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Old 08-16-2017, 11:12 PM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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Default Wow! Another find!

Well, I walked into the same gunshop I got the Fresno Co. marked S&W model 59, and my buddy (the owner) Asks me "Hey do you like this?" and hands me a near mint early 469, in original box with papers and two factory mags.

Dang, I have to quit walking in there. It costs me every time I do...$425 later, it is in 10 day jail...

IIll get the serial number tomorrow, but it is early, with the stippled grips, but has the ambi-safety. It is in the correct 2nd Gen box, with correct label

A little back story: in the 80s, I was a firearms instructor, armourer, and rangemaster on a PD in Washington State. We carried Model 59s. One day the Smith & Wesson rep - a regular visitor to our range, (as was Sid Woodcock of Duetonics) brought us a pre-production sample of the new 469! He wanted us to evaluate it, since we used S&W 9s already. I fell in love, and actually arranged to buy one through the rep when production was started a year or so later. Hmmmm... full circle.
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Old 08-16-2017, 11:23 PM
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Congrats. The 469 was a production covert gun influenced by the ASP. I really like mine
Wow!  Another find!-img_1146-jpg
Wow!  Another find!-img_0367-jpg
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:51 AM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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Seems to me Devel had a compact 59, too
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Old 08-17-2017, 12:58 AM
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Nice find! Keep walking into that gun shop!!!
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Old 08-17-2017, 01:11 AM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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If I was a Smith Wheel Gun guy, I have a *** dream. He had a Mint 32-22 Kit gun. recently a couple of estates and he has had a boatload of S&W wheel guns, and boxes of NOS revolver parts, barrels, hammers, internals, etc.

Last edited by imarangemaster; 08-23-2017 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 08-17-2017, 01:14 AM
Big Cholla Big Cholla is offline
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Default I need parts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
If I was a Smith Wheel Gun guy, I have a wet dream. He had a Mint 32-22 Kit gun. recently a couple of estates and he has had a boatload of S&W wheel guns, and boxes of NOS revolver parts, barrels, hammers, internals, etc.
Please, please kind Sir...... I need revolver parts. Could you PM me his shop's name and the city he is in? ........... Thanks much. ......
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Old 08-17-2017, 01:25 AM
blasterp7 blasterp7 is offline
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If I was a Smith Wheel Gun guy, I have a wet dream. He had a Mint 32-22 Kit gun. recently a couple of estates and he has had a boatload of S&W wheel guns, and boxes of NOS revolver parts, barrels, hammers, internals, etc.
I need that Kit gun! please let us know the shop name!
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Old 08-17-2017, 09:52 AM
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The shop is:

Mustang Firearms
10893 Alta St
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 477-6622

Brian Schaaf owner. Tell them Bernie Molloy sent you from Smith & Wesson forum.
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Old 08-17-2017, 06:48 PM
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The serial number is A861331. It fits my Glock 19 IWB holster perfectly!
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:11 PM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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Default Pics of my girl...

Pics. pardon the cell phone pics.
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Old 08-17-2017, 11:31 PM
jsbethel jsbethel is online now
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The serial number is A861331.
Does it pass the recall test?
http://smith-wessonforum.com/139617057-post5.html
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Old 08-18-2017, 12:16 AM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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I'll check...
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Old 08-23-2017, 12:10 AM
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You know, I was reviewing current S&W Pistols, and the 469 is the progenitor of the S&W M&P 9C concept. 3.5" barrels on both, and both are 12+1 Capacity. The M&P 9Cs are very popular with the local Deputies as an off-duty or plain clothes gun. The rational is that 13 rounds is a decent combat load onboard (Browning P35 Hipower), and 3.5" barrel a good balance for concealment vs velocity. Speer Gold Dot 124 +Ps do as well from a 3.5" as from a 4" Glock 19.

I know, I wear my S&W Shield 9mm as a EDC weapon in the local rural area I live in, but when I go to the urban centers, I always opt for my Glock 19. The Shied just doesn't quite feel like enough pistol for a serious gunfight. Granted, my Glock 21 would be a best choice from my personal armory for a gun battle, but it is bit big for the concealment factor.

My recently acquired Model 59, is bigger than my Glock, and that ruled it out (though in my younger days, the Model 59 Wonder 9 was my constant companion,,,until I got the 469 when they were first released!) I may carry my 469 as an EDC weapon again. More weapon than my Shield, and a tad smaller and slimmer than my Glock 19. I would never feel under-gunned with it... My last 469, I actually shot better than my Glock 19, even though I have carried my Glock 19 since 1994 or 1995, and have tens of thousands of rounds through it. We will see when I pick it up.. Maybe a 17 pound Wolff spring for the +P GOLD DOTS.

Just an old, tired war horse rambling on...

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Old 08-23-2017, 09:45 AM
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It must be "Meant to Be". I just found both a 16 lb and 17 ld Wolff spring set in my parts drawer. That makes it easy. The 17 will take a little of the snap out of the Gold Dot 124 +Ps, and be a little easier on the gun. Granted, 99% of my shooting will be done with standard velocity 9mms, but I like to do a mag or two of the good stuff once a year or so.
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Old 08-23-2017, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
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Seems to me Devel had a compact 59, too
You sir are correct, I was reading in the SCSW that the 469's early name was the "Mini gun" and was influenced by the Devel customs.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:46 PM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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You sir are correct, I was reading in the SCSW that the 469's early name was the "Mini gun" and was influenced by the Devel customs.
Exactly! The Smith & Wesson rep, when he met with us at the range, did refer to it as their "New Mini-Gun", and privately admitted that it was inspired by the Devel, and that they wanted to capitalize on the success of the Devel conversion of their Model 59. I think Devel came out around 1980.
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:19 PM
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Thinking back, it was some time in 1982 that we evaluated it, as I know it was at least a year until they were released and I got my from S&W through the dept. IIRC, it did not have a model number on it at the time, and I think the grips were different than the production guns.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:46 PM
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I've personally never cared for the idea of "gauging a threat environment" because I believe it simply isn't possible. On one hand, guessing that you will be in a lower threat environment leaves yourself open to poor guessing. Attempting to gauge a higher threat environment?! Take a rifle, a partner or don't go.

I believe a smaller pistol is useful if you must be in a position to be extremely discreet and must hide the pistol around the clothes when your option for the clothes is somewhat outside your control.

Aside from those generalities, I don't believe that a 469 would ever possibly leave someone "undergunned" in any situation where a Glock 19 has them perfectly well outfitted. I just can't imagine some odd happenstance that would make this "true."

Pick your handgun (or pick a few), be proficient with them, have magazines and leave all the excess analyzation out, it just clouds what is necessary.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
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I've personally never cared for the idea of "gauging a threat environment" because I believe it simply isn't possible. On one hand, guessing that you will be in a lower threat environment leaves yourself open to poor guessing. Attempting to gauge a higher threat environment?! Take a rifle, a partner or don't go.

I believe a smaller pistol is useful if you must be in a position to be extremely discreet and must hide the pistol around the clothes when your option for the clothes is somewhat outside your control.

Aside from those generalities, I don't believe that a 469 would ever possibly leave someone "undergunned" in any situation where a Glock 19 has them perfectly well outfitted. I just can't imagine some odd happenstance that would make this "true."

Pick your handgun (or pick a few), be proficient with them, have magazines and leave all the excess analyzation out, it just clouds what is necessary.
Very true. I believe the 469 and Glock 19 are equally capable as defensive firearms and even offensive if needed. I have carried both as duty and off duty weapons in my career, and am proficient and confident with both. The Shield is handy when I am in my small rural town up in the mountains of California running local errands, but anywhere else it is the Glock or now the 469.

When I hike or backpack in the mountains, it is a Glock 21 loaded with Ranger T-Series +P 230s in a drop leg holster. Concealment is not necessary, and is even not the best option in the wilderness. A well heeled person is not a good target for the goblins (meth cooking pukes and cartel dope growers) that are so common in the Sierras. We also have lots of mountain lion and bear, and the Glock 21 is the biggest sidearm I own. I also shoot the it as well as the Glock 19 and the S&W 469.

As for mags, pistols I try to have minimum 6 for each, though most I have closer to a dozen for. My long guns, the mags are counted in the dozens....

I do continual threat assessment as a matter of habit after 7 years military and over 20 in Law Enforcement. I try to be in Jeff Cooper's "Condition yellow" at all times. I am not paranoid, just practical. The world is not always a warm fuzzy place....

Last edited by imarangemaster; 08-24-2017 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:52 PM
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Totally agree with especially the very last sentence -- which is why I am opposed any time someone sees fit to "carry less" on purpose because they believe they are visiting a lower threat environment.

Ahhh, if only it were that easy!
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:19 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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The only 469's I have seen in gunshops look to be well used but I picked up a 669 a while back at my general store as a trade in . It looked it was tested and put away and came with a like new safariland lined leather owb holster a 2 stock mags and one 59 mag for 359 dollars . It ran threw the safety test and 400 rounds just like you hope a fine handgun would . It is may smaller carry option now and found it fits some glock 43 holsters too but works fine in our comp-tac neutral set up for a m&p9c or my sig p320 once the belts snugged up . To bad these great all metal pistols are no longer produced . I have ordered most of the parts I will need to maintain it over the years too .
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:12 PM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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Totally agree with especially the very last sentence -- which is why I am opposed any time someone sees fit to "carry less" on purpose because they believe they are visiting a lower threat environment.

Ahhh, if only it were that easy!
I respectfully disagree - slightly. It is akin to carrying only your M4 and a spare mag while going to the mess hall in a FOB in Afghanistan, as opposed to kitting up with FLV and SAPI plates when patrolling the perimeter.

If I go to the corner market in our small mountain town, my 9mm Shield is very capable, just as it would be in Sacramento. The are definitely more threats, however, in the urban areas (and out in the mountains), than downtown at the Safeway.

While It would be foolish to carry only a .25 auto (which is almost worse than not having a pistol), it would be equally ridiculous to carry my Glock 21 in a drop leg holster walking downtown. I am not going to encounter a cartel drug grow or a bear at the local Safeway.

Even if I stumbled into a potentially terminal situation, the Shield would perform nicely.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:29 PM
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All sounds nice and fits in to a box -UNTIL- something goes extremely wrong in exactly the place where everyone is completely shocked that "gasp, could ever happen HERE?"

You also seem to be attaching magic talisman status to a 15rd .45 in a johnny-tactical holster that it simply doesn't have.

My position in unchanged... we cannot accurately predict threat level and by making a rational choice to go places where we actually believe the threat level is higher, or beyond some blurred threshold, we are then choosing to put ourselves in bad places & then (seemingly) asking our particular choice of handgun to either get us out of that situation or worse, justify our reasoning for going there.

Apologies for this unproductive thread drift.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
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All sounds nice and fits in to a box -UNTIL- something goes extremely wrong in exactly the place where everyone is completely shocked that "gasp, could ever happen HERE?"

You also seem to be attaching magic talisman status to a 15rd .45 in a johnny-tactical holster that it simply doesn't have.

My position in unchanged... we cannot accurately predict threat level and by making a rational choice to go places where we actually believe the threat level is higher, or beyond some blurred threshold, we are then choosing to put ourselves in bad places & then (seemingly) asking our particular choice of handgun to either get us out of that situation or worse, justify our reasoning for going there.

As for th4 drop leg, it is the only holster that does not interfere with my back pack and its hip belt. It is actually slower than my IWB holsters.

Apologies for this unproductive thread drift.
It is my job to get out of (or preferably avoid) any situation, not the weapon.

As for magic talisman of the 45, no, it is simple physics ( a .45 slug that opens to 1.01" and transfers 450 ft lbs to the target is better than a 9mm opening to .55" and yeilding 375 ft lbs when shooting a bear....

Last edited by imarangemaster; 08-25-2017 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:43 PM
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Totally agree with especially the very last sentence -- which is why I am opposed any time someone sees fit to "carry less" on purpose because they believe they are visiting a lower threat environment.

Ahhh, if only it were that easy!
All depends on where you live. The 469 is more than capable. Many folks carry a 5 shot revolver. Walking around constantly in fear or always looking over your shoulder for zombies isn't the answer either.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:08 AM
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Other than oneonceloads last reply reply this tread went to heel . No 45acp , or 9mm or the other in between typical defensive cartridges are gar-o-teed one shoot man stoppers so deal how ever you will with in your own little world and lets stay on topic .
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:53 PM
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Well, I finally get to pick it up tomorrow. Going straight to the indoor range to check for function with both Federal 9BPLE 115 +P+ and Speer Gold Dot 124 +P. I want to see if they function with a Wolff 17 pound spring. For regular shooting, I will shoot standard velocity 115 and 124 FMJ, so I want to see if they function on the 17 pounder, too.

I know Illinois State Police fed their 39s, 439s and 469s the 9BPLE +P+ load, and never had a problem, though i will do about one magazine a year of the +P, just to keep the muscle memory of the recoil. I shoot the 9BPLE +P+ in my Glock 19 because it prefers it to the Speer +P. I shoot the Gold Dot 124 +P in my 9mm Shield, as it likes it better than the 9BPLE. I will see which load the new 469 likes. I have three or four hundred rounds of each.

Last edited by imarangemaster; 08-28-2017 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:51 PM
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Well I am in love again. Fired about 150 rounds (all with the Wolff 17 lb spring) and not a single glitch. First 50 were Federal 115 aluminum cased ammo. No malfunctions but not very impressive accuracy (both the +P and +P+ grouped better. I then shot 50 rounds each of Federal 9BPLE +P+ and Speer Gold Dot 124 +P. Both were healthy for sure though I found the 115 +P+ a little easier to control. This was evidenced by the significantly tighter base group on 7 yard rapid fire, not quite 2 rounds a second (actually about 1.5 rounds a second.).

The only complaint I had was the 469s double action first shot. My M&P Shield 9mm and my Glock 19 and Glock 21 have me spoiled. With the 469 I pull the first (double action) shot t o the left. When I carried the 59 and the 469 as duty/off duty I practiced enough that I didn't pull the first shot. Years of Glockification have untrained me.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:51 PM
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Well I am in love again. Fired about 150 rounds (all with the Wolff 17 lb spring) and not a single glitch. First 50 were Federal 115 aluminum cased ammo. No malfunctions but not very impressive accuracy (both the +P and +P+ grouped better. I then shot 50 rounds each of Federal 9BPLE +P+ and Speer Gold Dot 124 +P. Both were healthy for sure though I found the 115 +P+ a little easier to control. This was evidenced by the significantly tighter base group on 7 yard rapid fire, not quite 2 rounds a second (actually about 1.5 rounds a second.).

The only complaint I had was the 469s double action first shot. My M&P Shield 9mm and my Glock 19 and Glock 21 have me spoiled. With the 469 I pull the first (double action) shot t o the left. When I carried the 59 and the 469 as duty/off duty I practiced enough that I didn't pull the first shot. Years of Glockification have untrained me.
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:10 AM
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I was surprised that the 9BPLE was better in the 469 than the 124 +P Gold Dot. My 3" barreled Shield definitely prefers the 124 +P Gold Dot, where my Glock 19 shoots better with the 9BPLE +P+. I really expected the Gold Dot to be better than it was.

Oh well, all five magazines are loaded with 9BPLE +P+ now. (One for each vehicle glove compartment, one for my brief case, and one for the weapon) The magazine for EDC in an IWB holster, I replaced the nylon finger rest with a flat metal base plate from a Model 59 magazine. It cuts down on the "printing" effect the finger rest magazine has on the over shirt. This is how I carried it in the 80s and 90s, when it was my off duty and plain clothes carry gun. It really does make a huge difference.
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  #31  
Old 08-30-2017, 03:59 PM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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My EDC set up.
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File Type: jpg EDC.JPG (261.8 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg Target.jpg (53.7 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by imarangemaster; 08-30-2017 at 04:16 PM.
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  #32  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:00 PM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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Default Glock 19 vs 469 size

The Glock 19 is slightly bigger. They both weigh about the same, as the Glock is slightly lighter empty, but holds 3 more rounds. The 469 is thinner than the Glock, and slightly shorter. The Glock grip is slightly more bulky than the 469, and when you use a 59 base plate, the Glock is slightly taller. 15+1 in the Glock 19 is nice, but 12+1 in the S&W 469 should be sufficient. The Glock 19 is going back in the safe for now, but the Shield will stay out. I'll put a 6 rounder in it for when I need a "pocket pistol", and a weapon in an IWB holster is not practical.
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File Type: jpg Glk19 469a.JPG (90.5 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg glk19 469b.JPG (84.8 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by imarangemaster; 08-30-2017 at 04:19 PM.
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  #33  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:02 PM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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Default M&P shield 9mm vs 469

469 is slightly longer, but Shield with 7 round magazine slightly taller. For 5 more rounds than the Shield, it is worth it.
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File Type: jpg shield 469b.JPG (86.6 KB, 11 views)
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  #34  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:08 AM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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I took this picture to compare the Shield to the 469 a little better.... Other than the grip being slightly slimmer and the barrel being .4" shorter, the 469 is actually more compact! I carried the 469 all day in my same Safariland Model 100 IWB holster for my Glock 19 (just a little too large for the 469), and it was more comfortable than the Glock 19, and rode the same as the Shield as far as concealability (the butt actually printed less on the shirt than the Shield.

I think my Shield just became my "pocket gun" and the 469 is my new EDC carry, whether I am up here in the small town (where I would have carried the Shield), or down in urban areas where I would have carried the Glock. From the early 80s, into the mid 1990s, the 469 was my EDC weapon for off duty. I guess I was smarter then than I have been for the last 20 years.... Oh well, never too late to re-learn an old lesson.
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Last edited by imarangemaster; 08-31-2017 at 12:16 AM.
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  #35  
Old 08-31-2017, 08:02 AM
BAM-BAM BAM-BAM is offline
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It's all in the hand of the holder....... but I never liked the 2X4 feel of the 469 I had for a couple of years......but was in a different story when the 6906 came out.

I have a mag set up like yours with a steel base plate....... another option I use and prefer is a flat 5906 base plate.....ground back with the front edge stippled..... not much longer but allows me to get a better grip with my little finger.

As to the 'carry less" argument...since the early 90s... I tend to carry my 3913NL with the flush fit flat steel base plate...... for 7+1 here in a "burg of the Burgh"..... with a spare 8round mag on my belt and 2more in the car/truck. If I 'thought" the threat level required more...... I'd stay home or take my Beretta CX4 or an AR!!!!!!

When I'm "away from home" I tend to go with my Shorty-9 ( a PC custom 6904) with a spare (or 2) 15rd 5906 mags with +2 adapters. Carried in Safariland Model 123 horizontal mag pouches ( which carry the magazine flat on top of the belt and are easy on/off with their velcro flap).

Last edited by BAM-BAM; 08-31-2017 at 08:14 AM.
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  #36  
Old 09-05-2017, 04:30 PM
imarangemaster imarangemaster is offline
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I shot the 469 a second time today. This time comparing it to my Glock 19 9mm, Glock 21 45 ACP, and the 9mm Shield.

The drill was a full magazine (of +P carry loads) +1 up the spout up the spout from each firearm at 7 yards at a 4" square. Rapid fire at about one shot per second.

The best group, surprisingly, was my 45 ACP Glock 21 shooting 14 rounds of Ranger T-Series 230 +P - at about 2.5". Very consistent.

Next best was the 469 shooting 13 rounds of Federal 9BPLE +P+ with a base group of 2" with two fliers opening it up to 3.5'

The next was the S&W M&P Shield, shooting 9 rounds of Speer Gold dot 124 +P (NYPD load). It went about 3.5"

Fourth was the Glock 19, that tied with the Shield except one flier.. Also shooting the 9BPLE +P+.
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