Kevin, No offense taken. Thanks for the clarification and I believe we are all here to learn so your educated input is well received. I have always heard the dust shield referred to as a dust cover. So today I learned I have a dust shield for my Model 39.

So in order to make amends for my confusion on dust cover vs dust shield I am posting pictures of my recently acquired Model 39-2 with the Venezuela stamp. Numbers on the slide and frame match and are as follows 02-72/PTJ. I also have the box and paper work and everything appears to be NIB.

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Rich,

There you go, again!

Gosh, that's nice, man.

Congrats!

DC

Cougar,

I'll see that 39-2 and raise it a 469 (sans all that other stuff; paperwork)!



Or is it, "I'll call with one 469"? Yeah, that's it, "I'll call!"

Nah, with an additional 27 seconds of reflection, I'm not so sure that'll work, either.

Oh well.

Later.

DC

Those venezulean contract pistols are rare and certainly more interesting today than a decade ago. Since that country is in massive poltical and humitarian turmoil and not accessible to US citizens it brings a certain "forbidden fruit" aura to them. I would certainly love to own one. Or a 469 for that matter. It's always interesting to watch World history over many decades. What was once easy to access becomes forbidden and visa versa. Look at the guns from the old iron curtain.They sell but for very reasonable prices. I have to assume that Eastern European pistols pre 1989 were more collectable pre 1989 than they are now. I was not buying or collecting back then so I am just presuming and I am sure someone willeither verify my statement or refute it.
Either way those Venzuelan Pistols are very nice.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Fact is yours truly would consider up to and including such barbarous acts as baring one's buttocks whilst upon the courthouse steps - at high noon, of course - if such would lead yours truly to securing that Venezuelan 39-2 (Pics are about four, maybe five posts back) - now possessed by The Cougar - for Ol' DC's own self.

Truth be told, years ago this then-collector of all things Smith & Wesson 9mm, saw within this Forum a "line-up" of a half-dozen-or-so Model 39s neatly arranged in a row with the help of something like a 3/4-inch dowel. Such made for a neat, concise image indeed envied by your faithful correspondent.

Lacking a dowel, this soon-to-be gun photographer found in our household's flooring - first, in a family room's parquet flooring (below) and, much later, in a kitchen rug (below the below)(think about it) - geometric patterns upon which this collector's "massive" gun S&W collections would soon be amassed.





Sometime later, Cougar would admit to seeing the above layouts as at least partial inspiration to do more with respect to his collecting and he has . . . with a key difference.

Cougar has pursued a path one might liken to eating at private dinner clubs whereas Ol' DC is more of the Burger King type (IF WE ONLY could HAVE an In-and-Out!): Cougar gets guns with pedigrees well established; Ol' DC pursues something a little less. Okay, a lot less.

Whereas Cougar maps and eventually finds the crème de la crème of his pursuit, Ol' DC has often preferred McDonald's "milk shakes" that really aren't. You know what I mean?

It's like Cougar's and Ol' DC's recent postings of Venezuelan sidearms festooned with that country's crest. Insofar as this collector is aware, the Venezuelan crest is found on only two S&W models, the 39-2 and the 469.

Cougar's Venezuelan Model 39-2 is replete with clear pedigree whereas Ol' DC took a Venezuelan 469 slide and mated it to a 469 frame only for as long as it took to take pictures of the misbegotten combo.

Someday, Cougar will realize a clear return on his investment while Ol' DC . . . well . . . will realize he's older still.

While Cougar's Venezuelan 39-2 has some Roy Jinks' authenticity to it, Ol' DC has a slide with a Venezuelan crest on it. Mr. Jinks doesn't do "just slides" (if you catch my drift).

Cougar has attended Smith & Wesson Collector Association National Conventions, where he's learned, displayed exhibits and established friendships through which knowledge is gained while Ol' DC, also an SWCA member, has done his business thing each and every SWCA convention weekend since becoming an SWCA member.

Now, if we, the body politic of the United States, elects Sanders or Pocahontas or Eh-See-Oh to the presidency, I'm sure they'll make things right or, shall we say, "equal" by forcing Cougar to stay at home one day for each day he's spent at conventions so I'd have a better chance to catch Cougar - because he, today, is clearly ahead of yours truly in the collecting thing - by bringing Cougar down to my level instead of, well, you know. Right? I mean, thataway it's a lot more easier on Ol' DC?

I'm glad we, as a society, have finally realized that "equal opportunity" isn't the same as "equal outcome" and we, as a society, will finally force the latter instead of just providing the former. Or should that be "former" and "latter?"

Yep, I can hardly wait. In fact, I suspect The Cougar is right now dividing his stash so that he can offer it to me before the weekend is out (Cougar, I won't be able to take that stuff from you until the hurricane passes).

In the meantime this "collector" will continue looking for that Venezuelan-crested slide, for it was mated to a frame for only as long as the photographs (one posted earlier herein this Forum thread) were being taken. Then I'll sell it on some web-based auction site by hooking it up with an ugly frame I don't want, anyway. I mean, I won't really SAY it's a four-figure collector's item. We'll just let everyone think it is.

I mean, that's "equal" and "just," right? Let 'em look at the pretty pictures and, you know, don't tell anyone anything, right? Just let viewers draw conclusions and don't answer any questions. Finders keepers and losers are losers, right?

Right?

Later.

DC,
Quite the commentary and an interesting read. Your pictures are awesome and what a great collection. If only you could include model numbers with the pics. Knowing some of the guns you own, I suspect they are on an equal par with mine. someday we will have to view them in real time. Take care
,

I have re-read all six pages and still gathering tid-bits.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

What a great Thread. Lots to learn and I hope there are more posts to keep this alive. Mike

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Just right

Help me with this one New in factory matching blue box with all the papers; sealed cleaning package, screw driver and extra hammer and stirrup enclosed in the package; white outline rear sight and front inlaid yellow insert; and serial number 86859. That number is in the middle of all the Air Force Officers gifts but not identified as such. I've had at least 10 different Model 39's, but none with all of these extras.

Thank You For Your Time Terry

Could be original but could be someone cleaned it up and customized it a bit with the white outline rear, however, the yellow front insert is likely a faded red/orange front insert.

My son has a 39-2 at least 99% in the box with Millet Target sights. I'll add, exceptional perfectly installed Millet sights which require milling off the front sight that is integral on the slide. Makes it look like a hot target 39 on steroids.

Post a few pix of yours would help immensely.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Were the pre-39s and early mod-39s shipped from the factory with two mags? Had a discussions with a few collectors, and nobody had a definitive answer.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Yes, Mike, both the pre 39s and the 39s had 2 mags included when new. It's all these years later the flat follower mags are so hard to find and so expensive that a seller might figure they'd get an extra $150-200 for the 2nd mag instead of including it with the gun.

Unfortunately, most of my pre-39s, even the few that were in the box with correct papers and manual(s), had only one mag.

The only complete pre-39 that came with 2 mags, the original box, correct green & white manual and many other extras that were included was Bob Freilich's (the Tired Gunsmith) pre 39 when I purchased it a few years back. WHAT A GUY !! Thank you Bob, if you're reading this. Sal Raimondi

PS: some bonus info ... the 52A in .38AMU came with 2 mags which are unique to only that model gun. They appear similar to a Model 52 mag except the follower has a "hook" on the rear end tab. The 52A had no papers, what so ever, except the warranty certificate and perhaps an advertising brochure (e.g. S&W holsters or ammo etc). For the very limited production of the 52A, S&W didn't bother printing a manual nor parts sheet, etc.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

So, the pre 39s came with two flat follower mags, but thru the years one mag may have been held back by some greedy or unscrupulous seller. Or both mags with held and two figure 8 followers substituted for the flat follower mags? If you have any flat follower mags for sale or know of some , please PM me. Im looking at a very nice boxed mid range pre-39 example located in Ohio that needs some flat followers mags.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

The is the thread we spoke about. Post your autos here. Sal

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Yes this is a great M39 read, so to keep it going... I just scored on a 39-2 in 7.65mm(30 Luger). Haven’t heard about this one in the thread yet. It didn’t come with a box, but I think a gun made in US, sent to Germany to get a 7.65 barrel refit, sent to Italy to be sold commercially and then make it back to the states, would be hard pressed to still have its original box, no worries- in this case I am thrilled to have just found the gun for my collection!! Pics when I get it in hand.
Keith

Just discovered this thread... it’s going to keep me busy for a while. My only 39s are this 39-2 and it’s successor, a 639.

Froggie

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Geez Charlie you need to show one of those in a shoulder holster.

No 39''s here but I'm preppeared for one or two.

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Paul
S&WCA #2726

Have any of the 39 lovers noticed the price of Factory mags lately?
Even the later plastic followers have taken a real leap.
Any thoughts?

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Yeah, I just discussed this on another thread with someone, Mike. Since then, it looks like $40 + HIS is about the floor, from what I've been able to find.

I'd really like to get a couple of plain old steel bottom, black follower stainless mags for my 639 Franken-Smith. I paid $45+ HIS for the one I got (to get back to the "original" 2 that were included when new) but I hope I can stumble on one or two more at a bargain price... meanwhile I'll rob a couple from my 39-2 if I need them for an event or something.

Froggie

Ok, I now finally have added a steel M39 to the collection!! Mint but no box, so Sal..anyone... look around and see if you have my box, I will buy it from you, cool serial number also: 62226 (pics when I get it and I’ll include the 7.65 m39 I just got also)
Happy m39 camper here!!!
Keith

Mr. Keith, you have been a busy collector. Steel and a .30 cal. all in one
week. I do not have any steel labeled boxes, unless there is a steel,
matching gun in it. That .30 cal. is a real treasure. Great snag. Mike

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I was seduced by the 39-2 allure and picked up a couple this month.

This thread is going to end up costing me money!

Froggie

Keith,

how is SN 62291 STEEL box with papers & tools? appx 85-90% condition. no cuts tears or stains.

Best Regards, Sal Raimondi, Sr.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

I was pretty sure I had posted my article on the Model 39s - so I dug it up. It's more of an overview, and not much room to go into the tons of details that others more knowledgeable than I have at their fingertips, but it may throw some perspective on these remarkable pistols.

Here's the link to the posting I made some time ago -

John

The S&W Model 39 - book excerpt...

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Uh huh[ATTACH]Attachment 464471[/ATTACH]Here they are.. steel, 30 Luger and the lnib nickel 39-2 I just got!

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I have wondered if the factory sent blank barrels to Germany or if an independent barrel manufacturer was contracted.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

According to catalog #4, “the M39’s were sent to Germany without barrels”. Don’t know that answers the question though.
Keith

Hello Keith, kind of! No, not at all. It seems if the factory sent blanks,
there are manufactures that could bore, and chamber them. Those German gun manufacturers have kind of a talent in that field.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I'm wondering whether there is a stash of replacement 7.62 barrels in some German warehouse. IIRC, you should be able to simply field strip the 9mm Mod 39-2 and replace the barrel. Everything else would still work (except maybe the recoil spring?)

I've never shot any gun in 30 Luger and don't plan to start at my age, but it would be an interesting "convertible."

Froggie

There is a good chance there is one in the US. A long-time owner of a LGS told me recently that the factory sold off unused spare parts by weight a few years ago. As he put it, "by the ton", and a few people took the best advantage of it that they could. Some of them never sorted through all the parts, just took out what they wanted, and the rest are probably sitting on pallets in a warehouse somewhere.

I have also noticed that when buying a few. They ain't gonna get cheaper either IMHO.

As a young lad, I was fortunate to visit the old warehouse of Inter-Arms,
in Alexandria, VA. owned by Sam Cummings. The pistol room was full of
everything. I remember he picked up a C-93 Borchardt.
So somewhere there is a stash of parts and pistols.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Well, I've intruded into several other threads with discussion of this project, so here's the summary.

Once I got my inherited 39-2 set up the way I wanted, I decided it was too nice to allow it to be abused, and with the aluminum receiver would be too easily damaged. My solution was to get a Gen 2 or 3 gun in 5XX or 6XX. I had an orphan 439 slide assembly in hand and decided I wanted to build a retro looking two tone, so I found a beater 639 and put the 439 slide on it. My old eyes are having a hard time with the little non-adjustable sight, but red fingernail polish on the front blade helped some. I tried to fit a 910 slide with better sights, but they are incompatible.

Anyway, now it's ready for its next trip out to the range and should be a good EDC so long as I'm wearing sufficiently bulky clothing to conceal it. I'm still working on accuracy, but I don't know whether that's a problem with me or with the gun... it is completely reliable though. It's been an interesting project and completely out of my field of experience, so several people on this forum have been very generous with help and advice. Thank you each and all!

Green Frog

PS The mag with the X is not bad... I just wanted to distinguish which one was added from the one that came with the pistol.

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Hey Froggie, looks like a nice clean project. Good shooting.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I usually find no markings inside a 39 slide that relate it to the frames serial number, what ensures that a given slide is original to the frame?

Mr. NDFRC, true not numbered to frame. You have to kind of work off of characteristics and configuration of the the slide. Markings are a good hint as is the type of extractor. I guess there is no definitive way to prove that slide was fitted to that frame when it left the factory.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Thanks for the response..
I found a model 39, no dash with a serial number that starts with ‘A’
I didn’t think there are no dash 39s in the Axxxxxx serial numbers? But here’s one..
Thanks

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That one was one of two (A120192) that shipped to Oshman's in Houston on 2/19/1970. It is correct. There are also a few Model 39-2 pistols without the alpha prefix.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

This is sort of a Model 52/39 post. About a year ago a friend of mine was about two steps ahead of me at the local gun show. He stumbled into an extremely good deal. A gentleman was selling a Model 52 S&W with several magazines and a spare set of grips for $1100.00. My friend bought it. Then the gentleman said I will sell this spare upper in 9 MM with a couple of magazines that fit that frame for $200.00 more. That was a no brainer. Along with the whole set up came some paperwork. It seems the Model 52 was used by the Illinois State Police Pistol Team. Their armorer bought M39 uppers directly from S&W and fitted them to the Model 52 frames. The 39's do not shoot as well as the 52's, but still do pretty good. Wish I had been in the lead that day.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

That must have been one busy day on the 39 assembly line.
The final inspector was moving those guns to shipping. Get the invoices out in the mail and get paid. This was a titbit I was unaware of. Thanks Kevin.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

That must have been one busy day on the 39 assembly line.
The final inspector was moving those guns to shipping. Get the invoices out in the mail and get paid. This was a titbit I was unaware of. Thanks Kevin.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

Thanks, does that mean A120192 would be technically the last known m39 no dash made?

No. As is often the case with S&W (and Colt, and others) there is not a clean break between old and new models on the numbers or the ship dates. There are higher numbers with Model 39 features and lower numbers with Model 39-2 features. There are also a few guns with "Model 39" roll marked and the "-2" added with a hand stamp through the finish. Even if one had access to the factory shipping records I think it would be hard to determine what "last" and "first" really means since features, numbers and ship dates all overlap.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

This is the earliest SN I have..

Beautiful pre-39. can not make out Sn.? Is the left grip panel correct?

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

bigl1911,
You have one of the 20 known Class 'A' engraved pre-39's. There may be more but it's hard to know for sure with the records that S&W kept. I have traced the current owner of 9 of them (I have s/n 2152) however R. McMillan's s/n 1738 just sold recently at auction. Not sure who the new owner is. I have factory invoices for the 20 I mentioned but unfortunately, they don't include the serial numbers. Great gun to have

Originally Posted by kwill1911 View Post
That one was one of two (A120192) that shipped to Oshman's in Houston on 2/19/1970. It is correct. There are also a few Model 39-2 pistols without the alpha prefix.

Kevin, knowing your expertise on these guns I'm sure it was just a typo but I believe the 2 consecutive serial numbered 39-2 pistols sent to Oshmans in Houston on 2/19/1970 are s/n A120182 & A120183.