|
|
10-17-2017, 01:55 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 588
Likes: 736
Liked 425 Times in 235 Posts
|
|
A recent example of S&W providing warranty support for gen 3 pistol....
This get discussed here a lot, so I figured I'd mention this.
I recently lucked into a great deal on a early gen 3 ('89) 5906, but have had a couple FTE's, that I've been trouble-shooting.
(BTW, it fired flawlessly with numerous brands, including some hollow points, but glitched twice with some American Eagles, and twice yesterday with some WWB. This was during a total of about 320 rounds, so it definitely ain't a jam-o-matic, but still more than I'd like.)
So, getting to the point, the next step, as i understand, is to install a new extractor spring (the extractor, and the rest of the internals are very clean, and appear to be undamaged and very low miles).
So I called S&W CS this morning, expained my situation, and as I expected, they wouldn't send me an extractor, because they supposedly must be fitted, but they did toss the spring in the mail for me, no charge.
(Wait, now that I think about it, maybe I should've just asked for an entire slide assembly !! )
So, as me and others here have experienced, S&W still supports these discontinued pistols, to the degree that they are able to (and this wasn't the first time they've done this for me, on gen 3's).
That is all!
(edit: it runs like a sewing machine with the fresh extractor spring installed !! )
Last edited by Mark IV; 10-22-2017 at 10:49 AM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-17-2017, 03:06 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,858
Likes: 9,476
Liked 14,861 Times in 5,053 Posts
|
|
Well...
I had them do nearly the same thing on a 2nd Gen 745, out of production since 1988. They mailed off an extractor pin for me.
As tiny bits like pins and springs are used widely across countless models, I can't say I am surprised that S&W either had them or were nice enough to ship them gratis. It's a decent move by them to do this, good customer service on a small bit that costs them almost nothing.
Still, it occurs to me that your experience and my similar experience offer no tangible meat to the discussion beyond the simple "hey, it was nice of them." I say this simply because mailing out a spring or a pin isn't a solid example of support for a long out of production pistol that may or may have not had any lifetime warranty.*
*trying to recall exactly WHEN S&W instituted this policy... I believe it was 1988 or 1989. Furthermore, S&W does not honor a warranty on any pistol with a SN they have recorded as sent to any contract/LE organization. So if you happen to have a formerly issued duty pistol, it never carried any warranty outside the service contract that S&W and that organization had in place for that pistol.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-22-2017, 07:04 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
|
|
S&W warranty service
Not on an auto, but I own a 642 that was one of a known batch with finish problems (the clear coat over the stainless finish was peeling, especially on the butt).
I contacted S&W about the problem, explaining I was not the original owner. They sent me a prepaid Fedex label. I sent them the revolver. They refinished the gun in about two weeks and sent it back to me. All at no charge. They didn't even fool with the internals so all the dry firing I had done to smooth up the action was left alone. Kudos to Smith.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-22-2017, 08:02 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 12 Posts
|
|
Just wanted to provide my recent warranty experience. I purchased a 5906 TSW from a local pawn shop. It was in excellent condition, but I failed to notice the extractor had a significant chip taken out of it. I emailed S&W customer service simply asking how I could get the extractor fixed. S&W sent me a prepaid fedex label, the gun was returned repaired free of charge within 3 weeks of the initial email. Great service.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-22-2017, 11:23 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: PALM BEACH FLORIDA
Posts: 1,283
Likes: 15
Liked 749 Times in 422 Posts
|
|
So as long as the parts exist to repair the gun, they will fix it. But if a part is needed that has been out of stock for 6 years, they wont. My 3913 has the original grip. They no longer have the recall grip, so nothing can happen. Fortunately the original grip is fine. GARY
|
10-23-2017, 10:15 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 588
Likes: 736
Liked 425 Times in 235 Posts
|
|
No worries. I cleaned out the (fairly substantial) black,greasy,grit that was in the extractor channel, then installed the new extractor spring, and the pistol runs like a champ again (even in hyper-rapid-fire).
But, there's no way to be sure if just cleaning out all that crud from under the extractor fixed the issue (that was the first suggested step in fixing the problem), or if the new extractor spring did it, but I didn't want to waste a few boxes of ammo finding out, so I waited until the spring arrived.
|
10-23-2017, 12:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,858
Likes: 9,476
Liked 14,861 Times in 5,053 Posts
|
|
Well, if I were going through the labor of removing an extractor in any S&W 1-2-3rd Gen and I could easily order and have on-hand a new extractor spring before doing so, I believe it would be a monumentally -BAD- decision to not put the new replacement spring in there while cleaning out the channel.
It's certainly not horribly awful a job to remove and re-install an extractor on a 1-2-3rd Gen... but to be honest, it's not any fun either. Makes my fingers hurt! It's a rewarding job when it needs to be done and gives the hoped result, but for the cost of a new replacement extractor spring, I think it's just plain silly to NOT replace it if you are going in there.
I believe it would be just as silly to remove a 1-2-3rd Gen extractor for spring replacement and NOT also thoroughly clean every crevice.
|
10-23-2017, 02:10 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Where this month?
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 264
Liked 4,215 Times in 1,714 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
It's certainly not horribly awful a job to remove and re-install an extractor on a 1-2-3rd Gen... but to be honest, it's not any fun either. Makes my fingers hurt!
|
If you use a punch slipped in the hole for the extractor pin to hold the extractor while you drive the pin back in you won't hurt your fingers.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-23-2017, 02:21 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 4,649
Likes: 920
Liked 6,618 Times in 2,200 Posts
|
|
FWIW, one of the ways to help prevent the unwanted introduction and accumulation of fouling under the extractor in the 9/.40's is to avoid introducing excessive amounts of liquids (solvents, CLP's, etc) to the outside of the extractor (side of slide), front (hook) and underneath the slide (on the bottom, in the long machined slot to the right of the center pickup rail).
What runs into the extractor recess can't always "run out" as easily, and may become trapped. (Don't use an excessive amount of sloppily applied liquids is one way to avoid the problem. )
Whenever I used to see some folks "cleaning" their 5903/6906 duty weapons (or any personally-owned weapons) by slathering them in CLP or solvent, I wiped off the slides and explained how excessive liquids could migrate into openings from which they might not run back out.
Occasionally, I'd take one over to the air compressor, and press the nozzle tip up under the bottom of the slide, where the thin machined slot is located (bottom of the extractor recess), and blow air up into the recess behind the extractor.
The surprised looks of some folks, as lots of black liquid and wet goo was blown out around the outside of the extractor (on the right side of the slide) was sometimes priceless. (Care must be taken not to have moisture trapped in the compressor line/tank and blown into the recess, as trapped water can start rust).
There are different extractor springs that were made for the 3rd gen guns, and each caliber (and double/single stack model) might have some "standard", "lighter than standard" & "heavier than standard" springs as options that could be used to get any particular gun running normally.
Older machining methods could result in wider tolerances for the depth of the spring hole, as well as whether the bottom of the hole was flat (for the regular width springs to sit fully flat in the hole). The original set of "repair" extractor springs, using the narrow spring nested within a lighter, standard width spring, could be used in slides where the bottom of the hole might not let a standard tension spring sit flat around the outside edges.
Also, in some of the earliest 59XX guns we were told it might be necessary to increase the tension above the standard tension (MIN/MAX) range using that early "repair" kit, and it was important to make sure the heavier tension was such that it didn't interfere with either extraction (heavy enough) or feeding (not too heavy).
Later on, the "repair kit" of extractor springs for the early 3rd gen's became a pair of standard size, different tension springs, and the thought was that one or the other of them might get any particular extractor within the recommended tension range. Unfortunately, meaning unfortunately for the private owner and hobbyist, the spring tension has to be carefully checked using a somewhat expensive ($150) Wagner Force Dial Gauge, with the right hooked extension (to grasp the extractor hook), checking for the tension to fall within the MIN/MAX range to be reached. Having the slide properly secured in a vise, and knowing how to see/feel & realize when the extractor starts to move (deflection) is something to learn in an armorer class.
Most problems that might be encountered when replacing an extractor spring might be caused by an inattentive or inexperienced armorer, though, meaning not removing the extractor pin in the right manner. (Remove downward & install from bottom, and not wallowing out the pin hole.) Some pins could be pretty stubborn to remove, and the use of a "starter" drift punch to start the pin moving was common, and then using a long 1/16" straight punch to finish removal (without letting the extractor spring pressure damage the pin punch ).
In later years the revised "standard" extractor spring (#10087) worked in most 59XX guns (and was an R4 spring for some older .40's), and became the standard production spring in the TSW 9's/.40's (although optional springs were still available, if an occasional gun might require it).
__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer
Last edited by Fastbolt; 10-23-2017 at 02:24 PM.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-23-2017, 02:59 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 11,366
Likes: 9,384
Liked 17,300 Times in 6,650 Posts
|
|
Am I doing something wrong in not ever having lubricated the extractor? I just don't recall having done it. I also use a light coating of grease on the frame rails and barrel lugs. Other than that, no lubrication, oil or grease.
The guns don't seem to have a problem as I can recall only one failure to eject (not extract) on my 6906. Other than that and a bad Pro Mag in my 457, I don't recall any sort of stoppage on any of my 3rd Gens.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
|
10-23-2017, 03:02 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 4,649
Likes: 920
Liked 6,618 Times in 2,200 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS
Am I doing something wrong in not ever having lubricated the extractor? I just don't recall having done it. I also use a light coating of grease on the frame rails and barrel lugs. Other than that, no lubrication, oil or grease.
The guns don't seem to have a problem as I can recall only one failure to eject (not extract) on my 6906. Other than that and a bad Pro Mag in my 457, I don't recall any sort of stoppage on any of my 3rd Gens.
|
The extractor isn't a "lubrication point".
__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer
|
10-23-2017, 03:13 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,858
Likes: 9,476
Liked 14,861 Times in 5,053 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggbbruce
If you use a punch slipped in the hole for the extractor pin to hold the extractor while you drive the pin back in you won't hurt your fingers.
|
Oh I do that... much of my finger pain is pressing the extractor down (seemingly numerous times!) as I line things up.
On paper, extractor remove/replace is outrageously simple, quick and easy. When you start tapping and working however, it seems to be a little more involved.
|
10-23-2017, 03:54 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 11,366
Likes: 9,384
Liked 17,300 Times in 6,650 Posts
|
|
Thanks. I feel better. Other than my AR 15, which likes to run wet, I try to run a bit on the "dry" side. Mostly for the reasons you point out. Oil and grease attract dust and "Schmutz".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
The extractor isn't a "lubrication point".
|
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
|
10-23-2017, 06:26 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 4,649
Likes: 920
Liked 6,618 Times in 2,200 Posts
|
|
In the older guns, especially, the extractor pin holes could be slightly tapered, being narrower at the top. This was back when the pistol armorer kits included a tapered needle reamer, which was used to lightly clean out any burrs that might be encountered in the hole (if/when replacing an extractor and removing the pin).
We were warned not to get aggressive with the reamers (or use it if not really warranted), to avoid wallowing out the pin holes (there's one on each end of the extractor recess, meaning one above and one below).
We were also told that when removing an original extractor pin, that it might make re-installation easier if we kept the original orientation of the pin in mind when replacing it (remembering the end originally at the top, since it was likely a bit narrower than the bottom end). I sometimes found that to be handy advice when working on the occasional older ('89/'90) gun.
They stopped putting the needle reamers in the kits sometime in the early 2000's, though, and stopped discussing "cleaning out" any burrs. Whether that was due to improved machining of the pin holes, or they realized some armorers may have been needlessly using reamers and wallowing out some extractor pin holes and ruining slides, I have no idea.
I did find that I could insert the previous "top" end of older pins, and tap the pins back far enough up into the slide to catch in the upper hole, using just a plastic mallet (to whack the bottom of the pin until it was flush with the bottom edge of the slide's side), and then using a nicely flat-end Starrett punch to seat the pin the rest of the way.
Also, I've experienced the extractor spring tension pushing outboard against the extractor enough to badly bend a thin 1/16" pin punch, when not using enough thumb pressure to tightly press in on the outside of the extractor while pushing the pin downward with the punch.
I've seen some armorers like to fully contain the extractor in a vise to apply pressure (without using their fingers), but I just use a maple armorer wedge or a nylon block to support the slide when removing and installing extractors and their pins. Yes, it sort of takes using 2 hands as if they were 3 hands, and you have to hold your mouth just right, but it gets easier with time and practice.
__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer
Last edited by Fastbolt; 10-27-2017 at 04:44 PM.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-24-2017, 11:37 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 588
Likes: 736
Liked 425 Times in 235 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
....I've seen some armorers like to fully contain the extractor in a vise to apply pressure (without using their fingers),
|
I was having some difficulty here,as well. But, I recalled that I had a small C-clamp in the garage, so I dug that out and then cut two small pieces off a sheet of engine gasket to protect the slide from the clamp, and used that little C-clamp to compress the extractor (or the spring under it).
It worked like a champ!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|