Hello all! At the shooting range the other day, was e retired LE that does not visit often. A friend pulls out his 5906 from its case, and the ret. LE’s eyes opened up three times their size!!! “Where did you find this masterpiece??” he asked my friend. “How did a young fellow like you get to have a 5906?” Both me and my friend with the pistol were dumbfounded. After short explanations, I asked the ret LE, “why the excitement?”
Now this gets interesting.
As I have mentioned in the past, 3rd gem smiths are like unicorns on this side of the Atlantic. This cop, was one of the probably very few that had served with one, and seemed very knowledgeable about them. Eventually, he sold the gun when he retired, because legislation around here did not let the cops keep their pistols after retirement. (Or so it was the case back then. I am unclear about what is going on now) The guy that wanted to buy his 5906, was a plastics fan, and wanted an “iron pistol” as a relic. They met at the buyer’s shop, which had a warehouse next to it, to try the piece and see if it worked. The buyer, had a makeshift backing/ bullet stopper made to stop the slugs, and pointed to the paper target in front. The ex cop did not approve, saying that the bullets would pass through, ruining the merchandise behind. The buyer insisted, pointing at various bullet marks already there, saying, “done this many times with my other 9s, its fine.” 2 magazines later, the pallet with the merchandise behind the target was ruined, and the buyer speechless..
The ex cop told me the 3rd gem smiths had a reputation back in the day of over penetrating. They would poke holes in car iron rims at distances that all other nines would make dents, if that. For him and his generation, it was common knowledge that the tight barrel inner diameter made all the difference between it, and any other pistol. Indeed, right there and then, he showed us something that none of us knew. He took a regular 9mm 124gr. Fiocchi round out of its box, and put it nose first in the muzzle of the 5906. Sure enough, the bullet case lip stuck about 2 millimeters away from the muzzle crown, as if the bullet diameter was wrong for this gun!!! Right away, he turned to a colleague of his, and asked to see that guy’s 4rth gen plastic boom stick. The bullet went in the muzzle, and stopped when the case lip touched the crown. Same with a USP and a CZ!! Huge difference between the S&W and all the others. Again, me dumbfounded along with everyone else, I pulled my old 5904, and tried it. Same thing. The case lip was about 1.5 to 2 mm away from touching the muzzle. Same with a friend’s 5903 TSW!!!! I happened to meet a retired police armorer yesterday at a friend’s birthday party (and guess what we talked about &#128522. After I told him my recent experience, he verified what the other person had said, and added, “this was the reason why S&W only had 4-inch barrels on their service pistols, whereas everyone else had to have 4.5 to 5 inches for their full size 9mm. (!!!!!!!) :-0
So, that is what they said, and though I have no reason not to believe them, it would be nice to have some measurable data. Is there anyone who has a chronograph, and could measure muzzle speeds out of a 59xx S&W and something else 9mm using the same ammo? Because I surely do not have a way of doing this my self. Also, after this, I tried the same trick on the 45s and sure enough, same deal. The bullet does not fit through the muzzle Here however, I do not have other maker's 45s to compare them to. Will need to wait for my friends to bring theirs and see. 😊

I guess anything is possible....but I 'd sure like to see a 9mm "poke holes" in a steel car rim

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Interesting, perhaps that is why I get chronographed velocities from my 3.5 inch 6946 that match the advertised velocities for ammo fired from 4 inch barrels.

sounds like there could be some old "street myth" here.

Retired LEO's are full of myths.
Just teasing.

I dont know what to tell you friend!! I am already looking for an old rim, so I can put those men's words to the test. However, keep in mind, that here in Europe the average family car is a joke on wheels with a motorcycle displacement under the hood. So, the rims are of the same philosophy, in other words, a standard rim from a crown victoria probably contains enough material to make 3 rims of a local nissan or vw. Anyhow, soon we may find out!!! :-)

Seriously, that could also be the case!!! I am looking forward to find out though!!

So, I take it you have a chronograph?? :-)

Shooting a given lot number of a specific 9mm ammo through several 9mm pistols (with same length barrels) over a chronograph could tell you which barrels were sized properly for that given bullet make/version. Better yet, 'slug' the 5906's bore with a pure lead slug at least .359" in diameter and mic the slug to find the pistol's actual groove diameter. Most production 9mm pistol barrel bores are slightly oversized, in the .356-.3575" range. A unique barrel, or a match-grade one will usually be .355" or slightly less (.3545").

I just tried inserting a few Federal 115 JHP rounds nose-first into the muzzle of my S&W 908 9mm pistol. The case mouths on all of them stopped a couple mm from the muzzle end. My barrel has a nearly straight crown, with just a slight concave inward. Many of my other handgun barrel crowns (non S&W) have a distinct beveled-inward crown, which allows the case mouth of a loaded round to easily touch the barrel muzzle when the bullet end is inserted in the barrel.

I'm guessing that you're in a European nation, where FMJ pistol bullets seem to be the norm for civilian law enforcement loads. Maybe there were some LE pistols that had FMJ-bulleted NATO-spec or SMG rounds shot through them, which could explain the 'incredible' penetration performance of the bullets?

you got right both Europe and the FMJ norm friend! The first man in my story, did not mention any special bullets. The second man, I asked him specifically if he was refering to special ammo, and he said, "nop, regular FMJ 115, and 124gr." Also, since you mentioned SMG rounds, the second man (armorer) told me that the hammer fired pistols did great in terms of reliability whenever a batch of such rounds would surface in the market, as opposed to striker fired, that had a hard time denting the harder SMG cartridge primers many a times.(Irrelevant to the previous matter, but just came to my mind). As of the special run barrels that you mention, this my friend, I have no way of knowing it. Could S&W have shipped different spec guns to Europe than the US? I really do not know. However, I have noticed that many times, what is called "Performance Center" there, here it is engraved "Target Champion," and I do not know if that is the case with all of them. :-)

Yep, it's an old Chrony, but it still works great.

The last things I chronographed from my 6946 were Federal's 147gr FMJ load, which averaged 923 fps measured 10 feet from the muzzle; and Federal's 147gr HST +P JHP, which averaged 1020 fps.

As I said my friend, I too was curious to see that!! Here it goes. Pictures, (if they upload) the case mouth versus the muzzle on my about 30 year old 5904. the two dents are at about 13 yards away, (and they are substancial dent, pictures dont do them justice). The hole was made at about 10 yards away! I did not get any closer, due to fear of ricocheting! Ammo was regular FMJ by Fiocchi. (Accuracy was for the birds, as I squinted my eyes hard, expecting the hot numb feeling of the ricochet slug! Thank God, I did not gettit! lol) Yet, the hole on the rim is there!!!! Too bad I didnt have anyone there with another 9mm to shoot the rim too. But I will at some point.

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Is there a chance you may chronogrph a 4 59xx and something other using the same kind of ammo friend? :-)

Hello SOTVEN, I am a retired LEO, and was a firearms instructor and armorer, and I have a chronograph. I have chronographed various ammunition in 4" S&W pistols. I have chronographed a bunch of 9MM ammunition in other pistols with various barrel lengths. Basically, those retired LEOs are saying that S&Ws shoot harder than other pistols because they have a tighter bore ??? Ridiculous. No offense, but they do not know what they are talking about. How far a bullet will go into a muzzle varies with bullet diameter, ogive, bore diameter etc. A 9MM bullet of approx. .355" diameter should not completely enter an in-spec 9MM barrel, which will have a bore diameter of approx. .346". Shooting vehicle rims, or make shift bullet stoppers, introduces so many variables that, again, nothing is proved.

Yes, as jhn indicated, we retired lEOs are full of myths, or something But I have a chronograph, and have kept notes for many years. I have never detected any evidence that S&W 9MM barrels produce higher velocities/shoot harder, than other manufactuers semi-auto barrels of similar length.......

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Probably not. :-(