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  #51  
Old 08-24-2017, 04:23 PM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
One does not, that is the point. Some people choose to carry five shot revolvers, and they are comfortable with that. It is none of my business, nor very bright to tell them how to carry.

I hardly see someone carrying five rounds as a disadvantage for most self defense situations. But then us revolver guys do not do mag dumps.
Mag dumps with accuracy are not only fun, but good training and did I mention fun? Especially when you use smaller 5x8" targets

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  #52  
Old 08-24-2017, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Old cop View Post
I have a Gen2 LCP w/a Ruger 7 round mag and it works fine, fully stuffed w/7 rounds plus one for a total of 8. Although not carried often it is shot monthly and never a problem.
From the Ruger website LCP's are listed as +1. You are carrying just as Ruger suggests.
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  #53  
Old 08-24-2017, 04:25 PM
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I have no idea why anyone would suggest that you not carry "+1". As far as I am concerned if your magazine is designed to carry X number of rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber then that's how you ought to carry it. I have taken my share of instruction and as a Texas licensed firearms instructor I have given my share of instruction and I always show folks, especially with 3rd Gen S&W pistols and similar decocking pistols, how to load the magazine, rack the slide, decock, then remove the magazine and load a round back in for maximum firepower.

This has nothing to do with my personal quest for firepower since I mostly carry 6 shot revolvers and sometimes 5s - but when I do carry a pistol it is loaded to the max because it is supposed to be!

Last edited by ISCS Yoda; 08-24-2017 at 04:27 PM.
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  #54  
Old 08-24-2017, 04:26 PM
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I always load the chamber, and the magazine full.
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Old 08-24-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
(snip) because it is supposed to be!
Is this a federal law, or a state law? Utah is the only state I know of with laws.

You were doing good until the last few words. It is supposed to be whatever the individual thinks it should be, as long as it is legal. For example without a carry permit in Utah it is against the law to carry chambered.

Last edited by Walkingwolf; 08-24-2017 at 04:35 PM.
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  #56  
Old 08-24-2017, 04:51 PM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Don't over think it. Springs wear out from use not from compression. A lot of mags in 45acp tend to be hard when inserting the last round. All my Glock 21 mags are like that yet they never failed

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Hah. I think I have identified my special Smith & Wesson Forum antagonist.

The added resistance I refer to is not a continuation of gradual buildup; it comes on quickly and builds quickly. I believe that is an indication of over stress. I got the notion from a guy that claimed to be a 'spring engineer', but I may be misapplying his message. So shoot me.
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  #57  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:27 PM
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Hah. I think I have identified my special Smith & Wesson Forum antagonist.

The added resistance I refer to is not a continuation of gradual buildup; it comes on quickly and builds quickly. I believe that is an indication of over stress. I got the notion from a guy that claimed to be a 'spring engineer', but I may be misapplying his message. So shoot me.
Say what? You got that from what? Because I didn't agree with you? Ok then! Stick with that

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  #58  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Triggernosis View Post
He was saying that the first round in a full magazine sometimes puts too much pressure on the slide above it and may result in the slide not being able to freely move upon firing and eject the fired casing and pick up the new round.
I've never had any trouble in that regards with my P232 or my 92FS. Must be those danged Flocks he's so fond of....
If that's the case (which it is for me and most I know who carry pistols), you should practice with it, and if the pistol won't handle it, you're getting cheated and should sell it. The ONLY sensible way to carry a semi-automatic pistol is with one on the chamber and a mag "re-filled" or topped off to capacity.
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  #59  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by BigDog48 View Post
If that's the case (which it is for me and most I know who carry pistols), you should practice with it, and if the pistol won't handle it, you're getting cheated and should sell it. The ONLY sensible way to carry a semi-automatic pistol is with one on the chamber and a mag "re-filled" or topped off to capacity.
So people who do things the way they want, and not your way are not sensible?

I carry my 1911's +1, my wife carries her Pavona +1. But I never would push my carry on others, it is their personal decision whether I do it or not. I call it respect, but now realize it is not sensible.

I would say any gun that will not function with less than a full magazine is not safe to carry.

Last edited by Walkingwolf; 08-24-2017 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:31 PM
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Geeez....this thread ran off in the ditch fast enough, didn't it?
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  #61  
Old 08-24-2017, 07:02 PM
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Geeez....this thread ran off in the ditch fast enough, didn't it?
No more than a caliber thread, or revolver versus semi auto thread. Or any thread where there are more than one choice. It is the beast of the internet. As much as I love being online, I often wonder if there would be less conflict if it was not invented.
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  #62  
Old 08-24-2017, 07:59 PM
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I'm in the "it depends" camp.

When I had a Glock 23, I loaded one round down because it was difficult to seat a fully loaded mag with the slide closed. I figured if I had difficulty inserting the mag under ideal conditions, what would happen in high stress, less-than-optimal conditions?

On the other hand, I can easily insert a fully loaded mag with the slide closed with my Beretta 92FS, so that's how I keep it.

FWIW, I've seen Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn, two BTDT firearms instructors, recommend loading Glock 19 mags down by one round. Are they right or wrong? I don't know, but I wouldn't disregard what they have to say based on their experiences.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:08 PM
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I'm in the "it depends" camp.

When I had a Glock 23, I loaded one round down because it was difficult to seat a fully loaded mag with the slide closed. I figured if I had difficulty inserting the mag under ideal conditions, what would happen in high stress, less-than-optimal conditions?

On the other hand, I can easily insert a fully loaded mag with the slide closed with my Beretta 92FS, so that's how I keep it.

FWIW, I've seen Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn, two BTDT firearms instructors, recommend loading Glock 19 mags down by one round. Are they right or wrong? I don't know, but I wouldn't disregard what they have to say based on their experiences.
Well, then, I can somewhat understand why my friend advised me to down-load then, as he is a BIG Glock fan. He has a half-dozen identical Glocks (model 19, I think) that he uses for his CC classes.

I do NOT plan to down-load my new, to me, 3913NL.
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  #64  
Old 08-24-2017, 08:47 PM
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Well, then, I can somewhat understand why my friend advised me to down-load then, as he is a BIG Glock fan. He has a half-dozen identical Glocks (model 19, I think) that he uses for his CC classes.

I do NOT plan to down-load my new, to me, 3913NL.
I was issued model 39, prior to your model. We always carried them +1, per S&W armorers instructions. As I have pointed out, most guns are designed for +1, like stated you can almost put another round in the magazine past the capacity. None of my Glocks had that play, and needed the but of the mag slammed to get a full mag to catch with the gun in battery. Plus add that when my wife's Glock broke that was one of the CS questions when I called Glock.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:08 PM
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And how does one determine whether a particular gun is designed for +1 load out?
Two methods:

1) Fill the magazine to capacity and then see if how much additional space you have in it. If you can press the round down 1/4" or so, it should be good to go; and if not

2) Insert the magazine into the pistol with the slide in battery and see if it seats with a normal amount of pressure. If you can seat it with normal pressure and have it lock in place, then it's good to go.

If on the other hand, you have to press hard or whack the base of the magazine to get the mag release to fully engage, then it isn't well suited to +1 loading.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:14 PM
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Yes I do, see no problem with doing so?
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:17 PM
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I carry 12 in my 6906, been that way for the 23 years I have it. Not superstitious but one more is 13. Joe
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:17 PM
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I always load from a magazine. Some manuals say do NOT load a single round into the chamber and close the slide.

I use a dedicated magazine with just one round ... this magazine has a different colored floorplate than my carry magazines. Load one round from the 'starter' mag, then replace with a full one.

Bodyguard .380 w/Thumb safety: Load one round from a magazine, engage thumb safety, replace empty mag with full mag.

SW 3913NL: Same drill except drop the hammer with the decocker and move safety lever to 'fire' position. Gun is now ready for the first shot in double action.

Sig P239 - Same, except use Sig decocker to drop hammer. First shot is double action.

And I agree with BB57 - if the full mag is hard to seat, then the +1 loading is questionable. I've seen a few guns that were very hard to lock in a full mag with the slide closed, but can't recall what models those were.
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  #69  
Old 08-24-2017, 09:33 PM
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A lot in this thread about personal preferences. Here's mine.

I have two .40 cal guns I carry, though not at the same time. A .40 Shield, six round mag plus one.

G23, I carry it with the thirteen round magazine, but don't bother with a +1.

Now, just to keep I always carry a spare magazine. The seven rounder for the Shield and a G22 fifteen round mag when toting the Glock.
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  #70  
Old 08-24-2017, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AR_Black View Post
I always load from a magazine. Some manuals say do NOT load a single round into the chamber and close the slide.

I use a dedicated magazine with just one round ... this magazine has a different colored floorplate than my carry magazines. Load one round from the 'starter' mag, then replace with a full one.

Bodyguard .380 w/Thumb safety: Load one round from a magazine, engage thumb safety, replace empty mag with full mag.

SW 3913NL: Same drill except drop the hammer with the decocker and move safety lever to 'fire' position. Gun is now ready for the first shot in double action.

Sig P239 - Same, except use Sig decocker to drop hammer. First shot is double action.

And I agree with BB57 - if the full mag is hard to seat, then the +1 loading is questionable. I've seen a few guns that were very hard to lock in a full mag with the slide closed, but can't recall what models those were.
I always empty the mag in order, then the last round in the magazine is loaded. This rotates the rounds loaded to avoid setback.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:08 PM
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Never heard it called "+1"

I think you might call it "+1 second behind the curve"

We call it "duty ready" and it is a specific part of our qualification.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:40 PM
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Depends on the gun. Under 10 rounds capacity I'll top up the mag and carry +1. Over ten and it seems like a lot of trouble for a small increase in firepower.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:53 PM
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I carry with a round in the chamber and the mag loaded to capacity. I've worked for two different LE agencies and carried three different types of pistols in the line of duty. All were loaded as described above, by department policy and common sense. This included 1911s, 3rd Gen S&Ws and Glocks.

Personally, I've never had an issue seating a full mag with the slide closed. Some guns-mag combos may have taken more force than others but none have required more that a firm smack to seat the mag.


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Old 08-24-2017, 11:28 PM
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I'm generally carrying one of my two Glock 19s and I always have the +1 in the magazine and one in the pipe giving me 16 rounds.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:53 PM
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I don't carry semiautos. Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?


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Old 08-25-2017, 01:29 AM
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A full mag would be common sense, sensible and prudent, Much as filling your gas tank to maximum when crossing the desert at night. Both give me a specific end point, which helps me to prepare for known situations, and may serve as a life saver, depending on the situation I am presented with. True, you can load 1,2,3 or more short, but if your specific firearm accepts a full mag, ( which you checked before carrying, with live fire ) why would you load it down?? You can if you choose, but that brings us back to the desert when you only put 250 miles worth of fuel only to find detour that you need 310 miles secondary to detours!! Be Safe,
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Old 08-25-2017, 01:40 AM
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Apples to oranges, it is like comparing drinking one beer to drinking a case because your bladder can hold a case of beer.
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Old 08-25-2017, 01:50 AM
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Always carry +1.
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:06 AM
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So if there's a gun/mag combo where it's really difficult to seat a fully loaded mag, how does that impact your spare mags? Do you load your spare -1 just in case you have to do a tactical reload on a closed slide?

I will confess I've never really given this much thought, but now that I do it sure seems harder to seat a full mag on Glocks than most other guns. Now I'm wondering about stressing those tiny frame rails.
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:09 AM
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Always....
Yes, Always!
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:32 AM
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So if there's a gun/mag combo where it's really difficult to seat a fully loaded mag, how does that impact your spare mags? Do you load your spare -1 just in case you have to do a tactical reload on a closed slide?
In my case, yes, that's what I did. Glock 23 mags loaded with 12 rounds instead of 13.
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:39 AM
N4KVE N4KVE is offline
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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I always fill the mag, & then rack the slide, so yes, -1, but I always carry an extra mag. GARY
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by howie0810 View Post
The common "myth" if you will is that carrying a full magazine will eventually lead to wear on the spring that feeds the magazine. I have heard some say that that will cause future failure to load rounds through your mag, and some say that will cause no issues. I always carry my 16+1 full and consistently have no issues firing the entire magazine. If I ever do feel like the spring is weakening, I will buy a new mag... they are relatively cheap and that +1 bullet might be the one you end up needing the most.
Just yesterday I heard a gunstore hero advising a woman (new buyer with a prior CPL course behind her) against buying a semiauto for self defense unless she was willing to do as he did and completely unload the magazine every evening (he was carrying a 1911) because leaving it loaded would stress the mag spring and lead to a FTL should she ever use it for self-defense.

I can think of many reasons to suggest a revolver to a beginning shooter. This was not one.

A few years ago I "inherited" a semi-auto that was purchased new in 1988 by an officer who carried all 3 mags fully loaded for the next 20 years. AFAIK the only time the mags were emptied was during twice annual qualification. I had a few FTF events while trying it out. Replaced the mag springs (and as a precaution, all the springs in the pistol) and it has run flawlessly ever since. I intend to repeat the procedure in 10 years, since 20 seems to be just a hair too long.
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:22 PM
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No, I download my mags one round.
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:51 PM
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My EDC is a 640, but I'll occasionally switch up for my Star Super. Its mag holds 9, so even though there's no "feed jam" at +1, I feel adequately equipped just chambering the top round to gear up to Condition One. And, like Gary, I always carry a spare.

Larry
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Old 08-25-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lebomm View Post
My EDC is a 640, but I'll occasionally switch up for my Star Super. Its mag holds 9, so even though there's no "feed jam" at +1, I feel adequately equipped just chambering the top round to gear up to Condition One. And, like Gary, I always carry a spare.

Larry
I have a Star Super also, proofed in 1947. I do carry it +1, but would not feel outgunned with -1. Darn good handgun, shame they are no longer manufactured.
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Old 08-26-2017, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
load the magazine, rack the slide, decock, then remove the magazine and load a round back in for maximum firepower.
Seems like a lot of effort for one round.

I don't bother, if it comes down to one round I brought the wrong gun anyway

ETA I also want to clarify that I carry a Glock 19 and 2 reloads
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Old 08-26-2017, 02:23 PM
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Some who are dead because they didn't carry one in the chamber:
This is Why You Carry With A Round in the Chamber! | Active Self Protection - YouTube
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Old 08-26-2017, 03:41 PM
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I always carried +1 for duty use. However, I didn't like the wear on the brass & possibly feed lips from constantly cycling the same round. So I loaded my +1 from a spare mag & then inserted the full duty mag.
Duty mags were inspected for case shifting within & rotated between mag pouches & gun weekly though I never found an issue... just how I was taught. The top up round was periodically used up in practice & replaced. At each qualification the duty ammo was shot up & the duty mags switched with spares.
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker800 View Post
Some who are dead because they didn't carry one in the chamber:
This is Why You Carry With A Round in the Chamber! | Active Self Protection - YouTube
Good thing tha's NOT what this thread is about
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:00 PM
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Always have and always will plus a spare magazine.
Never had any issues with S&Ws, Colts, Walthers, Sigs, Berettas, BHPs, Rugers and even the DB380 which was gifted to me.
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:28 PM
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Talking Just one more reason not to own or carry a Glock ..

First reason is plastic construction, second is striker fired, third is hideous looks.



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Old 09-07-2017, 05:44 PM
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I always top off, no problems.
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Old 09-08-2017, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
Seems like a lot of effort for one round.

I don't bother, if it comes down to one round I brought the wrong gun anyway

ETA I also want to clarify that I carry a Glock 19 and 2 reloads
"A lot of effort"... Really? Yeah, getting out of bed every day is "a lot of effort". Sheesh!

For those of us that have 3rd gen 9mm pistols with the 8-shot magazine, that ninth round is nice to have.
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:52 AM
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Sheesh..........forum........the debate will probably outlast us all.

Remember the originator of the "Zero MINUS 1" round who was actually famous for quite awhile, and long, long before the Internet.

He was a rugged, tough cop.....so rugged and tough that his "agency" placed a restriction on him and his revolver. He was not allowed ANY rounds in the revolver, and only 1 round in his pocket!

Think I recall his name as Barney Fife who was a LEO somewhere in the backwoods of North Carolina...Mayberry or some such.

Plus 1, minus 1, no carry at all, carry a Garand or BAR?......as others have posted...do what you feel best qualified to do and are comfortable with.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:27 PM
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"-1"
7 total. 5 is plenty, 7 is 40% atop plenty. No spare magazine either.
"Let my armies be the rocks and the trees and the birds in the sky" :-)
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:42 PM
SOTVEN SOTVEN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawker800 View Post
Some who are dead because they didn't carry one in the chamber:
This is Why You Carry With A Round in the Chamber! | Active Self Protection - YouTube
I am sorry for the loss of such people, but i think the OP asks not if the chamber is loaded or not, rather if the magazine is topped off or not. I assumed the chamber is full??
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:58 PM
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I would question the credentials of this "instructor". Obviously, he has never seen this occur nor has anyone else. I was a chief firearms Instructor for a major state agency and also taught officers from other departments for 6 years. I have never seen nor heard of anyone having this kind of problem. Also as a certified armorer on most major brands and having built custom pistols for some 30 years have never heard of this occuring to anyone. So as Jack O'Connor put it..I think.."he is full of prunes," for want of a better phrase.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:05 PM
MG34/bar MG34/bar is offline
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Back in 1964 when my unit was issued the early M16 rifles with 20 rd mags, we quickly learned that the rifles were marginally reliable when fully loaded (bolt closed on 1st rd, and full 20 rds in the mag) so when we went to Vietnam in July, 1965 (101st Airborne) everyone loaded first rd in the chamber and 19 reds in the mag.
Some weapons are well known to need a "download" in the mag for reliability, such as the Bren Gun (manuals say to load no more than 28 rds in the 30 rd mags) and I still load one down out of habit, as complete reliability is far more important to me that having 11 rds in the handgun rather that 10 rds. YMMV.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firescout View Post
"A lot of effort"... Really? Yeah, getting out of bed every day is "a lot of effort". Sheesh!

For those of us that have 3rd gen 9mm pistols with the 8-shot magazine, that ninth round is nice to have.
Then maybe you should carry a reload
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