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Old 09-15-2017, 02:42 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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Default 469 transitional?

Picked up my second 469. Mint condition and a very fair price so it was a no brainer. Here is my confusion. Unlike my first 469, it has the later grips, not the Derlin 2 piece ones I am used to. Also, it has a skeletonized trigger. I can find little reference to a 469 like this except for one posting where the OP calls it a transitional gun to the 6904 (which I also have and love). Any input?
Thanks to all,
fuzzy
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:53 PM
jsbethel jsbethel is offline
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Other than being transitional, there have been instances where S&W replaced a bad 2nd gen frame with a 3rd gen frame and stamped them with the original serial and model numbers.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:53 PM
skjos skjos is offline
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On the frame replacements I have seen the trigger guard is the later style and the slide doesn't quite line up with the frame. The setup is fully functional, it just looks a little off.

For pilot and interim models you can checkout this thread:
My Non RSR Transitional Family is growing! Pics added!!
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:35 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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Thanks guys. Interesting about the later replacement frame. I was not aware some had been stamped with the 2nd gen model. Learn something new everyday. Sorry, I don't recall what style the trigger guard was. Hang in there for pictures, maybe that will help a bit. Currently in gun jail, will bring home in a few weeks.
fuzzy
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:42 PM
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Guys this thread is useless with pictures!
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:10 AM
eahicks eahicks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNZ71 View Post
Guys this thread is useless with pictures!


Actually it would be better with pictures


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:02 AM
hardluk1 hardluk1 is offline
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You could contact S&W CS Let them run your serial number to see if its been back for repair or upgrades .
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:50 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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Please be patient for pictures. Gun is still on pawn hold, I wont see it for 3 more weeks, then there will be pics.
fuzzy
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:31 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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OK, gun is finally home, so here is the pic. I have since read in the SCSW (not sure how I missed it) that there may have been about 200 guns that were 469s with 6904 features. I sent for a letter, so we will see.
fuzzy
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzymcnab View Post
OK, gun is finally home, so here is the pic. I have since read in the SCSW (not sure how I missed it) that there may have been about 200 guns that were 469s with 6904 features. I sent for a letter, so we will see.
fuzzy

Picture looks like a 469 slide with a fixed front sight.......................interesting that it's got a round trigger guard...... didn't all the early guns have the square/hooked trigger guard?

Last edited by BAM-BAM; 10-10-2017 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:50 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
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I can only guess that was a 469 sent back with some problem and returned with a 6904 frame, that frame is -NO- 2nd Gen! Just look at the pin for the magazine catch and also, the safety indicator/divot on the frame and obviously the trigger guard. Interesting pistol and appears to be in mint condition.

Another mystery from S&W!
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:42 PM
jsbethel jsbethel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
I can only guess that was a 469 sent back with some problem and returned with a 6904 frame!
I agree with this since the TAE serial number is within the range of the 2nd gen half-cock recall and shipped prior to February 26, 1986, long before possible transitionals.

It's still a nice pistol regardless.

Last edited by jsbethel; 10-10-2017 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:13 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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Thanks for the reply gents. Funny, just got the letter in the mail today. Does not appear to be anything special. I must admit I am still a bit confused. Gun was shipped june of 1985, but, according to Roy's letter, 469s were shipped into 1989, that would mean that my gun is nowhere close to 6904 production. I guess I don't know as much about the 469 as I thought I did because I was under the impression that they all came with flat 2 piece grips and a seperate backstrap.
The good news is that it is a great example and was a very fair price, so all's well that ends well.
best to y'all, fuzzy
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:10 PM
jsbethel jsbethel is offline
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Quote:
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Gun was shipped june of 1985, but I was under the impression that they all came with flat 2 piece grips and a seperate backstrap.
I'm sure it did originally since that's not a 1985 frame.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:34 PM
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The service that Roy Jinks provides is fantastic but (IMO), not low in cost. We are looking at something that I don't believe is anywhere close to "normal."

If I owned it and I had requested the letter...
I would take many pictures and contact Mr. Jinks about the possibility of an error. The differences between a 469 frame and the pictured frame are not small.

Something is going on with this particular pistol.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:44 PM
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I've never seen that style frame when I was there. I left early 1989. The mag catch spring hole is not in the normal position. Round checkered trigger guard too. Seems odd.
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Old 10-10-2017, 09:53 PM
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The mag catch spring is in precisely the correct position -- for a 3rd Gen frame.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:26 PM
adwjc adwjc is offline
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Fuzzy,

you might find some info here:

Model 469: I have a question that I probably already know the answer to...
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:04 PM
donk52 donk52 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
The mag catch spring is in precisely the correct position -- for a 3rd Gen frame.
I never worked on those. The only three letter prefix guns I built were the 45s.
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:12 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
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Yep, just backing up what you relayed. The magazine catch is clearly different between 2nd and 3rd Gen frames. On the left side, the spring retainer is 90 degrees different in placememt. On the right side the visual difference is far more obvious.

Everything about that frame screams "3rd Gen" but having a 469 model stamp is just really off the wall and very interesting.
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:37 PM
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OMG that is a great looking firearm!
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:27 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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You guys are the best, thanks for all the additional info and the link, which I will go to right after this. I think I will post to Roy's section on the SWCA area, in case he had more info that was not on the letter.
fuzzy
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:38 PM
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The late production rollmark above the trigger, 3 line instead of two, would cause me to lend credence to the replacement frame.

That 469 looks like an early/original top end on a late production 6904 frame. That would be my bet.

An officer I knew at another agency had an original 669 that he shot the snot out of. Unlimited ammo supply and a job at the police range, combined with poor maintenance (oil instead of grease, old recoil springs with hot duty ammo) caused his frame to crack above the slide stop.

The S&W LE rep took the gun and told him he would see what he could do. He came back a few weeks later with the original top end mounted on a 6906 frame. It looked very much like your 469 does. Hope this guess helps! Regards 18DAI
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:02 PM
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18DAI, I totally agree with all that you just said -- which is why the mystery deepens -SO- much with the fact that S&W gave this frame a stamped "469" model number. That part of this whole thing is where I am left stumped.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:30 PM
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Just before I left S&W I was sent to work in outside repair. There were times a gun would come in, in such bad shape a new frame would be stamped with the customers serial no. This might be the case.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:37 PM
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Yeah Sevens, that 469 stamping is puzzling. BUT - back in the mid late 80s and into the early to mid 90s, S&W was trying to sell as many 3rd gen pistols to LE as they could. AND - back then you could get actual gunsmiths to do modifications to your pistol.

You could even order up something special from the Performance Center if you had the money. They did a bunch of customization work to individuals guns back in the early 90s when they first opened the doors. And they also made small bunches of modified standard production guns. I know of two batches of 4566s they did that numbered less than 21 units in the batch.

And then there were all the "one of one" guns that were done by the PC that made there way out the door and into the safes of gunwriters and a few collectors.

So, did an "important customer" or someone in LE who knew someone send in a damaged 469 - and needed the new frame to say 469 for agency recording purposes request that it be done? I can see a few scenarios where it might be needed. And depending on when, there were certainly folks at S&W willing and able to do it.

But could any of this speculation be confirmed, much less documented? Not likely.

But the upside is the OP has a very nice AND unusual 469. What did Grandma always say about buy the gun, not the story? I'd buy that nice gun. Regards 18DAI
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:52 PM
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Awwww, I don't wanna buy it, but I totally dig the "story" and I wish every used gun came with one, no matter how mundane!
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:06 PM
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Picture of a 669 I almost purchased, but determined it was a frame replacement rather than a true transitional model.

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Old 10-12-2017, 08:21 PM
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I really like the looks of the OP's 469! Don't know the price, but I would buy if for the way if looks too! Hope you get it figured out. Everybody loves a mystery.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:01 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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Thanks 18DAI for chiming in, I knew you would have good tidbits to add. SKJOS's 669 pic is also interesting as it has the 669 marking with 3rd gen grips. I think somebody mentioned a frame mod to fit the grips, so I will take them off and look for something changed. BTW, if anyone wants me to post a pic from another angle, let me know and I will.
I paid $475 for the gun with no box and 1 aftermarket mag, and I was happy to get it regardless of it's history. My only other 469 is just shooter quality.
much thanks to all again,
fuzzy
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:20 PM
fuzzymcnab fuzzymcnab is offline
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One quick update... S&W says no repair history on the gun.
fuzzy
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