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Old 08-29-2017, 09:58 AM
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Default CS45 It doesnt know its a little gun.

The CS45 shoots as well for me as my larger 4516s and 4513s. I love this little 45. Jus sayin. Regards 18DAI
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:02 AM
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What do you feed it? Any recommendations for a 185gr cartridge?
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:27 AM
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Winchester 230 grain RA45T. I have no experience with the lighter weight 45 rounds, so I cannot give you a recommendation. Sorry! Regards 18DAI
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Old 08-29-2017, 12:14 PM
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Isn't 230gr what Nature intended to be shot in .45ACP pistols? All else risks blasphemy and an eternity in Hades owning only polymer framed semi autos.

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Winchester 230 grain RA45T. I have no experience with the lighter weight 45 rounds, so I cannot give you a recommendation. Sorry! Regards 18DAI
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:57 PM
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Default CS45 It doesnt know its a little gun.

Mine has been good to me so far...


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Old 08-29-2017, 09:15 PM
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I am amazed at how well the CS45 shoots. I have always heard horror stories about short barrelled 45s.




I was so impressed with the CS45 that I took the leap and bought a Colt Defender today..
I guess we'll see if all they say about the reliability of the newer ones is true.

Then will be the decision on which one I like best.. CS45 is in the lead so far.
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Old 08-29-2017, 10:48 PM
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my CS45 is my EDC & I qualify with it once a year for my retired leo carry permit. Never fails to work & plenty accurate. for practice I use a reload of 185 gr lead swc & 3.9 gr Bullseye or 230 gr JHP & 4.6 gr Bullseye. carry round is Federal 230 gr JHP.
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:02 PM
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I was wearing mine in the shop today. Two customers came in looking for compact 45s. They held the XDs45, shield 45 and G36. Neither cared for any of those and were not interested in sub 4.25 barrel 1911s.

So I showed them the CS45. Both wanted to order one. When I told them it was out of print, the one guy pulled out his phone and brought up an auction board. Another gun sold off the internet! Regards 18DAI
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:04 PM
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Like mine so much I've made it my BBQ gun,
dual carry with a CS40 for my left hand
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:11 PM
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Maybe they are finally coming into their own.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:12 PM
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I always liked the CS45 and CS9. They were not really appreciated in their production years.
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:41 AM
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All the Smith DA/SAs and DAOs shoot absurdly well for me. I've literally not found one that would treat me bad.

I'd like to try an Officer or Commander-size 1911, but nobody I'm chummy with has one, and there are far too many Smiths I want more.
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
The CS45 shoots as well for me as my larger 4516s and 4513s. I love this little 45. Jus sayin. Regards 18DAI

LOL I have the same "problem" with my Sig 245's

Another good .45 Carry option..... if you do cocked and locked...... is a "CCO" size 1911..... Officers size frame w/ a 4-4.25 Commander size upper
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by HOUSTON RICK View Post
I always liked the CS45 and CS9. They were not really appreciated in their production years.
Very interesting comment (to me anyway) given the overwhelming success of the similarly compact Shields in the plastic realm.

I was still in my 25-year "deep sleep" in 1998 when the Chief's Specials were introduced and I stayed asleep right through their demise in 2006 with the big switcharoo over to plastic by the mothership. I didn't wake up until the election of a certain anti-2A president in 2008 and even then, my initial focus was all on long guns (which I had just discovered I could shoot with my left arm handicap after all if properly equipped). I really didn't get back into handguns much until the spring and summer of 2013.

So why weren't the CS9 and CS45 better appreciated during their production years? I can think of a few possible answers to that question, but I'd rather hear more about it from members who were wide awake during that late 3rd Gen production era.
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
Another good .45 Carry option..... if you do cocked and locked...... is a "CCO" size 1911..... Officers size frame w/ a 4-4.25 Commander size upper
Almost like a Detonics Combat Master.



Or on a different scale, the Street Master.



1911's always look better in longslide.
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Old 09-01-2017, 07:52 AM
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TTSH...... as a big 39xx fan since their introduction in 89/90 I was excited when I heard about the Chief Specials being introduced................ then I held my first CS9 and was totally underwhelmed.

* Fat rubber (clothes grabbing) grips....no wood grip options
* Short butt; but w/ the 7rd mag and little finger rest...... it was basically the same size as my 39xx guns using the flush fit/steel bottom 7 round factory magazines in my stash.
*Short barrel/slide...... I carry IWB with a Sparks Summer Special.... so no practical difference to me for concealed carry.
* I was already "heavily" invested in the 39xx models... with 3-4 guns (3913,3914 and 3913NL) bunch of magazines and couple of holsters IWB and OWB

* So it came down to; there was NO practical reason to move to the CS guns from the 39xx, 6906s (and Sig 245s to meet my .45 needs) I had!!!!


Wise A.......I moved away from 1911 guns in the late 80s to Sigs......first a W German 220 and later adding the compact 245 to meet my .45 carry needs. About 4-5 years ago I came across a used Sig C3 (custom shop).......CCO....couldn't walk away from such a coooool gun priced at 5 bills

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Old 09-01-2017, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post

So why weren't the CS9 and CS45 better appreciated during their production years? I can think of a few possible answers to that question, but I'd rather hear more about it from members who were wide awake during that late 3rd Gen production era.
I'm interested in hearing some discussion on this issue too.
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:20 AM
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My CS9 went up for sale after I got my early 3913TSW. Same round capacity, better grip, longer barrel (okay, not much longer), and just felt better in my hand. The CS9 was a nice little gun, but as with you, it didn't fit a niche for me.



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TTSH...... as a big 39xx fan since their introduction in 89/90 I was excited when I heard about the Chief Specials being introduced................ then I held my first CS9 and was totally underwhelmed.

* Fat rubber (clothes grabbing) grips....no wood grip options
* Short butt; but w/ the 7rd mag and little finger rest...... it was basically the same size as my 39xx guns using the flush fit/steel bottom 7 round factory magazines in my stash.
*Short barrel/slide...... I carry IWB with a Sparks Summer Special.... so no practical difference to me for concealed carry.
* I was already "heavily" invested in the 39xx models... with 3-4 guns (3913,3914 and 3913NL) bunch of magazines and couple of holsters IWB and OWB

* So it came down to; there was NO practical reason to move to the CS guns from the 39xx, 6906s (and Sig 245s to meet my .45 needs) I had!!!!


Wise A.......I moved away from 1911 guns in the late 80s to Sigs......first a W German 220 and later adding the compact 245 to meet my .45 carry needs. About 4-5 years ago I came across a used Sig C3 (custom shop).......CCO....couldn't walk away from such a coooool gun priced at 5 bills
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
TTSH...... as a big 39xx fan since their introduction in 89/90 I was excited when I heard about the Chief Specials being introduced................ then I held my first CS9 and was totally underwhelmed.

* Fat rubber (clothes grabbing) grips....no wood grip options
* Short butt; but w/ the 7rd mag and little finger rest...... it was basically the same size as my 39xx guns using the flush fit/steel bottom 7 round factory magazines in my stash.
*Short barrel/slide...... I carry IWB with a Sparks Summer Special.... so no practical difference to me for concealed carry.
* I was already "heavily" invested in the 39xx models... with 3-4 guns (3913, 3914 and 3913NL) bunch of magazines and couple of holsters IWB and OWB

* So it came down to; there was NO practical reason to move to the CS guns from the 39xx, 6906s (and Sig 245s to meet my .45 needs) I had!!!!
Got it! I, too, feel that the rubber grips as OEM were a big marketing mistake. I wish that all my CS models had regular 3rd Gen wrap-around grips... although I am too lazy and unskilled to make my own BigDogs.

But your other comments (about what you already owned) don't directly address the gun itself. Comparing it to modern plastic, you already had the M&P9c (closest equivalent) and out came the Shield 9 (equivalent). But Shields sold like popcorn! Even in a world that already had the M&P9c. So why wouldn't the CS9 have done the same... albeit not in your particular case?

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My CS9 went up for sale after I got my early 3913TSW. Same round capacity, better grip, longer barrel (okay, not much longer), and just felt better in my hand. The CS9 was a nice little gun, but as with you, it didn't fit a niche for me.
Agreed. No question that the pre-rail 3913TSW (or pre-rail 3953TSW) is generally considered to be more desirable now than the CS9. However, in some respects, you might say that the CS9 ultimately replaced the pre-rail 3913TSW in the S&W line-up after the TSW's went bigger and railed!
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:54 PM
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I appreciate the CS 45. I bought one new and have been carrying it ever since. I carry Federal 165 gr. Hydra Shok in it.

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Old 09-01-2017, 04:10 PM
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Yes, 18DAI, the CS45 thinks it ought to shoot just like it's larger brethren.

As we've probably discussed via PM's (and the occasional call), once you get acclimated to the subtly different trigger (since the CS guns had their own shortened mainspring, compared to the compact & standard 3rd gen's), the little CS guns seem to shoot like they think they're bigger models.

I remember talking to someone at the company just about the time I'd heard the CS40 was being dropped from the catalog. I was told the reason was that in the year prior to the decision being made to drop it, the factory had only received orders for something like 120 CS40's, but the CS9's & CS45's were selling strong (especially to LE, for off-duty weapons). They were selling well without much in the way of any advertising, too, seemingly being strong word-of-mouth sellers.

I remember talking to a LE equipment dealer in SoCA sometime around '06, I think it was, just about the time the CS9/45 had become LE-only production. The gentleman told me that he was still getting requests/orders from his LE clientele for CS45 holsters, as it was a very popular off-duty choice for cops carrying .45's on-duty.

I've had an early example of the original Ashley Express (no rear tritium) sights on my own CS45 since just after I bought it (when the stainless version was first released). They're plenty accurate for relatively close range shooting (15yds), and with a little time and shifting of the POA focus (to the "top" of the Big Dot ball), they can still get some solid COM hits of paper or steel out to 40-50yds without an excess amount of time being needed between shots.

I have, however, been eye-balling a black/elevation screw adjustable (drift/windage) MMC rear sight (for S&W 3rd gen .45's), which I've had sitting in my parts for many years. I vaguely remember ordering it for a guy's original 4513TSW or CS45 (black) back then, but he wanted a rear sight with dots, and it's insert is a plain, flat black, square-notch.

I might just replace the front Big Dot with a standard white dot sight, and try the MMC rear sight. That would give me some greater leeway in wringing out the maximum practical accuracy, perhaps.

Then again, I'm lazy, and even though the aging Big Dot front sight is dim (did I mention I've had the CS45 for a while ), it still lets me run the gun plenty accurately for its intended role.

I'm pretty much only running 230gr RA45T and Rem GS45APB (non-bonded Golden Sabre) in mine. I don't really care to shoot 200gr/230gr +P loads in mine, and I think it's been more than 12-15 years since I fired any 185gr +P. I think I remember we ordered pallets of 230gr HST a while back, and it's probably time to open them.

The new CA state LE ammo contract has both Federal P45HST2 (standard pressure 230gr) and Speer 53966 (stand pres/230gr) on it, but the case price is $60 more for the Speer. For that reason alone, meaning costs savings, I suspect my former agency will probably continue to order Federal, as we go through a fair amount of ammo.

Probably means I'll eventually end up using Federal 230gr HST at some point. (Gives me an excuse to take my CS45 back to the range, even though I just did my annual qual for LEOSA with it. )
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
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Got it! I, too, feel that the rubber grips as OEM were a big marketing mistake. I wish that all my CS models had regular 3rd Gen wrap-around grips... although I am too lazy and unskilled to make my own BigDogs.

But your other comments (about what you already owned) don't directly address the gun itself. Comparing it to modern plastic, you already had the M&P9c (closest equivalent) and out came the Shield 9 (equivalent). But Shields sold like popcorn! Even in a world that already had the M&P9c. So why wouldn't the CS9 have done the same... albeit not in your particular case?

Ya, Smith built a new gun, the CS9; that was just "a little" different from what else they were offering............in essence ..... they were competing with themselves. Folks who wanted a single stack S&W 9mm had been buying 3913/14s and NL for almost 10 years.

I had a 469.... when the 6906 came out I bought the first one that I held ..........because the grip was IMHO so much better..................

The M&P9c and the Shield are more like the 6906 vs 3913..... double stack vs single. I had/have both because 12+1 vs 8+1 was to me is a "major" difference........ plus you can use 59xx mags. in the 6906

New buyers in 2000 might look at both the CS and 39xx guns and choose ..... in my case; and IIRC many other 39xx owners commented at the time, that the CS9 didn't offer enough 'improvements" or size advantage to make it worth switching........

Finally, back then for a lot of folks it had to have 15-17 rounds up it's butt or buyers weren't interested at all. Today single stack "mini" and "micro" .380s and 9mm are all the rage; (and are offered by almost all gun makers), with many concealed carry buyers. Today's marketing is the smaller the better...... in the late 80s and 90s it was all about "hi-cap"..... revolvers and single stack autos would get you killed when you ran out of bullets and the bad guy had a Glock with its 17rd magazine. Folks were paying $100 or more for hi-cap Glock mags....... FWIW I could still get 6906 mags for about $30-35durning the 94-2004 AWB.

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Old 09-01-2017, 04:45 PM
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One other thing that just came to mind................... when we saw the pictures of the CS-9...... I think we were expecting something with the "grace" of a Walther PPK or Sig 230 in 9mm.

Maybe it was the grips or the fact they didn't offer a 6rd flush fit magazine.... but when I held the CS9 it just "underwhelmed" me and many others.

To Flashbolts post........it would have been a great off duty gun if you carried a 5906 or 4506/66.... like a 2" 36 to a 4" M&P ....... but were officers trading 39xx guns for them?

Back in the early 90s the 39xx guns were not that popular...at least in my experience ...... in the civilian market in Central and W. Pa. I think they were popular with the NYPD as a replacement for the Model 36 and Detective Special.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
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Very interesting comment (to me anyway) given the overwhelming success of the similarly compact Shields in the plastic realm.

I was still in my 25-year "deep sleep" in 1998 when the Chief's Specials were introduced and I stayed asleep right through their demise in 2006 with the big switcharoo over to plastic by the mothership. I didn't wake up until the election of a certain anti-2A president in 2008 and even then, my initial focus was all on long guns (which I had just discovered I could shoot with my left arm handicap after all if properly equipped). I really didn't get back into handguns much until the spring and summer of 2013.

So why weren't the CS9 and CS45 better appreciated during their production years? I can think of a few possible answers to that question, but I'd rather hear more about it from members who were wide awake during that late 3rd Gen production era.
Maybe price had something to do with it TTSH. Not sure what the M.S.R.P. on the CS series was back in 2006 but am sure more than the modern day Shields. My CS involved a trade back then. Imagine the going price for last year of production would have been over $550 or there abouts.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:25 PM
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The 39xx guns weren't all the popular (for law enforcement) because they weren't double stack "Wonder Nines". At least not popular for on duty, uniformed, 50 pounds of gear on a belt use. The 69xx guns were a good compromise for off duty, detective, and of course administrative slots.

The 39xx guns were about 25 years ahead of their time, because they are perfect for civilian personal defense use. Maybe I should go on the "Wish List" form and wish for a 3933PD from S&W. Or maybe a 3913PD.

I didn't like the finger hook base plate on the CS9 because I always felt that the "hook" could cause a shirt to rise up to much. That being said, the flat bottom base plates fit fine and fixed that problem, although of course some people said it make the grip too short.

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Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
One other thing that just came to mind................... when we saw the pictures of the CS-9...... I think we were expecting something with the "grace" of a Walther PPK or Sig 230 in 9mm.

Maybe it was the grips or the fact they didn't offer a 6rd flush fit magazine.... but when I held the CS9 it just "underwhelmed" me and many others.

To Flashbolts post........it would have been a great off duty gun if you carried a 5906 or 4506/66.... like a 2" 36 to a 4" M&P ....... but were officers trading 39xx guns for them?

Back in the early 90s the 39xx guns were not that popular...at least in my experience ...... in the civilian market in Central and W. Pa. I think they were popular with the NYPD as a replacement for the Model 36 and Detective Special.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:34 PM
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As I recall, if they were just looking to acquire off-duty weapons, most folks didn't go overboard on buying every iteration of every size of the 3rd gen's. Maybe a smaller one for off-duty to balance against the big one they carried on-duty.

The 3913/14 had a big head-start on the CS9, but the CS45 didn't lag far behind the then-also-new 457/4513TSW. (The CS40 was mostly looking for a home, meaning it's own niche, although the first .45 aluminum-framed 4013 was sort of a kissing cousin, so to speak.)

Also, many "average" shooters tend to prefer a grip frame on which they can get more than just their middle and ring fingers. Even the original 3913/4513TSW's weren't destined for a long run before being supplanted by the "standard" size compact models.

I came a bit late to the CS9, myself. I was more than satisfied with my late 90's production 3913 in all respects, so I had some initial ... call it disdain ... for the CS9, even though the early advertising hailed it as the Chiefs Special of the 21st Century.

I did, however, order a CS45, as I was a die-hard .45 shooter and really liked my original 4513TSW. The more the merrier, right?

The head of our FTU finally convinced me to try his CS9 (and he also owned an early production 3913) ... and I was hooked. I could shoot it every bit as well as my favored 3913, and it was just enough shorter to feel smaller on my hip (especially when I was seated for long hours). Unlike the not-quite-perfectly-sized grip of the CS45, which was a bit too large for my hand, the CS9 seemed as though S&W and Hogue had used my hand for a pattern.

The accuracy was equal to my prized 3913, and the recoil snap/dwell time was shorter and more brisk. The less "muzzle forward" balance of the CS9 put the "pivot point" of the felt recoil more "back" in my hand, making the slide/sights seemingly "snap" back onto POA more quickly, and almost of their own accord.

I quickly ordered a CS9 of my own, kicking myself for having ignored the model for so long. Of the 2 of them, meaning the CS45/9, if I were only going to keep ONE, it would be the CS9 (even though I've fired a LOT more rounds through the CS45, and have upwards of a dozen mags and 2 excellent holsters for it).

The CS45 was a bit of a beast, leading the way for traditional DA subcompact .45's for a few years, and a respectable number of .45 shooters who favored other brands could be heard to express admiration (and ownership) of the CS45. It's virtues of a short slide/barrel length, tolerance of ammunition (bullet nose shapes) and 3rd gen reliability - and having DA/SA capability - were often lauded.

Sure, you could still reduce the grip stability (ugh, aka - "limp-wrist") and experience a stoppage if you didn't do your part, but it seemed less susceptible to shooter-induced influences compared to other smallish .45's.

The slightly slimmer CS9 also tends to make it a bit more easily pocket-holstered than the chubby CS45, too, at least for me.
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:10 PM
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Curse you, friend! Now I've got to start looking for a CS9 to go with my 3913NL that I haven't even received yet. (It's inbound from a fellow forum member).
I really need to quit this forum - it costs me too much money.
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Originally Posted by Fastbolt View Post
As I recall, if they were just looking to acquire off-duty weapons, most folks didn't go overboard on buying every iteration of every size of the 3rd gen's. Maybe a smaller one for off-duty to balance against the big one they carried on-duty.

The 3913/14 had a big head-start on the CS9, but the CS45 didn't lag far behind the then-also-new 457/4513TSW. (The CS40 was mostly looking for a home, meaning it's own niche, although the first .45 aluminum-framed 4013 was sort of a kissing cousin, so to speak.)

Also, many "average" shooters tend to prefer a grip frame on which they can get more than just their middle and ring fingers. Even the original 3913/4513TSW's weren't destined for a long run before being supplanted by the "standard" size compact models.

I came a bit late to the CS9, myself. I was more than satisfied with my late 90's production 3913 in all respects, so I had some initial ... call it disdain ... for the CS9, even though the early advertising hailed it as the Chiefs Special of the 21st Century.

I did, however, order a CS45, as I was a die-hard .45 shooter and really liked my original 4513TSW. The more the merrier, right?

The head of our FTU finally convinced me to try his CS9 (and he also owned an early production 3913) ... and I was hooked. I could shoot it every bit as well as my favored 3913, and it was just enough shorter to feel smaller on my hip (especially when I was seated for long hours). Unlike the not-quite-perfectly-sized grip of the CS45, which was a bit too large for my hand, the CS9 seemed as though S&W and Hogue had used my hand for a pattern.

The accuracy was equal to my prized 3913, and the recoil snap/dwell time was shorter and more brisk. The less "muzzle forward" balance of the CS9 put the "pivot point" of the felt recoil more "back" in my hand, making the slide/sights seemingly "snap" back onto POA more quickly, and almost of their own accord.

I quickly ordered a CS9 of my own, kicking myself for having ignored the model for so long. Of the 2 of them, meaning the CS45/9, if I were only going to keep ONE, it would be the CS9 (even though I've fired a LOT more rounds through the CS45, and have upwards of a dozen mags and 2 excellent holsters for it).

The CS45 was a bit of a beast, leading the way for traditional DA subcompact .45's for a few years, and a respectable number of .45 shooters who favored other brands could be heard to express admiration (and ownership) of the CS45. It's virtues of a short slide/barrel length, tolerance of ammunition (bullet nose shapes) and 3rd gen reliability - and having DA/SA capability - were often lauded.

Sure, you could still reduce the grip stability (ugh, aka - "limp-wrist") and experience a stoppage if you didn't do your part, but it seemed less susceptible to shooter-induced influences compared to other smallish .45's.

The slightly slimmer CS9 also tends to make it a bit more easily pocket-holstered than the chubby CS45, too, at least for me.
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:19 PM
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I found this on the USCCA website - kinda funny:

I like the solid, all metal construction. There is no subconscious distrust of plastic frames and none of that weird, top-heavy imbalance of steel over plastic. Yeah, I’m saying plastic. Polymer, no matter how advanced, reinforced or space aged, is still plastic. Plastic is plastic is plastic. We make cheap toys for happy meals out of plastic. This Smith is made from hardened aluminum alloy. We make jet fighters, baseball bats, and Bradley infantry fighting vehicles out of aluminum. Remember during the Rolling Thunder missions into Baghdad that M3 Bradley that was on fire, yet kept rolling and firing its guns until it ran out of ammo? Yeah, that was made of aluminum alloy. Aluminum can make for a ferocious weapon system.

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Old 09-01-2017, 10:39 PM
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I was late to the CS pistol party due to my usage of the slightly bigger 3913 and 4513TSW.

I purchased a blue CS9 several years ago. After a few months I sold it to a member here who needed it for his daughter. While it was a very fine little 9mm, it really didn't do anything that my passle of 39XX series guns didn't already do, for me.

Now, back then I still wore a star and sought out miscreants - these days, I stand behind bullet resistant glass and simply lock miscreants up. So the 2nd CS9 I've owned comes in VERY handy as a deep concealment piece or a pocket carry when I'm dealing with the miscreants who frequent the gunshop I work part time in.

The CS45 is another matter. I was late to that party because I only ever came across one in the wild. And it was used up! It looked like it had been dragged on pavement and the gunshow vender/owner was very proud of it. I let him take it home.

And of course I had my all time favorite carry gun, the original 4513TSW. So I felt no rush to locate a CS45. While they are close in size, the 4513TSW is a softer shooter, for me. And neither is what I would consider a "fun" range gun. I shoot them frequently because to me, they are fine compact 45s that you need to shoot regularly to remain proficient. Just like back in the day when we carried snub K-frames. Not a lot of fun to shoot, but they needed to be shot regularly.

In retirement........sort of.....I carry the CS45 and a 457 more than any other guns. They are bet your life reliable, accurate, look good doing all that and I really don't care what happens to them. I'm in them right and I could easily replace either one.

Contrary to what the naysayers chant about a "lack of parts and support", I have found that these guns don't often break anything and I could care less about customer support and service.

My idea of good customer service is that there is enough quality in the build of the product that I never need to contact the company. For anything. Much less rebuild it with Apex parts or ship it back to Springfield several times for them to "make it right." These CS guns were made right the first time.

And I know enough talented gunsmiths and have adequate supplies of consumables such as mags and spare springs to last me. So I use these guns often and without worry.

I know that the CS9 and CS45 were both VERY popular with LE. Locally the CS45 being very popular due to the number of agencies using full size 3rd gen 45s.

I love both my CS9 and CS45. And they keep the wear and tear off my other "nicer" 3rd gen guns. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI
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Old 09-01-2017, 10:55 PM
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I recently got a CS45 and it's growing on me.. I had drifted down to the plastic 45 and 9mms, but that little rascal has dragged me back to real metal .45s again.
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Old 09-02-2017, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post

So why weren't the CS9 and CS45 better appreciated during their production years? I can think of a few possible answers to that question, but I'd rather hear more about it from members who were wide awake during that late 3rd Gen production era.
One word...PRICE.

You could usually buy two guns for the price of 1 S&W.

Which is still true, I bought two Star M45's for the
same price I paid for ONE S&W CS45, $450.
And for those who have read my shooting comparison,
quickly find out that the Star M45 simply outshoots a CS45...
mostly due to it having a half-inch longer barrel
CS45-3.25", Star M45-3.8"...in the same size package,
as the CS45 has controls in the slide, the Star has them
all in the frame.

So why do I still have two S&W CS's??
Well, they are pretty nice guns...

The CS45 is more comfy during long range sessions because
of the Cushy Grip...which small-finger'd folks hate, but
long-finger'd folks LOVE Gimme Hogues anytime!!

The look and longevity are what draw me to keeping them...
CS40/45 make great BBQ guns!! By using the Stars as
primary EDC's, they save wear and tear on my CS's...
and if I'm ever involved in a self-defense shooting, it
will likely not be the S&W's that end up in the police armory
being badly treated until everything is all settled.

Only thing you really need with S&W's is a supply of springs
and an extra firing pin...all of which any home hobbyist can
easily make themselves. Or any real gunsmith can.

Occasionally spare parts may be needed,
but that's what Numrich is for!!
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File Type: jpg CS40 (1).jpg (85.7 KB, 20 views)
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Old 09-03-2017, 02:35 AM
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Default Still on the fence

Got a question:

I understood that the CS45 guide rod is plastic & assumed the whole assembly was. I just compared a new one, still in the bag, & the black body is metal. Only the plunger is plastic. Is this the way they've always been? (There's only one PN# listed, 263280000.)

It appears to me the plastic plunger's assembly is of a slightly smaller (~.160") diameter than the metal plunger assembly (~.175") of a 4513TSW guide rod. The two guide rod bodys are the same diameter (~.238") but different length, of course. Any reason you couldn't shorten the 4513TSW guide rod & make an all metal assembly for the CS45?

Also, the S&W parts catalog lists only an "inside" recoil spring for the CS45. Doesn't it have a nested/dual set like the 4513TSW?

.
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Old 09-03-2017, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
Got a question:

I understood that the CS45 guide rod is plastic & assumed the whole assembly was. I just compared a new one, still in the bag, & the black body is metal. Only the plunger is plastic. Is this the way they've always been? (There's only one PN# listed, 263280000.)

It appears to me the plastic plunger's assembly is of a slightly smaller (~.160") diameter than the metal plunger assembly (~.175") of a 4513TSW guide rod. The two guide rod bodys are the same diameter (~.238") but different length, of course. Any reason you couldn't shorten the 4513TSW guide rod & make an all metal assembly for the CS45?

Also, the S&W parts catalog lists only an "inside" recoil spring for the CS45. Doesn't it have a nested/dual set like the 4513TSW?

.
My CS45 guide rod (and a spare I've had for some years) are both metal (magnetic). I've got both steel and plastic plungers for my CS guns, and I've used both at one time or another. The original ones were plastic, and then they started using the same steel plungers as in the revised 1-piece guide rods. The plastic ones could develop some plastic strings coming off them, with enough use, but easy enough to remove. Of course, I've also see the new steel plungers develop a rolled, burred edge on the tip that had to be dressed, too, when removal and installation of the slide stop lever became tough.

This is a pair of guide rods for my CS45 and a 4013TSW.



The recoil spring for the CS45 is a single, flat-wound spring, painted green. Dunno why they labeled it an inside spring. FWIW, I asked the same thing many years ago and never got a clear answer.

I've had a couple of the 4506 1-piece steel rods shortened for smaller models, and have heard of other people doing the same.
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Old 09-03-2017, 03:18 PM
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I have CS45 guide rods with both the metal tip and the original plastic tip. The one with the plastic tip is in the gun.

IIRC back around 2013 I ordered a spare guide rod from s&w for my off duty 4513TSW. They sent me a CS45 guide rod with the metal tip. When I called the LE rep to get the correct part, he told me to just keep the CS45 guide rod and he sent me the correct one I wanted.

I took it as a sign that I should buy a CS45. Especially considering that in purchasing 6-round mags for my 4513s I had also aquired 3 CS45 Mags, accidently. So I guess you could say the 4513TSW led me to the CS45. Regards 18DAI
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Old 09-04-2017, 01:17 AM
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Default (6) round .45 mags

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Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Especially considering that in purchasing 6-round mags for my 4513s I had also aquired 3 CS45 Mags, accidently.
I guess you're referring to the base plates being different between the (6) round CS45 mags & the (6) round 4513TSW (pre-rail) mags ??

The 4513TSW pre-rail mags didn't have the finger rest (#262760000) while the CS45, 4513TSW (railed) & 4516 had the curved finger rest (#107950000) base plates, right ?

I bought (3) mags at the last gun show (to add to the guide rods) in anticipation of finding either of the (6) shot .45 pistols too.

.

4513TSW-CS45 (6) round magazines

(-01a)

.

4513TSW-CS45 (6) round magazines

(-02a)

.
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Old 09-04-2017, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
I guess you're referring to the base plates being different between the (6) round CS45 mags & the (6) round 4513TSW (pre-rail) mags ?? ...
.
The important difference between the 6rd 4513 mags and the 6rd CS45 mags is the added indentation overlapping the bottom/rear corner of the primary (P-lip) pressed lip indentation at the feed lips.

In this pic you can see the CS45 mag's additional indentation (mag on right). The standard pressed lip indentation (on all .45 mag bodies) is shown on the left mag in the pic.

The purpose of the additional indentation is to help prevent the top round from being displaced forward under greater recoil force acting on the lighter CS45 during cycling (meaning not jumping out from under the feed lips as the slide is cycling to the rear).



This revised feature, according to someone at the factory who explained its development and purpose to me one day, was added to the CS45 mags after the first batch of mags had already been produced. He said the engineers had decided that it was necessary after the gun had started in production, and that it had been laboriously added to the first batch of mags by hand-stamping. It was incorporated into subsequent mag production of new mags, done during the regular stamping and laser cutting of the steel used to form the mags.
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Old 09-04-2017, 03:11 AM
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Okay, I've seen that as a "development item" on some other magazines too: 10mm Auto (10xx) & 40 S&W single stacks (4013) mags.

Wouldn't the 4513TSW pre-rail's have needed that feature on it's magazines too?

.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:45 PM
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BLUEDOT37 The early variant 4513TSW mags came with two sets of baseplates in the blue plastic box. Three with finger rests and three rounded.

I always preferred the rounded. I had a spare 4513TSW so I bought a bunch of 6-round mags. This was before FastBolt did an excellent tutorial on the 6-round mags and the differences between the ones for the 4513TSW and CS45.

Once I saw his pictures of the detents in the CS45 mags, I checked all mine. Turns out 3 of them had the detents and were in fact CS45 mags. So naturally I started looking for a CS45. You know, so I could use those mags I bought.

The 4513TSW, while being not all that different in size compared to a CS45, is a softer shooter, IMO. Maybe due to the slightly longer slide, dual nestled recoil springs and slightly longer TSW lock time. Dunno.

Anyways, the felt recoil with the 4513TSW is less than the CS45s, for me. And as nice as a CS45 is, the early 6-round 4513TSW with the 6-round mag, is still my favorite carry gun. And my favorite handgun. Out of all of them. I determined sometime back, that IF I decide to sell of all of my pistols and revolvers, the 4513TSW is the ONLY gun I will keep.

Yeah, it is that good, for me. Regards 18DAI
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Old 09-04-2017, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
Okay, I've seen that as a "development item" on some other magazines too: 10mm Auto (10xx) & 40 S&W single stacks (4013) mags.

Wouldn't the 4513TSW pre-rail's have needed that feature on it's magazines too?

.
The 457/45123TSW don't have the same amount of abrupt recoil of the slightly smaller and lighter CS45 (or the slide velocity of the .40 & 10 pistols, for that matter). Apparently, the engineers never thought the secondary mag indentation (over the standard P-lip) was necessary for the heavier (albeit compact) 457/4513's.
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:18 AM
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A word on carry ammo for the CS45. I was at the range a few weeks back. I was using up some old RA45T carry ammo. I discard the top two rounds every week as I don't want any bullet set back from administrative handling of the gun. So I had around 50 rounds.

The gun was clean and greased, with a brand new recoil spring. The first two mags had new springs too. On both the first two mags, I had a failure to return to battery on the last round in the mag. Happened with both mags.

I decided to run a few mags of 230 grain S&B to see if there was a gun issue. All those rounds fired off fine. I thought maybe there was a grip stability issue on my part.

So I spoke to an expert who owns and carries this gun. Turns out he had the same problem using the same ammo. Evidently the RA45T is very hot and the velocity out of a small 45 causes feed issues at the last round in the mag.

He suggested a lower velocity round and I heeded his advice. So I now use Speer 230 grain Gold Dot JHP in the CS45. I intend to try some Federal HST as well. As soon as I can locate some.

So, make sure you test your carry ammo in your CS45. Keep the springs fresh too! And put some grease on those rails! Regards 18DAI
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