OhWell, I took the Comp40 out on its maiden voyage today and planned on shooting one 50 rd box of Federal Aluminum 180 grain 40 and 50 rd box of Perfecta 180 grain.

As you can see today was not a success. After four rounds of factory Federal, I felt a soft recoil on the 5th round and didn't see the slide cycle. I looked down and saw this.

I immediately made sure that the barrel was empty (no squibs) and tried to rack the slide. No dice.

I don't know what my next course of action is. At first we thought it was a squib round but I'm positive I hit paper with my first 4 rounds. So my next assumption is an overcharged/cracked aluminum case. I cannot disassemble so I'll be calling Smith for a return label on Tuesday. Should I go ahead and reach out to Federal with the Box Lot # and a picture of one of the successful spent casings too? Or wait for the cause of failure from Smith and Wesson?

Any help or support is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Edit. I just took a bore light and looked down the barrel. No barrel bulge at all, just two cracks starting at the chamber (where I can see the split aluminum casing) that go about a third down the barrel. The cracks line up with the cracks in the casing.

SVT28

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Save all of it,ammo,target and pics,either S&W or the ammo manufactures should/will definitely compensate you. That blown case is probably the deciding factor,as long as they're not reloads.

That shouldn't happen, glad you weren't injured

If this a brand new gun then I'd think there was a barrel manufacturing defect.

Are there 4 empty cases on the ground>no live round in the chamber.

Overpowered factory round you surely would have felt.

If you stick a rod down the barrel does it do to the bolt face?

You don't want to mail it with a round in the chamber.

__________________
NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Thanks, I'm glad I no one was injured too.

I could only find one casing from the first 4 rounds after I fired the 5th shot (the range officers sweep pretty regularly). The casing for round number 5 is still stuck in the chamber due to the tight tolerances and barrel being severely cracked. There is no bullet in the barrel, and no bulge evidence from a squib. The barrel cracks seem to align with the aluminum case cracks. A cleaning rod down the barrel hits the bottom of the empty case.

I've saved the remainder of the box, as well as the one spent casing I was able to find. This ammo is 100% factory Wally World Federal Aluminum bought yesterday.

SVT28

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Barsto barrel is original to these guns?

Barsto is factory. The compensator cannot be removed either.

That is Federal's new packaging, not specific just to WalMart.

Do be sure you don't send anything away without keeping copies of receipts, lot numbers off the ammo, and photos.

Thanks for the recommendations. Unfortunately I don't think I saved the receipts for the ammo, but I will be stopping by Walmart to see if they will reprint my receipt.

Here is a picture of the magazine with the next round. I also tried to take a picture best I could of the barrel from the muzzle end.

SVT28

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Email with pictures to S&W customer service. If you charged the ammo purchase, the credit card company should be able to provide transaction details that should help Wally World track the purchase.

Do save everything. Federal & S&W will probably go back and forth about who's paying. That said, I've seen over pressure events before and never seen a split chamber. I'd want written assurance that you'd be made whole before parting company with the evidence (gun & ammo).

Extremely rapid pressure peak with 180 grain bullets was why the FBI put off adopting the caliber until the 165 gr bullet loads were developed.

My guess is that S&W will say it's the ammo, and will tell you to take your claim to Federal.

As others have said, document and save everything before you send the gun to S&W.

I just looked over the box of ammo and found a warning regarding not shooting this ammo through a compensated/ported gun. For the life of me I've never noticed this warning. Would this have anything to do with the failure?

SVT28

So sorry to see this and I hope it all ends well.

But, I'm getting real nervous about having to contact Smith and Wesson. I doubt they have parts nor the craftsmen to make it right again.

__________________
USS ZELLARS
DD-777

It might. Either way, it likely will give Federal and S&W an out.
Nice gun, sorry to see that this happened.

__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.

Yes, this is what is making me so depressed. Regardless of the cause of failure, I don't think this gun is going to be able to be repaired. The comp is permanantly fixed on the barsto barrel, I don't even know how Smith and Wesson would be able to get it apart. I'm sure Smith and Wesson will say its the ammo, and Federal is going to say we put the warning on the box, and now I have a really expensive 1 of 240 paperweight that I got to shoot 4 and a half times.

Thanks again everyone for the help so far, I guess I need to get my ducks in a row for Tuesday.

SVT28

Did you try taking a rubber mallet to it?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Whats that ring around the case? Would bullet set back cause this?

__________________
^Cat looks like a burrito

In addition to the above good advice, I thank you for taking the hit for all of us because of unavoidable imperfect manufacture (ammo or gun), and am confident that it you will receive "rough justice" of some kind if the Barsto is within warranty. if they do not cough up on warranty, it might be a good one for small claims court. They may pay your claim just to go away.

Send that thing to S&W and you'll never see hide nor hair of the broken parts again. Regardless if they fix it or not, they will not let those parts back into the wild.

__________________
Just Say No - To Social Media

All is not lost...

I doubt very much you will receive any satisfaction from either Federal or S&W. Barsto no longer makes that stuff either.
However...

Assuming there is no damage or deformation to the slide or frame... My advice would be to acquire a chunk of 10mm bore barrel blank then seek out a skilled machinist/gunsmith who can make you a new barrel assembly. There are guys out there that specialize in this kind of stuff... Fabricating parts & assemblies for obsolete firearms.

I'd take a stab at it myself if I had the machinery. Unfortunately I'm still saving up for some big machines, and that only after I finish out the shop.

Best of luck

Cheers
Bill

__________________
Because they don't make a .46

I agree, that if it is sent back to Smith, it most likely won't be returned. Since it is a 3rd Generation design, is it still being supported by Smith?

I think that the reason the slide won't budge is because of the cracked and flared chamber. If part of the chamber can be cut away through the ejection port, I feel that the slide could be moved far enough to remove it from the frame. The comp had to have been attached some how, and it should be able to be removed. While it may take some time, I think that a competent gunsmith could save this pistol. I doubt the frame is damaged, just a cracked and flared chamber.

I don't think that this is a lost cause. Remember, Murphy was an optimist!

__________________
Judge control not gun control!

Arik, I don't want to make an attempt with the rubber mallet to get it apart just yet. The compenstator is in the way of hitting it on the barrel end.

Nacho, I did think that the next bullet in the mag was suspicious looking. I pulled the next few out in order and they also had some pretty heavy crimps/indentations. I'm not too familiar with tolerances and reloading, but does that unfired bullet look weird to you?

One thing is for sure, old steel held up on this one. Other than the barrel crack, it seems unscathed. The compensator did not have and lead chunks or indication of a fragemented bullet. Obviously S&W probably doesn't have the machinery or tooling, nor BarSto to craft a new barrel and fit this compensator on it. At that point they are either going to compensate me or not, pending on the judgement on the failure, and do the credit thing or say take it up with Federal, you aren't getting anything from us. And you aren't getting your gun back.

I'll be calling Barsto, and a local gunsmith named Frank Glenn Tuesday to see their thoughts on repair/replacement of parts. Are there any other recommendations?

SVT28

That round looks weird like its seated too deep. Ive fired that ammo before and don't remember seeing that on the casings in 9mm or 45.
40 cal already a high pressure round, spike in pressure like that can't be good.
The good thing is you're ok though and not injured.
I would contact S&W first and see what course of action is needed

__________________
^Cat looks like a burrito

I'm a bit confused about a couple of things. If the compensator can't be removed, how is the gun disassembled for cleaning and routine maintenance? I tried to find pictures on line, but there is nothing about the gun available.

Also, some people have suggested that S&W will not repair the gun, or offer compensation, but will refuse to return the gun. Can someone point me to the MA or federal law that allows a private company to confiscate a person's property without recourse?

__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.

GaryS, when the slide is removed, as well as the recoil spring, the barrel rotates downward freely in the barrel bushing. From my research, there is no way to remove the compensator without serious tools. It looks like it's potentially pressed or clamped on somehow. Maybe its threaded? I just used small nylon brushes and qtips to clean the barrel hood and inside of slide.

Do you know of anyone who sent a gun with this type of failure and was able to get it back? I'm just trying to better understand my options as well.

SVT28

That's an interesting system.

Since there were so few of these guns made, I can't answer your question. There have been post here, as recently as last week, where someone was told that their 3rd Gen gun couldn't be fixed and was offered a M&P at a discount, or could have the broken gun returned to them.

I just can't see where S&W would tell a customer that their gun couldn't be repaired AND that S&W wouldn't send it back.

__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.

I'd wager real money that compensator is threaded onto the barrel and secured with adhesive along the lines of Rocksett or a high strength threadlocker. Any lesser means would shoot loose in no time.
I suspect they used Loctite 271 on there as coincidentally that's the same adhesive used to secure the Briley bushing in place once screwed into the end of the slide.. You loosen that stuff with a bit of heat. To remove a Briley bushing you heat the end of the slide/bushing up to about 400°f with a heat gun then flip the gold nitrided ring out to 90° and use that as a handle to unscrew the bushing from the slide.

Industrial heat gun only...no torch. I bet that Comp will turn right off with a little heat

Cheers
Bill

__________________
Because they don't make a .46

I don't think of myself as a pessimist but I feel like I must be a realist. I would be nearly jaw-droppingly shocked if anyone at S&W today knows what they are looking at when they see this pistol.

I would believe that there are craftsmen at Bar-Sto that actually could make this a working pistol again.

It looks like the kind of crack you'd get not from an over-pressure event but rather from a flawed barrel that was flawed from day one and just hadn't "let go" until now.

I cannot pretend to share the full effect of the hurt you're feeling right now but I'm horrified over here reading & seeing these pictures.

By the way... I advise not beating on the thing or otherwise attempting to retract the slide. What needs doing here is the fixture the gun on a mill table and use an end mill through the ejection port to precisely cut out as much of the barrel as possible without touching the slide in order for it to release.

Attempting to force the split & expanded chamber to retract into the slide beneath the locking lugs poses too much a risk of further damage IMO.

Cheers
Bill

__________________
Because they don't make a .46

This ^^^^^^^^^^

I understand they don't support the pistol anymore. Got it. But how they can keep something that I paid for and own, just because they feel it is a "legal liability" I don't understand.

__________________
Un-Reconstructed Southerner

SVT,

I really feel bad for you. As a fellow 3rd Gennie guy, this must be extremely frustrating. I can't offer you any constructive advice....I know I'd be mad as all get out. And I mean MAD.

I hope.....I really hope, that someone make this right for you.

4 rounds and then catastrophic failure is unacceptable.

__________________
Un-Reconstructed Southerner

The casings themselves are quite weak and would easily rupture outside of a chamber. My point being that no casing would save a barrel from failing. I've had split necks and casings in rifles without incident other than to throw away the casing.

If any range staff witnessed this, it might help to obtain a statement from them while its fresh in their mind.

Sorry that your first outing with the gun proud nearly disastrous. Glad you were not injured.

The condolences are greatly appreciated. I have been collecting Smith and Wesson autos for quite some time now, and have shot thousands of rounds of ammo through them. I now have over 20 first second and third gen guns and I can count on one hand the malfunctions I've had. I've shot reloads, Brown Bear, aluminum cased, brass cased, hot and underpowered ammo and have never had a catastrophic failure. 1 or 2 failure to ejects, and maybe 2 or 3 failures to feed.

Then I get this pistol to finally satisfy my need for a shooter and a looker, in a caliber that is seeing huge discounts/salad days and with 8 mags, thought this competitive pistol was going to run like a top. The first four shots were pretty much through the same hole on the target. The accuracy was top notch, and I fear I may never get to enjoy this pistol. Money isn't a big deal to me, I can always sell other assets or make more money. What I won't be able to do, is find another one of these...

I'm hoping with enough persistence, patience, and trust, (and probably $$$) I'll find a resolution that gets this gun back on the clock. Sucks I have to stew over this the whole holiday weekend... It would have been a lot tougher day if not for the mint original 12-3 two inch I found in the used gun case and bought before I went out to shoot. This range NEVER has a good used Smith and Wesson in the used case. The range officer and owner did offer to write up a witness statement, and paid for my range time as well as my SO's. The sympathy was strong.

SVT28

I was wondering about that when I first looked at the OP's picture. That just shouldn't happen. I'm not sure why Federal puts that warning on their ammo, but whatever the case, firing a handful of rounds in a "normal" gun should not create a castastrophic failure like that.

I spoke to my father (mechanical engineer) this evening and he also shared the same opinion as some of you. He evaluated the pictures and said that where the barrel is cracked and how it was cracked, that stress or a flaw in the barrel may be the culprit. He said barrel metals will tend to bulge first before cracking/exploding. Since the crack(s) are the widest and start at the beginning of the chamber, he thinks the barrel just gave up the ghost.

Given the low production of these custom barrels, he opined that the production was not consistent and I lucked into one that was going to fail. I inspected the whole gun with a fine tooth gun after I bought it, but he said stress cracks or fractures in the metallurgy sometimes are invisible to the naked eye.

There might still be someone at S&W that would know if your gun. When I called a couple of months ago to get mags for my 945 the person I spoke with said that he remembered those guns & that they took a lot of machining to make & a considerable amount of time. He also looked up the date my gun left after being produced. I shot some of that Federal aluminum 45 out of one of my revolvers it was different sounding & sparks were shooting from the barrel when firing.

Sorry for your HUGE troubles.
There's a lot of "Browning 101" going on here.
The angle of the first pic makes it difficult to see, but does the crack line up with the corner of the hood extension?
If so, I think that tips the scale towards barrel defect.
Interesting to note that the external extractor is not displaced or damaged, so case failure seems less likely.

A good gunsmith/machinist will probably drill out the slide stop lever extension/tab where it fits into the frame cutout. This can be done with no damage to any other part. The slide stop is then free to be pushed out. The whole upper assembly should then come forward right off the frame.

I agree with the idea that the comp is threaded onto an extension of the barrel and chemically fixed in place. Some heat from a propane torch should break the bond, be it thread lock, epoxy, whatever. Just clamp the comp in a padded vise, apply the heat, and at the same time apply some light/moderate counterclockwise torque via the gripframe. Once the heat kicks in, the bond will easily and cleanly release. Unscrew the comp from the barrel with no damage to anything.

If Bar Sto doesn't make this style barrel any longer, there are surely others who do. (See my next post.)

I would definitely add Bar Sto to your list of manufacturers to contact.

Don't send the gun to anyone who won't provide a written statement that the gun, or full compensation, will be returned.
Besides the cost of a new barrel, and a couple hrs of labor cost for a gunsmith, there's no reason to write this off as a loss.

Also, despite my off-the-cuff 'smithing advice, the disassembly advice given should probably only be tried by whomever it has been determined will take responsibility.
I don't know the value of the gun (monetary or sentimental), but it may be easier to let an expert gunsmith just fix it.

By the way, you did a great job of exercising sound judgement in handling the problem!

Best Wishes,
Jim

PS: Did you look through the magazine opening to check the underside of the chamber? Most times a case/ammo defect is involved there will be some evidence of damage or "blow out". My guess is "no", since the magazine itself looks fine.

PPS: "please" don't hit anything with a mallet!

If you're left without a replacement barrel and are facing the prospect of a custom made barrel, I can recommend IGB-Austria.
IGB Austria / Online Shop

They make very high end barrels.
Check out this very exotic job they recently did on a very nice Hämmerli P240:
TargetTalk • View topic - Bulged barrel of my SIG H"ammerli P 240
There's some good links along the way through the thread.

Anyhow, IGB is enthusiastic about taking on custom work for one-off guns.

Best Regards,
Jim

I don't believe it's necessarily a failure of the barrel. I think what happened is that you experienced bullet setback, which created an overpressure situation.

The compensator is a non-issue. What would happen in that situation is that the bullet would be damaged as it passed by the ports, and go flying in some random downrange direction. Alternatively, worst-case, the compensator would tear itself free of the barrel.

If this diagnosis is correct, the manufacturer should be extremely concerned about the situation. Setback in an automatic is caused by insufficient neck tension. When the slide closes and attempts to push the cartridge out of the magazine and into the chamber, it pushes the bullet deeper into the case.

Insufficient neck tension happens for all sorts of reasons. Over-expansion of the case mouth is one, an undersized or mis-shaped bullet is another. Over-crimping is also a possibility, and one that people overlook--too much crimp causes the mouth to pinch the bullet, and the case to bulge out below that.

Bar-Sto is still in business and IMO the fault for this failure is on them. Because that appears to be a failure produced by a hidden flaw in the barrel material. Unfortunately the only way to detect these kinds of flaws is with some rather expensive X-Ray equipment and someone trained in how to use this and read the X-Rays, something that your typical Machine Shop won't have on hand.

Because they are a long standing business and the ones who produced the original barrels it's quite likely they will have the Engineering Drawings for these barrels on file. It's also very likely they have every thing needed to re-produce a new barrel from those drawings. I think that if you contact Bar-Sto and email them pics of your pistol they will probably ask that you send them the pistol. With luck they will put it back in 100% working order for no charge but considering the rarity of this pistol it's worth repairing even if it does cost you some money.

I was leaning towards a barrel failure from the start. If it was an overpressure round, you would have known it.

You never answered if the gun was "new" or "used" but judging that it's an old 3rd gen I'm going to guess it was "used" when you purchased.

So you have two scenarios most likely, the barrel was originally defective and it took this long to fail. Or, the gun was abused with overpressured loads by the previous owner/s before you acquired it, and it just now failed for you.

Either way sucks, especially for a gun produced in such low numbers. Although, that gunsmith you are going to get in touch with should be able to take good care you.

The dents that appear in the top round in the magazine could well be due to escaping gas.

That's an interesting warning on the ammo. I was lectured long ago about always reading the fine print, but this is a first.

If you wanted an authoritative independent opinion on the cause of the failure, HP White Laboratories does that stuff for a living. You could call and get an estimate. I'd expect about $1K minimum, but the one time we used them, we got reimbursed.

".... I'd want written assurance that you'd be made whole before parting company with the evidence (gun & ammo)....."

S&W will not give assurance until they HAVE the gun and have determined where (if any) fault lies. That's like writing a blank check...

__________________
CERAKOTE Svcs.
Class 01 FFL

Sounds like a prudent first step to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho Man View Post
I would contact S&W first and see what course of action is needed

Sounds like a prudent first step to me.
______________________________________________

That might be the prudent way, but it wouldn't be the internet way.

Sorry, listening to Riders in the Sky.

If you're referring to me, what I said was if he sends it in, he'll never see it again. I said nothing about not being compensated.

Here are a couple of guys who never saw their broken guns again:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730244-post179.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730312-post183.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730719-post193.html

__________________
Just Say No - To Social Media

The first two posts linked, don't give any information as to what was offered, what was requested, or the final outcome.

The last one shows that S&W offered several options for replacing a damaged Shield, but not what the owner finally decided to do.

So, again, I'm asking has anyone actually had a case where S&W refused repair, refused compensation, and refused to return the property to the rightful owner?

There is a big difference between saying "We can't fix your gun, but we'll do X." and "We can't fix your gun, we aren't going to offer you any replacement offers, and we aren't going to return your property to you."

S&W couldn't repair my original 442 with Satin Nickle finish when the frame cracked, but they offered me either a 642 or 442 at no charge as a replacement. They even sent me a no lock version since my gun was made before the lock was developed.

Toyota bought my son's Tacoma with rotted frame back from him, but he had to agree to leave it at the dealership right then. They didn't want him driving it and told him if refused to leave the truck and take a rental, he would have to sign a waiver releasing Toyota from any liability if he drove off the lot with the Tacoma. That's about as close as I've ever seen to a "We can't fix it, and you can't have it back." situation.

__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.

GaryS, I don't believe I've ever heard of the mothership taking a defective gun and not returning it or offering compensation. But, how is compensation assessed for a gun like this? If I elect to have them send it back if it can't be fixed, will it come back in pieces sans barrel and potentially the compensator?

Tuesday will be quite the learning experience for sure, the first call will be to S&W. I'll keep everyone posted on the developments, if an unfortunate similar scenario happens to you, maybe my experience can help.

I feel like I might have the most luck with Barsto if S&W can't repair the gun. Some fellow forum members have also reached out privately with gunsmith and repair options. This forum is always so helpful and insightful.

SVT28

Edit: The gun was purchased used, no box or manual. I looked for evidence of high round count and saw none. The barrel hood was not worn polished, the frame rails were not worn either. I have various round counts through various alloy and stainless frame semis and the amount of wear seen on the Comp40 is similar to my 4516-2 which I bought new and maybe have shot 500 rounds through (of Federal Aluminum 230 grain - GASP).

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

That indeed is the problem. If this were a run of the mill (if there is such a thing) 3rd Gen, it would be slightly different. This is a very rare example, which just complicates your problem.

If they send you a return tag and you send it back, it would make sense to include a carefully written letter asking them to inform you of your options, including having the gun sent back evaluated, but not repaired. In which case, if they can't or won't fix the gun, you can follow up on some of the excellent suggestions made by others in this thread.

Again, I feel for your loss. The money is part of it, but so is the loss of enjoyment from future range trips, and the total aggravation from this failure.

I often wonder why these things seem to happen going into long holiday weekends?

__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.

I don't see where anyone said that ever happened.

__________________
Just Say No - To Social Media

SVT28 sorry to read about this happening to you.

I looked for the thread this AM, but cant find it. There is a member here who had a 4 inch full lug PC14. one of 131 made.

He bulged the barrel with a squib. He located a company here in the US that made him an identical replacement barrel for it. They did remarkable work and he provided their name and info. I just cant locate the thread. It was a couple of years ago.

Definitely call Barsto. Hopefully they will help. I would also call Mr Paul Liebenberger at Precision Dynamics. He is the designer of these Performance Center guns. He was helpful to me in the past. He may have some suggestions.

Good luck my friend! I'll keep a good thought for you! I hope you get that work of art up and running! Best regards, 18DAI

__________________
7 +1 Rounds of hope & change