hogue and ksd have some great replacement wood grips. now, however, if like me you are looking for antler, yhat is a different story indeed friend

I wouldnt call it stupid cuz we use glocks and m&p's. they do not have safety's. with shotguns they train with using the safety. I never went to rifle school so i dont know, but my assumption is that they also use the safety

Every weapon system has what is called a "manual of arms," and has to do with how this specific system operates. Though many pistols may share function characteristics, others don't. Therefore, a pistol with a manual safety, demands "actual" "training" that has the safety manipulated. Considering a "safety on" to be malfunction, is as stupid as considering a manual transmission broken, because it does not shift on its own. I do understand your point of transitioning from plastics to da/sa, and i am really sorry that a certain Austrian ruined it for everyone with his nonsense design, but this kind of transition training is not what i would consider "proper." Hence my point about long arms and their safeties. (i can not recall any major long arms manufacturer who has removed their safeties from their products, and i bet there are important reasons for this.) I wish best of luck friend.

But guns like these don't require a safety. It's an extra added feature but it doesn't need one like a 1911 or a Hipower does. So his department chose to train without it. It's faster considering that slide mounted safeties are awkward for many people and that many guns don't even have them as an ambidextrous feature. If I was issued a gen2 I wouldn't be able to use the safety in a fast and fluid motion while drawing the gun. Many departments teach the same principal with Berettas. They may or may not call it a failure but they teach to use the safety as a decocker.

It makes also makes an easier transition from revolvers, if that's what they did.

Long arms are slightly different depending on department. Not all are carried with a round chambered. Some departments require the officers to chamber a round if they're taking out the rifle because if they're already grabbing a rifle it's because the rifle is getting presented.

Not sure how Gaston ruined it for everyone but same principals apply to his guns. Finger on the trigger to shoot!

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Correct, Shotguns and Rifles are not carried with a round in the chamber until you deploy the weapon.

This is a response to friend Arik's post from above. my pc froze so it is not quoted properly. SOTVEN

But guns like these don't require a safety. It's an extra added feature but it doesn't need one like a 1911 or a Hipower does. So his department chose to train without it.



i agree! best way to do this, send them to turn their safeties to deckockers only. it can be done, and it is the proper way.



It's faster considering that slide mounted safeties are awkward for many people and that many guns don't even have them as an ambidextrous feature.

"awkward" should not apply to a trained person. that is the point of training not to feel awkward anymore. 3rd gens are ambidextrous safety for this exact reason. and i am sure there could be safeties located at the front or bottom of a gun to render it completely useless when on, but manufacturers choose the places of most ease of use with the operating hand.



If I was issued a gen2 I wouldn't be able to use the safety in a fast and fluid motion while drawing the gun. Many departments teach the same principal with Berettas. They may or may not call it a failure but they teach to use the safety as a decocker.


arguing about how hard it would be to manipulate the safety on a luger while drawing it, yes, you have all points. for the rest, i would keep believing its a matter of training.


It makes also makes an easier transition from revolvers, if that's what they did.

Long arms are slightly different depending on department. Not all are carried with a round chambered. Some departments require the officers to chamber a round if they're taking out the rifle because if they're already grabbing a rifle it's because the rifle is getting presented.


perhaps you are right, and if so, this make this practice of the departments even more silly. the sidearm is always at the ready, yet the primary gun is not so. and it will be ready, if the threat arises. and if the threat is eliminated? remove magazine empty chamber? and what if a new threat appears very fast? reload and rechamber? did a lawyer come up with this? unless i am missing something.


Not sure how Gaston ruined it for everyone but same principals apply to his guns. Finger on the trigger to shoot!




Up until Gaston presented his pistols, manufacturers and operators were in the same page. brains over operation, "draw/safety off, aim, shoot, safety on, holster. then, the "safe action" comes along, where the safety is on the very trigger its self!!! I said this before, like a car with a monopedal under the dash. press it this way, accelerates. press it that way, stops. and even though this would never fly in a car, it did fly in the glocks. and then everyone followed in the ditch, because operators found safeties to be awkward somehow after a century or so. if one googles "browning leg," or "remington leg," or "beretta leg," etc, nothing comes back. if however one types "glock leg," guess what. And this terminology now applies to all that built pistols with the safety on the trigger, i.e. no safety. That is how he ruined all the industry. an it is silly how a pistol with a potential of shooting accidentaly goes at the ready, while a rifle or shotgun in the same application goes unchambered.

and after you chamber a round, what if you need to switch to secondary? or need to set it aside to pry a door open? unchamber or empty the shotgun, or simply press the safety on? and if so, how will this be done if one has not been trained to do this obvious safety manipulation? this is so strange indeed in terms of training, or lack of!

They teach you how to safely transition from weapon to weapon and you are not allowed to use a weapon you have been trained on. you have to pass proficiency tests on each weapon you use/carry. thats why they have sling mounts.

You unchamber the rifle or shotgun when the tactical situation is over and you are putting those systems away.

Oddly enough, I was watching an episode of "Overhaulin'" on Velocity Channel today. The guy who was being pranked as the set up to the restoration was a younger guy (late 30s) who was a LAPD officer.

During the set up for the prank, he had reason draw draw a firearm from under his shirt. (He was off duty) I saw a flash of silver when he drew and I took a look at his firearm. It was a 3rd Gen. I think it was a 4506, but might have been a 5906.

So, there are definitely younger guys using 3rd Gen guns, at least as off duty weapons. The episode was from 2014 and is titled "Scott's 1963 Cadillac El Dorado".

Parts of it are on YouTube, including his full name.

I just thought it was interesting.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Great thread! Thanks to all for contributing.

In post no. 42, I found 18's (and other's) comments on the accuracy of the "-3" to be quite interesting. Maybe I missed it but do any of you have any knowledge of what S&W did to make these last produced 3rd Gen .45s to be a significant improvement in accuracy over the earlier versions? Now I'm gonna have to find one! lol

Actually I consider my early 4506 no dash to be the most accurate (non .22) semi-auto that I own. And I own a bunch.

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