy by more than one officer, and the number of rounds fired during an academy is ... significant.

Unplanned outside training and other assignments could also introduce unexpected demands against an expected service life (kind of like frequently taking long, unplanned road trips can add wear to your tires).
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Old 06-21-2017, 10:42 PM
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First, thanks for all the great information. A couple of questions about the CHP issued weapons. All of the pictures I seen so far show the pistols with the factory polymer grips, should I figure that a set of rubber grips (Smith and Wesson branded) would have been added by an individual officer? Fastbolt mentioned that the original 4006ís were acquired in four purchases, and tracked within the agency as series A-D. The example that I saw had an engraved number on the barrel, slide, and receiver, beginning with the letter E followed by the numerical portion of the serial number. Would it be reasonable to guess that these pistols would have been in the first purchase, after the original acquisitions?
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:14 PM
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So far in all the pictures I have seen, the 4006TSW CHP's have had the "E" prefix including one in the "A" suffix range, which I am assuming was produced after CHP0001 - CHP9999. The one 4013 CHP I saw had an "S" prefix.
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:46 AM
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Aside from learning of the replacements for the 4013/4006TSW's, I haven't kept up on any day-to-day developments with anyone from the CHP for the last few years.

Grip changes are often something authorized by agencies (like mine), with the restriction that it must be approved by the appropriate person, and it's installed by an agency armorer or an approved armorer/gunsmith. Things can easily vary from one agency to the next, of course.
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Old 06-22-2017, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Okay, quick math that is barely relevant but still stands out:

5 millions rounds of ammo annually and current discussion suggests "about" 10,000 CHP 4006TSW's in the 2006 procurement. That suggests 500 rounds annually per pistol if all were being used equally. We can all agree that NOT all were being used.

Maybe HALF were being used? Maybe 3/4? So perhaps a thousand rounds annually, on average? So we can say a thousand rounds annually... or even two thousand rounds annually? Over 11 years, that's significant use, if a realistic average. I could see a large (and WELL funded) agency replacing issued guns with 20,000 or 25,000 rounds through them. I'd expect some original bits need replaced at that point... but then again, these are routinely and professionally cared for by professionals, too.

I bet even the worst of the replaced non-TSW 4006 CHP guns have a generation or two of fantastic life left in them.

On a totally unrelated side-swipe, has anyone else mentioned how mildly shocking it is that a California Government agency is allowing regular American citizens to -GASP- purchase their handguns?! And I wonder, are these "on roster" and legal for re-import in to the land of fruit & nuts?
From the California State Auditor Report (Jan 2008):

"In its November 2007 communication with us, the CHP also addressed the useful life of its previous handgun. The CHP calculated that each field officer and sergeant fired an average of 800 rounds of ammunition each year and stated that this average equated to a 22-year total service life for each handgun. In its weapons unit memo dated December 2005, the CHP based its average of 800 rounds of ammunition fired annually on its purchase of 5 million rounds of ammunition each year. The CHP also stated that many of its handguns are used to fire 1,200 rounds of ammunition per year rather than the 800-round average and that many handguns would thus reach the end of their useful life in three years. Our calculation shows that at the 1,200-round level, the handguns would reach the end of their useful life in 4.6 years, not three."

11 years x 800 rounds average = 8,800 rounds
11 years x 1200 rounds high-use = 13,200 rounds

"useful life" in this report was for the older 4006's...

22 years at 800 round level = 17,600 rounds

17,600 seems like a low number for an all steel handgun that is being properly maintained.

I heard somewhere that some of the academy 4006TSW's had logged more than 100,000 rounds.

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Old 06-23-2017, 08:25 PM
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Thanks for the answers to the questions about the grips and serial numbers. The agency that I retired from had a similar policy about replacement grips. In all probability, the rubber grips were installed by the officer, whom the gun was issued to, from a list of approved makers. The serial numbering seems like an interesting path for future research. It might be worth contacting the CHP to see if any records of acquisitions and disposals of the pistols could be obtained. If they are available, we might be able to get some idea of when a specific gun was acquired, issued, and released from inventory. I think that would be an interesting addition for those wanting to know a little bit of the history of the pistol they now own.
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:14 PM
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I just got one of the CHP guns and it was really clean not used hard at all . took it out to fire tonight ran perfect , but the right side safe decock gone . now what ?????????
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:55 AM
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Am I the only one that finds the lack of night sights on a duty gun odd? Even if it's outfitted with a light. Night sights are huge in the hours when it's transitions from light to dark. Also if you don't want to give away your position with a light but still want to see what you are aiming at.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:59 AM
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He said, starting next year, in order to buy ammo, you will have to register at your local store. He didn't go into what all it entails, but I guess no more popping down to an outdoor store and picking some up on your way to the range. Wait a minute, do they even still have ranges out there?
Wrong... ammo sellers will need to be registered as an ammo vendor, CA residents will only be able buy ammo from a registered "vendor".

No more ordering cheap ammo online and having shipped to your home, no buying ammo while traveling out of state and bringing it back into CA with you.

We'll still be able to "pop down" to an sporting goods store or gun shop and buy ammo in the way to a range, as long as they are a registered vendor.

And yes... we still have ranges here.
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Old 06-24-2017, 11:30 AM
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Private message sent to OP.

Hopefully both of my messages went through.

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Old 06-24-2017, 02:13 PM
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Conrad, Sorry if I let my mouth(fingers) run away from my brain. It just seems like you people in California are constantly having your rights taken away. You can look in the for sale section and look at the posts that will not sell to anyone in California. I shouldn't have said what I did, and I apologize.
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Old 06-24-2017, 04:40 PM
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Those guns are a great deal. I would not be worried at all about them wearing out,They are very durable. reminds me of the California State Park ranger guns that they replaced with M&Ps about 10 years ago. They had some nice engraving work too
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:34 PM
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Great info in this thread, and skjos I am jealous of your 3 guns! You've certainly got me thinking about at least one more...

I recently received my 4006TSW CHP and completely broke it down for a much needed cleaning. Looks like I'll have to replace my recoil guide rod, but everything else was good to go. Some interesting features I noticed though:

-The drawbar assembly doesn't even have a hole for a trigger play spring.

-Steel mainspring plunger and disconnector used.

-The decock-only safety body is unique, in that it does not have a hole for or use a ambi safety body plunger&spring. Instead, the body has an indent on the far side that a built-in plunger clicks into, and the plunger comes from under the rear sight and into the safety body channel (see pics). Mine has the correct .45 safety lever with the tab.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TercGen View Post
Great info in this thread, and skjos I am jealous of your 3 guns! You've certainly got me thinking about at least one more...

I recently received my 4006TSW CHP and completely broke it down for a much needed cleaning. Looks like I'll have to replace my recoil guide rod, but everything else was good to go. Some interesting features I noticed though:

-The drawbar assembly doesn't even have a hole for a trigger play spring.

-Steel mainspring plunger and disconnector used.

-The decock-only safety body is unique, in that it does not have a hole for or use a ambi safety body plunger&spring. Instead, the body has an indent on the far side that a built-in plunger clicks into, and the plunger comes from under the rear sight and into the safety body channel (see pics). Mine has the correct .45 safety lever with the tab.
Decocker - It was modified so if the decocker spring were to break, it would function as a safety/decocker. I PM'd the OP with some information that I thought would be useful to add. I'm not sure that the information went through as I'm usually a lurker and don't post much.

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Old 06-25-2017, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by TercGen View Post
Great info in this thread, and skjos I am jealous of your 3 guns! You've certainly got me thinking about at least one more...

I recently received my 4006TSW CHP and completely broke it down for a much needed cleaning. Looks like I'll have to replace my recoil guide rod, but everything else was good to go. Some interesting features I noticed though:

-The drawbar assembly doesn't even have a hole for a trigger play spring.

-Steel mainspring plunger and disconnector used.

-The decock-only safety body is unique, in that it does not have a hole for or use a ambi safety body plunger&spring. Instead, the body has an indent on the far side that a built-in plunger clicks into, and the plunger comes from under the rear sight and into the safety body channel (see pics). Mine has the correct .45 safety lever with the tab.
Interesting. Knew about the drawbar. Didn't know about the revision to the decocker body (slide plunger & ambi lever). Not surprising, as sometimes a large order would get something not necessarily included in the standard production runs.

For example, the 4006TSW's received by my agency, of the same vintage as the CHP TSW's, used regular ambi levers and lacked the plunger under the sight. Just off the top of my head, I'd wonder if the new plunger was a revision to better help prevent lateral decocking body shift (when the decock-only option was ordered as a production item).

Always something new and interesting. That feature revision wasn't in the 2010 3rd gen armorer recert. Might've just been something developed for the big CHP order.

One of the things I heard as a brand new S&W armorer, when it came to new or unexpected differences and revisions ... was, "never say never".

Thanks guys.
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Old 06-25-2017, 11:48 AM
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I tried to send a PM to the OP, but it appears they didn't go through.

Additional info-

4006 TSW CHP

Magazine disconnect - yes, I'm not a fan of this feature.

Short reset trigger - I've never shot any other 3rd gen S&W autos only issued 4006's and 4013's so I can't confirm this, but the reset is very short.

Decock only - if spring were to fail the lever can be manually swept up to fire and will stay in the fire position.

scalloped front strap - for aid in stripping mag if needed.
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Old 06-25-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Fastbolt View Post
Interesting. Knew about the drawbar. Didn't know about the revision to the decocker body (slide plunger & ambi lever). Not surprising, as sometimes a large order would get something not necessarily included in the standard production runs.

For example, the 4006TSW's received by my agency, of the same vintage as the CHP TSW's, used regular ambi levers and lacked the plunger under the sight. Just off the top of my head, I'd wonder if the new plunger was a revision to better help prevent lateral decocking body shift (when the decock-only option was ordered as a production item).

Always something new and interesting. That feature revision wasn't in the 2010 3rd gen armorer recert. Might've just been something developed for the big CHP order.

One of the things I heard as a brand new S&W armorer, when it came to new or unexpected differences and revisions ... was, "never say never".

Thanks guys.
CHP academy gunsmith told me that feature was added at the request of the CHP to ensure that if the spring on the decocker broke, it could be manually swept up to fire.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:28 PM
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CHP academy gunsmith told me that feature was added at the request of the CHP to ensure that if the spring on the decocker broke, it could be manually swept up to fire.
Sounds like a special order revision. In the last parts list I received before the factory discontinued making them available (due to changing over to a new computer system, supposedly), their were only a few special order 3rd gen pistols models listed. They were the original 4006CHP, the 3914DAO, 5956RCMP and the SM9VEAFGHTN. I suspect that if the parts list had continued to be available outside the in-house computer system, the new 4006TSW CHP model would've probably had some differences listed.

A longtime friend of mine was a weapons officer (and trained armorer) for the CHP until his retirement (9000 series badge number), but he said that over time that position had changed to him mostly organizing and conducting firearms training, and only being able to do inspections of weapons, with guns determined to require repair then being sent to the academy gunsmiths. He retired before they decided to replace their original 4006's, and I never met anyone assigned as a weapons officer at one of the "local" field offices.

Thanks.
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:00 PM
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Sounds like a special order revision. In the last parts list I received before the factory discontinued making them available (due to changing over to a new computer system, supposedly), their were only a few special order 3rd gen pistols models listed. They were the original 4006CHP, the 3914DAO, 5956RCMP and the SM9VEAFGHTN. I suspect that if the parts list had continued to be available outside the in-house computer system, the new 4006TSW CHP model would've probably had some differences listed.

A longtime friend of mine was a weapons officer (and trained armorer) for the CHP until his retirement (9000 series badge number), but he said that over time that position had changed to him mostly organizing and conducting firearms training, and only being able to do inspections of weapons, with guns determined to require repair then being sent to the academy gunsmiths. He retired before they decided to replace their original 4006's, and I never met anyone assigned as a weapons officer at one of the "local" field offices.

Thanks.
I've held the same positions. Weapons officer and Range Master, I often attend any and all training available from outside agencies along with other reputable training companies (on and off duty). You're absolutely correct, the parts such as the decocker body (left side and body), extractor were to be fit to the gun if they were to be replaced, which required the gunsmith at the academy to fit the part only. So I'm assuming the parts were oversized, but I've never really looked into that. I came on and was issued the standard 4006 and then we transitioned to the 4006TSW several years later. I'm part of the state transition team for the M&P. I'm sad to see the DA/SA gun go away. I really like shooting DA/SA guns especially in local competitions. Here's a list of videos if you get bored of the different types of handguns I enjoy shooting.

crossrifles
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I have a friend/ co-worker that retired years ago (9000) ID which also held the same positions. Wouldn't that be cool if we were talking about the same guy.

Anyway, appreciate your insight and I generally don't get on here much. Thanks.

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Old 06-25-2017, 01:25 PM
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...

I have a friend/ co-worker that retired years ago (9000) ID which also held the same positions. Wouldn't that be cool if we were talking about the same guy.

...
Was his name Doug?
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:32 PM
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Was his name Doug?
No, JD (was a motor). I see you're in the Central Coast and I've been in the LA area the entire time.
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:48 PM
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No, JD (was a motor). I see you're in the Central Coast and I've been in the LA area the entire time.
Damn. It would've indeed been cool if it was the same guy. We met as youngsters working security (campus "police") at a university. After he was hired by the CHP, he eventually talked me into getting into LE (since I was the gun nut who liked to drive fast). He did work West Hollywood surface streets (before the days of it having a PD), but spent a lot of time working field offices at the other end of the state.

I didn't want to chase tail lights for a living, so he talked me into applying at a couple largish agencies in a couple of the field offices where he'd worked, and one of them hired me.

I moved to the Central Coast after retirement, but grew up in the San Diego/El Cajon area.

BTW, one of the reasons for "fitting" being required when either the manual safety body or the spring-loaded/decock-only body is replaced is because the decocking "timing" has to be checked, which involves the sear release lever, and typically the sear release lever has to be replaced (which is a fitted/filed part).

Curious about something, though. I've never opportunity or reason to disassemble the slide for one of the older 4006CHP guns. The parts list shows a decocker detent spring assembly, instead of the manual safety body plunger spring (part 5). Did the older CHP .40's have something like that other plunger located under the rear sight, instead of the standard body plunger & spring, or was that just something they added to the decock-only guns at the request of the academy smiths?
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:13 PM
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Okay, I see. Central Coast is beautiful.
I'm a transplant, I'm not from California. I was closing in on 9 years in the Marine Corps when all my testing was done to get into LE. I have to say though, I'm leaving California ASAP. I grew up in the foothills of Lincoln National Forest in NM and I eagerly want to return.

Thanks for the info on the decocker, your knowledge on the platform is phenomenal.

To your question, I honestly don't remember. I don't believe any changes were done to the old 4006 because the levers were decock/safety and fire manually. I'm sure the mods to the decocker were requested on the 4006TSW only. I didn't purchase the old 4006 (mine was truly beat to hell when I was issued it), but I'm going to purchase this one. Only because that weapon never left my possession and I maintained it.
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:47 PM
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... I didn't purchase the old 4006 (mine was truly beat to hell when I was issued it), but I'm going to purchase this one. Only because that weapon never left my possession and I maintained it.
I can understand the appeal of getting a "1 owner" used LE weapon.

When I was told we were going to be given a 1-time opportunity to buy a previously issued weapon, I went and turned in my issued 4513TSW for one of only a few never-issued/NIB 3913TSW's sitting idle in our inventory. I fired the first rounds through it, as an issued weapon, and then when it came time to turn it in for a M&P, I had it set aside so I could buy it. The cost was similar to what your agency offered the older 4006's for personal purchase by its officers, as I recall it being stated by my buddy.

BTW, my "knowledge" of the 3rd gen's (more limited than everyone seems to think) was primarily a matter of talking my agency into making and keeping me certified as an armorer for them ... for a very selfish reason. I wanted to be able to continue to maintain and repair my own guns when I retired.

That's why I ended up getting scheduled for assorted other armorer classes over the years, such as for Glocks, SW99's, 1911's, AR's, 870, SIG Classic and S&W revolvers (DAO J's). I wanted to be able to work on the ones I owned when eventually leaving the agency. (I just never decided to buy a SIG.)

I can see the attraction to returning to the foothills of your youth (and also leaving behind CA's increasingly byzantine laws).

As much as I like living near beach communities like those of my youth, I like having forests and Redwoods nearby, too. Hence, the Central Coast (which gives us both). If it wasn't for a grand daughter close by, we'd have been gone to WA state by now. We might still, at some point, as the local grand daughter becomes a teen and doesn't "need" grand parents, and our other, younger, grand daughters in WA are still young enough to enjoy having doting grand parents nearby.
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Old 06-26-2017, 01:13 AM
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Updates added to the original post based on the excellent information coming into this thread.
I also added a close-up of the barrel grooves - any ideas what may have caused them?

Anybody own a 4006TSW and a 4006TSW(CHP) that can compare trigger resets?

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Old 06-26-2017, 01:45 PM
TercGen TercGen is offline
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Updates added to the original post based on the excellent information coming into this thread.
I also added a close-up of the barrel grooves - any ideas what may have caused them?

Anybody own a 4006TSW and a 4006TSW(CHP) that can compare trigger resets?
I own a 'regular' 4006TSW as well as a number of other 3rd Gens, and the CHP trigger reset feels pretty standard to me.

As far as the barrel grooves, I noticed that mine has one or two minor grooves as well in the same area. It could be the resulting wear of many CHP rounds downrange, especially .40 cal, which can be hard on any gun. My other LEO-trade-ins (4006TSW & 5906TSW) do not have these grooves, but they are both in better condition as well and may not have seen the same kind of use that my CHP did.
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:43 PM
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Okay, so I just got my two today. Both seem to be in really great condition all things considered. The grip on one side of one of the guns has seen some wear, but other than that the guns are in pretty good shape. I mean, there isn't even a lot of wear on the black parts of the gun.

Here's where I'm not really connecting what is being posted with what I received. These guns show very little use. I'm not talking about shooting use. I'm talking about use in general. Even the bottoms of the magazines show little to no wear.

Now when I gloriously turned in my M&P 45 last week (thank you Jesus) it was beat all to h***. And I mean literally....this was my (I think) third M&P (maybe second) in almost 9 years. The bottoms of the magazines looked like one of my Chihuahuas had used them as chew toys. The top of the front sight had a skid mark on it. The finish was well worn on multiple places on the slide. The slide lock levers were worn silver, the edges of the rear sight were gashed and worn down. The edge of the ejection port was worn silver. There were nicks and scratches (more like gouges) all over that thing.

For guns that supposedly had such a "high" round count, these things look like not only were they unholstered infrequently, they don't even look carried. There doesn't even appear to be normal wear and tear on the guns.

I would love to hear thoughts on these points. Given that the vast majority of these appear to be in great shape, it seems unlikely everyone got "off the shelf" guns.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-27-2017, 01:39 AM
piedrarc piedrarc is offline
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Okay, so I just got my two today. Both seem to be in really great condition all things considered. The grip on one side of one of the guns has seen some wear, but other than that the guns are in pretty good shape. I mean, there isn't even a lot of wear on the black parts of the gun.

Here's where I'm not really connecting what is being posted with what I received. These guns show very little use. I'm not talking about shooting use. I'm talking about use in general. Even the bottoms of the magazines show little to no wear.

Now when I gloriously turned in my M&P 45 last week (thank you Jesus) it was beat all to h***. And I mean literally....this was my (I think) third M&P (maybe second) in almost 9 years. The bottoms of the magazines looked like one of my Chihuahuas had used them as chew toys. The top of the front sight had a skid mark on it. The finish was well worn on multiple places on the slide. The slide lock levers were worn silver, the edges of the rear sight were gashed and worn down. The edge of the ejection port was worn silver. There were nicks and scratches (more like gouges) all over that thing.

For guns that supposedly had such a "high" round count, these things look like not only were they unholstered infrequently, they don't even look carried. There doesn't even appear to be normal wear and tear on the guns.

I would love to hear thoughts on these points. Given that the vast majority of these appear to be in great shape, it seems unlikely everyone got "off the shelf" guns.

Thoughts?
I can answer that. There is a possibility that some of these guns saw little use, some saw heavy use. There are a lot of different positions in the CHP, ranging from SWAT to recruitment, public affairs and so on. Other special units do a lot of training while others meet the required standard. Regardless of that every weapon is still inspected. For example, every officer requires a yearly inspection a complete tear down and a meticulous inspection of every part of that weapon. During that inspection the officer gets a "loaner" weapon. There are several "loaner" guns for each area (we are talking a large agency, with a lot of area offices). The loaner is a temporary issue to the officer while the inspection is completed, this allows the officer to remain armed with a primary sidearm and remain in-service to answer calls. These loaner guns often don't see hardly the round count as the "duty" weapons. Some of these loaner guns will be in pristine condition. I can assure you that some of these duty guns will be in not so great shape. I've seen some beat guns, especially from motors that have the gun exposed to elements consistently. The last cadet class that graduated this month is the last class to get issued the 4006TSW. This is pure speculation, but there could be an inventory of 4006TSW's that didn't see any use and were on hand for future officers, I would be willing to bet these would be the first to go to market. If for some reason these weapons appear in excellent condition and you happen to get one (or a few), you're lucky. As the CHP completes the transition, I can almost guarantee you will see some upset posts of guys who weren't so lucky in the condition of the guns they get.

If you are on the fence, consider yourself warned.

About the magazines - CHP uses red bottom training magazines for all live fire training. The black bottom duty magazines do not see abuse and are cycled yearly to ensure function. Every black bottom magazine will be in excellent condition.

Last edited by piedrarc; 06-27-2017 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:25 AM
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Interesting tidbit about the magazines! One of the things I noticed when I picked mine up yesterday was "dam those floorplates look brand new." I'm very satisfied with the one I got, especially since I've wanted one since I first saw them.

You mention that they all have a very thorough annual PM done, do you know if there are any mandatory replacement parts (recoil springs for example) or are wear items replaced when they start to go bad (magazines failing to lock back, etc). Thanks!
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:08 PM
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skjos,
This video came in an email for me this morning highlighting the CHP 4006TSW's. At the 15:20ish mark the pistol is being field stripped and you can see the marks on the end of the barrel which to me look very similar to the ones you show. These look like awesome pistols. Sadly I can't get one, but I do have an early 4006 that I bought new in 1990.

Watch: S&W Model 4006 TSW CHP - AllOutdoor.com

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Old 06-27-2017, 09:04 PM
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You mention that they all have a very thorough annual PM done, do you know if there are any mandatory replacement parts (recoil springs for example) or are wear items replaced when they start to go bad (magazines failing to lock back, etc). Thanks!
All parts are replaced based off the weapons officers evaluation. Most of the Range Masters are also weapons officers and they facilitate and monitor all range training so they are able to identify problems during monthly shoots and replace or send the weapons to the gunsmiths at the academy.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:37 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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skjos,
This video came in an email for me this morning highlighting the CHP 4006TSW's. At the 15:20ish mark the pistol is being field stripped and you can see the marks on the end of the barrel which to me look very similar to the ones you show. These look like awesome pistols. Sadly I can't get one, but I do have an early 4006 that I bought new in 1990.
Those do look like the same marks, the interesting thing is the pistol in the video is CHP505A which I'm assuming is one of the last ones made (10,505). Mine are in the CHP4082-4556 range.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:53 PM
piedrarc piedrarc is offline
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Those do look like the same marks, the interesting thing is the pistol in the video is CHP505A which I'm assuming is one of the last ones made (10,505). Mine are in the CHP4082-4556 range.
Those marks on the barrel are puzzling. I'm headed up to the academy in July. If I remember, I'll inquire about the marks with the gunsmiths.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:01 PM
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That would be awesome, thanks!
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