Hey all. I'm just curious about the felt recoil (yeah I know that is kinda subjective) of both the m&p midsize 45 and also a 1911 commander size pistol as well as their size in the hand. If I ever bought either I would of course try to locate one to try first but I am just curious about your take. I have a 4516-1 that I love shooting on a regular basis but was wondering how do those others compare. Also the 4516 is just a tad large with hogue grips as I can barely adequately reach the trigger on one side and simultaneously fully reach the mag release button and thumb safety on the other with one hand. This doesn't really bother me. I honestly find it as soft shooting as my m&p 9c and a little less harsh than my 9 shield. The m&p 9c with the small backstrap fits my hand perfectly. I know the m&p is supposed to be more robust for handling the 45 cartridge and is a double stack 45 so I don't know if that translates into identical or different size grips as the other m&p types. I also understand the commander is about in the same weight range as the 4516. Any thoughts?
Thanks.

"Felt Recoil" does not exist in my mind. There is the actual free recoil which can be calculated then there is Perceived recoil which is totally subjective

Perceived recoil includes actual recoil but is also dependent on how the firearm fits an individuals hand and how that individual grips the firearm. Plus Perceived recoil depends on how a individual handles/interprets muzzle rise which is dependent on bore axis.

The 1911 will have less actual recoil because of it's increased weight.

If you were local, I would offer you the opportunity to shoot one of my Commander sized 1911s so that you can feel it for yourself. I am a big fan of the 45ACP Commander sized 1911 as a carry firearm
Unfortunately I am not a big fan of striker fired plastic guns and do not own an M&P 45 for you to try. I do carry plastic, striker fired pistols when that is what is required of me, but it is not my preference

One advantage of guns made of metal like your 4516 or a 1911 is that you can change the grips to alter how the firearm fits your hand. While many plastic guns offer interchangeable back-straps, that mostly alters length of pull and not the overall grip of the firearm

There are a number of variables in semi-auto recoil. One of the main ones is the slide speed. This can be adjusted with different weight recoil springs, hammer springs, and on a 1911, the radius at the bottom of the firing pin retainer block.

Also, whether we are shooting light target loads, hardball, self defense loads, etc. and whether the gun is set up to match those loads or not.

I wasn't aware of the springs but I did know about how ammo could effect this. I was just thinking in terms of run of the mill standard fmj 230 grain. Thanks

I feel that 'Felt' or 'Perceived' recoil is less with heavier bullets at a given 'Power Factor'.

That is, at a 180 power factor a 200 gr bullet velocity is 900 fps.,,
a 230 gr bullet velocity is 783 fps. To me, the 230 @ 783 has less Felt recoil. I feel the same about 9mm and use a 147 gr. rather than a 124 or 115.
Plus the 230 gr seemed to take out bowling pins a bit better than the 200. And the 147 gr seem to take down some steel plates a bit better, at least to me.

Now if you are running a 230 gr. @ 900 fps and a 200 @ 900 fps.
I'm willing to bet the 230 will kick more..

Recoil springs and slide mass can also have some effect on the Felt / Perceived recoil.

Interesting comment, but I disagree. I don't have an M&P(no strikers for me either)

I have had many 45acp pistols. One that I have is an FN FNX.. fully loaded with 16 it weighs the same as a 5" 1911.

The recoil is much greater with the 1911 than the FN.. in fact the FN requires a full max charge on the powder charge to get a good case extraction.. at that level it's still soft on the hand all the way to empty while the 1911 is almost painful to shoot. HK's with short recoil system are soft also.

I have found that the "felt recoil" question is extremely hard to nail down definitive answers.

One obvious reason (to me) that I say this is that the same same same handloads from my Glock 29 seem softer and easier in felt recoil than they do in my large, tank-like and heavy S&W 1006. The Glock 29 is smaller, lighter, shorter, plastic framed and seems to offer all the typical evidence of a "harsher" platform for felt recoil, but the opposite shines through.

While a heavier gun has less actual recoil - it's simple high school physics - the felt recoil depends on how that particular weapon fits YOUR hand and shooting style. Nobody can tell that except you. If the grip doesn't fit your hand, it's gonna hurt. If it does fit your hand, you won't even feel it.

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Or something like that . . .

Once as an experiment I loaded 152s, 185s, 200s, 215s, and 230s all to reach a 175 major power factor. With 10 experienced shooters as my guinea hogs, I gave each a mixed magazine of ammo. None could tell any difference.
Each shooter had 5 rounds of 152,185,200,215, and 230 all in the same mag. "Felt Recoil" was identical when loaded to major.

Can't speak for that exact comparison but I have compared my full sized M&P 45 and a full sized (all steel) 1911 in 45 at the range.
To my initial surprise, I found they behaved re-markedly similar even though the M&P is near 10 oz lighter.
So after thinking about it a bit, I attribute the similar "felt" recoil" to the fact that the M&P has a low bore access . IE less muzzle flip as the gun kicks back vs up. This helps compensate for it's lighter weight.

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Dave

I think bore axis has a huge effect and the pliable nature of a polymer frame may also contribute.

I have zero doubt that this is wildly subjective and also find it annoying when anyone equates recoil to "so light, it feels like a .22!" I have a .32 Wadcutter target gun that offers some of the lightest centerfire caliber recoil possible, 90 grain lead wadcutter at 730 fps and recoil is light but NEVER mistaken for any .22 handgun I own, and I think I have more than 10 of 'em.

Thanks you all. You gave me some things to think about. It's not that I really need another pistol and I already have the 4516 for HD, but i've just been thinking about the m&p 45 and the 1911 on-off since last winter.

You may want to try the OEM factory grip with a Hogue slip on grip sleeve on your 4516-1.

I found this to work better at controlling the 4516 than the thicker Hogue rubber replacement grip. Good luck! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I always found that the felt/perceived recoil of the 1911 to be the most noticeable. Not horrible or anything just most noticeable. I've compared this a few times with my 1911, G21, HK USP45 and HK USP45 compact. Both HKs and the G21 feel smoother with faster follow-up shots. It wasn't a huge difference but noticable. My old W. German Sig 220 had slightly more noticeable perceived recoil than the 1911. Can't speak for the M&P

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