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  #101  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:13 PM
firescout firescout is offline
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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Then maybe you should carry a reload
Naw... too much effort.
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  #102  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:53 PM
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Default I do now...

I do now. Circumstances have changed and I change with them.
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  #103  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:05 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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I carried a BHP for over 40 years and it was what Cooper called 'Condition One'--(Cocked and Locked) with a round in the chamber and 13 in the clip.
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  #104  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:07 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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the only semi-auto pistols I own are SW 3rd. gens. and HK's....I always carry +1......only because none of those will hold +2
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  #105  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:47 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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It's reasonable that a pistol's "magazine capacity" should be its capacity in the pistol or not. Why would they quote a magazine capacity then expect you to not load it to capacity? It would be like saying "This minivan seats 8 people, but you can only put 7 in it, if you're driving". Or "This pickup can haul half a ton, but you should really only put 1/4 ton in it".

With the metallurgy of toady, a modern pistol with a quality magazine having this kind of issue is a little hard to swallow. I have never seen it and I am not going to give up a round based on hearsay.
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  #106  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:09 AM
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the only semi-auto pistols I own are SW 3rd. gens. and HK's....I always carry +1......only because none of those will hold +2
Well with a +2 adapter a 6906 can use 17round mec-gar magazines; +1 in the chamber to get you............................ +6

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  #107  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:24 AM
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I always carry +1.

I can see where the instructor got the idea of only loading the magazine and then chambering a round and leaving the mag -1.

I once read that back in the day, some autoloaders were found to be less reliable if you topped off the magazine to full capacity. The S&W model 39 was one such case, and all ISP troopers were ordered to carry the pistol with 7 rounds in the mag, one in the chamber. The Browning Hi-Power also tended to have problems with feeding if the full 13 rounds were put in the mag, so many folks carried the Hi-Power with 12 in the mag and one in the chamber. I also think that some of the Glock 45 models tend to get too 'crowded' in the mag if you load the mag to full capacity, and the magazine may not seat fully. Some people recommend carrying the Glock 45 models with just 12 in the mag instead of the full 13.

All my pistols are good to go with the full magazine, and I think most today are good to go +1
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  #108  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:50 PM
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Naw... too much effort.
Now let's be honest about what I said. I didn't say "It's too much effort" I said it was an awful lot of effort for one round. Then I said I don't bother because it's not worth the effort to get one more round. Especially given I have THIRTY MORE on my belt.

If you're that concerned about the capacity of your sidearm that you think that one more round is going to make a critical difference you need a firearm with greater capacity.
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  #109  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:10 PM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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All the time no matter what I am carrying
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  #110  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:47 PM
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When 8 round 1911 magazines became available.....

I just run one into the chamber and go with the seven in the mag.

.
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  #111  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:40 PM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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I watched the Outdoor Channel a little while ago where they had a show on Israeli weapons. They do not carry +1. They learn to rack the slide as they draw. The right hand draws, arm extends, and as the arm is extending and the gun being brought to site the target, the left hand grips the slide as the right hand extends to rack the slide. They did a time comparison both ways. +1 vs. empty chamber. The empty chamber won because there was no need to flip the safety lever on the +1.
The Israeli's , both military and civilians practice this method because it's safer while walking around in crowds.
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  #112  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:33 PM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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I watched the Outdoor Channel a little while ago where they had a show on Israeli weapons. They do not carry +1. They learn to rack the slide as they draw. The right hand draws, arm extends, and as the arm is extending and the gun being brought to site the target, the left hand grips the slide as the right hand extends to rack the slide. They did a time comparison both ways. +1 vs. empty chamber. The empty chamber won because there was no need to flip the safety lever on the +1.
The Israeli's , both military and civilians practice this method because it's safer while walking around in crowds.
No.

Time to post this again

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When the Israeli Defense Force was originally formed back in the 40s, they were armed with whatever weapons they, as a nation, could quickly acquire. This meant that their pistols were a mish-mash of different designs. Some single action, some double action, some with safeties, and some without. Many were not drop safe. Many did not have holsters.

They needed one simple method to train a large number of people, many of them inexperienced in the use of arms, regardless of what weapon they had. The result was to carry with the chamber empty and rack on the draw. This method:

1) works regardless of the gun's design (SA, DA, safety, no safety)
2) prevents a non-drop-safe gun from going off if dropped (a real possibility when you just stick it in your waistband because you don't have a holster)
3) avoids the possibility of someone not accustomed to a safety sticking a loaded, cocked, and unlocked single action into their waistband

It is important to note that this method IS A COMPROMISE.

There is no tactical advantage to be gained from carrying this way. In fact there is a tactical disadvantage, because it requires both hands. With a modern firearm, there is no safety advantage to be gained from carrying chamber empty, either. (One possible exception to this is someone trying to shoot you with your own gun, but if you are planning your carry method based on someone stealing your concealed gun from you before you can react, perhaps you should reconsider carrying a gun.)

If you need to use a gun in self defense, you're already behind the curve because:
A) You didn't see the situation coming in time to avoid it.
B) You weren't able to find and take an escape from the situation once it started.
C) You weren't able to control or de-escalate the situation before a gun became your only option.
D) You need a gun RIGHT NOW.
E) Your gun is still in its holster (because you don't draw before you need it, right?)

Why put yourself at a further disadvantage by having that holstered gun unloaded as well?

You are not a member of the IDF. You are not mandated to carry your gun in a less-than-optimal manner. Why would you choose to handicap yourself this way? Why would you carry in a manner that may require more hands than you'll have available? That takes more time to deploy? That precludes the ability to fire from retention? That requires putting the gun out there in a place that's bad for retention?

The Israelis don't carry chamber empty because it's tacti-cool. It was a compromise that gained a bit of needed safety at the cost of tactical advantage. Today, now that they have standardized, modern pistols, many Israelis (like SWAT and Special Forces units) do carry with a loaded chamber.
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  #113  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:32 PM
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Cool

Full mag + 1 in the pipe.....always, cocked and locked....
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  #114  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:01 PM
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Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I don't worry a whole lot about it either way and if your gun doesn't cycle properly with one in the chamber and a full magazine there's probably something wrong with it.

And by sometimes I don't, I mean that as in I don't always top off the magazine after chambering a round.

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  #115  
Old 09-14-2017, 03:49 PM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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Now let's be honest about what I said. I didn't say "It's too much effort" I said it was an awful lot of effort for one round. Then I said I don't bother because it's not worth the effort to get one more round. Especially given I have THIRTY MORE on my belt.

If you're that concerned about the capacity of your sidearm that you think that one more round is going to make a critical difference you need a firearm with greater capacity.
Well, here in Calif, virtually all of the semi-auto pistols are limited to 10 round or less magazines, for non-LE persons. So, a Glock 17 becomes a 10+1 pistol. With a pistol that normally uses an 8 round magazine (S&W 3913 and the like), that extra round in the pipe is nice to have. I don't count on being able to reload during an armed encounter, so one should be very confident in their handgun's initial ammo capacity.

I look at it this way: You are leaving on a long road trip through a very rural region. You are fueling up near your home before leaving. Do you fill your vehicle's tank, or just put in 3/4 or 7/8 of a tank?
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  #116  
Old 09-14-2017, 03:55 PM
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Well, here in Calif, virtually all of the semi-auto pistols are limited to 10 round or less magazines, for non-LE persons. So, a Glock 17 becomes a 10+1 pistol. With a pistol that normally uses an 8 round magazine (S&W 3913 and the like), that extra round in the pipe is nice to have. I don't count on being able to reload during an armed encounter, so one should be very confident in their handgun's initial ammo capacity.

I look at it this way: You are leaving on a long road trip through a very rural region. You are fueling up near your home before leaving. Do you fill your vehicle's tank, or just put in 3/4 or 7/8 of a tank?
Again, if it all comes down to one round you picked the wrong gun to begin with
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  #117  
Old 09-14-2017, 03:56 PM
firescout firescout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by len917 View Post
I watched the Outdoor Channel a little while ago where they had a show on Israeli weapons. They do not carry +1. They learn to rack the slide as they draw. The right hand draws, arm extends, and as the arm is extending and the gun being brought to site the target, the left hand grips the slide as the right hand extends to rack the slide. They did a time comparison both ways. +1 vs. empty chamber. The empty chamber won because there was no need to flip the safety lever on the +1.
The Israeli's , both military and civilians practice this method because it's safer while walking around in crowds.
You are missing the point of this thread. It is not about carrying empty chamber vs loaded chamber. It is about carrying with a full magazine and a loaded chamber vs a magazine with one round short (from loading it into the chamber) and a loaded chamber.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:01 PM
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I look at it this way: You are leaving on a long road trip through a very rural region. You are fueling up near your home before leaving. Do you fill your vehicle's tank, or just put in 3/4 or 7/8 of a tank?
Since I never buy gas with a credit card, & only pay cash, I give the gas station attendant a $20 bill, hoping it fills the tank. But if it only goes to 7/8 of a tank, that's all I'm getting. GARY
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:03 PM
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Again, if it all comes down to one round you picked the wrong gun to begin with
Easy for someone to say when you can legally carry a 15-17 round magazine. How is carrying a Glock 17 'picking the wrong gun'?
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:22 PM
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I look at it this way: You are leaving on a long road trip through a very rural region. You are fueling up near your home before leaving. Do you fill your vehicle's tank, or just put in 3/4 or 7/8 of a tank?
I lift the hood, and fill the air cleaner, and carburetor with fuel also.


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Since I never buy gas with a credit card, & only pay cash, I give the gas station attendant a $20 bill, hoping it fills the tank. But if it only goes to 7/8 of a tank, that's all I'm getting. GARY
Just how small is your gas tank, are you talking about a motorcycle?

Last edited by Walkingwolf; 09-14-2017 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:26 PM
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It's reasonable that a pistol's "magazine capacity" should be its capacity in the pistol or not. Why would they quote a magazine capacity then expect you to not load it to capacity? It would be like saying "This minivan seats 8 people, but you can only put 7 in it, if you're driving". Or "This pickup can haul half a ton, but you should really only put 1/4 ton in it".

With the metallurgy of toady, a modern pistol with a quality magazine having this kind of issue is a little hard to swallow. I have never seen it and I am not going to give up a round based on hearsay.
Some of the older military surplus 1911 magazines would hold only 7 rounds, but they would not seat unless the slide was to the rear. IOW it was impossible to carry +1.

I pretty much go by the guns manual, or how they market their handgun. Most all of the gun manufacturers market +1 capacity. One company for sure does not.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:38 PM
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With the metallurgy of toady, a modern pistol with a quality magazine having this kind of issue is a little hard to swallow. I have never seen it and I am not going to give up a round based on hearsay.
This my friend would be true, if today's pistol frames in general had anything to do with metal. Or their magazine catches too. Oh, and magazines themselves in certain instances. So, when a pistol frame these days may fluctuate in size depending on weather conditions and outside temperature, all could be possible. :-)
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:39 PM
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Easy for someone to say when you can legally carry a 15-17 round magazine. How is carrying a Glock 17 'picking the wrong gun'?
i think you just answered your own question!!! hahahaha!!! just kidding friend! :-)
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:40 PM
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Since I never buy gas with a credit card, & only pay cash, I give the gas station attendant a $20 bill, hoping it fills the tank. But if it only goes to 7/8 of a tank, that's all I'm getting. GARY

hahahahaha!!!! you are not the onlyone!!! ;-)
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:25 PM
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about a century ago, most military forces switched from revolvers to pistols, simply because ease of reloading. The pistol since then, remained a "side arm", and I think its safe to assume that "side arm" means secondary, as in "side dish." Throughout the wars that took place around the globe in the years that followed, most battle rifles were refined and made it to our days with magazine capacities of 20 most of the time. Now, keep in mind, that the battle rifle is "THE" primary arm. And shoots twenty!???!! In the war??!!! yet, for some reason, a pistol, still beeing a side arm, has to hold about a box of bullets to be acceptable. If this makes any sense, then I ask where did we go wrong??? lol!! :-)
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:55 PM
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No.

Time to post this again

Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:16 PM
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Easy for someone to say when you can legally carry a 15-17 round magazine. How is carrying a Glock 17 'picking the wrong gun'?

Before I say anything else let me clarify that I never said you shouldn't load +1, I said I don't

I'd also like to clarify that I don't waste time loading +1 regardless of what I'm carrying. LC9 (7) 4006 (11) Glock 19 (15) M&P (17). One round isn't going to change the outcome (IMO).

If one more round makes you feel better (because that's all it's going to do) by all means load it up.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:17 PM
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One in the chamber in my Shield in my pocket holster. One in chamber in my full size M&P in my nightstand safe. Anything else is "unarmed." After one in the chamber, then top off the magazine. Especially with the Shield, since it only holds 8 rounds.

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Old 09-14-2017, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
...If one more round makes you feel better (because that's all it's going to do) by all means load it up.
I believe there are quite a few people here (participating in this thread) who would disagree with your assessment, especially those with single-column magazine pistols. If the gun is designed or advertised for a +1 capacity, why not use it?
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:26 PM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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Originally Posted by firescout View Post
I believe there are quite a few people here (participating in this thread) who would disagree with your assessment, especially those with single-column magazine pistols. If the gun is designed or advertised for a +1 capacity, why not use it?
As I've stated multiple times I don't use it because to me the effort isn't worth the (potential) reward.

If you want to load +1 knock yourself out.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:10 PM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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I have always topped off my semi-auto pistols including Glock and M&P and have never had a problem. I have read on forums that some guns don't like it but I have never had an issue. And if I ever do have an issue, I'll send it in under warranty repair.
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Old 09-15-2017, 02:16 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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I always carry +1. But here's one situation where the BG didn't and the LEO prevailed because of it.
New Mexico Officer Has Only a Split Second to Save His Life | Active Self Protection - YouTube
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:57 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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I always carry +1. But here's one situation where the BG didn't and the LEO prevailed because of it.
New Mexico Officer Has Only a Split Second to Save His Life | Active Self Protection - YouTube
No, just no. Did you even watch the video?

There is absolutely nothing in this video that indicates that that the badguy even fired a shot much less that he emptied his magazine.

There's also no indication that the cop was carrying +1 although it's likely. What the cop did do was reload once he got back to the car because he had expended some (but not all) of his ammunition.

But I though there wasn't time to reload in a fight
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:37 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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Topping off with an extra round is not something I am concerned with. Though some "high-capacity" handguns reside here, I choose to tote 1911 guns if I want to carry an automatic. I'm content with a 7-round magazine loaded up with a spare on hand.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:09 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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The operative word in the OP is "instructor". Instructors are aware that they may need to eat their words in a courtroom some day. There are plenty of knuckleheads out there that could create a dangerous situation by mishandling a weapon, so this might be a conditioned CYA on his part. We still have a choice how we carry. I carry an extra mag and forego the +1 loading gymnastics.

Last edited by URIT; 09-18-2017 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:29 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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I have worked for two police departments and have been issued Glock 17, 22 and 23 during various phases of my career. We always carried and trained with full mags without issue.
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