Hello!

I've been a member for 8 years and only have 3 posts. Mostly I lurk and read, but I got myself into an embarrassing jam today and am looking for help.

I have a 3953 that I wanted to freshen up with a new Wolff spring kit. I often do this with used 3rd gens when I acquire them. Usually this is not a problem and this time seemed no different....until I got everything put back together and....no trigger function. It seems like the trigger bar is not engaging the hammer properly. Since this is the first time I have completely torn down a DAO model, I'm thinking there might be something I don't know that's causing my issue.

This 3953 is one of the older ones with the extended frame and slide. I checked youtube for any related content but I can't find any videos that specifically feature the DAO models.

Sorry for the ****** iphone pics.

Attached Images

	IMG_0994.jpg (65.0 KB, 97 views)
	IMG_0991.jpg (60.5 KB, 92 views)
	IMG_0992.jpg (54.5 KB, 94 views)
	IMG_0993.jpg (48.3 KB, 91 views)

I hope this helps, but it looks like your missing the firing pin retainer spacer. I enclosed 2 pics of my 3953. Also I can't tell if the hammer is on the outside of the drawbar or not.

Attached Images

	20180129_182958.jpg (63.0 KB, 93 views)
	20180129_183145.jpg (62.7 KB, 90 views)

Thanks for the response. I looked at the parts diagrams for the 3953 on Brownell's website and also noticed the Firing Pin Retainer Spacer was missing. Look at the attached photo though, it doesn't look like the channel next to the Firing Pin Safety Lever in the frame of my gun is as wide as the channel on yours? There is enough room for it next to the hammer, but it doesn't have enough room to sit next to the Firing Pin Safety Lever adjacent to the disconnector.

Attached Images

IMG_0997.jpg (66.9 KB, 42 views)

Did you see how you can see my hammer engaging the outside of my drawbar and yours looks like it is inside the drawbar. Also is yours marked capable of firing with out magazine. If it doesnt, the the trigger will only work if the mag is inserted. I have 2 DAO and one will fire without a mag and the other won't.

That was just a bad photo. See below. My hammer hooks are on the outside of the drawbar like yours.

My example also has the standard magazine safety. I tried that.

Do you think I'm missing the Firing Pin Retainer Spacer or did the earlier models not have that?

Attached Images

IMG_0998.jpg (49.3 KB, 41 views)

According to the parts catalog the early models did not have the firing pin retainer spacer. The 3953 (R1) & all 3953 TSW models had it.

.

__________________
Waiting for the break of day

Ok, last silly question. You did put the grip back on? Without tension on the mainspring it wont operate right. Other than that, did you put the right spring on the drawbar plunger? These guns usually fall back together. I really cant see anything else out of place.

I know, It's driving me crazy. I've never had this problem with the DA/SA guns which is why I probably wasn't paying as close attention as I should have when tearing it down. Nice to know I didn't loose the firing pin retainer spacer though. For a while I was questioning my sanity. I'm going to take it back apart and start again.

I did put the grip back on several times. It's frustrating because drawbar, disconnector, sear, hammer and the ejector and firing pin safety lever are all installed and fitting with one another. Like you said, it should "just work".

Bluedot37, Does the early parts diagram show anything between the hammer and the Firing Pin Safety Lever, or is it just space?

I got it working!

I rebuilt the hammer/sear/ disconnector/drawbar interface and got the trigger working correctly. I thought I was in the clear until I tried to re-install the slide assembly, but it wouldn't slide on all the way. It was hanging up on something in the slide.

After several hours of tinkering I figured it out and thought I'd share so anyone else with older DOA autos might benefit.

The Firing Pin Safety Lever was hanging up on the Firing Pin Safety Lever Plunger. Without a Sear Release Lever to keep the FPS lever down it was popping up as the slide went on and hanging up behind the plunger. I had to reach in from the bottom of the mag well with a small punch and depress the plunger while retracting the slide. After it got past this point I was able to retract it all the way and install the Slide Stop. Function is perfect now -----until I take the slide off again.

I'm thinking there must be a part I lost that functions like the Sear Release Lever and holds down the FPS Lever. Anyone with access to a parts diagram for the older DOA's see anything like that?

Attached Images

IMG_0999.jpg (76.5 KB, 22 views)

The four Blubelly2 videos on YouTube can be helpful with disassembly and reassembly of third-gens.

Yes, I've used them for years. Never had this issue with a DA/SA 3rd gen though, only this 3953.

Blubelly2's videos don't deal with the early DOA pistols. He mentions them, but doesn't show any.

I've field stripped this pistol dozens of times and never had any issues getting the slide back on. For this reason I think I must have lost a part.

For anyone with an older 3953 like mine pictured below, how many levers are captured on the hammer pin? 2 or 3?

Attached Images

IMG_0997.jpg (66.9 KB, 21 views)

Some thoughts from previous threads on older DAO's ...

From Post 12 in this thread: Need Help/Advice with reassembly of 5946 /Slide problem(PICTURES)

"There's something called a "Spring Rule" when working with S&W 3rd gen DAO pistols. It has to do with the firing pin safety lever and it's machined slot to the right side of the hammer.

Basically:
Left Side of frame - Ejector lever must always have a spring in the spring hole.

Right Side of frame - If the frame has space for 2 levers, a spring must be used. If the frame has space for only 1 lever, a spring must not be used.

The second lever involved on the right side of the frame in DAO pistols is what's called a DAO spacer lever. In the TDA guns it's a sear release lever. Since the DAO guns don't require decocking, the bottom leg of the sear release lever is "missing", and it only acts as a spacer.

Why?

Because at some point the S&W engineers figured out they wouldn't have to shut down the older production line to change how they cut the DAO frames to only have space for a single lever, but could instead make the same "double lever" cut in the DAO frames and use a modified sear release "spacer" lever to fill the space of the second lever required in the TDA frames."

No, the pictures won't work anymore (photobucket images).

Another thread, where I posted in #11 (Some of the same info, but also brief mention of why it's important to never mix machined v. MIM DAO parts) : Need Help/Advice with reassembly of 5946 /Slide problem(PICTURES)

Another thing to remember with the DAO guns is that unlike the TDA (DA/SA) guns, where the disconnector is installed after the drawbar is installed and connected to the trigger (trigger pin installed) ... in the DAO guns the disconnector must be installed before the drawbar is connected to the trigger. It goes up/in first, before the drawbar goes forward to be hooked in place, connected to the trigger. (In the TDA guns the disconnector is dropped up/into place, and the disconnector's tail is gently wiggled around the drawbar's disconnector tab to finish putting it up/in its installed position.

Also, its important that when replacing the DAO body in the slide (the manual safety/decocker body in the TDA guns), the flat side of the body faces the rear of the slide, and the "horseshoe" notch faces the front. The body plunger and spring fit the same.

Just some thoughts you might wish to consider.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thank you Fastbolt!

My frame is obviously only cut for one lever on the right side. Therefore I should remove the spring I installed, which will prevent the issue I was having with the FPS lever catching on the FPS plunger.

I guess I never noticed that there was no spring on that side when I was stripping the parts out.

It's interesting though, that once I used a punch to get the lever past the FPS plunger, everything actually works....even with the spring installed.

Thank You!

De Nada.

Obviously, there's a reason they teach armorers about the DAO Spring Rule, as it does seem to matter.

Glad things are working again.

__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thanks for the info Fastbolt, I need to remember that. I never had an early DOA, only the 3 lever set up.