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Old 08-24-2017, 10:36 AM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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Default Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?

I was talking to a pistol instructor friend of mine where he advised me to not carry "+1" in my semi-autos. I've never had any trouble carrying +1 in my Sig P232 in hundreds of rounds through it.
Just wondering what the consensus was on whether to carry +1 or not.


An example:
For example, if your magazine is a 10-round magazine when crammed absolutely full, you've got 1 in the chamber and 10 in the magazine, for a total of 11 rounds.
He was saying to load the magazine full, insert it, chamber a round, and leave it be. So, in my above example the gun would be stoked with 10 rounds - 1 in the chamber and 9 remaining in the magazine.

Last edited by Triggernosis; 08-24-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:41 AM
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Always....
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:47 AM
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My carry KelTec PF9 mag holds only 7 rounds, so an extra round in the chamber helps.
Once you get used to the fact there is a round in the chamber,
you are more at ease with it.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:52 AM
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You mean with a round in chamber? Yes! I would have serious doubts about the qualifications of any "pistol instructor" who says not to. If you are proficient with your firearm it is perfectly safe to have a round chambered. If you're not confident that you are proficient , then don't carry at all. When you see cops in movies chambering a round before they engage a bad guy, that is Hollywood bunk. They are always loaded to capacity with a round chambered.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggernosis View Post
carry "+1"
carried and stored +1.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:03 AM
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Absolutely!! A semi auto is useless until there is a round in the chamber and in a critical situation racking one in takes way too long, not to mention the noise it makes.

Bob
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:14 AM
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Yes.

I think he means topping off the mag

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Old 08-24-2017, 11:32 AM
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Arik is correct, at least from what I have always heard. +1 refers to topping off the mag with another round after a round is chambered, which gives you your full magazine capacity...+1 (the one in the chamber).

And yes, I agree with +1 carry.

Fox
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:32 AM
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Depends on the mag, mostly. Good example is the two mags that came with my Shield. When the sixth round is inserted in the 6 round mag, there is room for about another half a round. In the 7 round mag the seventh round meets didtinctly added resistance during the last part of insertion. I interpret that increased resistance as extra stress on the spring. I don't want the spring under that stress for long periods, so I don't replace that seventh round after chambering it.

Yeah I know what you're thinking - I'm a wuss so I think the spring is a wuss too. Hah.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VThillman View Post
Depends on the mag, mostly. Good example is the two mags that came with my Shield. When the sixth round is inserted in the 6 round mag, there is room for about another half a round. In the 7 round mag the seventh round meets didtinctly added resistance during the last part of insertion. I interpret that increased resistance as extra stress on the spring. I don't want the spring under that stress for long periods, so I don't replace that seventh round after chambering it.

Yeah I know what you're thinking - I'm a wuss so I think the spring is a wuss too. Hah.
Don't over think it. Springs wear out from use not from compression. A lot of mags in 45acp tend to be hard when inserting the last round. All my Glock 21 mags are like that yet they never failed

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Old 08-24-2017, 11:40 AM
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I'm in agreement with VTHillman's above comment.

It really depends on whether the magazine and pistol combination are designed for a +1 load out.

Some designs don't have enough room to allow the top round in a full magazine to be compressed further, as is required when the slide is in battery.

That said, I carry +1 all the time, as I won't carry a pistol that can't be loaded to +1 capacity.

It's more than just a capacity issue. If it won't accommodate a +1 load in an administrative reload, it won't tolerate one in a tactical reload either where you may be dropping an empty or nearly empty magazine and reloading with a round constantly in the chamber. An inability to easily insert and positively seat a full magazine into the pistol with the slide already in battery is a serious tactical disadvantage.

Last edited by BB57; 08-24-2017 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:44 AM
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Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto? Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggernosis View Post
I was talking to a pistol instructor friend of mine where he advised me to not carry "+1" in my semi-autos. I've never had any trouble carrying +1 in my Sig P232 in hundreds of rounds through it.
Just wondering what the consensus was on whether to carry +1 or not.
What was his flawed logic for this advice?
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:55 AM
Triggernosis Triggernosis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait View Post
You mean with a round in chamber? Yes! I would have serious doubts about the qualifications of any "pistol instructor" who says not to. If you are proficient with your firearm it is perfectly safe to have a round chambered. If you're not confident that you are proficient , then don't carry at all. When you see cops in movies chambering a round before they engage a bad guy, that is Hollywood bunk. They are always loaded to capacity with a round chambered.

Not just a round in the chamber, but one in the chamber AND a full magazine. For example, if your magazine is a 10-round magazine when crammed absolutely full, you've got 1 in the chamber and 10 in the magazine, for a total of 11 rounds.
He was saying to load the magazine full, insert it, chamber a round, and leave it be. So, in my above example the gun would be stoked with 10 rounds - 1 in the chamber and 9 remaining in the magazine.


I will edit my original post to reflect what I'm talking about.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Yes.

I think he means topping off the mag
Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
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What was his flawed logic for this advice?
He was saying that the first round in a full magazine sometimes puts too much pressure on the slide above it and may result in the slide not being able to freely move upon firing and eject the fired casing and pick up the new round.
I've never had any trouble in that regards with my P232 or my 92FS. Must be those danged Flocks he's so fond of....
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:01 PM
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Ok. I would still suggest topping off your magazine.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
It really depends on whether the magazine and pistol combination are designed for a +1 load out.

Some designs don't have enough room to allow the top round in a full magazine to be compressed further, as is required when the slide is in battery.
And how does one determine whether a particular gun is designed for +1 load out?
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:09 PM
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I think the instructor is projecting a problem which I have never seen or heard of actually existing. The chambered round and the first round of a magazine are not in close contact. If a topped off magazine were to impair the slide then it would be a design defect in the gun because if it did that it would be not not recooomended to place a full magazine in the gun even if you did not chamber a round. His words make no sense .
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:09 PM
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Any quality firearm will be designed for full capacity carry. If you have one that won't, contact customer service.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait View Post
Any quality firearm will be designed for full capacity carry. If you have one that won't, contact customer service.
I'd expect that also.

Just beware of how often you chamber a round in case of setback, and keep a full mag and a round chambered.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:21 PM
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The Shield manual evens tells you how to reload the magazine after you chamber a round, if you want to top it up. I always carry to full capacity.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggernosis View Post
He was saying that the first round in a full magazine sometimes puts too much pressure on the slide above it and may result in the slide not being able to freely move upon firing and eject the fired casing and pick up the new round.
I've never had any trouble in that regards with my P232 or my 92FS. Must be those danged Flocks he's so fond of....
I have owned Glocks since the 90's. Never had this issue. I think he is seriously misinformed and probably should get some proper training before instructing others and you should probably disregard his advice.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:27 PM
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Absolutely
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:35 PM
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Some gun manufacturers do not list +1 in capacity, most do. Glock does not, not in their manual, not in any catalog. One of the big problems that Glock had was broken frame rails, it cost a deputy his life. If I carry a Glock I carry a round chambered, but do not carry with the magazine topped off. The stress on the gun is obvious when inserting the magazine, or racking the slide. I always lock the slide back, insert a magazine, and let the slide ram home, then carry. On the 1911 I carry +1, there is no obvious difference between a topped off 1911, and mag that has -1. The rails on a 1911 are much more robust. So far Glocks are the only guns I have seen with this problem, for me 16 rounds compared to 15 rounds, or a broken gun when it is needed most is clear. YMMV

Time to go pop some popcorn now.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:41 PM
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One reason I picked the Remington 380 for my pocket pistol is because it has an aluminum lower not polymer. The the rails are machined into the lower and run the entire length not just a the four rail contact points in polymer guns.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait View Post
Any quality firearm will be designed for full capacity carry. If you have one that won't, contact customer service.
They will clearly put it in their manual. Some of the military surplus 1911 mags are designed not to seat with a full mag on the slide forward. IOW capacity can be no more than seven. I have one of those mags, the mag is always used for a reload as opposed to carry.

Glock frame rails break under extreme stress, the cycling does not stress them, but a mag rammed home that has NO play does. On new Glock mags it is darn near impossible to load the last round without a loader.

It all boils down to personal choice. If I needed that one more round if the gun already holds 10 or more rounds, then I will probably be a victim if I can't stop the threat with less than 10 rounds. If the rails break on my Glock when I need it I will end up like the officer that lost his life when he needed his.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
Some gun manufacturers do not list +1 in capacity, most do. Glock does not, not in their manual, not in any catalog. One of the big problems that Glock had was broken frame rails, it cost a deputy his life. If I carry a Glock I carry a round chambered, but do not carry with the magazine topped off. The stress on the gun is obvious when inserting the magazine, or racking the slide. I always lock the slide back, insert a magazine, and let the slide ram home, then carry. On the 1911 I carry +1, there is no obvious difference between a topped off 1911, and mag that has -1. The rails on a 1911 are much more robust. So far Glocks are the only guns I have seen with this problem, for me 16 rounds compared to 15 rounds, or a broken gun when it is needed most is clear. YMMV

Time to go pop some popcorn now.
The frame rail problem was a small percentage manufatcured from 01 to 02:

GLOCK Frame Rails

Just like Colt had a recall back in 08 that caused an issue with their 1911's.

Just thought I would point that out. Seeing you want to attack an entire line as I can probably find a recall or issue with any line.

If it makes you feel better I can post videos of my 12 year old girl loading brand new gen 4 mags to capacity without a loader and with no strain or issue.

I am sorry for the loss of the deputy. Can you link to the story?

Last edited by eb07; 08-24-2017 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:47 PM
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Small problem is pretty big when your life is on the line.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:54 PM
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Small problem is pretty big when your life is on the line.
So I have had a smith revolver fail and lock up because it went out of time. It could have cost me me life if I had to use it for self defense.

Should I bash the whole line? No.It is a logical fallacy.

In all honesty and personal experience.

I do many many classes for pistol with high round count and Glocks seem to be the ones that never have the issues and or hold up the class. 1911 owners are the ones that always hold the class up with FTE and FTF. I don't bash the 1911 platform simply because of this.

All firearms can fail and if you are carrying one in a capacity where it may be needed to save your life someday. Crane screes back out, frames stretch and crack, pins wear out, springs fail, it is your responsibility to clean and inspect it properly on a weekly if not daily basis before bringing it into service.


Please stop with the logical fallacies like the one the OP's friend told him.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:55 PM
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"Do you carry "+1" in your semi-auto?"

31+1, always.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eb07 View Post
So I have had a smith revolver fail and lock up because it went out of time. It could have cost me me life if I had to use it for self defense.

Should I bash the whole line? No.It is a logical fallacy.

In all honesty and personal experience.

I do many many classes for pistol with high round count and Glocks seem to be the ones that never have the issues and or hold up the class. 1911 owners are the ones that always hold the class up with FTE and FTF. I don't bash the 1911 platform simply because of this.

All firearms can fail and if you are carrying one in a capacity where it may be needed to save your life someday. Crane screes back out, frames stretch and crack, pins wear out, springs fail, it is your responsibility to clean and inspect it properly on a weekly if not daily basis before bringing it into service.


Please stop with the logical fallacies like the one the OP's friend told him.
Personal choice, it is tough pill to swallow. It also will be less stressful life if a person respects others personal choice, and their reasons. I personally don't care how you carry, nothing I can do about it anyway. Same goes for others, they can object to any legal activity I do, but it won't do them a lick of good.

Just in case +1 is not enough to get the job done.



Darn I am going through a lot of popcorn.

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Old 08-24-2017, 01:11 PM
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No popcorn, just trying to inject some common sense. Carry on.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eb07 View Post
No popcorn, just trying to inject some common sense. Carry on.
Ohhh, you mean like controlling others common sense. Sorry I didn't understand.

BTW the only gun out of dozens of guns I have owned to break out of the box was a Glock. My wife's Glock 22 broke a frame rail after only ten rounds of factory ammo. Glock repaired it under warranty, sent it back, and she sold it. My Glocks now reside in the safe.

Only revolver I have had break was a FIE E15(zamak) after over 5K rounds. The FIE cost only 30 bucks, the Glock much more. The CS from Glock did ask if the gun was loaded "+1".

You do it your way, I will do it mine. I certainly do not feel under gunned with a revolver, or a 1911. My wife carries a Witness Pavona, and yes she carries it +1, it is cataloged for +1 carry. I has gone through now only a few hundred rounds, but that is much more than the Glock.

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Old 08-24-2017, 01:17 PM
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Default Magazine Test Needed.

Talking spare magazines: if you cannot insert a fully loaded magazine under a CLOSED SLIDE, then perhaps that magazine should be carried one round short of capacity as the more common tactical reload is done under a closed slide to return the gun to full capacity as soon as practical.

If your magazine will almost but not quite accept yet another round, then the manufacturer has left you a bit of compression space for the tactical reload. If you can do a tactical reload, you may carry your gun with a full magazine plus one up the tube.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:31 PM
nachogrande nachogrande is offline
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Default NOT 100% CERTAIN OF YOUR INSTRUCTORS CONCERNS.

Is it about a "safety" issue of carrying with one in the chamber, OR some type of mechanical reasoning of having one in the chamber AND a full mag in the pistol at the same time? TEHO, I go full mag +1 when carrying, or in a SD type role. In the safe, gun unloaded with no mag in it. SAME WAY all the time.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:33 PM
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I think this comes from urban legend, that some manufacturers don't explicitly mention the idea of topping off in their instructions, and just list magazine capacity in their specifications. Some infer from this that the manufacturer doesn't approve of topping off. Or this could come from the old school mentality of making the case that semi-autos aren't reliable, so that school of thought makes up the excuse that there's going to be so much friction from the top round in the magazine it will slow down the slide and cause a jam.

As long as your pistol can physically accept a fully loaded magazine with the slide forward without resorting to bashing the magazine in and deforming the top round, I don't think there is going to be any problem with +1.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:40 PM
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I never carry my revolvers +1, always carry my 1911 +1, just don't carry my Glocks. If I did though, 15 rounds for the 22, and 10 for the 37 is more than enough. I am plenty comfortable with 8 rounds in a 1911.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triggernosis View Post
I was talking to a pistol instructor friend of mine where he advised me to not carry "+1" in my semi-autos. I've never had any trouble carrying +1 in my Sig P232 in hundreds of rounds through it.
Just wondering what the consensus was on whether to carry +1 or not.


An example:
For example, if your magazine is a 10-round magazine when crammed absolutely full, you've got 1 in the chamber and 10 in the magazine, for a total of 11 rounds.
He was saying to load the magazine full, insert it, chamber a round, and leave it be. So, in my above example the gun would be stoked with 10 rounds - 1 in the chamber and 9 remaining in the magazine.
The common "myth" if you will is that carrying a full magazine will eventually lead to wear on the spring that feeds the magazine. I have heard some say that that will cause future failure to load rounds through your mag, and some say that will cause no issues. I always carry my 16+1 full and consistently have no issues firing the entire magazine. If I ever do feel like the spring is weakening, I will buy a new mag... they are relatively cheap and that +1 bullet might be the one you end up needing the most.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eb07 View Post
I think he is seriously misinformed and probably should get some proper training before instructing others and you should probably disregard his advice.

He IS very young (29, I believe) and inexperienced and I'm sure he has a lot to learn. He's been teaching Concealed Carry classes for the past two years and, while I respect his judgment and weapons-handling skills, I would rather take instruction from someone who's "been there" when it comes to such things.


FWIW, I intended to disregard his advice all along unless the majority here said otherwise, for a reason that made sense to me.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:53 PM
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IIRC..... it's been awhile.........................

It was written on the internet so it must be true...........

SAS when they were still carrying the Browning Hi-Power ....... only carried with 12 or 13 in the gun including the one in the chamber.....for "better reliability"...........

Truth or fiction....................I don't know.

See Federali's comments.........

I generally carry full mag +1 in Beretta's Sigs and S&W 3rd Gen with factory magazines ....... or Mec-gar magazines which in hi-caps are +2 over factory.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:54 PM
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You should do what you want to do, as long as it is legal. You could even carry a J frame with only five rounds if you want, or not.

This is a great country, we still have liberty to make personal choices.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
Some gun manufacturers do not list +1 in capacity, most do. Glock does not, not in their manual, not in any catalog. One of the big problems that Glock had was broken frame rails, it cost a deputy his life. If I carry a Glock I carry a round chambered, but do not carry with the magazine topped off. The stress on the gun is obvious when inserting the magazine, or racking the slide.../

/...So far Glocks are the only guns I have seen with this problem, for me 16 rounds compared to 15 rounds, or a broken gun when it is needed most is clear....
We can argue about what models and/or generations of Glocks may be affected by this.

However, there are other pistols out there where the magazine will not easily seat in the well when it is topped off and the slide is in battery. (This can include the 1911, when certain magazines are used)

Anytime a full magazine cannot be seated in the magazine well without having to hit it to get it to seat, it's a very bad thing as it makes the reload difficult and it increases the probability of the magazine not locking in place. +1 loading doesn't do you much good when the magazine falls out after the next shot is fired.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:06 PM
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I always carry +1 in my Glock. Why not?
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB57 View Post
We can argue about what models and/or generations of Glocks may be affected by this.

However, there are other pistols out there where the magazine will not easily seat in the well when it is topped off and the slide is in battery. (This can include the 1911, when certain magazines are used)

Anytime a full magazine cannot be seated in the magazine well without having to hit it to get it to seat, it's a very bad thing as it makes the reload difficult and it increases the probability of the magazine not locking in place. +1 loading doesn't do you much good when the magazine falls out after the next shot is fired.
Glock is the only one I have seen personally with this problem. But I am sure there are others. Seems that single stacks are very easy to load, and insert magazines with slide in battery. As a personal choice I carry all my semi's except the Glocks +1. But I rarely carry the Glocks. Once trust is lost in a gun, for whatever reason I won't carry it.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:36 PM
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How does one get +1 rounds into a revolver?

With auto-loaders, I always carry a full mag +1 in the chamber, just as the guns are designed.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:00 PM
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Even us revolver guys know that!
It's hard to do that with the Wheelgun, so we usually also carry grenades or dynamite.
After I traded for the Beretta 70s, I went in Search mode looking for mags.
I got co-fuse- ed and wound up with a 10 shot vs the regular 8 shot.
Yes it sticks out, but it locks and feeds correctly.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:08 PM
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Always, +1 in the chamber and then top off the mag.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
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How does one get +1 rounds into a revolver?

.
I do it with careful use of a 12/32 drill bit................... LOL

or just buy a 686+; or that 8 shot N-frame!!!!!!
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collects View Post
How does one get +1 rounds into a revolver?

With auto-loaders, I always carry a full mag +1 in the chamber, just as the guns are designed.
One does not, that is the point. Some people choose to carry five shot revolvers, and they are comfortable with that. It is none of my business, nor very bright to tell them how to carry.

I hardly see someone carrying five rounds as a disadvantage for most self defense situations. But then us revolver guys do not do mag dumps.
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Old 08-24-2017, 04:16 PM
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I have a Gen2 LCP w/a Ruger 7 round mag and it works fine, fully stuffed w/7 rounds plus one for a total of 8. Although not carried often it is shot monthly and never a problem.
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