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  #51  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:16 PM
SVT28 SVT28 is online now
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Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
SVT28 sorry to read about this happening to you.

I looked for the thread this AM, but cant find it. There is a member here who had a 4 inch full lug PC14. one of 131 made.

He bulged the barrel with a squib. He located a company here in the US that made him an identical replacement barrel for it. They did remarkable work and he provided their name and info. I just cant locate the thread. It was a couple of years ago.

Definitely call Barsto. Hopefully they will help. I would also call Mr Paul Liebenberger at Precision Dynamics. He is the designer of these Performance Center guns. He was helpful to me in the past. He may have some suggestions.

Good luck my friend! I'll keep a good thought for you! I hope you get that work of art up and running! Best regards, 18DAI
Thanks 18DAI, was this the thread? performance center model 14 4 inch revolver

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  #52  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:29 PM
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YES! Thats the one. I would Email Mcgowens Precision and see what they say. Good luck! Regards 18DAI
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  #53  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:33 PM
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my sympathies on the damage to the gun and i'm sure it'll be resolved eventually.
what gets me is the tendency of shooters to take a $2000 gun shooting in their $40,000 vehicle with the cheapest ammo available.
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  #54  
Old 09-03-2017, 05:18 PM
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Nice! 52 posts before someone mentioned a "cheap ammo" comment. Silverstate, is there anything in my photos or experience that confirm its the ammo's fault for this? What is your definition of "cheap ammo"?

This ammo per round cost is more expensive than imported, steel cased, or reloads so its not the cheapest 40S&W out there from a financial aspect. As far as the quality of ammo is concerned, this is Federal/CCI factory loaded ammunition. Aluminum cased ammo has been sold on the consumer market for decades and I can't find a single ammo failure that would have caused this damage on the internet. Not saying its never happened, just that the likelihood that a split casing cracking a performance center barrel with no prior flaws etc the way that it did is very unlikely. If it was a bullet setback or crimping issue, then this can happen with any factory loaded ammo. I just got done reading about overcharges, undercharges, bullet setback with other brands like Perfecta, Aguila, Magtech etc. Is there a magical brand out there that is immune to manfacturer defects that you suggest I use moving forward?

Thanks again for the kind words, just wanted to get a better understanding on where you are coming from.

SVT28
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  #55  
Old 09-03-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 4506517 View Post
SVT,

I really feel bad for you.

I hope.....I really hope, that someone make this right for you.
Yeah..the OP's pocketbook. the cost of the gun just went up.
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  #56  
Old 09-03-2017, 05:59 PM
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Aluminum is softer than brass. (Some of the softest brass can be softer than the hardest aluminum, but this ain't the aluminum were talking about!) This can affect neck tension. I can't shoot aluminum case ammo in any of my Walthers, it's too soft, and it affects the extraction. I would not be surprised if reduced neck tension could cause this problem after 4 rounds. Each preceding round reduced slightly in OAL until it became a problem. I'm not saying this is what happened, just that it wouldn't surprise me at all. A lot of people that insert mags, chamber a round,then unload the pistol and repeat, (LEO for instance) will rotate the first round in the mag so that the same round isn't loaded at the top of the mag and chambered each time, to reduce the possibility of setback of that round.
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  #57  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SVT28 View Post
I just looked over the box of ammo and found a warning regarding not shooting this ammo through a compensated/ported gun. For the life of me I've never noticed this warning. Would this have anything to do with the failure?
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Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
It might. Either way, it likely will give Federal and S&W an out. Nice gun, sorry to see that this happened.
This thread is making me physically ill just reading it as I remember what you paid for that gun.

I don't think this was something about the very common, relatively low-powered factory ammo and I don't think that warning on the box is relevant to the incident & damage in other than the way GaryS is concerned about it... i.e., an easy out for all potentially responsible parties involved. That warning supposedly has to do with bullet plating spitting out the ports, although some say it has to do with the low-powered ammo sometimes not being able to cycle the slide in a ported gun.

We need to remember that this is a 20+ year old gun for which we know little to nothing about its prior history. I don't think it was anything the OP did wrong. I think it's more likely that it has to do with its prior history or, as others have said, perhaps a hidden materials flaw in the Bar-Sto barrel that simply found its time to give way.

Externally, the gun does not look like it was ever abused and I would think the gun is worth saving... but the key will be finding (or having made) a replacement barrel without breaking the bank.
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
Externally, the gun does not look like it was ever abused and I would think the gun is worth saving... but the key will be finding (or having made) a replacement barrel without breaking the bank.
If mine I'd be getting the comp off, carefully driving the damaged chamber bulge down to pull the gun apart.

Then try to find a replacement (be it non threaded) barrel. Quick look on Numrich found some.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:45 PM
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  #60  
Old 09-03-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post

Then try to find a replacement (be it non threaded) barrel. Quick look on Numrich found some.
That's a pretty darn good idea... Why didn't I think of that

It'll take a bit of fitting but I think a 4006 barrel could be readily adapted to drop in there. You'd need a narrow hood version or plan on fitting the tab/hood to the slide. And, the spherical bulge at the muzzle end must be turned off and the barrel's length forward of the locking lugs needs to be fit to the Briley bushing & polished. That should about do it. Relatively cheap way the get the gun running again, albeit without the comp, while you hunt for a custom barrel maker.

Cheers
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  #61  
Old 09-03-2017, 08:24 PM
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I've seen 4006 barrels for sale at various sites. Out of curiousity, what is the length of the Comp40 barrel versus a 4006?

I sort assumed (always dangerous) that Comp40 was a variation on the full size all stainless .40.

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That's a pretty darn good idea... Why didn't I think of that

It'll take a bit of fitting but I think a 4006 barrel could be readily adapted to drop in there. You'd need a narrow hood version or plan on fitting the tab/hood to the slide. And, the spherical bulge at the muzzle end must be turned off and the barrel's length forward of the locking lugs needs to be fit to the Briley bushing & polished. That should about do it. Relatively cheap way the get the gun running again, albeit without the comp, while you hunt for a custom barrel maker.

Cheers
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  #62  
Old 09-03-2017, 08:50 PM
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SVT28 - What a bad set of circumstances. I hope as others have said that you get an assist in this one. We have all suffered financial hit's and it is never fun. Good luck with getting it worked out.

Larry
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  #63  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:01 PM
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I would also call Mr Paul Liebenberger at Precision Dynamics. He is the designer of these Performance Center guns. He was helpful to me in the past. He may have some suggestions.
Actually that would be Paul Liebenberg at Pistol Dynamics. Calling him might have been a good idea at one time in the distant past but I doubt you will even be able to contact him. In the last four or five years he has earned for himself an enormous reputation for taking big money for custom built 1911's and failing to deliver them in any sort of timely manner-if at all. There are a number of threads detailing this on different boards and the complaints are from different customers. According to these folks, he is currently refusing to answer correspondence, either e-mail or snail mail and phone calls.

Here is two threads concerning Pistol Dynamics. There are numerous others:

Pistol Dynamics 1911's? - 1911Forum

Liedenberg 1911 - 1911Forum

It's a sad situation with Liebenberg.

Your best source for help may be Barsto and even that may be a long shot!

Bruce

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Old 09-03-2017, 09:10 PM
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Thanks Larry, my family always says if we didn't have bad luck we'd have none at all. I just keep reminding myself that these are tools that can be repaired and replaced. My health and body parts are a much higher concern so its nice to see that this hunk of steel held up no matter what the cause of the failure.

Bill and the rest of the team, my research shows that the barrel length is 4.25 inches. Unfortunately, this barrel is approx a quarter inch longer than a standard 4006 barrel so I don't believe there is a drop in replacement as there was no 4506 version (long slide) of the 4006 except for performance center guns like mine.

TTSH, thank you for the kind words. As a fellow collector I'm sure you can empathize with my situation. Its not even about the money I paid for it.. its the fact that its such a rare and awesome pistol. It's my #1 priority to get this gun back to as close to original condition as possible, if possible.

I will not be shooting this gun again unless I find a custom barrel maker that can fabricate what I need. After chatting with a few people, I believe I'll be hitting desd ends with Smith and Wesson as well as Federal. I think my only option is to get this gun repaired at my expense. My intent is to take it to a local gunsmith to have the gun disassembled and evaluated for root cause as well as salvage-ability. If it turns out that only the barrel needs replacing, I will work with the gunsmith to find a barrel maker and be willing to pay top dollar for a precision made part. Once the barrel is made, with proper threads for the compensator, I'll have the gunsmith assemble the pistol back together and test for function. So far I've compiled 3 options for this barrel work.(Barsto, Paul at Pistol Dynamics - skeptical, Mcgowens Precision) I'll most likely have Frank Glenn do the gunsmith work if he's willing to.

SVT28

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Old 09-03-2017, 09:47 PM
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I would still contact S&W first to see what they can tell you. If nothing else, you'll know for sure that they can't help. Then there is plenty of time to look at other options.
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  #66  
Old 09-03-2017, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT28 View Post
my research shows that the barrel length is 4.25 inches. Unfortunately, this barrel is approx a quarter inch longer than a standard 4006 barrel so I don't believe there is a drop in replacement
SVT28
Sorry, but I have to ask... Did you actually measure from the breechface to the end of the slide? You see, some portion of that barrel extends beyond the Briley bushing and fastens into the comp. Perhaps a quarter inch or so.

I don't mean to be annoying, it just the way my brain works...I'm always looking for the workaround or how to make the obsolete broken "widget" work again.

Anyway, I think enlisting the aid of a local smith is a great idea and I look forward to hearing what he finds under the hood once he gets the top end off.

Cheers
Bill
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Old 09-04-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SVT28 View Post

It's my #1 priority to get this gun back to as close to original condition as possible, if possible.

I will not be shooting this gun again unless I find a custom barrel maker that can fabricate what I need.
SVT28
Maybe Barsto still has specs to cut you a new one.. Maybe
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Old 09-04-2017, 09:49 PM
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Default This makes me sick - Barrel Crack - PC Comp40

I'll get the gears turning for some of you...

I just measured the barrel on MY PC comp40.

Barrel length is 4 5/8".

Barrel on my PC 40 Limited is 5"

Barrel on my PC Tac 40 is 5 3/8"

That said...if you could find any of these options they could be cut down and threaded for the comp.

Sure hope you can get yours up and running again....but I think the barrel options just grew exponentially is size.

To the OP:

If I can help with measurements,etc feel free to PM me!





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Old 09-04-2017, 11:11 PM
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There is a member that is doing a run of 3566 Limited barrels in 9mm. He also does runs of others in different calibers. He may have one you could use with modification. I don't remember his handle here, but if some members see this they will chime in.

I doubt one barrel is going to motivate Barsto to make one. Your hope is that hey have surplus stock of just one.
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:22 PM
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Scott Sullivan is the gentleman who is having Performance Center dimensioned barrels made. His email is: s537@yahoo.com

Hopefully he will have some good news for you...

Last edited by Randy Lee; 09-06-2017 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:28 PM
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So what did Smith tell you, OP?
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Old 09-07-2017, 04:49 PM
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Update: I've been swamped this week with having to go out of town for corporate training and finally had some time today to make some calls.

Call #1: Smith and Wesson Customer Service. I spoke with Dave, and I explained the situation and as predicted, he was not familiar with the PC Comp40. I described the failure and the action(s) leading up to the failure and asked for his advice. Also as predicted, he said that due to this being a limited production gun, 25+ years old, and a gun that was purchased used, he was 99.9% positive that Smith and Wesson could not repair the gun either under warranty or at my expense. I asked him his advice and he said that the factory could "check it out" and determine what kind of failure occurred. He did say that the symptoms and location on the crack brings suspicion to round count or abuse from the prior owner, or just a stress failure from the limited production barrel. If I were to send it in, it would go 1 of 2 ways. They would evaluate the gun, write up a report regarding the root cause of failure (for potential followup with Federal) and keep the gun. They would give me some sort of credit towards a new gun, but it would not be a gratis exchange due to being out of warranty. The other option would be they evaluate the failure and if I choose to not take the discounted new gun, they would send me the whole gun back, cracked barrel and all. The reason why is that they would not take apart the gun since they cannot make the repair. Dave advised me to call Barsto next to get their take on the situation and see if they can help.

So dead end with S&W

Call #2: I spoke with a very very very sympathetic tech associate at Bar-Sto. I also explained the situation and I was surprised to hear him say, let me loop in the owner and see what we can do. After about 10 minutes of Q&A regarding the model, serial, barrel construction, compensator construction, etc, the owner said he thinks he may have a barrel in stock and the tooling to repair the gun. They requested me send an email with cliff notes, as well as pictures of the gun from all angles. Luckily, I took plenty of pictures pre failure and post failure, as well as saved the PC catalog ad from the early nineties. They wanted to confirm that this gun was not built on the 10XX platform first and foremost, and then they wanted to confirm how the barrel fits the gun with the compensator. I just sent that over and they promised to have some feedback in the next 24 hours. The owner did ask if I was able to remove the upper assembly and send it in, but I explained the the slide was locked up due to the tight tolerances and crack. Barsto did confirm that I could send the whole gun in for gunsmith work if they have the ability to replace/repair the cracked barrel.



SO... I'm holding off on making any more calls until I hear back from Bar-Sto. Thank you everyone for the recommendations and contact information for Scott Sullivan. He, along with a few other custom barrel shops, will be my next calls if things don't pan out with Bar-Sto. Fingers crossed!!!!

SVT28
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:26 PM
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SO... I'm holding off on making any more calls until I hear back from Bar-Sto. Thank you everyone for the recommendations and contact information for Scott Sullivan. He, along with a few other custom barrel shops, will be my next calls if things don't pan out with Bar-Sto. Fingers crossed!!!!
No real surprise that S&W CS was useless. Who here didn't already know that? But that is great news about Bar-Sto and suddenly I'm feeling confident that you are on your way to a fully-repaired gun!
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:44 PM
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there was someone else I believe that had a real old gun that needed repair and S&W said they could not repair it and would give him a credit toward a new gun.

Last edited by gman51; 09-07-2017 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dotdsd334 View Post
I'll get the gears turning for some of you...

I just measured the barrel on MY PC comp40.

Barrel length is 4 5/8".

Barrel on my PC 40 Limited is 5"

Barrel on my PC Tac 40 is 5 3/8"

That said...if you could find any of these options they could be cut down and threaded for the comp.

Sure hope you can get yours up and running again....but I think the barrel options just grew exponentially is size.

To the OP:

If I can help with measurements,etc feel free to PM me!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Dan! Looks like I will need to take you up on your offer of measurement

This is the email I just got back from Bar-Sto. Can you help a brother out??

"The owner was able to quickly peruse the pictures that you supplied. There are a couple more things that would help us move on this. First off, the barrel diameter, S&W used several different diameter barrels from us for this particular barrel style. Some were .540" or .550". Also, if there is a way to get a measurement of the hood width. Sorry for all the hoops, S&W was really random with their requested dimension. We also noted that this has the spherical bushing. "

Thanks in advance kind Sir.

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Old 09-07-2017, 06:13 PM
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I don't know if I'd say it was a dead end with S&W, but it is safe to say that they presented limited options.

Things certainly sound better with Bar-Sto. If they can fix it, that would be terrific.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by SVT28 View Post
Update: I've been swamped this week with having to go out of town for corporate training and finally had some time today to make some calls.

Call #1: Smith and Wesson Customer Service. I spoke with Dave, and I explained the situation and as predicted, he was not familiar with the PC Comp40. I described the failure and the action(s) leading up to the failure and asked for his advice. Also as predicted, he said that due to this being a limited production gun, 25+ years old, and a gun that was purchased used, he was 99.9% positive that Smith and Wesson could not repair the gun either under warranty or at my expense. I asked him his advice and he said that the factory could "check it out" and determine what kind of failure occurred. He did say that the symptoms and location on the crack brings suspicion to round count or abuse from the prior owner, or just a stress failure from the limited production barrel. If I were to send it in, it would go 1 of 2 ways. They would evaluate the gun, write up a report regarding the root cause of failure (for potential followup with Federal) and keep the gun. They would give me some sort of credit towards a new gun, but it would not be a gratis exchange due to being out of warranty. The other option would be they evaluate the failure and if I choose to not take the discounted new gun, they would send me the whole gun back, cracked barrel and all. The reason why is that they would not take apart the gun since they cannot make the repair. Dave advised me to call Barsto next to get their take on the situation and see if they can help.

So dead end with S&W

Call #2: I spoke with a very very very sympathetic tech associate at Bar-Sto. I also explained the situation and I was surprised to hear him say, let me loop in the owner and see what we can do. After about 10 minutes of Q&A regarding the model, serial, barrel construction, compensator construction, etc, the owner said he thinks he may have a barrel in stock and the tooling to repair the gun. They requested me send an email with cliff notes, as well as pictures of the gun from all angles. Luckily, I took plenty of pictures pre failure and post failure, as well as saved the PC catalog ad from the early nineties. They wanted to confirm that this gun was not built on the 10XX platform first and foremost, and then they wanted to confirm how the barrel fits the gun with the compensator. I just sent that over and they promised to have some feedback in the next 24 hours. The owner did ask if I was able to remove the upper assembly and send it in, but I explained the the slide was locked up due to the tight tolerances and crack. Barsto did confirm that I could send the whole gun in for gunsmith work if they have the ability to replace/repair the cracked barrel.



SO... I'm holding off on making any more calls until I hear back from Bar-Sto. Thank you everyone for the recommendations and contact information for Scott Sullivan. He, along with a few other custom barrel shops, will be my next calls if things don't pan out with Bar-Sto. Fingers crossed!!!!

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Old 09-07-2017, 07:09 PM
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If Barsto has one in stock that needs a few tweaks, this just may not be too expensive. And maybe even a little help since the first one didn't last very long.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:23 PM
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I agree with above- while S&W wasn't dead end, they did provide an option limited as it was.

Good to hear about the response from Bar Sto. Looks promising. Please keep us up to date.

Good luck
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
If Barsto has one in stock that needs a few tweaks, this just may not be too expensive. And maybe even a little help since the first one didn't last very long.
I think Randy Lee's option is great if Barsto fumbles. And yes Barsto did make the original barrel.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:51 PM
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I really like what I'm hearing from Bar-Sto! They seem wholly on board with wanting to tackle this project and that's fantastic.

On the other front, I have to say that what you reported from S&W is, in my opinion, pretty damn good and better than what I would have guessed. I'm not sure I would contact them at all for this, I have basically no confidence whatsoever in their ability (in 2017) to even recognize the finest stuff that has ever carried their name.

It sounds like in this instance they at least gave you some manner of a reply that was more valuable then "we'll take it and give you $100 off a new M&P!"
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:05 PM
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When did S&W start outsourcing their CS to Taurus?
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:32 AM
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So glad to hear that Bar-Sto may be able to help you out with this tragedy SVT28. What a heart-breaking situation, best of luck!!
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:53 PM
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Update: I heard from BarSto today and they said that the owner is spending a little time a day looking through the old stock "vault" to try and find something that will work for my gun. I can't imagine all of the cool one offs and rare barrels that are probably down there!

Maybe I'll hear something by Friday, patience has never been my strong suit

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